Who Controls the User Experience? AMD’s Carrizo Thoroughly Tested
by Ian Cutress on February 4, 2016 8:00 AM EST#3 The Toshiba Satellite E45DW-C4210 (Carrizo, FX-8800P)
If E45DW-C4210 comes in as a mouthful relevant to very few people, you are probably right, so we’ll just refer to it as the Toshiba Satellite from here on in. Having a Satellite for testing this piece was somewhat amusing, given I had recently bought one for my grandparents and upgraded it (there’s a separate mini-review of that coming later), and wasn’t sure if what I had found on my grandparents' model would also be found here.
| Toshiba Satellite E45DW-C4210 (Carrizo) Specifications | |
| Size and Resolution | 14-inch, 1366x768 TN with Touch |
| Processor | AMD FX-8800P Dual module, 4 threads 2.1 GHz Base Frequency 3.4 GHz Turbo Frequency |
| Graphics | Integrated R7 512 Shader Cores 800 MHz maximum frequency GCN 1.2 |
| TDP | 15W |
| Memory | 8 GB in Single Channel Operation 1 x 8GB at DDR3L-1600 C11 1 SO-DIMM Slot Only |
| Storage | 750GB Toshiba HDD |
| Battery Size | 45.298 Wh 3 cell Li-Ion design |
| WiFi | Realtek 8821AE 802.11ac 1x1 |
| Optical Drive | No |
| Dimensions | 13.3 x 9.3 x 0.83-inch 337.4 x 235.0 x 21.05 mm |
| Weight | From 4.5 lbs (2.05 kg) |
| Webcam | 1280x720 |
| Other Features | Memory Card Reader HDMI 2 x USB 3.0 + 1 x USB 2.0 |
| Operating System | Windows 10 Home |
This model of Satellite gets the top-end FX Carrizo processor, the FX-8800P, which is a dual module/quad core design with a 2.1 GHz base frequency but a 3.4 GHz turbo frequency. Because the FX line still exists in AMD’s mobile processors, it means it gets top tier graphics as well, which for integrated graphics means 512 streaming processors running at 800 MHz. This is pretty much the top end AMD integrated graphics configuration that anyone can buy, save a pre-overclocked system. To continue with the plus points in the hardware, the Toshiba was also fitted with a Realtek 8821AE Wi-Fi card which also follows the 802.11ac M.2 standard as described in the 745 G3 but this is a single stream version, which limits 802.11ac benefits such as beam forming.
Then, the downsides begin, or where Toshiba saved some money. The display is a pretty bad 1366x768 TN panel that didn’t want to play ball with our display testing equipment, but was surprisingly touch enabled which made things better when you used the ‘Devil’s Trackpad’. With no offence intended towards Toshiba, I seriously wrote that in my notes while I was testing, and that isn’t a good thing. The nearest thing to this trackpad would be the ‘off’ position. I’m not sure if it was a bad sensor, a poor sensor, something with the coating or what, but one of the worst things a laptop can do when being tested is when the tester wants to throw it across the room. The solution would be to insert a mouse, forget about it, and then 'remember how much you saved'. Unfortunately that race to the bottom on trackpads ends up a negative feedback loop for all concerned.
On the storage side, a combination 8GB of memory (single channel DDR3L-1600, naturally) and a 750 GB mechanical hard disk left the model with few plus points aside from the top end processor.
The Design
So firstly, the design of this Satellite one is more towards brushed metal for a sleeker look.
Functionally, there are a number of good and bad points to list. Despite the brushed metal finish on the top, the design is actually mostly plastic, with two vents at the rear for airflow. The hinge is also a 360º hinge as part of the Radius range.
One of these is an intake and the other is the exhaust, which at least keeps all the warm air out of the back of the laptop, although anyone using the laptop on their lap might be able to feel it depending on the workload. If the warning sticker is anything to go by:
CAUTION!
PC BASE CAN BECOME HOT!
AVOID PROLONGED CONTACT
TO PREVENT HEAT INJURY TO SKIN
You have to wonder – is that an AMD problem due to heat generation, or a Toshiba problem due to bad heat soak of plastic design? Either way, there are other 15W devices that don’t have these warnings.
