Closing Thoughts: Qualcomm’s Competition

For the most part, five/six major names in this space are competing for the bulk of data center business: Intel, AMD, IBM, Cavium, and now Qualcomm. The first two are based in the omnipresent x86 architecture and are using different microarchitecture designs to account for most of the market (and Intel is most of that).

Intel’s main product is the Xeon Scalable Processor Family, launched in July, and builds on a new version of their 6th Generation core design by increasing the L2 cache, adding support for AVX-512, moving to an internal mesh topology, and offering up to 28 cores with 768 GB/DRAM per socket (up to 1.5TB with special models). Omnipath versions are also available, and the chipset ecosystem can add support for 10 gigabit Ethernet natively, at the expense of PCIe lanes. Xeon systems can be designed with up to 8 sockets natively, depending on the processor used (and cost). Interested customers can buy these parts today from OEMs.

Intel also has the latest generation of Atom cores, found in the new Denverton products. While Intel doesn’t necessarily promote these cores for the data center, some OEMs such as HP have developed ‘Moonshot’ style of deployments that place up to 60 SoCs with up to 8 cores each in a single server (which can move up to 16 cores per SoC with Denverton).

AMD meanwhile launched their attack back on the high-end server market earlier this year with EPYC. This product uses their new high-performance Zen microarchitecture, and implements a multi-silicon die design to supports up to 32 cores and 2 TB of DRAM per socket. By implementing their new Infinity Fabric technology, AMD is promoting a wide bandwidth product that despite the multi-silicon design is engineered with strong FP units and plenty of memory and IO bandwidth. Each EPYC processor offers 128 PCIe lanes for add-in cards or storage, and can use 64 PCIe lanes to connect to a second socket, offering 64 cores/128 threads with 4TB of DRAM and 128 PCIe lanes in a 2P system. AMD is slowly rolling out EPYC to premium customers first, with wider availability during the second half of 2017.

IBM is perhaps the odd-one out here, but due to the size is hard to ignore. IBM’s POWER architecture, and subsequent POWER8 and upcoming POWER9 designs, aim heavily on the ‘more of everything’ approach. More cores, wider cores, more threads per core, more frequency, and more memory, which translates to more cost and more energy. IBM’s partners can have custom designs of the microarchitecture implementation depending on their needs, as IBM tends to focus on the more mission critical mainframe infrastructure, but is slowly attempting to move into the traditional data center market. Large numbers such as ‘5.2 GHz’ can be enough to cause potential customers do a double take and analyze what IBM has to offer. We’ve tested IBM’s base POWER8 in the lab, and POWER9 is just around the corner.

Cavium is the most notable public player using ARM designs in commercial systems so far (there are a number of non-public players focusing on niche scenarios, or whom have little exposure outside of China). The original design, the Cavium ThunderX, uses a custom ARMv8 core, and is designed to provide large numbers of small CPU cores with as much memory bandwidth and IO as possible. For a design that uses relatively simple 2 instruction-per-clock CPU cores, the ThunderX chips are quite large, and Cavium is positioning that product in the high performance networking market as well as environments where core counts matter than peak performance, as seen in our review which pegged per-core performance at the level of Intel’s Atom chips. The newer ThunderX2 is aiming at HPC workloads, so it will focus more on higher per-core performance. With ARM having recently announced the A75 and A55 cores under the DynamIQ banner, we’re expecting Cavium’s future designs to use a number of new design choices.

So now Qualcomm enters the fray with the Centriq 2400 family, using Falkor cores, aiming to go above Cavium and push into the traditional x86 and data center arena where others have tried and got stuck into a bit of a quagmire. Qualcomm is hoping that its expertise within the ARM ecosystem, as well as the clout of the new product, will be something that the Big Seven Plus One cannot ignore. One big hurdle is that this space is traditionally x86, so moving to ARM requires potential code changes and recompiling that will lose potential software efficiency developed over a decade. Also the Windows Server market, which Qualcomm is solving with Microsoft with a form of x86 emulation. Much like we have been hearing about Windows 10 on Qualcomm’s Snapdragon 835 mobile chipsets, Qualcomm is going to be supporting Windows Server on Centriq 2400-series SoCs.

Wrapping thigns up, while Qualcomm has given us more information than we expected, we’d still love to hear exact numbers for L2 and L3 cache sizes, die sizes, TDPs, frequencies (we’ve been told >2.0 GHz with no turbo modes), the different SKUs coming to market, and confirmation about which foundry partner they are using.  Qualcomm will also have to be wary about ensuring sufficient support on all operating systems for customers that are interested, especially if this hardware migrates out of the specific customer set that are amenable to testing new platforms.

