Foxconn Blood Rage - If Looks Could Kill (UPDATE)
by Rajinder Gill on January 2, 2009 6:00 AM EST- Posted in
- Motherboards
Maxing out
The final challenge was to strap a cascade to the CPU and see how far we could push things with the additional overhead sub-zero temps can provide. Those of you into this sort of thing will be happy to know that we found no cold bug bootup limits on the board itself. Nehalem processors are known to average bootup limits in the region of 50-80C. Our retail i920 processors (purchased from Scan UK and Tank Guys) will boot on this board as cold as our smaller cascade will go, which is -95C (sounds lucky at this point does'nt it?).
There is one huge caveat, though: although our i920 CPU boots all the way down to the limits of the cascade, overclocking it at sub-zero temps is another matter altogether. Anything over a reference BCLK of 166MHz on the 20X multiplier refuses to boot. We added a number of shims between the evaporator and CPU to increase the temperature delta to find where this situation begins to manifest. Our saved 195 BCLK x20 multiplier BIOS profile loads fine as long as the CPU is in the positive temperature region. Anything on the negative side and we're stuck at near board defaults for voltages.
The major obstacle for us was that we were limited to using "BIOS-boot only" overclocking. As we mentioned on page 2, the AEGIS panel and the last version of SetFSB did not work properly for us. Had AEGIS panel worked, we would have been able to tinker with voltages at the OS level perhaps providing us with enough room to manipulate the BCLK reference clock to favorable levels. BIOS voltages for the CPU and VTT/Uncore were raised and lowered in BIOS to see if we could get around any kind of current limiting at negative DTS readings; unfortunately, these attempts proved unsuccessful. What we ended up with as workable voltage put us in a worse position than when we were using water-cooling at ambient temps.
It seems we have an i920 processor with an odd cold bug, or perhaps we're seeing what could be some kind of power throttling due to a built-in CPU thermal condition breach. Nehalem monitors processor Vcore at all times and can make dynamic changes on-the-fly in an attempt to rectify temperatures that fall above or below predefined DTS thresholds. Still, this is another story altogether and not something we're blaming the board for just yet. Although we are beginning to see BIOS's on other boards that offer partial workarounds to some of these conditions. A hard modification will be required to the Blood Rage to overcome some fo the current throttling at the PWM end of things, and this is an avenue we will explore. Before doing that, we're going to try out a few more processors to double-check everything and report back in the full review.
After all that effort, it was back to water-cooling the processor, and we managed to get a clean boot at 200 BCLK on the 20-21X multiplier and run 3DMark06 along with several other benchmark programs and applications.
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We did manage to get the board to boot at 203 BCLK, but it seems our processor is too VTT hungry (at least on this current BIOS) to scale past this at voltages we'd deem being past intelligent for ambient benchmarking. The i920 series is hampered in this regard by Uncore and QPI MHz limits, although we did try lowering the multiplier/memory speed to work around this without success. Future tests will be compared against a retail Extreme i7-965 CPU to get a broader picture of motherboard capabilities.
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JarredWalton - Friday, January 2, 2009 - link
Well, 12GB would require 4GB DIMMs, which I don't think are in supply at all right now (if they even exist). I can find 4GB DDR2 DIMMs, but not DDR3.gemsurf - Friday, January 2, 2009 - link
It seems a waste of time to bother with motherboard articles on this site anymore. None of them are of a "finished" product and all have "nothing fatally wrong that can't be fixed with some bios updates" and "were hopefull fixes will be forthcoming"I thought you guys actually were starting to get it! All those incredible components and specs mean nothing if it doesn't produce a workable product in the end! So that promise of turning over a new leaf at Anands is still awaiting a "bios update" too?
It is way past time to call them what they are people! Crappy products not ready for release so don't buy them until they are!
We are you're constiuents, and we are the reason you can sell the ads here on Anands. We are who you need to "tell it like it is" to!
Many of us, like myself have been coming here since the geocities days because we have had great respect and trust in your efforts and opinions. That seems to have changed. If you want to be a beta test lab, then please change the business model and site name so we know what to expect.
jackylman - Friday, January 2, 2009 - link
They ARE telling it "like it is". This board, like several others, has great potential, but some quirks need to be worked out in the BIOS. This is an accurate reflection of the product that a consumer can buy today.One of the reasons I stopped coming to this site was because it had the tendency to use special versions of a product or BIOS that the consumer was never able to actually obtain, but reviewing an actual retail board remedies this.