The sides have two USB 3.0 ports, a HDMI port, the Kensington lock port, a USB 2.0 port, audio ports, a volume rocker, a power connector and a specific button to enter Tile Mode in windows.
The brushed metal finish is also on the cover, and again this was an AMD shelf model featuring a few scrapes but nothing too noticeable at a quick glance.
The audio arrangement is provided by Harman/Kardon, and the keyboard uses equal sized separate buttons for the arrow keys as well as the regular delete/home/end set. There are no quick buttons for mute or airplane mode however.
The trackpad on the specific device we tested was absolutely terrible. The only practical way to use this laptop was to use a mouse.
On the display side of things, as noted above for some reason this unit would not get along with our colorimeter, crashing each time we tried to take a reading. The 45.298 Wh battery gave the following charge profile:
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ncsaephanh - Monday, February 8, 2016 - link
Can you guys do a podcast on this article? Would love to hear you guys discuss it and also answer questions/comments on the article.ET - Monday, February 8, 2016 - link
Nice to see a Carrizo article finally, although it's rather disappointing, for example because only single channel was tested.You talked about solutions, here's how I see what AMD and publications like Anandtech need to do (I'm using Carrizo as an example, but it's a lesson for the future):
AMD: When Carrizo is available in a laptop, send one to Anandtech. Immediately. If you have a prototype before that, send that. We want to learn about the chip as quickly as possible, not have to wait months looking for nuggets of information on the web.
Anandtech: Benchmark the hell out of the laptop. If there's single channel with a dual channel option, show a comparative benchmark, but concentrate on dual. We're enthusiasts, we'll install a second DIMM to get better performance. For benchmarks, basic system performance and a plethora of games, and comparison to Intel, plus battery life. Deep dives are nice, but I'd rather have a quick overview of what the system is suitable for, and what kind of gaming it can achieve.
AMD: Desktop first! I know that laptops are where the money is, but desktop is where the enthusiasts are, and if your chip is worth anything, fans and publications like Anandtech will pair it with the fastest memory, configure it with the best TDP, and see what it's really capable of. OEM limitations will not get in the way.
AMD: Fans first! That's pretty much a repeat of the previous point, but AMD, you still have fans, and they are your best customers, not the OEM's or the clueless general public. If you make something that you think is good and you let your fans learn of it and get hold of it, they will tell you what they think and they will tell others. If you leave them in the dark, they will end up losing their enthusiasm.
Anandtech: Follow up on AMD stuff. It may be hard to get the latest AMD chips if AMD isn't helping, but at least let us know you're on it. An occasional news item telling us that you've tried to get some laptops for testing or whatnot will tell us that you're on it, and hopefully shame AMD and the OEM's enough to get a move on.
Personally, I would likely have bought a Carrizo system if there was one of similar size to my old Thinkpad X120e (which I still use, even if I'm not that happy with its speed). I might have bought a Carrizo for my HTPC if I could and I knew it provided decent enough performance.
sofocle10000 - Monday, February 8, 2016 - link
I just signed in to state that Asus had nice business/multimedia notebooks (I used N60DP/N56DP and I actually use an N551ZU - all based on AMD), and although my actual N551ZU is only based on the top of the line Kaveri, it is an exceptional machine for normal use/light gaming...Customers play a big part in the AMD problem, but if there were more incentives (take my current N551ZU, which is a great notebook for ~750-850 $, and if configured with an SSD, you could hardly tell it apart most of the time from the Intel i5H/i7QH + GTX 950M variants), not only a great price, but a better build quality, display, sound system the the market average, some of them would actually pay more attention to the AMD.
The OEM's should have a more defined bottom line for the AMD notebooks - were dual channel memory and a better display, a hybrid SSHD or a SSD are a must, especially for the models in the upper part of the price range 400-700 $...
dragosmp - Monday, February 8, 2016 - link
@Ian - great article, really a good example of investigative journalism. I'm happy this kind of articles are being revived, but being a reader of Tom's I see where this may be coming from.As the "guy that says what laptop/phone to buy" to my family and friends I have to say your findings and conclusions speak to me very clearly - AMD has a system-problem, not so much a CPU-problem (though some may argue differently). AMD chips are fed into cheap looking/feeling PCs with far too many corners cut, but this is how under 700$ market looks like. Could AMD's OEMs sell a 600$ 13" PC to compete with the CoreM UX305? I think not, simply because AMD's CPUs (who consume more) need thicker chassis with stronger cooling and a beefier battery and that costs money - so there's less available for the UX; even if the OEM accepted lower margins on the AMD PC, or AMD to sell the CPU at bargain prices, that design compared to the UX305 would be thicker and likely noisier.
