AMD's Radeon HD 5870: Bringing About the Next Generation Of GPUs
by Ryan Smith on September 23, 2009 9:00 AM EST- Posted in
- GPUs
AA Image Quality & Performance
With HL2 unsuitable for use in assessing image quality, we will be using Crysis: Warhead for the task. Warhead has a great deal of foliage in parts of the game which creates an immense amount of aliasing, and along with the geometry of local objects forms a good test for anti-aliasing quality. Look in particular at the leaves both to the left and through the windshield, along with aliasing along the frame, windows, and mirror of the vehicle. We’d also like to note that since AMD’s SSAA modes do not work in DX10, this is done in DX9 mode instead.
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AMD Radeon HD 5870
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AMD Radeon HD 4870
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NVIDIA GTX 280
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| No AA | ||
| 2X MSAA | ||
| 4X MSAA | ||
| 8X MSAA | ||
| 2X MSAA +AAA | 2X MSAA +AAA | 2X MSAA + SSTr |
| 4X MSAA +AAA | 4X MSAA +AAA | 4X MSAA + SSTr |
| 8X MSAA +AAA | 8X MSAA +AAA | 8X MSAA + SSTr |
| 2X SSAA | ||
| 4X SSAA | ||
| 8X SSAA |
From an image quality perspective, very little has changed for AMD compared to the 4890. With MSAA and AAA modes enabled the quality is virtually identical. And while things are not identical when flipping between vendors (for whatever reason the sky brightness differs), the resulting image quality is still basically the same.
For AMD, the downside to this IQ test is that SSAA fails to break away from MSAA + AAA. We’ve previously established that SSAA is a superior (albeit brute force) method of anti-aliasing, but we have been unable to find any scene in any game that succinctly proves it. Shader aliasing should be the biggest difference, but in practice we can’t find any such aliasing in a DX9 game that would be obvious. Nor is Crysis Warhead benefitting from the extra texture sampling here.
From our testing, we’re left with the impression that for a MSAA + AAA (or MSAA + SSTr for NVIDIA) is just as good as SSAA for all practical purposes. Much as with the anisotropic filtering situation we know through technological proof that there is better method, but it just isn’t making a noticeable difference here. If nothing else this is good from a performance standpoint, as MSAA + AAA is not nearly as hard on performance as outright SSAA is. Perhaps SSAA is better suited for older games, particularly those locked at lower resolutions?
For our performance data, we have two cases. We will first look at HL2 on only the 5870, which we ran before realizing the quality problem with Source-engine games. We believe that the performance data is still correct in spite of the visual bug, and while we’re not going to use it as our only data, we will use it as an example of AA performance in an older title.
As a testament to the rendering power of the 5870, even at 2560x1600 and 8x SSAA, we still get a just-playable framerate on HL2. To put things in perspective, with 8x SSAA the game is being rendered at approximately 32MP, well over the size of even the largest possible single-card Eyefinity display.
Our second, larger performance test is Crysis: Warhead. Here we are testing the game on DX9 mode again at a resolution of 1920x1200. Since this is a look at the impact of AA on various architectures, we will limit this test to the 5870, the GTX 280, and the Radeon HD 4890. Our interest here is in performance relative to no anti-aliasing, and whether different architectures lose the same amount of performance or not.
Starting with the 5870, moving from 0x AA to 4x MSAA only incurs a 20% drop in performance, while 8x MSAA increases that drop to 35%, or 80% of the 4x MSAA performance. Interestingly, in spite of the heavy foliage in the scene, Adaptive AA has virtually no performance hit over regular MSAA, coming in at virtually the same results. SSAA is of course the big loser here, quickly dropping to unplayable levels. As we discussed earlier, the quality of SSAA is no better than MSAA + AAA here.
Moving on, we have the 4890. While the overall performance is lower, interestingly enough the drop in performance from MSAA is not quite as much, at only 17% for 4x MSAA and 25% for 8x MSAA. This makes the performance of 8x MSAA relative to 4x MSAA 92%. Once again the performance hit from enabling AAA is miniscule, at roughly 1 FPS.
Finally we have the GTX 280. The drop in performance here is in line with that of the 5870; 20% for 4x MSAA, 36% for 8x MSAA, with 8x MSAA offering 80% of the performance. Even enabling supersample transparency AA only knocks off 1 FPS, just like AAA under the 5870.
