The Apple Thunderbolt Display Review
by Anand Lal Shimpi on September 23, 2011 2:56 AM EST- Posted in
- Displays
- Mac
- Apple
- Thunderbolt
- Thunderbolt Display
Thunderbolt Performance
The Eagle Ridge Thunderbolt controller is home to two Thunderbolt channels, each one is good for up to 10Gbps in either direction (up or downstream). That works out to be 20Gbps of bandwidth per channel or 40Gbps aggregate between the two. You can only send two channels worth of data down a single Thunderbolt cable, so there's no point to having more than two from a performance standpoint unless you have more than one port on your system.
If DisplayPort and PCIe traffic are indeed carried on separate channels, then the Thunderbolt Display by itself is eating up around 70% of the bandwidth of a single channel on its own (2560 x 1440 x 32bpp x 60Hz with 8b/10b encoding > 6.75Gbps). That leaves 10Gbps in each direction for PCIe traffic. If we look at our benchmarks from the previous section we see that we can hit just under 2Gbps with all of the auxiliary interfaces (GigE, FW800, USB2) running. Given our previous investigation with the Promise Pegasus we know that 8Gbps is feasible there as well. It's possible, that with everything running at once, we could actually run into bottlenecks with Thunderbolt.
To find out I ran a few tests. First I needed a baseline so I threw four SF-2281 SSDs into the Pegasus R6 chassis and configured them in a RAID-0 array. I ran a 2MB sequential read test (QD=16) and measured 909MB/s from the array. This value was obtained without the Thunderbolt Display connected, only the Pegasus R6.
Next I connected the Thunderbolt Display directly to my test MacBook Pro, and then connected the Pegasus to it. I repeated the test, this time getting 900MB/s. Thankfully the presence of the Thunderbolt Display doesn't seem to impact the max data rate I can get from the Pegasus.
For my third test I added a Gigabit Ethernet transfer from a file server to a local SSD using the GigE port on the display. During this test I was also playing back music using the Thunderbolt Display's internal audio codec and speakers. I re-ran the Pegasus test and got 855MB/s.
For my final test I re-ran the third test but added a FireWire 800 to USB 2.0 SSD transfer, both connected to the Thunderbolt Display. I also fired up the FaceTime HD camera on the display using Photo Booth and left it on during the test. The final performance score from the Pegasus was 817MB/s.
With everything running Thunderbolt performance took a 10% hit. Note that the standard Pegasus configuration isn't able to hit these data rates to begin with, so unless you've pulled out the 12TB of storage and stuck in your own SSDs you won't see any performance drop.
What this does tell me however is the ultra high end users that are looking to daisy chain multiple Thunderbolt storage boxes together may not want to do so. I only have a single Pegasus R6 on hand, but I'm guessing there will be significant performance drop off after the first box. Not that I'm complaining about being able to push nearly 1GB/s over a $49 cable from a notebook, I'm just trying to give a heads up to those who may have aspirations of even higher performance.
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dsumanik - Sunday, September 25, 2011 - link
Lemme guess, you have a macbook?My original post was not to tear down the display so much as to point out the blatant bias in the review.
Sorry man, its blatant.
Also
You have taken my qoutes as literals instead of sarcasm..obviously people with more than 2 brain cells would stack the display on some books instead of buying a height adjustable desk.
C'mon dude!
I kept bringing that up because anand used that as a way to offset the obvious shortcoming due to his bias toward this and apple products in general.....its a laughable excuse that was even mentioned!!
He could have said :
"The screen has no adjustable height, why did the engineers miss this one? You are going to have to stack your 1000 dollar display on some books in some instances, ruining the design goal of less clutter and a clean workspace that apple had intended to achieve"
He instead implied it was no biggie cuz you can get a height adjustable desk and chair...
LOL
There is no reason the display couldnt have adjustable height, NONE.
In your opinion..this would be "impossible" ok fine, you go with that.
In my opinion:
Someone in management thought the display would look cooler without it, and they could save some production costs while charigng the same pricetag.
The bias was too much for me in this review, it distracted me from the actual product review...its all i could hear after awhile...there is a reason for that.
Not because the display sucks or doesnt suck.
There was a whole combined 60 seconds spent of the shortcomings of this diplay followed by a 14 minute praise apple and heres a blowjob for being so awesome commercial.
