The AMD Zen and Ryzen 7 Review: A Deep Dive on 1800X, 1700X and 1700
by Ian Cutress on March 2, 2017 9:00 AM ESTThe Core Complex, Caches, and Fabric
Many core designs often start with an initial low-core-count building block that is repeated across a coherent fabric to generate a large number of cores and the large die. In this case, AMD is using a CPU Complex (CCX) as that building block which consists of four cores and the associated caches.
Each core will have direct access to its private L2 cache, and the 8 MB of L3 cache is, despite being split into blocks per core, accessible by every core on the CCX with ‘an average latency’ also L3 hits nearer to the core will have a lower latency due to the low-order address interleave method of address generation.
The L3 cache is actually a victim cache, taking data from L1 and L2 evictions rather than collecting data from prefetch/demand instructions. Victim caches tend to be less effective than inclusive caches, however Zen counters this by having a sufficiency large L2 to compensate. The use of a victim cache means that it does not have to hold L2 data inside, effectively increasing its potential capacity with less data redundancy.
It is worth noting that a single CCX has 8 MB of cache, and as a result the 8-core Zen being displayed by AMD at the current events involves two CPU Complexes. This affords a total of 16 MB of L3 cache, albeit in two distinct parts. This means that the true LLC for the entire chip is actually DRAM, although AMD states that the two CCXes can communicate with each other through the custom fabric which connects both the complexes, the memory controller, the IO, the PCIe lanes etc.
The cache representation shows L1 and L2 being local to each the core, followed by 8MB of L3 split over several cores. AMD states that the L1 and L2 bandwidth is nearly double that of Excavator, with L3 now up to 5x for bandwidth, and that this bandwidth will help drive the improvements made on the prefetch side. AMD also states that there are large queues in play for L1/L2 cache misses.
One interesting story is going to be how AMD’s coherent fabric works. For those that follow mobile phone SoCs, we know fabrics and interconnects such as CCI-400 or the CCN family are optimized to take advantage of core clusters along with the rest of the chip. A number of people have speculated that the fabric used in AMD’s new design is based on HyperTransport, however AMD has confirmed that they are using a superset HyperTransport here for Zen, and that the Infinity fabric design is meant to be high bandwidth, low latency, and be in both Zen and Vega as well as future products. Almost similar to the CPU/GPU roadmaps, the Fabric has its own as well.
Ultimately the new fabric involves a series of control and data passing structures, with the data passing enabling third-party IP in custom designs, a high-performance common bus for large multi-unit (CPU/GPU) structures, and socket to socket communication. The control elements are an extension of power management, enabling parts of the fabric to duty cycle when not in use, security by way of memory management and detection, and test/initialization for activities such as data prefetch.
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nt300 - Saturday, March 11, 2017 - link
If AMD hadn't gone with GF's 14nm process, ZEN would probably have been delayed. I think as soon as Ryzen Optimizations come out, these chips will further outperform.MongGrel - Thursday, March 9, 2017 - link
For some reason making a casual comment about anything bad about the chip will get you banned at the drop of a hat on the tech forums, and then if you call him out they will ban you more.
https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2017/03/amds-momen...
MongGrel - Thursday, March 9, 2017 - link
For some reason, MarkFW seems to thinks he is the reincarnation of Kyle Bennet, and whines a lot before retreating to his safe space.nt300 - Saturday, March 11, 2017 - link
I've noticed in the past that AMD has an issue with increasing L3 cache speed and/or Latencies. Hopefully they start tightening the L3 as much as possible. Can Anandtech do a comparison between Ryzen before Optimizations and after Optimizations. Tyalpha754293 - Friday, March 17, 2017 - link
Looks like that for a lot of the compute-intensive benchmarks, the new Ryzen isn't that much better than say a Core i5-7700K.That's quite a bit disappointing.
AMD needs to up their FLOPS/cycle game in order to be able to compete in that space.
Such a pity because the original Opterons were a great value proposition vs. the Intels. Now, it doesn't even come close.
deltaFx2 - Saturday, March 25, 2017 - link
@Ian Cutress: When you do test gaming, if you can, I'd love to have the hypothesis behind the 'generally accepted methodology' tested out. The methodology being, to test it at lowest resolution. The hypothesis is that this stresses the CPU, and that a future, higher performance GPU will be bottlenecked by the slower CPU. Sounds logical, but is it?Here's the thing: Typically, when given more computing resources, people scale up their problem to utilize those resources. In other words, if I give you a more powerful GPU, games will scale up their perf requirements to match it, by doing stuff that were not possible/practical in earlier GPUs. Today's games are far more 'realistic' and are played at much higher resolutions than say 5 years ago. In which case, the GPU is always the limiting factor no matter what (unless one insists on playing 5 year old games on the biggest, baddest GPU). And I fully expect that the games of today are built to max out current GPUs, so hardware lags software.