What this leaves us with are very curious results. On a percentage basis the 5870 is no better than the GTX 280, which isn’t an irrational thing to see, but it does worse than the 4890. At this point we don’t have a good explanation for the difference; perhaps it’s a product of early drivers or the early BIOS? It’s something that we’ll need to investigate at a later date.
Wrapping things up, as we discussed earlier AMD has been pitching the idea of better 8x MSAA performance in the 5870 compared to the 4800 series due to the extra cache. Although from a practical perspective we’re not sold on the idea that 8x MSAA is a big enough improvement to justify any performance hit, we can put to rest the idea that the 5870 is any better at 8x MSAA than prior cards. At least in Crysis: Warhead, we’re not seeing it.
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mapesdhs - Saturday, September 26, 2009 - link
> That is quite all right, you fellas make sure to read it all, ...
But that's the thing S.D., I pretty much don't read any of it. :D (does
anyone?) First sentence only, then move on.
Ian.
SiliconDoc - Monday, September 28, 2009 - link
Oh, ha ha, another lowlife smart aleck.One has to wonder if you do as you say, and only read the first sentence, and move on, why you would care what I've typed, since you cannot imagine anyone does anything different. Heck you shouldn't even notice this, right liar ?
Yes, another liar, not amazing, not at all.
No need to modify or delete the sentence prior to this JaredWalton, smarty pants insulter won't read it, but I'm sure you can't resist, for "convenience's" sake of course.
Oh, I don't have to bring anything up on topic at all, because neither did lowlife skum not reading, he just got his nose awfully browner.
JarredWalton - Friday, September 25, 2009 - link
Very happy to have everyone here convinced you don't know what you're talking about? That's the only "truth" you've brought to this party. Marketing generally wants reputable people to promote a product - the "every man" approach. Funny that we don't see crazy people espousing products on TV (well, excepting stuff like Sham Wow!)Being crazy like you are in this thread only cements your status as someone who doesn't have a firm grip on reality - someone that can't be trusted. Thanks again for clearing that up so thoroughly.
I am very happy about it as well! :-D
erple2 - Tuesday, September 29, 2009 - link
Yeah, but that "Sham Wow" product works like a freakin' charm...http://www.popularmechanics.com/blogs/home_journal...">http://www.popularmechanics.com/blogs/home_journal...
SiliconDoc - Wednesday, September 30, 2009 - link
Im' sure you spend your time drooling in front of a TV after you spank your joystick for fps, so know all about wacky commercials you have memorized, and besides, it's a pathetic, all you have left insult, off topic, who cares, pure hatred, no real response, and the 5870 double epic fail IS THE HOTTEST ATI CARD OF ALL TIME!erple2 - Wednesday, September 30, 2009 - link
What's with the personal attacks? Does that mean that you concede defeat?Meh, you've no more credibility. Chill out.
SiliconDoc - Friday, September 25, 2009 - link
Yeah, now down to insults, since you lost everything else.Let's have your claimed specialty outlined here in context, let's have you come clean on LAPTOP GRAPHICS, and spread the truth about how NVIDIA is so far ahead and has been for quite some time, that it's a JOKE to buy a gaming laptop with ATI graphics on board.
Come on mmister!
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Now that is REALLY FUNNY ! You grabbed your arrogant unscrupulous self and proclaimed your fairness, but picked a spot where ati is completely EPIC FAIL, and NVIDIA is 1000% the only way to go, PERIOD, and left that MAJOR slap in the face high and dry.
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Great job, yeah, you're the "sane one".
