AMD Zen 2 Microarchitecture Analysis: Ryzen 3000 and EPYC Rome
by Dr. Ian Cutress on June 10, 2019 7:22 PM EST- Posted in
- CPUs
- AMD
- Ryzen
- EPYC
- Infinity Fabric
- PCIe 4.0
- Zen 2
- Rome
- Ryzen 3000
- Ryzen 3rd Gen
Fetch/Prefetch
Starting with the front end of the processor, the prefetchers.
AMD’s primary advertised improvement here is the use of a TAGE predictor, although it is only used for non-L1 fetches. This might not sound too impressive: AMD is still using a hashed perceptron prefetch engine for L1 fetches, which is going to be as many fetches as possible, but the TAGE L2 branch predictor uses additional tagging to enable longer branch histories for better prediction pathways. This becomes more important for the L2 prefetches and beyond, with the hashed perceptron preferred for short prefetches in the L1 based on power.
In the front end we also get larger BTBs, to help keep track of instruction branches and cache requests. The L1 BTB has doubled in size from 256 entry to 512 entry, and the L2 is almost doubled to 7K from 4K. The L0 BTB stays at 16 entries, but the Indirect target array goes up to 1K entries. Overall, these changes according to AMD affords a 30% lower mispredict rate, saving power.
One other major change is the L1 instruction cache. We noted that it is smaller for Zen 2: only 32 KB rather than 64 KB, however the associativity has doubled, from 4-way to 8-way. Given the way a cache works, these two effects ultimately don’t cancel each other out, however the 32 KB L1-I cache should be more power efficient, and experience higher utilization. The L1-I cache hasn’t just decreased in isolation – one of the benefits of reducing the size of the I-cache is that it has allowed AMD to double the size of the micro-op cache. These two structures are next to each other inside the core, and so even at 7nm we have an instance of space limitations causing a trade-off between structures within a core. AMD stated that this configuration, the smaller L1 with the larger micro-op cache, ended up being better in more of the scenarios it tested.
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Teutorix - Tuesday, June 11, 2019 - link
If TDPs are accurate they should reflect power consumption.If a chip needs 95W cooling it's using 95W of power. The heat doesn't come out of nowhere.
zmatt - Tuesday, June 11, 2019 - link
I think technically it would be drawing a more than its TDP. The heat generated by electronics is waste due to the inefficiency of semi conductors. If you had a perfect conductor with zero resistance in a perfect world then it shouldn't make any heat. However the TDP cannot exceed power draw as that's where the heat comes from. How much TDP differs from power draw would depend on a lot of things such as what material the semiconductor is made or, silicon, germanium etc. And I'm sure design also factors in a great deal.If you read Gamers Nexus, they occasionally measure real power draw on systems, https://www.gamersnexus.net/hwreviews/3066-intel-i...
And you can see that draw massively exceeds TDP in some cases, especially at the high end. This makes sense, if semiconductors were only 10% efficient then they wouldn't perform nearly as well as they do.
Teutorix - Tuesday, June 11, 2019 - link
"I think technically it would be drawing a more than its TDP"Yeah, but if a chip is drawing more power than its TDP it is also producing more heat than its TDP. Making the TDP basically a lie.
"The heat generated by electronics is waste due to the inefficiency of semi conductors. If you had a perfect conductor with zero resistance in a perfect world then it shouldn't make any heat"
Essentially yes, there is a lower limit on power consumption but its many orders of magnitude below where we are today.
"How much TDP differs from power draw would depend on a lot of things such as what material the semiconductor is made or, silicon, germanium etc. And I'm sure design also factors in a great deal."
No. TDP = the "intended" thermal output of the device. The themal output is directly equal to the power input. There's nothing that will ever change that. If your chip is drawing 200W, its outputting 200W of heat, end of story.
Intel defines TDP at base clocks, but nobody expects a CPU to sit at base clocks even in extended workloads. So when you have a 9900k for example its TDP is 95W, but only when its at 3.6GHz. If you get up to its all core boost of 4.7 its suddenly draining 200W sustained assuming you have enough cooling.
Speaking of cooling. If you buy a 9900k with a 95W TDP you'd be forgiven for thinking that a hyper 212 with a max capacity of 180W would be more than capable of handling this chip. NOPE. Say goodbye to that 4.7GHz all core boost.
"If you read Gamers Nexus, they occasionally measure real power draw on systems, https://www.gamersnexus.net/hwreviews/3066-intel-i...
And you can see that draw massively exceeds TDP in some cases, especially at the high end. This makes sense, if semiconductors were only 10% efficient then they wouldn't perform nearly as well as they do."
None of that makes any difference. TDP is supposed to represent the cooling capacity needed for the chip. If a "95W" chip can't be sufficiently cooled by a 150W cooler there's a problem.
Both Intel and AMD need to start quoting TDPs that match the boost frequencies they use to market the chips.
Cooe - Tuesday, June 11, 2019 - link
... AMD DOES include boost in their TDP calculations (unlike Intel), and always have. They make their methodology for this calculation freely available & explicit.Spoelie - Wednesday, June 12, 2019 - link
Look at these power tables for 2700Xhttps://www.anandtech.com/show/12625/amd-second-ge...
=>You are only hitting 'TDP' figures at close to full loading, so "frequency max" is not limited by TDP but by the silicon.
=>Slightly lowering frequency *and voltage* really adds up the power savings over many cores. The load table of the 3700 will look on the whole different than for the 3600X. The 3700 will probably lose out in some medium threaded scenarios (not lightly and not heavily threaded)
Gastec - Wednesday, June 12, 2019 - link
That's not actually the real power consumption. Most likely you will get a 3700X with 70-75 W (according to the software app indications) but a bit more if tested with a multimeter. Add to that the inefficiency of the PSU, say 85-90%, and you have about 85 W of real power consumption. Somewhat better than my current 110W i7-860 or the 150+W Intel 9000 series ones I would say :)xrror - Monday, June 10, 2019 - link
funny you say that. AMD TDP and Intel TDP differ. I think.HEY IAN, does AMD still measure TDP as "real" (total) dissipation power or Intel's weaksauce "Typical" dissipation power?
Teutorix - Tuesday, June 11, 2019 - link
Intel rate TDP at base clocks. AMD do something a little more complex.Neither of them reflect real world power consumption for sustained workloads.
FreckledTrout - Tuesday, June 11, 2019 - link
In desktops they are simply starting points for the cooling solution needed. They do a lot better in the laptop/tablet space where TDP's make or break designs.Cooe - Tuesday, June 11, 2019 - link
Yes they do. A 2700X pulls almost exactly 105W under the kind of conditions you describe. Just because Intel's values are completely nonsense doesn't mean they all are.