This has parallels with what happens in HPC: when you get more compute nodes for HPC problems, people scale up the complexity of their simulations rather than running the old, simplified simulations. Amdahl's law is still not a limiting factor for HPC, and we seem to be talking about Exascale machines now. Clearly, there's life in HPC beyond what a myopic view through the Amdahl law lens would indicate.
Just a thought :) Clearly, core count requirements have gone up over the last decade, but is it true that a 4c/8t sandy bridge paired up with Nvidia's latest and greatest is CPU-bottlenecked at likely resolutions?
wavelength - Friday, March 31, 2017 - link
I would love to see Anand test against AdoredTV's most recent findings on Ryzen https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0tfTZjugDegLawJikal - Friday, April 21, 2017 - link
What I'm surprised to see missing... in virtually all reviews across the web... is any discussion (by a publication or its readers) on the AM4 platform's longevity and upgradability (in addition to its cost, which is readily discussed).Any Intel Platform - is almost guaranteed to not accommodate a new or significantly revised microarchitecture... beyond the mere "tick". In order to enjoy a "tock", one MUST purchase a new motherboard (if historical precedent is maintained).
AMD AM4 Platform - is almost guaranteed to, AT LEAST, accommodate Ryzen "II" and quite possibly Ryzen "III" processors. And, in such cases, only a new processor and BIOS update will be necessary to do so.
This is not an insignificant point of differentiation.
PeterCordes - Monday, June 5, 2017 - link
The uArch comparison table has some errors for the Intel columns. Dispatch/cycle: Skylake can read 6 uops per clock from the uop cache into the issue queue, but the issue stage itself is still only 4 uops wide. You've labelled Even running from the loop buffer (LSD), it can only sustain a throughput of 4 uops per clock, same 4-wide pipeline width it has been since Core2. (pre-Haswell it has to be a mix of ALU and some store or load to sustain that throughput without bottlenecking on the execution ports.) Skylake's improved decode and uop-cache bandwidth lets it refill the uop queue (IDQ) after bubbles in earlier stages, keeping the issue stage fed (since the back-end is often able to actually keep up).Ryzen is 6-wide, but I think I've read that it can only issue 6 uops per clock if some of them are from "double instructions". e.g. 256-bit AVX like VADDPS ymm0, ymm1, ymm2 that decodes to two separate 128-bit uops. Running code with only single-uop instructions, the Ryzen's front-end throughput is 5 uops per clock.
In Intel terminology, "dispatch" is when the scheduler (aka Reservation Station) sends uops to the execution units. The row you've labelled "dispatch / cycle" is clearly the throughput for issuing uops from the front-end into the out-of-order core, though. (Putting them into the ROB and Reservation Station). Some computer-architecture people call that "dispatch", but it's probably not a good idea in an x86 context. (Unless AMD uses that terminology; I'm mostly familiar with Intel).
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You list the uop queue size at 128 for Skylake. This is bogus. It's always 64 per thread, with or without hyperthreading. Intel has alternated in SnB/IvB/HSW/SKL between this and letting one thread use both queues as a single big queue. HSW/BDW statically partition their 56-entry queue into two 28-entry halves when two threads are active, otherwise it's a 56-entry queue. (Not 64). Agner Fog's microarch pdf and Intel's optmization manual both confirm this (in Section 2.1.1 about Skylake's front-end improvements over previous generations).
Also, the 4-uop per clock issue width is 4 fused-domain uops, so I was able to construct a loop that runs 7 unfused-domain uops per clock (http://www.agner.org/optimize/blog/read.php?i=415#... with 2 micro-fused ALU+load, one micro-fused store, and a dec/branch. AMD doesn't talk about "unfused" uops because it doesn't use a unified scheduler, IIRC, so memory source operands always stay with the ALU uop.
Also, you mentioned it in the text, but the L1d change from write-through to write-back is worth a table row. IIRC, Bulldozer's L1d write-back has a small buffer or something to absorb repeated writes of the same lines, so it's not quite as bad as a classic write-through cache would be for L2 speed/power requirements, but Ryzen is still a big improvement.