Fundamental Windows 10 Issues: Priority and Focus

In a normal scenario the expected running of software on a computer is that all cores are equal, such that any thread can go anywhere and expect the same performance. As we’ve already discussed, the new Alder Lake design of performance cores and efficiency cores means that not everything is equal, and the system has to know where to put what workload for maximum effect.

To this end, Intel created Thread Director, which acts as the ultimate information depot for what is happening on the CPU. It knows what threads are where, what each of the cores can do, how compute heavy or memory heavy each thread is, and where all the thermal hot spots and voltages mix in. With that information, it sends data to the operating system about how the threads are operating, with suggestions of actions to perform, or which threads can be promoted/demoted in the event of something new coming in. The operating system scheduler is then the ring master, combining the Thread Director information with the information it has about the user – what software is in the foreground, what threads are tagged as low priority, and then it’s the operating system that actually orchestrates the whole process.

Intel has said that Windows 11 does all of this. The only thing Windows 10 doesn’t have is insight into the efficiency of the cores on the CPU. It assumes the efficiency is equal, but the performance differs – so instead of ‘performance vs efficiency’ cores, Windows 10 sees it more as ‘high performance vs low performance’. Intel says the net result of this will be seen only in run-to-run variation: there’s more of a chance of a thread spending some time on the low performance cores before being moved to high performance, and so anyone benchmarking multiple runs will see more variation on Windows 10 than Windows 11. But ultimately, the peak performance should be identical.

However, there are a couple of flaws.

At Intel’s Innovation event last week, we learned that the operating system will de-emphasise any workload that is not in user focus. For an office workload, or a mobile workload, this makes sense – if you’re in Excel, for example, you want Excel to be on the performance cores and those 60 chrome tabs you have open are all considered background tasks for the efficiency cores. The same with email, Netflix, or video games – what you are using there and then matters most, and everything else doesn’t really need the CPU.

However, this breaks down when it comes to more professional workflows. Intel gave an example of a content creator, exporting a video, and while that was processing going to edit some images. This puts the video export on the efficiency cores, while the image editor gets the performance cores. In my experience, the limiting factor in that scenario is the video export, not the image editor – what should take a unit of time on the P-cores now suddenly takes 2-3x on the E-cores while I’m doing something else. This extends to anyone who multi-tasks during a heavy workload, such as programmers waiting for the latest compile. Under this philosophy, the user would have to keep the important window in focus at all times. Beyond this, any software that spawns heavy compute threads in the background, without the potential for focus, would also be placed on the E-cores.

Personally, I think this is a crazy way to do things, especially on a desktop. Intel tells me there are three ways to stop this behaviour:

  1. Running dual monitors stops it
  2. Changing Windows Power Plan from Balanced to High Performance stops it
  3. There’s an option in the BIOS that, when enabled, means the Scroll Lock can be used to disable/park the E-cores, meaning nothing will be scheduled on them when the Scroll Lock is active.

(For those that are interested in Alder Lake confusing some DRM packages like Denuvo, #3 can also be used in that instance to play older games.)

For users that only have one window open at a time, or aren’t relying on any serious all-core time-critical workload, it won’t really affect them. But for anyone else, it’s a bit of a problem. But the problems don’t stop there, at least for Windows 10.

Knowing my luck by the time this review goes out it might be fixed, but:

Windows 10 also uses the threads in-OS priority as a guide for core scheduling. For any users that have played around with the task manager, there is an option to give a program a priority: Realtime, High, Above Normal, Normal, Below Normal, or Idle. The default is Normal. Behind the scenes this is actually a number from 0 to 31, where Normal is 8.

Some software will naturally give itself a lower priority, usually a 7 (below normal), as an indication to the operating system of either ‘I’m not important’ or ‘I’m a heavy workload and I want the user to still have a responsive system’. This second reason is an issue on Windows 10, as with Alder Lake it will schedule the workload on the E-cores. So even if it is a heavy workload, moving to the E-cores will slow it down, compared to simply being across all cores but at a lower priority. This is regardless of whether the program is in focus or not.

Of the normal benchmarks we run, this issue flared up mainly with the rendering tasks like CineBench, Corona, POV-Ray, but also happened with yCruncher and Keyshot (a visualization tool). In speaking to others, it appears that sometimes Chrome has a similar issue. The only way to fix these programs was to go into task manager and either (a) change the thread priority to Normal or higher, or (b) change the thread affinity to only P-cores. Software such as Project Lasso can be used to make sure that every time these programs are loaded, the priority is bumped up to normal.

