Next Up: NVIDIA's G80

NVIDIA has been more tight-lipped about their underlying architecture, but we will infer as much as possible from the block diagrams we've seen and conversations we've had.

The G80 shader core is a little different from the R600. It is built on eight SIMD units each containing 16 SPs. The SIMD instructions are not VLIW, but single scalar instructions, and each SP within a SIMD unit executes that instruction on a different thread. While groups of 16 SPs share resources, NVIDIA's compiler doesn't need to build VLIW instructions to schedule out any of these SPs and it would be quite difficult to create dependencies between SPs because they are running different threads.

The bottom line here is that up to eight distinct shader operations are running across 128 threads at one time. This means we could have 128 threads all complete a scalar operation every clock, or we could have 128 threads all complete a 4-wide vector operation one component at a time over four clocks.

On NVIDIA hardware, vertex threads are assigned to SIMD units in blocks of 16, while geometry and pixel threads are assigned in blocks of 32 (16 threads over two clocks). With smaller blocks, we see better branch performance but worse cache or prefetch utilization than we would with a more coarsely grained approach.

This implementation also means that we don't have to worry about dependencies in the shader code. Of course, it is also the case that we can't extract parallelism from the shader code itself. But the advantage gives us a steady rate of 128 operations per clock. This can actually go up in some special cases, but it shouldn't go lower under normal circumstances.

Comparing Shader Architectures: R600 vs. G80

The key to the architecture comparison is to realize that nothing is straight up apples to apples here. We need to look at how much work can be done per clock, how much work is likely to be done per clock, and how much work we can get done per unit time.

First, G80 can process more threads in parallel: 128 as opposed to R600's 64. Performing work on more threads at a time is one very good way of extracting overall parallelism from the problem of graphics. There are millions of pixels in every frame that need to be processed, and if we had hardware large enough we could process them all at once.

However, more work (up to 5x) is potentially getting done on each of those 64 threads than on NVIDIA's 128 threads. This is because R600 can execute up to five parallel operations per thread while NVIDIA hardware is only able to handle one operation at a time per SP (in most cases). But maximizing throughput on the AMD hardware will be much more difficult, and we won't always see peak performance from real code. On the best case level, R600 is able to do 2.5x the work of G80 per clock (320 operations on R600 and 128 on G80). Worst case for code dependency on both architectures gives the G80 a 2x advantage over R600 per clock (64 operations on R600 with 128 on G80).

The real difference is in where parallelism is extracted. Both architectures make use of the fact that threads are independent of each other by using multiple SIMD units. While NVIDIA focused on maximizing parallelism in this area of graphics, AMD decided to try to extract parallelism inside the instruction stream by using a VLIW approach. AMD's average case will be different depending on the code running, though so many operations are vector based, high utilization can generally be expected.

However, even if we expect high utilization on AMD hardware, the fact remains that G80 has a large clock speed advantage. With the shader core on G80 pushed up to 1.5 GHz, we could still see some cases where R600 is faster, but the majority of the time G80 should be able to best R600 on a pure compute basis.

This overview still isn't the bottom line in performance. Efficient latency hiding, good scheduling, high cache utilization, high availability of texture data, good branching, and fast and efficient Z/stencil and color processing all contribute as well.  Where possible, let's explore those areas a bit more.

Stream Processor Implementation Texturing, Caches and Memory
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  • dragonsqrrl - Thursday, August 25, 2011 - link

    You forgot c).

    -if you're an ATI fanboy
  • vijay333 - Monday, May 14, 2007 - link

    http://www.randomhouse.com/wotd/index.pperl?date=1...">http://www.randomhouse.com/wotd/index.pperl?date=1...

    "the expression to call a spade a spade is thousands of years old and etymologically has nothing whatsoever to do with any racial sentiment."
  • strikeback03 - Wednesday, May 16, 2007 - link

    What about in Euchre, where a spade can be a club (and vice versa)?
  • johnsonx - Monday, May 14, 2007 - link

    Just wait until AT refers to AMD's marketing budget as 'niggardly'...
  • bldckstark - Monday, May 14, 2007 - link

    What do shovels have to do with race?
  • Stan11003 - Monday, May 14, 2007 - link

    My big hope out all of this that the ATI part forces the Nvidia parts lower so I can use my upgrade option from EVGA to get a nice 8800 GTX instead of my 8800 GTS ACS3 320. However with a quad core and a decent 2GB I have no gaming issues at all. I play at 1600x1200(when that become a low rez?) and everything is butter smooth. Without newer titles all this hardware is a waist anyways.
  • Gul Westfale - Monday, May 14, 2007 - link

    the article says that the part is not a failure, but i disagree. i switched from a radeon 1950pro to an nvidia geforce 8800GTS 320MB about a mont ago, and i paid only $350US for it. now i see that it still outperforms the new 2900...

    one of my friends wanted to wait to buy a new card, he said he hoped that the ATI part was going to be faster. now he says he will just buy the 8800GTS 320, since ATI have failed.

    if they can bring out a part that competes well with the 8800GTS and price it similarly or lower then it would be worth buying, but until then i will stick with nvidia. better performance, better price, and better drivers... why would anyone buy the ATI card now?
  • ncage - Monday, May 14, 2007 - link

    My conclusion is to wait. All of the recent GPU do great with dx9...the question is how will they do with dx10? I think its best to wait for dx10 titles to come out. I think crysis would be a PERFECT test.
  • wingless - Monday, May 14, 2007 - link

    I agree with you. Crysis is going to be the benchmark for these DX10 cards. Its hard to tell both Nvidia and AMD's DX10 performance with these current, first generation DX10 titles (most of which have a DX9 version) because they don't fully take advantage of all the power on both the G80 or R600 yet. Its true that Crysis will have a DX9 version as well but the developer stated there are some big differences in code. I'm an Nvidia fanboy but I'm disappointed with the Pure Video and HDMI support on the 8800 series cards. ATI got this worked out with their great AVIVO and their nice HDMI implementation but for now Nvidia is still the performance champ with "simpler" hardware. The G80 and R600 continue the traditions of their manufacturers. Nvidia has always been about raw power and all out speed with few bells and whistles. ATI is all about refinement, bells and whistles, innovations, and unproven new methods which may make or break them.

    All I really want to wait for is to see how developers embrace CUDA or ATI's setup for PHYSICS PROCESSING! Both companies seem to have well thought out methods to do physics and I cant wait to see that showdown. AGEIA and HAVOK need to hop on-board and get some software support for all this good hardware potential they have to play with. Physics is the next big gimmick and you know how much we all love gimmicks (just like good 'ole 3D acceleration 10 years ago).
  • poohbear - Monday, May 14, 2007 - link

    they dont make a profit from high end parts that's why they're not bothering w/ it? that's AMD's story? so why bother having an FX line w/ their cpus?

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