If Zen is good, I could see it in a Mac as Apple has a history of doing good software. Or AMD should build their own surface line and set an example of what can be done.
Gunbuster - Monday, February 8, 2016 - link
People buy the cheapest $300 laptop they can get or something premium. Who are they targeting with these mid-rangers?farmergann - Tuesday, February 9, 2016 - link
Wife uses her Y700 for school and a few hours of photo editing every week. Exactly what she wanted. This article did a worthless job of representing the actual Y700 w/fx8800p you can pick up at Best Buy for $665-830. Everything is fantastic about it save for the TB HDD which I immediately replaced with a Samsung 850 Pro I had laying around.Somehow, this "investigative" nonsense missed the fact the U.S. Y700 has a superb little IPS screen with Freesync to go along with a surprisingly (truly) good sound system and -despite the author's claim- dual channel ram. Just for grins I've played BF3 and a few other games - none of which had issues. Great low/mid-range laptop with plenty of chops.
every1hasaids - Tuesday, February 9, 2016 - link
Nope, the US model is absolute garbage. They skimped on the VRMs and the laptop subsequently throttles in moderately intensive CPU tasks. Example, try running Cities: Skylines with a decent sized city and tell me that it doesn't stutter after about 20 seconds of play and every 5 seconds or so after that. The stutters which coincide with the CPU being utilized near 100% and the frequency dropping per resource monitor and Afterburner all the way down to 1.6ghz... Also I don't know what you're talking about with the Freesync capability, I could not get it to work after reading elsewhere that it may be possible.The main issue with a product like the Y700 is that the intel variant is only a couple hundred bucks more and you get a genuine quad core with HT, dual channel DDR4-2133 and comparable discreet graphics. Oh, and it has no trouble with voltage supply. Not to mention that the m.2 interface is PCI-E as opposed to SATA on the AMD model. It just doesn't make sense to purchase a far inferior product for only $200 less at the price point these models occupy.
farmergann - Thursday, February 11, 2016 - link
Cities: Skylines? LOL, that's about as rich as whining about Starcraft 2 performance on an FX Octacore - what were you expecting exactly? For people not looking to shove a laughably CPU bound title down a 35W laptop's throat, the FX8800p with user installed SSD is a far better choice, sorry guy.Peichen - Monday, February 8, 2016 - link
Wow, that's wasting a lot of time and words reviewing a product no one will buy. AMD needs to exist to keep the cheap Intel stuff dirt cheap but I don't feel anyone should waste time reviewing AMD CPU products. 10 years of marketing hype and under-delivery means AMD is actually slower than ever compares with Intel.I bought 2 AMD CPU over the last 6/7 years and frankly I wish I spend more buying Intel because I wouldn't have to spend time and money as often upgrading the CPU.
Danvelopment - Monday, February 8, 2016 - link
The way I see it, AMD needs to stop comparing themselves with themselves and needs to compare themselves with the competition. People don't understand the improvements if they aren't involved with the predecessor.They produce a reasonable product that performs at 60-80% of the competition at 50% of the price.
Good designs are produced for the competition, that could fundamentally have their parts, and they're losing on the design front.
And strangely, for similar products the AMD machines are the same cost, even though the difference is the chip (at halfish the price).
Can they not work to develop an easier transition method for OEM's to produce this-or-that designs that allow end users to pick AMD or Intel during the selection process. Tier them like Dell does for the various Intel processors but have them consistently show up as the cheapest option $100 off a $500 laptop is a decent drop and if the chip and PCB is $150 cheaper to produce the OEM still wins).
Differentiating the product creates too many variables people don't understand, and creates the issue above, CPU brand aversion on entire product stacks with no common ground.
I'd say take a long, hard look at current machines, and develop a method of getting their chips into them as an option, without OEMs designing a product from the ground up.
I'd certainly consider AMD if I could just select it as an option that knocks $100 off on the low cost tier laptop in my workplace.