Intel Disabled AVX-512, but Not Really Power: P-Core vs E-Core, Win10 vs Win11
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  • Wrs - Saturday, November 6, 2021 - link

    Nah, they just weren't that competitive. Athlon64 was decent (lot of credit to Jim Keller) but didn't let AMD take massive advantage of Intel's weakness during the Pentium 4 era because AMD fabs were capacity limited. Once Conroe came out mid 2006 the margins dried up rapidly and AMD had no good response and suffered a talent exodus. It's true Intel made it worse with exclusivity bonuses, but I think AMD's spiral toward selling their fabs would have happened anyway. No way they were going to catch up with tick-tock and Intel's wallet.
  • GeoffreyA - Monday, November 8, 2021 - link

    I've always felt the K10 wasn't aggressive enough, owing to AMD not having factored Conroe into their equations when K10 was designed. Then, like startled folk, they tried to take back the lead by a drastic departure in the form of Bulldozer; and that, as we know, sank them into the ditch. Nonetheless, I'm glad they went through the pain of Bulldozer: Zen wouldn't have been as good otherwise.
  • mode_13h - Tuesday, November 9, 2021 - link

    > FX series was as bad as it was for a couple of reasons

    I thought I also heard they switched from full-custom layout to ASIC flow (maybe for the sake of APUs?). If so, that definitely left some performance on the table.
  • bunnyfubbles - Thursday, November 4, 2021 - link

    3D v-cache will be out before Zen 4 and should help close the gap if not regain the overall lead on the high end. The problem for AMD is the competition below the i9 vs R9 realm, where the E cores really pull more than their weight and help the i9 compete with the R9s in multi, but for the i5s and i7s vs their R5 and R7 counterparts, its even-Steven with performance cores, then you have the E cores as the trump card.
  • MDD1963 - Thursday, November 4, 2021 - link

    If AMD gains an averge of ~10% in gaming FPS with the 3D cache onslaught, that should put them right back near the top...certainly much closer to the 12900K....
  • geoxile - Thursday, November 4, 2021 - link

    15% on average. 25% at the highest. Intel really should have offered a 16 P-core die for desktop smdh, classic intel blunder
  • Spunjji - Friday, November 5, 2021 - link

    That would be a hell of a large die and necessitate a total redesign of the on-chip fabric. I don't think it would really make any sense at all.
  • RSAUser - Monday, November 8, 2021 - link

    12900K is already huge, each performance core is the size of about 4 E cores, going 16C P-Core would probably mean a 70% die size increase, and then you run into core to core communication issues, AMD got around it with infinity fabric but that's why you have the higher latency access between cores in different core complexes and Intel gives a more consistent access time on higher end products. Intel's current cores are mosly ringbus, so travel from one core to the next, getting to 16 doesn't scale well, they used a mesh topology in some Skylake CPU's, that latency was too high and hampered performance badly, you'd run into that same issue with 16C.
    That's without checking into yield, getting 16C on one wafer that are all perfectly clocking high is going to be a very, very rare chip; AMD gets around it using the core complexes (CX) of 4 cores each, together into a CCD (core chiplet die) and then in Zen 3 (5000 series) is supposedly 8C CCX, which makes rare chips 8C if full ccx works well, else 6C if 2 can't make it turns into a 5600X.
  • StevoLincolnite - Friday, November 5, 2021 - link

    AMD has an answer before Zen 4.

    And that is Zen 3 with V-Cache.
  • Spunjji - Friday, November 5, 2021 - link

    "This is their Zen 1 moment"
    Indeed!

    "at a lower price"
    Not really, if you take platform into account (and you have to!)

    "Zen 4 isnt even competing with Alder Lake, Raptor Lake is rumored to be out before Zen 4"
    Potentially, but Zen 4 is a bigger jump from Zen 3 than Raptor is predicted to be from Alder. Raptor will have more E cores but it's on the same process, so it's likely to offer better perf/watt in multithreading but unlikely to increase overall performance substantially (unless they allow maximum power draw to increase).

    "AMD has really screwed up with their launch cycle"
    Not really? They're still competitive in both price/performance (accounting for platform cost) and perf/watt. Zen 3D should shore up that position well enough.

    "Intel is truly back"
    Yup!

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