Positioning the Tyan GT75

Tyan positions the GT75-BP012 as an HPC and virtualization server. But that is clearly a mistake. Since the POWER architecture has been almost completely absent in the HPC world for years now, the HPC software ecosystem is dominated by x86. The POWER HPC software ecosystem is very small in comparison. That is a fact, not an opinion, as even IBM talked about "a re-entry in the HPC market" at the end of 2015.

But people do not switch to another server ecosystem easily: there has to be a compelling reason, a Unique Selling Proposition (USP). Only the recently launched S822LC can claim such an USP; it has a much faster link (NVLink) to the best NVIDIA GPUs, and as a result can offer much higher performance in some specifically-tailored HPC applications.

The GT75-BP012 has no GPU capable PCIe slot, let alone an NVLink connection. In the cramped 1U space, the CPU is limited to 3.025 GHz, which is a bad trade-off for HPC users. The GT75-BP012 is definitely not an HPC server.

Neither is it a virtualization server, as the virtualization market lives and dies by performance-per-watt.

The only target that is left is the “In-memory computing” market, which ranges from in-memory key value stores ("Redis") to DB2 BLU. In those cases, the limited processing power is – most of the time – less important than the amount of memory that can be installed at a reasonable price. Originally, the server was limited to 512 GB (32 slots, 16 GB per slot) but it should now support up to 1 TB. We say "should" as we were not able to check this.

Still, we do not feel a 1U server is a good match for POWER8. Place that POWER8 CPU on the same Tyan "Habanero" motherboard inside the 2U IBM S812LC (and Tyan's own 2U TN71 servers) and you'll get a much more attractive server. The CPU performs 40% better, the power under load is 20% lower, and you get much more PCIe slots. To reduce it to a car analogy, a turbocharged V8 cannot breathe through a straw.

Tyan's Business Model: Direct Sales Only

As one of the founding fathers of the OpenPOWER foundation, Tyan is in a unique position. It can be the "Open and easily accessible" vendor for buyers who don't care about the different services IBM offers, but just want a fast POWER server for an affordable price. However, the truth is that it is a lot easier to buy a server from IBM than from Tyan.

While the S812LC can be found on IBM's web shop, Tyan follows the more traditional Direct Sales model. So you are meant to buy the POWER8 servers in large volumes, and pricing varies by contract. As a result of this sales model, Tyan does not readily disclose the price of this server.

Consequently, in our discussions with Tyan they were vague about pricing due to the above, which makes it very difficult for us to make any meaningful comparison to other POWER8 offerings or any Xeon-based servers. While it's of course Tyan's choice how they want to do business, we consider this a missed opportunity for the company, as all of the other OpenPOWER vendors are also targeting the customers who want to buy servers in large volumes. As a result, if you want low volumes, IBM is your only choice as far as we know.

Eye Towards the Future: POWER9

Wrapping things up, the announcement of the POWER9 SMT-4 Scale Out processor is the reason why we remain optimistic about the chances of the OpenPOWER ecosystem. A full analysis of POWER9 is beyond the scope of this article, but there is a lot we like about what has been disclosed thus far for the "Linux optimized" POWER9 SO SMT-4:

  1. It is not an improved POWER8, there are many large improvements
  2. A better balance between single-threaded performance and throughput: SMT-4 will be combined with a more powerful core
  3. NVLink 2.0, which offers 7x more bandwidth to the GPU than PCIe 3.0
  4. No more power-hogging, latency-increasing memory buffers

The POWER9 SO SMT-4 will have up to 8 DDR-4 channels, and up to 2 DIMMs per socket. This means that raw memory bandwidth and memory capacity are halved relative to POWER8, but it is a very good trade-off. The use of direct attached memory (same as the Xeon E5) lowers the latency of DRAM accesses, makes the motherboard design a lot less expensive, and lowers power consumption with 60-80W.

