Intel NUC8i7HVK (Hades Canyon) Gaming Performance - A Second Look
by Ganesh T S on May 14, 2018 8:01 AM ESTConcluding Remarks
The preceding pages presented the performance of the NUC8i7HVK (Hades Canyon) NUC in select modern games. The new games are part of our updated gaming benchmarks suite that we plan to use for evaluation of mini-PCs for the next couple of years. We also presented results from the processing of the benchmarks on some modern small-form factor gaming systems.
Fundamentally, nothing much changes in terms of our previous conclusions regarding the gaming prowess of the Hades Canyon NUC. It roughly slots in-between the GTX 960 and GTX 980 in graphics performance. In GPU-limited cases, it can barely touch the performance of the GTX 1060. However, in games such as Dota 2 (which are CPU-limited at most resolutions), the extra power budget available helps the Hades Canyon NUC to come out with very good performance numbers.
I do however have to mention my disappointment in Intel and AMD for their poorly thought out (if not bordering on deceptive) naming scheme for the Kaby Lake-G dGPU – the Radeon RX Vega M. As we’ve since found out and confirmed thanks to telling Linux driver commits, while Intel and AMD are calling this GPU a Vega, it doesn’t actually include any of the core features that make up the Vega GPU architecture. Features such as Rapid Packed Math, tiled rasterization, and support for Direct3D feature level 12_1 are all absent from Vega M. The only “Vega” feature is the HBM2 memory controller, which is very important for this product given the integrated nature of Kaby Lake-G, but also not a part of the core GPU architecture. Instead, the heart of Vega M appears to be Polaris, AMD’s previous GPU architecture, which itself was a minor update to their 2014 GCN 3 GPU architecture.
Which isn’t to say that the Vega M is a bad GPU. The performance we see in all of these benchmarks speaks volumes, and this is by far the most powerful x86 system-on-package processor available today – not to mention it’s way faster than Intel’s own iGPUs. And we can even understand why Intel and AMD would want to use a Polaris-based design for this product, as the development and integration time for this chip meant that they would want to work with proven hardware first (which is why this is Kaby Lake + Polaris rather than Coffee Lake + Vega). But still, it’s an odd scenario when the dGPU being used offers a lesser DirectX feature set than Intel’s own iGPU. And at the end of the day, I don’t see how calling this a Vega GPU benefitted anyone buying Hades Canyon or Kaby Lake-G in systems today. That said, Intel claims certain performance numbers for Kaby Lake-G, and, our evaluation of the Hades Canyon NUC with real-world gaming benchmarks backs up those claims.
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Macpoedel - Tuesday, May 15, 2018 - link
About the performance and value:You can't compare this to an 8th gen desktop i7, that's a 6c/12t part and the i7-8809G is a 4c/8t part, more comparable to a Core i7 7700. If you had to compare it to current gen desktop CPU's I would put it closer to a Core i5 8400/8500 than a Core i7 8700, and those are $100 cheaper. The boxed cooler also fits in a lot of small form factor cases, and it's not like Hades Canyon is that quiet that you'd have to compare it with a Noctua or Cryorig cooler. In idle it's probably extremely quiet (I have a NUC6CAYH, Celeron NUC, and I've never heard the fan, only faintly if I hold my ear right next to the exhaust), but under load not so much.
About resale value, I'll have to believe you on that one. Thing is that on the online used marketplaces I frequent (not eBay, I'm from Belgium), none are for sale right now, which makes me think that Skull Canyon wasn't very popular. I see some eBay entries, but also no used ones in my region, just 2 in the US. There are some new ones for sale in my area but it's no wonder they're trying to sell those for close to retail price. I doubt a used Skull Canyon sells for close to retail price though, the iGPU has aged a lot.
I'm hoping you're right though, I'm selling my NUC6CAYH at the moment. But those are still for sale and Intel has dropped the price by quite a bit (bought it for €170, but it costs €120 in a lot of places at the moment) so I probably won't sell it for much over half of what it cost me (at least I'll be able to sell the memory for about the same as what I paid for it and it's not like €80 to use a pc for a year is that much).
