What Products Use Intel 10nm? SuperFin and 10++ Demystified
by Dr. Ian Cutress on September 25, 2020 9:00 AM ESTThe AnandTech Decoder Ring for Intel 10nm
The reason why I’m writing about this topic is because it is all a bit of a mess. Intel is a company so large, with many different business units each with its own engineers and internal marketing personnel/product managers, that a single change made by the HQ team takes time to filter down to the other PR teams, but also filter back through the engineers, some of which make press-facing appearances. That’s before any discussions as to whether the change is seen as positive or negative by those affected.
I reached out to Intel to get their official decoder ring for the 10++ to new SuperFin naming. The official response I received was in itself confusing, and the marketing person I speak to wasn’t decoding from the first 2018 naming change, but from the original pre-2017 naming scheme. Between my contacts and I we spoke over the phone so I could hear what they wanted to tell me and so I could tell them what I felt were the reasons for the changes. Some of the explanations I made (such as Intel not wanting to acknowledge Ice Lake 10nm is different to Cannon Lake 10nm, or that Ice Lake 10nm is called that way to hide the fact that Cannon Lake 10nm didn’t work) were understandably left with a no comment.
However, I now have an official decoder ring for you, to act as a reference for both users and Intel’s own engineers alike.
| AnandTech's Decoder Ring for Intel's 10nm | ||||
| Product | 2020+ | First Update |
Original |
|
| Cannon Lake | - | - | 10nm | |
| Ice Lake Ice Lake-SP Lakefield (compute) Snow Ridge Elkhart Lake |
10nm | 10nm | 10+ | |
| Tiger Lake SG1 DG1 |
10nm Superfin |
10+ | 10++ | |
| Alder Lake First Xe-HP GPU Sapphire Rapids |
10nm Enhanced SuperFin |
10++ | 10+++ | |
For clarity, 10nm Superfin is often abbreviated to 10SF, and 10nm Enhanced Superfin to 10ESF.
Moving forward, Intel’s communications team is committed to explaining everything in terms of 10nm, 10SF, and 10ESF. I have been told that the process of moving all internal documents away from the pre-2017 naming to the 2020 naming is already underway.
We reached out for Intel for a comment for this article:
It is widely acknowledged within the industry that there is inconsistency and confusion in [our] nanometer nomenclature. Going forward, we will refer the next generation 10nm products as 10nm SuperFin technology-based products.
My take is that whoever had the bright idea to knock Ice Lake down from 10+ to 10 (and then Tiger from 10++ to 10+ etc.), in order to protect the company from addressing issues with the Cannon Lake product, drastically failed at predicting the fallout that this name change would bring. Sometimes a company should accept they didn't score as well as they did, admit the hit, and move on, rather than try and cover it up. So much more time and effort has been lost in terms of communications between the press and Intel, or the press and engineers, or even between the engineers and Intel's own communications team. Even the basic understanding of dealing with that change has been difficult, to the detriment of the press trying to report on Intel’s technology, and likely even on the financial side as investors try to understand what’s going on.
But, truth be told, I’m glad that Intel moved away from the ++++ nomenclature. It allows the company to now easily name future manufacturing node technologies that aren’t just for pure logic performance, which may be vital if Intel ever wants to become a foundry player again.
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Spunjji - Monday, September 28, 2020 - link
Holy crap, is AMDSuperFan TheJian's sockpuppet? They both make almost exactly as little sense as each other, and I can't imagine why anyone else would bother replying seriously 😂TheJian - Tuesday, September 29, 2020 - link
So you just don't understand stocks or how to run a business...No comments on my data then..OK. Thanks for confirming my point, since you clearly can't debate it.As for commenting on his post. He likes to play consoles. So what does that do for AMD income? You two both don't get it.
https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/AMD/amd/...
https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/AMD/amd/...
16 years of data, pull those up and have a stock chart of the last decade up on another monitor and you should get the point...If you don't get what I said, you're not too bright. It was simple talk. Easy math. Learn to debate:
https://islamreigns.files.wordpress.com/2019/01/pa...
It's comic where the link leads...But some can't use svg's which are everywhere else it seems. They're talking about YOU being at the bottom. Name calling. L1. Nice work. I'd block you, but anandtech is not smart enough to allow a checkbox for it ;)
Teckk - Sunday, September 27, 2020 - link
So you're not a console fan companies are supposed to stop making them? Ok.You're a proud Intel shareholder hmmm how much has the stock grown in the last 8 years?
If you're buying Intel stocks just because you support or like Intel, I hope you don't give or no one follows your stock advice.
