The AMD 2nd Gen Ryzen Deep Dive: The 2700X, 2700, 2600X, and 2600 Tested
by Ian Cutress on April 19, 2018 9:00 AM ESTTalking 12nm and Zen+
One of the highlights of the Ryzen 2000-series launch is that these processors use GlobalFoundries’ 12LP manufacturing process, compared to the 14LPP process used for the first generation of Ryzen processors. Both AMD and GlobalFoundries have discussed the differences in the processes, however it is worth understanding that each company has different goals: AMD only needs to promote what helps its products, whereas GlobalFoundries is a semiconductor foundry with many clients and might promote ideal-scenario numbers. Earlier this year we were invited to GlobalFoundries Fab 8 in upstate New York to visit the clean room, and had a chance to interview Dr. Gary Patton, the CTO.
The Future of Silicon: An Exclusive Interview with Dr. Gary Patton, CTO of GlobalFoundries
In that interview, several interesting items came to light. First, that the CTO doesn’t necessarily have to care much about what certain processes are called: their customers know the performance of a given process regardless of the advertised ‘nm’ number based on the development tools given to them. Second, that 12LP is a series of minor tweaks to 14LPP, relating to performance bumps and improvements that come from a partial optical shrink and a slight change in manufacturing rules in the middle-line and back-end of the manufacturing process. In the past this might not have been so news worthy, however GF’s customers want to take advantage of the improved process.
Overall, GlobalFoundries has stated that its 12LP process offers a 10% performance improvement and a 15% circuit density improvement over 14LPP.
This has been interpreted in many ways, such as an extra 10% frequency at the same power, or lower power for the same frequency, and an opportunity to build smaller chips.
As part of today’s launch, AMD has clarified what the move to 12LP has meant for the Ryzen 2000-series:
- Top Clock Speeds lifted by ~250 MHz (~6%)
- All-core overclocks around 4.2 GHz
- ~50 mV core voltage reduction
AMD goes on to explain that at the same frequency, its new Ryzen 2000-series processors draw around 11% less power than the Ryzen 1000-series. The claims also state that this translates to +16% performance at the same power. These claims are a little muddled, as AMD has other new technologies in the 2000-series which will affect performance as well.
One interesting element is that although GF claims that there is a 15% density improvement, AMD is stating that these processors have the same die size and transistor count as the previous generation. Ultimately this seems in opposition to common sense – surely AMD would want to use smaller dies to get more chips per wafer?
Ultimately, the new processors are almost carbon copies of the old ones, both in terms of design and microarchitecture. AMD is calling the design of the cores as ‘Zen+’ to differentiate them to the previous generation ‘Zen’ design, and it mostly comes down to how the microarchitecture features are laid out on the silicon. When discussing with AMD, the best way to explain it is that some of the design of the key features has not moved – they just take up less area, leaving more dark silicon between other features.
Here is a very crude representation of features attached to a data path. On the left is the 14LPP design, and each of the six features has a specific size and connects to the bus. Between each of the features is the dark silicon – unused silicon that is either seen as useless, or can be used as a thermal buffer between high-energy parts. On the right is the representation of the 12LP design – each of the features have been reduced in size, putting more dark silicon between themselves (the white boxes show the original size of the feature). In this context, the number of transistors is the same, and the die size is the same. But if anything in the design was thermally limited by the close proximity of two features, there is now more distance between them such that they should interfere with each other less.
For reference, AMD lists the die-size of these new parts as 213mm2, containing 4.8 billion transistors, identical to the first generation silicon design. AMD confirmed that they are using 9T transistor libraries, also the same as the previous generation, although GlobalFoundries offers a 7.5T design as well.
So is Zen+ a New Microarchitecture, or Process Node Change?
Ultimately, nothing about most of the Zen+ physical design layout is new. Aside from the manufacturing process node change and likely minor adjustments, the rest of the adjustments are in firmware and support:
- Cache latency adjustments leading to +3% IPC
- Increased DRAM Frequency Support to DDR4-2933
- Better voltage/frequency curves, leading to +10% performance overall
- Better Boost Performance with Precision Boost 2
- Better Thermal Response with XFR2
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Maxiking - Tuesday, April 24, 2018 - link
"I just finished running Rise of the Tomb Raider benchmarks, 1080p, very high preset, FXAA.Unpatched:
Mountain Peak: 131.48 FPS (min: 81.19 max: 197.02)
Syria: 101.99 FPS (min: 62.73, max: 122.24)
Geothermal Valley: 98.93 FPS (min:76.48, max: 117.00)
Overall score: 111.31 FPS
Windows patch only:
Mountain Peak: 135.34 FPS (min: 38.21 max: 212.84)
Syria: 102.54 FPS (min: 44.22, max: 144.03)
Geothermal Valley: 96.36 FPS (min:41.35, max: 148.46)
Overall score: 111.93 FPS
Windows patch and BIOS update:
Mountain Peak: 134.01 FPS (min: 59.91 max: 216.16)
Syria: 101.68 FPS (min: 38.95, max: 143.44)
Geothermal Valley: 97.55 FPS (min:46.18, max: 143.97)
Overall score: 111.62 FPS
Average framerates don't seem affected."