I think the display is nice, thunderbolt is an interesting technology that could provide some awesome tech in the future......
BUT
I just dont see why this display was recommended as "a must have item"
It was a commercial, plain and simple, because anand loves apple products and this is in his opinion one of the more interesting ones to come out this year.
my original summary still stands with some corrections
-no sound OUTPUT (sorry!)
-no usb 3
-incompatible with anything but 2011 MACS (right now)
-1000 dollars (i could buy 5 TN 1920x1080 displays for same price)
-you need to buy an adjustable desk and chair (joke!)
I didnt list firewire as a pro because since the conception of this technology i have not ever used a device requiring it, nor has anyone else ive ever known. Yes I am sure poeple out there in internet land might need it somewhere.
But do you think it would it be awesome if they included an ISA slot too????
LOL
I guarantee you and every single person you know could make use of a USB 3.0 port far more often.
the resoultion is nice, but doesnt justity 1000 bucks.... Built-in speakers, microphone and HD webcam....no problem you can find a 200 monitor with that too.
Also your macbook likely has all these things already!!!!
LOL
Go buy the display youve already made up your mind, this review sealed the deal for you...stop wasting your time and get down to the apple store....HURRY...there might be people camped out to buy one....run quickly!!! They are all gonna be sold and youll be left without this must have item for 2011!!!
BWAHAHAHA
repoman27 - Monday, September 26, 2011 - link
Lemme guess, you have an American car?I'm pretty sure Anand realized that the engineers didn't "miss" the adjustable height or swivel options. They've opted not to offer these features for some time now on both the iMac and the Apple Cinema Displays, so it's nothing new. There are plenty of sound engineering reasons why they have chosen their current design. A single solid piece of aluminum looks cool, costs less, and is way less prone to failure than something more complex. The latter reason being a lot more of an issue with a 23 pound, $999, glass clad panel than with your cheap plastic 1920x1080 TN garbage.
I'm guessing you don't have many friends if you've never known anyone who uses FireWire. Almost everyone I know who has a Mac uses it, even if just for the occasional FireWire Target Disk Mode transfer. I use FireWire external enclosures because I do a lot of disk imaging and I value my time. I also know a lot of audio professionals who have quite a bit of FireWire audio gear. Yeah, I get it. If it's not useful to you, it has no value.
USB 3.0 hasn't even been shipping for 2 years yet. In it's first year it had an attach rate in the PC market of 3.5%. The projections for 2011 peg it at 18%. So even though far more PC's will ship with 1394 interfaces this year than USB 3.0, you still believe USB 3.0 is vastly more useful. Have you bothered to notice that there isn't a hell of a lot of device silicon available yet, so the only USB 3.0 enabled devices currently on the market are external drives and enclosures, bulky flash memory sticks, hubs, and a couple of memory card readers? That's it man. Not to mention that the drivers are also far from polished at this point.
You object to the bias in this review, yet you have clearly demonstrated that you have zero ability to objectively gauge the quality or inherent value of anything.
dsumanik - Monday, September 26, 2011 - link
Actually i own a an american truck and a japanese motorcycle.ford ranger
yamaha R1
I also own an iphone4, and previously a 3gs... if youd like me to facetime you ill gladly prove it.
Im not anti apple...or anandtech...the reiview was mother effing biased.. That was my point and i think you've heard it. I wouldnt have posted my initial comments otherwise....you think im imagining this all in my head????
And im sorry but usb3 is backwards compatible...you can use it with anything from the last 10 years, 3.5% market penetration??? When was the last time you saw a PC or notebook or macbook ship without USB support?
How you gonna install lion on your mac without USB? Doesnt apple ship it's OS on a thumbdrive??? Guarantee it would install faster on USB 3!
That says it all.
If FW was so great why didnt they ship it on a FW flash drive?
Have you ever even heard of a firewire flash drive??? I think there was like some kangaru branded ones or something but they were super expensive.
Also, with ssd's saturating the sata 3 Gbps bus already...why waste time using USB or firewire to disk image? Firewire never took off, never will, and has been succeeded by esata, USB3 and now thunderbolt..Whether you like it or not.
But hey you can go on pretending like its not a dead interface.
Also, some food for thought....why are you trying to change my mind about this???? I'm not going to magically "see the light of day" and agree that this monitor is the best thing since sliced cheese
Im at peace with your reasoning..faulted in my view...but its no skin off my back...and your mind is made up....so go buy the monitor...