Qasar - Sunday, September 27, 2020 - link
na, that's just the Jian's usual pro intel, rant.TheJian - Wednesday, September 30, 2020 - link
What is pro Intel about telling AMD to start making money by raising prices? I spent most of the post explaining why they should stop making crap that has no profits and move to stuff that will make them rich. What part of that do you not get? I am practically begging them to make money so they and have more R&D, win, etc. The fact that I own Intel is just simple math. You are DUMB if you own AMD at this price, or just simply haven't even done some quick math.https://islamreigns.files.wordpress.com/2019/01/pa...
Learn to debate. You said nothing and worse, failed to understand the content of my post. Comic where that jpg is...SVG's of it are everywhere, but jpg a little tougher to find. You failed.
TheJian - Wednesday, September 30, 2020 - link
AMD isn't making enough on them, that is the point. If short on silicon make the highest margin stuff right? It's that simple. Ask Intel.Don't care what they made in 8yrs. I've only owned then since the drop to 43 while still making the same income as a few weeks before at 70. I don't like ANY company; I like the money they make me though. Does that count? I BUY hardware from the winner, period, for what I need done most. I have all 3 in my PC's (Intel, AMD, and Nvidia...ROFL). I was an AMD reseller for 8yrs. I like the company, just hate the management. Lisa Su made 59mil last year, most of any CEO in S&P500 on earth. Her company made 660m, less than all others on the top ten list who make BILLIONS of NET INCOME. Intel made 23.6B NET INCOME, but last year Intel CEO made 66mil (on 23.6B!).
My points are about money here, which you don't seem to have a concept of, so I don't expect you to get the message. Move along. I've never been proud to own a stock (name means nothing). They're just things to make profit on. I didn't own Intel since $26 or so ages ago (~2006-2007, sold never came back until now). That said, if you're talking last 8yrs. Ok.
Sept 2012 $22, today, $50. Not bad money, but if you sold recently you could have had $70. Very good money now for most. But with a price of ~45, I like my chances of $100 by Q1 2022 or before. I'll leave early of course. I was explaining why to buy or not buy stuff you just weren't listening. I gave links to 16 years of data. You can't read? It had nothing to do with being a FAN of company X, it was all about WHY AMD isn't (or IS in NV/Intel cases) making money that they should be based on the price of the stock, share of the market etc. This is stock advice. I don't see you debating any of it either. I see you making a fool of yourself.
But yeah, not a fan of what consoles are doing to AMD's NET INCOME and R&D, they should have passed like NV for the same reason as NV (robs from core R&D and no margin). Any silicon spent on a single digit to mid teens margin product (AMD said it) is WASTED and should be spent on higher end stuff for NET INCOME and REAL margins! See what Intel did. Short on silicon, they moved production to servers and HEDT. Screw celeron/poor people, not the rich. Without the rich to pay the bills you can't afford to support the poor ;) See 1/2 the country that doesn't pay a dime in taxes (is that a fair share?? LOL). I buy stocks so I don't have to care who makes my chip or what price it is, because it is FREE to me via the stock income. NV/AMD bought all my chips for years to come, though Intel will be buying next years probably (or MU as DDR5 etc kicks off and buy cycle with it, many others just do the homework)...ROFL
Teckk - Wednesday, September 30, 2020 - link
If you'r as objective as you claim to be, why do you care about the management of AMD? Why does it matter what the CEO's pay is to you?You buy hardware from a winner? Why not buy the best performant hardware that you need? Again, why does it matter what brand it is then?
You're telling AMD might hit $30 soon or 100? Or is $100 the target for Intel in 2022?
Console margins are 15+% from 2015 onwards. You seem to be pretty good with the links, surprised you missed this one. Definitely not the same as Ryzen, but you don't abandon a market overnight. And if you're the ONLY player you can charge more for it. Zen2 in PS5 and Xbox will not be sold at cost or at a minimal margin too, I'm sure you know.
Intel still makes Celereons and dual core stuff and Wi-Fi cards and more, maybe you should tell them to move that onto higher margin stuff like server processors.
Everett F Sargent - Sunday, September 27, 2020 - link
That was much worse than the Unabomber's manifesto! You need to move out of that yurt way up there in Mongolia.Spunjji - Monday, September 28, 2020 - link
I love the idea that Nvidia isn't in consoles because they said "ROFL. Whatever dude", even though, you know, Nvidia is in the Switch - that most premium of consoles... and they tried selling their own console (the Shield) several times over... and the only reason they aren't doing business with Sony since the PS3 is because AMD could offer the full CPU/GPU package... and the only reason they aren't in the Xbox is because they tried to rip Microsoft off back with the OG Xbox.But sure, it's because they're too cool for consoles (that they're still involved with). Seems legit. 😏
Beaver M. - Tuesday, September 29, 2020 - link
What do you mean *tried* to sell their own console?The Shield is very successful.