The Snapdragon 865 Performance Preview: Setting the Stage for Flagship Android 2020
by Andrei Frumusanu on December 16, 2019 7:30 AM EST- Posted in
- Mobile
- Qualcomm
- Smartphones
- 5G
- Cortex A77
- Snapdragon 865
GPU Performance & Power
On the GPU side of things, testing the QRD865 is a bit complicated as we simply didn’t have enough time to run the device through our usual test methodology where we stress both peak as well as sustained performance of the chip. Thus, the results we’re able to present today solely address the peak performance characteristics of the new Adreno 650 GPU.
Disclaimer On Power: As with the CPU results, the GPU power measurements on the QRD865 are not as high confidence as on a commercial device, and the preliminary power and efficiency figures posted below might differ in final devices.
The 3DMark Physics tests is a CPU-bound benchmark within a GPU power constrained scenario. The QRD865 here oddly enough doesn’t showcase major improvements compared to its predecessor, in some cases actually being slightly slower than the Pixel 4 XL and also falling behind the Kirin 990 powered Mate 30 Pro even though the new Snapdragon has a microarchitectural advantage. It seems the A77 does very little in terms of improving the bottlenecks of this test.
In the 3DMark Graphics test, the QRD865 results are more in line with what we expect of the GPU. Depending on which S855 you compare to, we’re seeing 15-22% improvements in the peak performance.
In the GFXBench Aztec High benchmark, the improvement over the Snapdragon 855 is roughly 26%. There’s one apparent issue here when looking at the chart rankings; although there’s an improvement in the peak performance, the end result is that the QRD865 still isn’t able to reach the sustained performance of Apple’s latest A13 phones.
| GFXBench Aztec High Offscreen Power Efficiency (System Active Power) |
||||
| Mfc. Process | FPS | Avg. Power (W) |
Perf/W Efficiency |
|
| iPhone 11 Pro (A13) Warm | N7P | 26.14 | 3.83 | 6.82 fps/W |
| iPhone 11 Pro (A13) Cold / Peak | N7P | 34.00 | 6.21 | 5.47 fps/W |
| iPhone XS (A12) Warm | N7 | 19.32 | 3.81 | 5.07 fps/W |
| iPhone XS (A12) Cold / Peak | N7 | 26.59 | 5.56 | 4.78 fps/W |
| QRD865 (Snapdragon 865) | N7P | 20.38 | 4.58 | 4.44 fps/W |
| Mate 30 Pro (Kirin 990 4G) | N7 | 16.50 | 3.96 | 4.16 fps/W |
| Galaxy 10+ (Snapdragon 855) | N7 | 16.17 | 4.69 | 3.44 fps/W |
| Galaxy 10+ (Exynos 9820) | 8LPP | 15.59 | 4.80 | 3.24 fps/W |
Looking at the estimated power draw of the phone, it indeed does look like Qualcomm has been able to sustain the same power levels as the S855, but the improvements in performance and efficiency here aren’t enough to catch up to either the A12 or A13, with Apple being both ahead in terms of performance, power and efficiency.
| GFXBench Aztec Normal Offscreen Power Efficiency (System Active Power) |
||||
| Mfc. Process | FPS | Avg. Power (W) |
Perf/W Efficiency |
|
| iPhone 11 Pro (A13) Warm | N7P | 73.27 | 4.07 | 18.00 fps/W |
| iPhone 11 Pro (A13) Cold / Peak | N7P | 91.62 | 6.08 | 15.06 fps/W |
| iPhone XS (A12) Warm | N7 | 55.70 | 3.88 | 14.35 fps/W |
| iPhone XS (A12) Cold / Peak | N7 | 76.00 | 5.59 | 13.59 fps/W |
| QRD865 (Snapdragon 865) | N7P | 53.65 | 4.65 | 11.53 fps/W |
| Mate 30 Pro (Kirin 990 4G) | N7 | 41.68 | 4.01 | 10.39 fps/W |
| Galaxy 10+ (Snapdragon 855) | N7 | 40.63 | 4.14 | 9.81 fps/W |
| Galaxy 10+ (Exynos 9820) | 8LPP | 40.18 | 4.62 | 8.69 fps/W |
We’re seeing a similar scenario in the Normal variant of the Aztec test. Although the performance improvements here do match the promised figures, it’s not enough to catch up to Apple’s two latest SoC generations.