From the link you posted, you got rekt by yourself.
Ranger1065 - Wednesday, April 25, 2018 - link
Nicely done Mr Aardvark. That made me smile.mikael.skytter - Tuesday, April 24, 2018 - link
Thanks for a great review. Any chance it would be possible to look into how SpeedShift 2 compares to AMD:s solution for short burst loads and clock ramp-up?Thanks!
koekkoe - Tuesday, April 24, 2018 - link
My favorite part in the article: fsfasd.Meow.au - Tuesday, April 24, 2018 - link
I’ve visited the comments section a few times since the publication. As a psychologist in training, I’ve found it interesting as the initial complaints about this review were reasonable (it doesn’t match other sites), but by page 45 are now bordering on paranoia and conspiracy theories. The conspiracy theories are all the more puzzling when the simplest and most reasonable explanation is that the spectre patch has punished Intel processors rather severely. I’ve found trying to argue against conspiracy theories, be it the moon landing or anti-vaxers, to be singularly ineffective.The more you provide scientific evidence and rationality, the harder conspiracy theorists dig in their heels and defend their original position. Our natural confirmatory bias to only seek evidence which confirms pre-existing beliefs seems to be a flaw built into the wiring of the human brain. Psychologically protective? Yes... it’s nice to always be right. Useful for doing science? No.
I’d be delighted (and shocked) in a week’s time to learn of massive incompetence or a cover up. I expect there to be some interesting and unexpected details. But I’m guessing no evidence will be found for the commonly repeated conspiracy theories (spectre effect is minimal, heatsink throttling, bias against intel, etc.). But I guess that will just be further evidence there really is a conspiracy... whatever.
Keep up the good work guys. A long time reader.
RafaelHerschel - Wednesday, April 25, 2018 - link
I think you need more training, psychologist in training, because it seems that you can't detect your own personal bias. As you stated yourself, the original complaints are quite reasonable. The problem is that AnandTech is not addressing these complaints in a timely manner and is mostly interested in damage control.The fact that some complaints are unreasonable doesn't change the fact.
Many other reviewers have applied all relevant patches, it is poor form to assume that they haven't. But I understand why you question their competence or integrity. It's cognitive dissonance. You trust AnandTech. In this case AnandTech is an outlier and has not clarified the unique results of their gaming test. Your trust in AnandTech is therefore not logical, and yet you consider yourself a logical person.
Therefore, you have decided that the 'logical' explanation is that all other reviewers haven't applied the patches... whatever.
divertedpanda - Wednesday, April 25, 2018 - link
Other reviewers admitted having not patched down to the bios since some used mobos where patches were not yet released.TrackSmart - Thursday, April 26, 2018 - link
This comment by RafaelHerschel doesn't make sense. The person being maligned said exactly this: "I expect there to be some interesting and unexpected details. But I’m guessing no evidence will be found for the commonly repeated conspiracy theories..."And he/she was EXACTLY CORRECT in that prediction.
Your complaint, on the other hand, seems disingenuous. Anandtech's staff immediately flagged their gaming results as anomalous (on just about every page of the article). Then they dug deep to figure out what happened, which takes time to test, confirm, and then publish about). Then about 5 days later they posted updated results (2700x and i7-8700k, so far) and a VERY DETAILED explanation of what happened.
So.... What's the problem again? That sometimes unforeseen test parameters can lead to different results? That can happen. The only question is how was the situation handled. In this case, I think reasonably well under the circumstances.
mapesdhs - Monday, May 14, 2018 - link
Grud knows now what "timely manner" is supposed to mean these days. Perhaps RafaelHerschel would only be happy if AT can go back in time and change the article before it's published.Meow.au, re what you said, Stefan Molyneux has some great pieces on these issues on YT.
schlock - Tuesday, April 24, 2018 - link
Why aren't we running DDR4-3200 across all systems? It may go a small ways to explaining the small discrepancy in intel performance ...