The Centriq 2400 family is currently being sampled in data centers, and moving into production by the end of 2017. The media sample timeframe unknown, however we're hoping we can get one in for testing before too long.

Getting Intimate with Falkor: The Back End
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  • tipoo - Sunday, August 20, 2017 - link

    Big ARM server CPUs will be interesting. The ISA is very sane and scalable, if the investment and demand was there it would have no issue getting to where large x86 cores are, the ISA was never the limit.

    Then we can see if they can actually exceed them.
  • Kevin G - Sunday, August 20, 2017 - link

    This makes me wish that Apple would license their cores to 3rd parties. Recent Apple cores are getting very close to where x86 lies per clock and they've certainly exceeded x86 in performance/watt in the ultra mobile space (granted Intel's last round of ultra mobile chips was flat out cancelled, skewing such a comparison).

    Considering Apple's work in ultra mobile, I find it believable that a higher performance per clock design in the server space is feasible for an ARM design. A company with enough resources just needs to do it.
  • iwod - Sunday, August 20, 2017 - link

    If the leaked numbers for A11 were true then Apple may have exceeded the performance / clock against Intel x86 as well.

    While Apple are highly unlikely to ever license their Cores out, I wish they could use those Cores and make an Xserve Server Come back.
  • peevee - Monday, August 21, 2017 - link

    XServe died because of their own OS. Nobody is interested in anything but Linux (and sometimes a little Windows).
    But they could have sold it with Linux though.
  • Dr. Swag - Sunday, August 20, 2017 - link

    Apple never will though, since it's Apple we're talking about. They keep their tech to themselves to give themselves the advantage.
  • name99 - Sunday, August 20, 2017 - link

    The only benchmarks that exist are geekbench4 and the browser benchmarks against Apple laptop hardware. By THOSE benchmarks A9X matched Intel in IPC and A10X exceeds by around 15%.

    This is clearly an area that draws out the crazies in full screaming mode because a lot of assumptions have to be made (for example the most realistic assumption is that the high-end Intel scores occur at the maximum turbo frequency, but the crazies will insist that, no, you have to normalize to the baseline intel frequency for that particular CPU). Or you get the insistence that the ONLY measurement that matters is against SPEC2006 compiled with icc, which runs into the issues that icc has MASSIVE effects on SPEC; and that no SPEC numbers in any form exist for the A10/A10X.

    At the end of the day, it boils down to "what is your goal?" If your goal is an honest comparison of the two processor families, the best data available suggests the summary I gave. If your goal is "my CPU can beat up your CPU" then all the data in the world presumably won't change your mind, and the best data of all is non-existent data (like the certain claims as to how the A10X would or would not behave on SPEC2006).

    Final point. It is not at all implausible, IMHO, that Apple have a plan, and have already started proceeding down it, for ARM in their data centers. After all, why not? It saves them money, it allows them to run at their pace not Intel's (eg install AI or compression or encryption accelerators as they need them) and provides better security (both security through obscurity and not having as large an attack surface as Intel).
    But why would they talk about it? Apple says nothing ever, unless they have to. No way they would advertise to their competitors the extent to which they have comparative advantage through use of their own data warehouse chips (for at least some purposes).
  • zodiacfml - Monday, August 21, 2017 - link

    Not sa fast. Apple's SoC's are huge in die size which is the reason for their performance. They are as big or bigger than Intel Core. The best part for comparison are the Core M parts. There is little or no business for Apple to do this. There are rumors using Apple SoC on a Macbook Air but that will make little sense as they will to need port OSX to ARM. Again, that is not a good idea as Macbook Pro nor the Mac Pros will continue with OSX .
  • cdillon - Monday, August 21, 2017 - link

    Apple has already ported OSX to ARM, and they call it "iOS". It's not going to be as big a deal as you think to get OSX as we know it to run in ARM. Not only that, but they already have experience with juggling two processor architectures (PPC and x86) at the same time in one OS.
  • extide - Monday, August 21, 2017 - link

    And 68k to PPC, back in the day
  • name99 - Monday, August 21, 2017 - link

    Apple's SoCs are not huge, neither are their cores.
    The iPhone SoC's tend to hover around 100 to 120mm^2, the iPad SoCs sometime reach 150, though the A10X is below 100.
    The cores are a few mm^2. Eyeballing it, I'd say the entire CPU complex (2 large cores, two small cores, and L2) is about 12mm^2. This is substantially larger than ARM cores (four A73s+their L2 in the same process technology would fit in 8mm^2) but substantially smaller than Intel (an Intel core these days runs at around 8mm^2 in Intels 14nm).

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