| GFXBench Manhattan 3.1 Offscreen Power Efficiency (System Active Power) |
||||
| Mfc. Process | FPS | Avg. Power (W) |
Perf/W Efficiency |
|
| iPhone 11 Pro (A13) Warm | N7P | 100.58 | 4.21 | 23.89 fps/W |
| iPhone 11 Pro (A13) Cold / Peak | N7P | 123.54 | 6.04 | 20.45 fps/W |
| iPhone XS (A12) Warm | N7 | 76.51 | 3.79 | 20.18 fps/W |
| iPhone XS (A12) Cold / Peak | N7 | 103.83 | 5.98 | 17.36 fps/W |
| QRD865 (Snapdragon 865) | N7P | 89.38 | 5.17 | 17.28 fps/W |
| Mate 30 Pro (Kirin 990 4G) | N7 | 75.69 | 5.04 | 15.01 fps/W |
| Galaxy 10+ (Snapdragon 855) | N7 | 70.67 | 4.88 | 14.46 fps/W |
| Galaxy 10+ (Exynos 9820) | 8LPP | 68.87 | 5.10 | 13.48 fps/W |
| Galaxy S9+ (Snapdragon 845) | 10LPP | 61.16 | 5.01 | 11.99 fps/W |
| Mate 20 Pro (Kirin 980) | N7 | 54.54 | 4.57 | 11.93 fps/W |
| Galaxy S9 (Exynos 9810) | 10LPP | 46.04 | 4.08 | 11.28 fps/W |
| Galaxy S8 (Snapdragon 835) | 10LPE | 38.90 | 3.79 | 10.26 fps/W |
| Galaxy S8 (Exynos 8895) | 10LPE | 42.49 | 7.35 | 5.78 fps/W |
Even on the more traditional tests such as Manhattan 3.1, although again the Adreno 650 is able to showcase good improvements this generation, it seems that Qualcomm didn’t aim quite high enough.
| GFXBench T-Rex Offscreen Power Efficiency (System Active Power) |
||||
| Mfc. Process | FPS | Avg. Power (W) |
Perf/W Efficiency |
|
| iPhone 11 Pro (A13) Warm | N7P | 289.03 | 4.78 | 60.46 fps/W |
| iPhone 11 Pro (A13) Cold / Peak | N7P | 328.90 | 5.93 | 55.46 fps/W |
| iPhone XS (A12) Warm | N7 | 197.80 | 3.95 | 50.07 fps/W |
| iPhone XS (A12) Cold / Peak | N7 | 271.86 | 6.10 | 44.56 fps/W |
| QRD865 (Snapdragon 865) | N7P | 206.07 | 4.70 | 43.84 fps/W |
| Galaxy 10+ (Snapdragon 855) | N7 | 167.16 | 4.10 | 40.70 fps/W |
| Mate 30 Pro (Kirin 990 4G) | N7 | 152.27 | 4.34 | 35.08 fps/W |
| Galaxy S9+ (Snapdragon 845) | 10LPP | 150.40 | 4.42 | 34.00 fps/W |
| Galaxy 10+ (Exynos 9820) | 8LPP | 166.00 | 4.96 | 33.40fps/W |
| Galaxy S9 (Exynos 9810) | 10LPP | 141.91 | 4.34 | 32.67 fps/W |
| Galaxy S8 (Snapdragon 835) | 10LPE | 108.20 | 3.45 | 31.31 fps/W |
| Mate 20 Pro (Kirin 980) | N7 | 135.75 | 4.64 | 29.25 fps/W |
| Galaxy S8 (Exynos 8895) | 10LPE | 121.00 | 5.86 | 20.65 fps/W |
Lastly, the T-Rex benchmark which is the least compute heavy workload tested here, and mostly is bottlenecked by texture and fillrate throughput, sees a 23% increase for the Snapdragon 865.
Overall GPU Conclusion – Good Improvements – Competitively Not Enough
Overall, we were able to verify the Snapdragon 865’s performance improvements and Qualcomm’s 25% claims seem to be largely accurate. The issue is that this doesn’t seem to be enough to keep up with the large improvements that Apple has been able to showcase over the last two generations.
During the chipset’s launch, Qualcomm was eager to mention that their product is able to showcase better long-term sustained performance than a competitor which “throttles within minutes”. While we don’t have confirmation as to whom exactly they were referring to, the data and narrative here only matches Apple’s device behaviour. Whilst we weren’t able to test the sustained performance of the QRD865 today, it unfortunately doesn’t really matter for Qualcomm as the Snapdragon 865 and Adreno 650’s peak performance falls in at a lower level than Apple’s A13 sustained performance.