I replaced my NUC with a small form factor mini ITX self build pc, it has a volume of 7,1 l, around the same as an OG Xbox One and also around the same performance (Ryzen 5 2400G). So not that small, Hades Canyon is a lot smaller, but this fits my cabinet without issues. It's also less powerful than Hades Canyon, but it also cost me less than €500 (SFF PSU costs the same as regular PSU, I use AMD's boxed cooler, RAM is expensive but Hades Canyon needs that as well, wifi and bluetooth came with the motherboard and custom cabling wasn't necessary at all). About Thunderbolt 3, I just don't see a use case for that right now in a home theater setup. An external GPU maybe? But why pay for the Vega M then, you could get a cheaper, regular sized NUC with Thunderbolt 3 (the higher end current 7th gen NUCs have TB3). For your use case I don't really see why you'd need Hades Canyon either.
I will say, for the size there's nothing more powerful you can get.
close - Wednesday, May 16, 2018 - link
Don't look at resale value like that:- Buying at sale - this is not generally available.
- Selling for $50 less - that's 25% of the original (sale) price.
- Selling on eBay - chance plays a huge role there (I've seen sales where the better products sold for less without any apparent explanation other than "luck", timing).
Almost 6 years ago I got barely used (2 weeks of usage) top of the line ROG MB, top of the line 8 core CPU, and top of the line 16GB of RAM for under 300E. 2 years ago I got a 980Ti for 100E. I can probably sell them today for more. Sales and second hand market need more than one example to see the trend.
And going to eBay I'm not seeing the kind of resale value you are seeing. I'm seeing 3 year old barebones NUCs (5th gen) that went for 300E new at around 200E with RAM now. Take out the RAM and you dip below half the price after 3 years.
And the NUC6i7KYK is currently available new for 450-500E. It was 799E at launch (stabilized at 650E shortly after). Can't really find used offers but it can't go for more than 350E. That's about 50% of original price. That's not exceptional.
I honestly think the resale value you're painting heavily relies on exceptional sales and lots of luck on resale.
nerd1 - Thursday, May 17, 2018 - link
$1617 is A LOT of money - you can build a tiny gaming ITX system (i.e. using Dan A4 case) with i5-8400 and 1070 with that amount of money.YukaKun - Monday, May 14, 2018 - link
Would it be too dumb to add a "performance / liter" type of thing to put into context the form format for this little box and the performance it brings to the table (pun might be intended)?Cheers!
YukaKun - Monday, May 14, 2018 - link
**form factorIcehawk - Monday, May 14, 2018 - link
You are saying this is roughly a 970? I get triple your fps in FC5, for example, at 4K Ultra even when it was in my 3770k rig. I know there are thermal constraints but this is a huge gap in performance.lioncat55 - Monday, May 14, 2018 - link
That does not sound possible, triple the frame rate would be 48 fps, looking at desktop benchmarks for Farcry 5 at 4k Ultra has a 1080 at 41 fps and a Vega 64 at 46 fps.nathanddrews - Monday, May 14, 2018 - link
My 970 and 3570K @ 4.2GHz also gets triple the frame rate... at the menu screen. LOLwr3zzz - Monday, May 14, 2018 - link
I guess the target demo of these systems are intended for those who are either space or aesthetic constraint of a traditional HTPC form factor. For the former NUC seems serious lacking in value proposition and for the latter these units as stand just don't pass the living room eye test.HStewart - Monday, May 14, 2018 - link
I think the main target of the i870XG cpu module is for laptops and not desktops - but it can be used in HTPC form factor.. but keep in mind - where Intel aim its performance - between 1050 and 1060.It this article, the closest system had a 1060 GPU but a Six core factor.
I have found with my Dell XPS 15 2in1, that the CPU is quite fast one but so far I am not sure about the GPU.
I believe we not see the real potential of this kind of NUC - until Intel releases a version with Artic Sound GPU. Even though it does the job - I feel the AMD GPU is only temporary.