Apple and anand have spoken and this is a must have item!!!
You need to get down to the mac store like now instead of arguing with an idiot like me...the lineup is already huge and there are campers everywhere...buy it now before its too late!!
p.s.
Dont forget to grab a height adjustable desk!!!!
repoman27 - Monday, September 26, 2011 - link
I never mentioned my feelings about this display one way or the other. I also made no attempt to change your mind in regards to whether the ATD was desirable. I joined the argument because you made several inaccurate or irrational statements.I also never disagreed with you about the article being biased. However, objectivity and impartiality are not the same thing. If the data presented is verifiable and accurate, whether or not Anand arrives at the same conclusions as you should be somewhat immaterial.
I will keep bombarding you with reality regarding I/O interfaces though...
First of all, the attach rates I included were quoted from data presented by the USB-IF and, as I clearly stated, were for USB 3.0, not all revisions.
USB is very useful, more than 3 billion USB devices will ship this year. However, only 84 million of those will be USB 3.0 devices, all of them will still function with USB 2.0 or 1.1 interfaces, and not a single one currently offers any functionality that is unable to be duplicated by other interfaces.
There are far more than 84 million FireWire devices in the wild that have functionality that simply cannot be achieved using USB of any revision. It's a different architecture with a different set of capabilities.
eSATA is not a general purpose I/O, it can only be used for mass storage devices.
USB and FireWire are very complementary and exist side-by-side. Every Mac or PC to ever ship with 1394 also has USB. If you can't use USB in a given situation due to it's limitations, you pay for the device with the FireWire controller in it. I imagine that in time Thunderbolt will supplant FireWire and sit alongside USB 3.0. Once again, if you need a device that isn't possible using USB 3.0, pony up for a device with a Thunderbolt controller.
dsumanik - Tuesday, September 27, 2011 - link
psssst....above top secret classified news bulletin:
Firewire's dead bro and the review was biased!
Constructor - Tuesday, September 27, 2011 - link
Nonsense. FireWire isn't "dead". There are quite a few interfaces which have no alternative to using FireWire for several reasons, notably latencies among them.Thunderbolt is now the first possible alternative which can actually replace FireWire in every case (the sole exception: devices can potentially draw even more power from FireWire than even from Thunderbolt).
As to "bias" in the article: The article primarily demonstrated what the tested device can actually do in practice and how the technology behind it works, complete with numerical measurements.
All that with clear qualifications on which kinds of use cases it will support and which ones it won't.
If you think that only thoroughly negative reports on a tested device could be "unbiased" (or maybe just when we're talking about Apple's products, specifically?), then you probably have a very distorted view on such matters yourself and little understaning what "unbiased" even means.
repoman27 - Tuesday, September 27, 2011 - link
psssst... If you weren't just trolling you'd realize that I never disagreed with you about the review being biased.1.4 billion FireWire devices shipped... more than 200 million in 2011... Continued strong support from Apple... Yeah, death rattle, bro. 86 FireWire.
AnnonymousCoward - Tuesday, September 27, 2011 - link
repoman27, dsumanik is absolutely right. If you spend $1000 on a monitor, it had better have height adjustment!Think of it this way; that's 4x a normal display cost. So if you buy a 4x cost car ($60k), it had damn well better have steering wheel height adjustment.
FW flash drive, LOL. I didn't even know those existed.
Apple didn't add proper monitor adjustments because they put style over functionality. And that's why they will always be at a disadvantage even beyond the price premium.
As for me, I've been enjoying my monitor for about the last 5 years...it's 3" more diagonal, it has 1600 vertical pixels, full height and swivel movement, and SD/CF card readers! How about that...look how much we've advanced in 5 years.
btw I don't get Anand's comment "These aren't just ports, they are backed by controllers physically located within the display" - is he saying they're not just fake ports and they actually work?
dsumanik - Tuesday, September 27, 2011 - link
amen brotha,those ports arent just ports...they have controllers to back them up...
so watch out...
if you dont give this display the height adjustable desk it deserves...
The TB display will download your gigabit ethernet into the HD webcam and facetime your arse into a FW drive!!
(but only at USB 2.0 speeds!)
AnnonymousCoward - Tuesday, September 27, 2011 - link
Apple should have the height adjustable desk as an accessory.And advertise on their site "we have controllers to back up our ports".