Apple isn’t the only one Qualcomm has to worry about; the 25% performance increases this generation are within reach of Arm’s Mali-G77. In theory, Samsung’s Exynos 990 should be able to catch up with the Snapdragon 865. Qualcomm had been regarded as the mobile GPU leader over the last few years, but it’s clear that development has slowed down quite a lot recently, and the Adreno family has lost its crown.
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sweetca - Wednesday, December 18, 2019 - link
Many comments, likely authored by data driven nerds (similar to me) are doing their best to ignore the facts: Years ago, Apple took the performance crown, and still wears it today. Inevitably, one day, someone will usurp Apple's position, but that day does not appear to be soon.Every comment which offers an explanation or justification as to 'why' Apple holds the top position, intrinsically agrees that they so do.
Lolimaster - Wednesday, December 18, 2019 - link
So QC did the same as samsung, just add vanilla ARM cores to their soc, all this years with "custom" core for almost zero gain but tons of problems at certain gens.MagicMonkeyBoy - Thursday, December 19, 2019 - link
I bought an iPhone 11 pro max. I took the thing back. A13 is way over rated. I don't believe these bench marks. The 865 is a better. Pubg is not good on the iPhone 11 pro max. The previous iPhone allowed you to set the graphics setting higher than the current settings available on the iPhone 11 pro max.Also the ram management is apauling.
When playing Pubg longer than 10 minutes. The phone heats upto 50 degrees Celsius. Hot 🔥.
Then it gets worse. Four out of six cores shut down. Throttling.
And the quality of the game just deteriorates.
The A13 is actually only a 5% increase over the A12.
The 865 when using other bench marks such as a truly cross compatible such as Speed Test G actually reveals that the 865 beats the A13.
https://www.androidauthority.com/snapdragon-865-be...
Gary explains is a better comparison. And more accurate.
I am now waiting for an 865 handset.
These tests seem like some sort of laboratory test instead of a real world test.
The SoC's have been designed knowing what kind of other peripherals are attached.
Amazing... When using the iPhone 11 pro max... You guys make me laugh. For something with such high statistical measurements in comparison to other SoC's. Only makes the A13 look even more foolish.
Take an 855+... When I use a realme x2 pro. When I use the same apps as what was on my iPhone 11 pro max. The realme x2 pro with its 855+ processor on board absolutely runs circles round the iPhone 11 pro max.
For something that is supposedly such high in Specs. Just makes the phone seem even more confounding. And even more humiliating.
When it comes to gaming. 855+ or definately the 865...
A13 in the iPhone 11 pro max is to be avoided for heavy gamers.
And we all know that the flagship snapdragons make better processors for gamers. Which requires optimal CPU's.
Sorry. But as a gamer. These benchmarks are not accurate or realistic at all. More like a laboratory benchmark.
I used to design chipsets and pcbs. At a discrete government laboratory. These benchmarks have a huge amount of discrepancies.
The 865 is overall actually a better SoC than the A13. It is way more dynamic than the A13.
joms_us - Thursday, December 19, 2019 - link
Finally, someone with great understanding and experience on how to properly rate a phone. They don't realize, CPU alone cannot function properly without the help of other modules or components. iPhone 11 is like a PC with i7-9900 + GT 2060 + 3GB DDR4-2400 while Android phone is like Ryzen 3900X + GTX 2080Ti + 2x4GB DDR4-3200The Garden Variety - Thursday, December 19, 2019 - link
"I used to design chipsets and pcbs. At a discrete government laboratory. These benchmarks have a huge amount of discrepancies."Even taking into consideration the rapid decline of comment quality on AT, this... is next level. Kudos, MagicMonkeyBoy, may your crazy never burn out. A++, would read again.
cha0z_ - Friday, December 27, 2019 - link
For start - the RAM management was a OS bug issue that was fixed in ios 13.2.X release and surely in ios 13.3 that is current. Secondly the missing GFX option is because the DEVELOPER didn't update the game for the new iphone.I had the same problem with the main game I play - vainglory. While the screen is on paper the same as XS max (as resolution and size) - the game UI was horribly buggy and it stayed like that for 2 months till they released an update for that model support. Ofc you will not have problems in any app or such a slow reaction by all the devs - but it happens. Going without saying that after those first few months you will never have such problems in that phone lifetime even if it's 5-6 years.