LOL
dieselcat18 - Saturday, October 3, 2009 - link
Nvidia fan-boy, troll, loser....take your gforce cards and go home...we can now all see how terrible ATi is thanks you ...so I really don't understand why people are beating down their doors for the 5800 series, just like people did for the 4800 and 3800 cards. I guess Nvidia fan-boy trolls like you have only one thing left to do and that's complain and cry like the itty-bitty babies that some of you are about the competition that's beating you like a drum.....so you just wait for your 300 series cards to be released (can't wait to see how many of those are available) so you can pay the overpriced premiums that Nvidia will be charging AGAIN !...hahaha...just like all that re-badging BS they pulled with the 9800 and 200 cards...what a joke !.. Oh my, I must say you have me in a mood and the ironic thing is I do like Nvidia as much as ATi, I currently own and use both. I just can't stand fools like you who spout nothing but mindless crap while waving your team flag (my card is better than your's..WhaaWhaaWhaa)...just take yourself along with your worthless opinions and slide back under that slimly rock you came from.JarredWalton - Friday, September 25, 2009 - link
You've been insulting in this whole thread, so don't go crying to mamma about someone pointing that out. I did go and delete the posts from the person calling you gay and suggesting you should die in various ways, because as bad as you've been you haven't stooped quite that low (yet).Laptop issues with ATI... you mean http://www.anandtech.com/mobile/showdoc.aspx?i=356...">like this. Granted, I gave them a chance to address the issues. They failed and my full article on the various Clevo high-end notebooks will make it quite clear how far ahead NVIDIA is in the mobile sector right now.
"Fair" is treating both sides objectively. ATI has major problems with getting updated graphics drivers out on mobile products, and that's horrible. On the desktop, they don't have such issues for the most part. Yeah, you might have to wait a month or so for a driver update to fix the latest hot release and add CrossFire support... but you have to do the exact same thing for NVIDIA with about the same frequency. Only SLI and CF setups really need the regular driver updates, and in many cases the latest 18x and 19x NVIDIA drivers are slower than 16x and 17x on games that are older than six months.
Fair is also looking at these results and saying, "gee, I can get a 5870 for $400 (or $360 if you wait a few weeks for supply to bolster up), and that same card has no CrossFire or SLI wonkiness and costs less than the GTX 295 and 4870X2. Okay, 4870X2 and GTX 295 beat it in raw performance in some cases, but I don't think there's a single game where you can say one HD 5870 offers less than acceptable performance at 2560x1600, and I can guarantee there are titles that still have issues with SLI and CrossFire. (Yeah, you need to turn down some details in Crysis to get acceptable performance, but that's true of anything other than the top SLI and CF configs.) I would be more than happy to give up a bit of performance to avoid dealing with the whole multi-GPU ordeal. Why don't you tell us how innovative and awesome tri-SLI and quad-SLI are while you're at it?
At present, you have contributed more than 20% of the comments to this article, and not a single one has been anything but trolling. Screaming and yelling, insulting others, lying and making stuff up, all in support of a company that is just like any other big company. We don't ban accounts often, but you've more than warranted such action.
SiliconDoc - Friday, September 25, 2009 - link
I think it is more than absolutely clear, that in fact, I said my peace, my first post, and was absolutely attacked. I didn't attack, I got attacked, and in fact you have done plenty of attacking as well.I have also provided links, to back up my assertions and counter arguments, added the text for easy viewing, and pointed out in very specific detail whay issues with bias I had and why.
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Now you've claimed "all I've done is post FUD".
It is nothing short of amazing for you to even posit that, however I can certainly understand anyone pointing out the obvious bias problems (in the article no less) is "on thin ice", and after getting attacked, is solely blamed for "no facts".
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I certainly won't disagree that the 5870 is a good value as appearing if especially if you don't like to deal with 2 cards or 2 cores.
But my posts never claimed otherwise. I first claimed it was not as good as wanted, was disappointing, and therefore was not the end of what ati had in store.
Since I have posted on the 5890, which will in fact be 512 bit.
Now, you don't like losing your points, or someone adept enough, smart enough, and accurate enough to counter them.
Sorry about that, and sorry that I won't just lay down, as more heaps are shovelled my way.
You skip my actual points, and go some other tangent.
1. PhysX is an advantage and best implementation so far.
your response: "It sucks because only 2 games ar available"
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Is that correct for you to do ? Is it not the very best so far ? Yes, it is in fact.
I have remained factual and reasonable, and glad enough to throw back when I'm attacked.
But the fact remains, I have made absolutely solid 100% poijnts no matter how many times you claim " lying and making stuff up, "
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Yet of course, what I just said about NVIDIA and laptp chips, you agreed with. So accoring to your own characterization (quite unfair), all you do is scream and lie, too.
Just wonderful.
The GT300 is going to blow this 5870 away - the stats themselves show it, and betting otherwise is a bad joke, and if sense is still about, you know it as well.