Add 50 to 100% higher performance per socket, and you get formidable competitor for the new Xeon E5 v4 "Skylake EP". Tyan is in a good position to make this powerhouse accessible for the rest of us, so hopefully we will see a more ambitious approach than today.

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  • Zzzoom - Friday, February 24, 2017 - link

    "As important as performance per watt is, several markets – HPC, Analytics, and AI chief among them – consider performance the most important metric. Wattage has to be kept under control, but that is it."

    What a load of garbage.
  • JohanAnandtech - Saturday, February 25, 2017 - link

    And now maybe some arguments that substantiate your opinion?
  • SarahKerrigan - Sunday, February 26, 2017 - link

    In HPC specifically, power consumption is a major issue. This was the entire root of the success of the Blue Gene line back in the day, and why NEC is shifting its supercomputing CPUs to progressively more efficient cores instead of higher-performance cores now (SX-9: 102.4GF/core; SX-ACE: 64GF/core.) . HPC is sensitive to running cost, and power dissipation is a critical factor in that.
  • Zzzoom - Monday, February 27, 2017 - link

    Go read the 7+ years worth of materials from the EE HPC Working Group.
  • JohanAnandtech - Wednesday, March 1, 2017 - link

    In a system with 2-4 GPUs, 512 GB of RAM, the TDP of the CPU is not a dealbreaker. I can agree that some HPC markets are more sensitive to perf/watt; but I have seen a lot of examples where raw performance per dollar was just as important.
  • Zzzoom - Wednesday, March 1, 2017 - link

    POWER8 TDP is 45W-102W higher per socket than the highest spec Xeon E5. That's 90W-204W higher per node where each node consumes 1500W-2000W, or 6-10% total on a site with a multi-million dollar power bill that went to great lengths to bring down the PUE by a similar amount. So for anyone to pick POWER8 it has to do better on energy to solution through its unique features, or be considerably cheaper (ha!). POWER8's advantage is NVLink, but TSUBAME3 going with Intel+PLX switches on top of NVLink shows that it's not that big of a deal.
    Anyway, the efficiency requirements on the CORAL procurements are pretty strict so scale-out POWER9+Volta will have to shed a lot of weight.
  • Zzzoom - Wednesday, March 1, 2017 - link

    I forgot about the memory buffers. It's even worse.
  • mystic-pokemon - Sunday, March 5, 2017 - link

    Guys, I know shit ton of stuff about a server Johan listed above. He has a point when he says Power consumption is only so much important.
    In short, when you combine all aspects to TCO model: POWER8 server delivers most optimal TCO value
    We consider all the following into our TCO model
    a) Cost of ownership of the server
    b) Warranty (Lesser than conventional server, different model of operations)
    c) What it delivers (How many independent threads (SMT8 on POWER8 remember ? 192 hardware threads), how much Memory Bandwidth (230 GBPs), how much total memory capacity in 1 server ( 1 TB with 32 GB)
    d) For a public cloud use-case, how many VMs (with x HW threads and x memory cap / bw ) can you deliver on 1 POWER8 server compared to other servers in fleet today ? Based on above stats, a lot .
    e) Data center floor lease cost in DC ( 24 of these servers in 1 Rack, much denser. Average the lease over age of server: 3 years ). This includes all DC services like aggers, connectivity and such.
    f) Cost per KWH in the specific DC ( 1 Rack has nominal power 750W)

    All this combined POWER has good TCO. Its a massively parallel server, what where major advantage comes from. Choose your workload wisely. That's why companies continue to work on it.

    I am talking about all this without actually combining with CAPI over PCIe and openCAPI. Get it ? POWER is going no where.
  • Michael Bay - Friday, February 24, 2017 - link

    I think at this point in time intel has more to fear from goddamn ARM than IBM in server space.
    Okay, maybe AMD as well.
  • JohanAnandtech - Friday, February 24, 2017 - link

    Personally I think OpenPOWER is a viable competitor, but in the right niches (In memory databases, GPU accelerated + NVlink HPC). Just don't put that MHz beast in a far too small 1U cage. :-)

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