If you're looking for a motherboard that has a perfect BIOS from day one of availability and never has any updates sans maybe some new CPU ID's, GOOD LUCK (and let me know when you find this magical mobo). The sad fact is that mobo manufacturers force consumers to do the beta testing, especially with new tech like the X58 chipset. IMHO, you can't rightfully blame anandtech.com for this.
gemsurf - Friday, January 2, 2009 - link
I understand what you are saying, but these boards seem to have more serious issues that do affect the everyday performance. I appreciate that there are always issues with boards and bios updates are a neccasary part of it.All I expect once again is for them to say "no, its not ready for prime time, or yes, it is ready for prime time!" Thats all!
yyrkoon - Sunday, January 4, 2009 - link
Guys, the whole point of article such as this is so *you* know what to expect from it. If you want a rock solid motherboard for a rock solid system THAT IS YOUR OWN RESPONSIBILITY.Read the reviews, and not just from this website, then go read the user reviews on newegg( and I do not care if you plan on buying from newegg or not ). Someone with half a brain should be able to figure out on their own what will work for them, or not. Do not expect someone else to do your homework for you.
Besides all this, I do not know what you all are getting so wound up about; this is after all a foxconn board, not exactly known for their reliability. If you want reliability, go with Gigabyte, MSI, whatever ( depending on the board/feature set ) and make sure to research your hardware . . .
Rajinder Gill - Friday, January 2, 2009 - link
This board has been on my test bench for three days. In that time I've done my level best to look at as many aspects of the board as I think the target audience will but it for on a whim. The fact that we are the only site highlighting the current BIOS inadequacies says something in itself. There was no way we could post a complete review without a partial look in the time at hand.The BIOS this board was tested with is current and what you'll get - we've highlighted the flaws we've found in those 3 days of testing. It takes copious hours to compile the 'little' data you see here. In that time we tested all the peripherals a basic system can provide - with the others to be covered over the three week period. What would you rather have? A full review in 2 weeks time - with a newer BIOS on the shelf or an honest look at what's here right now, albeit with limited testing?
DaveLessnau - Friday, January 2, 2009 - link
The thing is, it doesn't MATTER how pretty the board is or how kewl its specs are if the darn thing will not "cold or stop-cycle-boot without pressing the "Force Reset" button." As soon as you found this, you should have just stopped the review process and written it up with the headline: "Unable to review since it won't boot-- DO NOT BUY." And that's it. Instead, you don't even mention it until the 3rd page of the review (after fawning over the board for the first two pages). I'm sorry that you wasted "3 days of testing." But, that's your problem. You shouldn't foist it off onto your audience as some way to recover sunk costs. The board fails. Period. Anything else is moot. Do yourself and your audience a favor and just say that.7Enigma - Saturday, January 3, 2009 - link
Agreed. Gross faults like not being able to boot without pushing the forced reset button (my computer like many people's is under my desk in an enclosed space; I would laugh at anyone that asked me to crawl under there, open the case, and push a button routinely until they can get a bios fix), ports/features that don't work, and other major issues are not going to help the consumer and ultimately not help the manufacturers.Unfortunately we don't have the voice to tell these manufacturers to get their acts together. We come off simply as anti-fanboys, or anecdotal evidence at best. You and this site have the ability to directly affect sales and quality. This article should have been 1 page. Put the picture of the board with the name, and an X through it. Mention it has critical faults that are currently not fixed in the RETAIL available board selling for >$300 USD, and post it up on the main page.
And do it for the next one, and the next one, until the companies get the idea that we are not beta testers. Can you imagine if the hardware industry becomes the game industry?
bob4432 - Saturday, January 3, 2009 - link
this b.s. is why i will never buy the newest gen chip/chipset/m/b/anything - i can not be a beta tester. i have serious back issues - both neuromuscular and structural - i build my machines, get them stable and they sit next to my desk for ~6mos at which time i blow them out w/ compressed air. even if i wanted to subject myself to constant frustration and the pain i would experience for crawling next to my machine and hitting a little button all the time, i wouldn't do it because i spent ~$300 on a m/b. for that kind of $$$ it should work out of the box the way the box says it will.i would much rather have a mature p35/p45 m/b for $80-$100 and have it be ultra stable and get 90%+ of the performance of this board and save the frustration for you guys.
why don't you guys put up a pass/fail on the first page? don't ooh and ahhh over it because it may look cool to you but run like sh!t - i am not a all show no go kind of person, in fact the opposite. i don't get wet from some black and red anodized/painted/dyed heatsinks/slots and board colors....
Rajinder Gill - Saturday, January 3, 2009 - link
Fact is there are users without any problems, go check the Foxconn Support forums or ask their staff. Making a blanket statement like that would require the board to be bad in all situations - when it is clearly not. I'm not going to do that unless I know for sure, so what you'll get from me is a maybe. In the end I had to leave it as a possible and made the notification which it's clear you all understand. Initial reaction from users and support at Foxconn is that they're looking at the PSU's we used but cannot recreate it.