Third - taking speed test g serious is a lol thing to do. With everything stated below I will not waste my time to go technical why it's not serious.
Btw, used android for 10 years (only high end phones) till I switched to the pro max + I have highly technical background as education, hobby and work - especially in the field of electronics and computers.
Also talking how a chip that even didn't see a release, is better/worse vs X - hahahah :) Not to mention on what usage it's based.
Lastly - my iphone doesn't heat at all even in the heaviest games that are A LOT more heavy than your mentioned pubg joke. Try running full pc civ 6 on your android phones or dead cells... oh, no civ 6 as the performance will be poor on later turns. Also still no dead cells because devs can't make it run good on android available SOCs. ;)
iphonebestgamephone - Saturday, December 28, 2019 - link
Civ 6, the game that runs on a 6s? Dead cells, a side scroller? The developers are targeting what, the lowest end android socs?cha0z_ - Monday, December 30, 2019 - link
The game runs, but how it will run on big map turn 200+ is another story. :)As for dead cells - this is actually quite common, people think the game is light simple gfx wise, because of the art style/decisions. Actually talked with the devs on that topic - everything is 3d and the game is not that light as you might think. As for your absurd last statement - every developer would target the lowest end as it will bring more potential customers.
Do you want to talk about the hundreds more ios exclusive apps? Or to list the recent android "great games" that are on ios from years? I can also tell you thing or two how much better is to develop for ios vs android, how easy is to optimise for 10 devices vs 100000 or even how decent is actually the GPU in the 6s given it's low resolution. Because on android a crap GPU is paired frequently with high resolution screen and defo atleast 1080p, but 1440 is also seen in the budget oriented phones. So the statement how the regular size iphone 6s can game in 2019 is kinda rushed.
iphonebestgamephone - Monday, December 30, 2019 - link
"As for your absurd last statement - every developer would target the lowest end as it will bring more potential customers." - no they dont. Look at grid autosport. Look at fortnite."Do you want to talk about the hundreds more ios exclusive apps? Or to list the recent android "great games" that are on ios from years? I can also tell you thing or two how much better is to develop for ios vs android, how easy is to optimise for 10 devices vs 100000 or even how decent is actually the GPU in the 6s given it's low resolution. Because on android a crap GPU is paired frequently with high resolution screen and defo atleast 1080p, but 1440 is also seen in the budget oriented phones. So the statement how the regular size iphone 6s can game in 2019 is kinda rushed" - you are pretty ignorant arent you? Do you really think all games run at the screens native resolution on android? Why do you think graphics options exist? Do you want to talk emulation? How easy it is to run emulators on android? How many more systems are available to emulate? I dont. Because comparing platforms wasnt the point. It was all about android phones being too weak to run those games you mentioned. The devs should make it available for the flagships atleast for now, if they really want to.
So your iphone never heats up? If you have gfxtool for pubg on ios, get it and put everything to max and run it. Because even at the ingame max settings i have seen iphone x heating up.
cha0z_ - Tuesday, December 31, 2019 - link
I am into android from the start + symbian before than and also senior member with dev/helping known devs with project @ xda. So thank you, I know enough about android.I know that the iphone X heat a lot, it was known design flaw with that phone (if you will point heating apple device, this will top out the list most likely). I am currently with iphone 11 pro max and it never heats even half what my exynos note 9 do (and the exynos note 9 is colder vs the snapdragon variant). It's the first iphone with cooling solution and it really do wonders, you can refer to Andrei's iphone review for deep dive into the matter.
I can play fortnite maxed at 60fps and no fps drops or whatever even after 2 hours of play without major heating and you are talking about PUBG maxed. :)
Ofc that heat will be there, but as you can also read in Andrei's articles/reviews - apple's A chips are leading in performance AND efficiency. The heat you will see coming from A13 will be less than what you will see from the current android SOCs and/or literally can play games smoother with higher quality GFX and with more FPS.
Almost none of the heavier games is running native on mobile, but also most are running on lower res/game details on android vs ios.
Emulation is cool, did a lot on android with it. Including fun stuff like running diablo 2 LOD latest patch on my note 9, believe me - it's playable with the spen when on the go, in home one mouse and the TV = you are good to go. Still, ported or developed games for mobile just works better and you have such a vast library nowdays with high quality games that you really don't need to revisit old classics on your phone. Actually on ios the situation is a lot better, you got a lot more paid apps there vs android.
Btw, I generally prefer android and can write x3 times longer post about what I love there, but if we are talking about gaming - ios is the device to go.