No Room at the Win

The interesting thing about laptop design is that for the most part we are dealing with a number of devices with the same level of power consumption. This means that given sufficient standards, the same laptop shell - be it plastic, aluminium or something a bit more exotic - should be able to house different components that operate at a similar TDP, all with similar battery capacities. Thus if a company gets a ‘win’ with a laptop design, then an equivalent TDP processor from the competition (again, there are other factors involved such as controllers and z-height) should be able to work well in that same device.

But one key differentiator between Intel and AMD however is the consistent level of halo devices available with each manufacturer's hardware. It doesn't take long to find the evolutions of Intel's Ultrabook line that focus on high performance, and other premium devices designed to hit a certain combination of thickness and battery life, such as ASUS' Zenbook line or the Apple Macbook Air. In the tablet space, Intel has had design wins with the Microsoft Surface line as well as others, especially premium devices. These are all high volume, highly advertised product lines available in almost every market and not hard to find. In the case of the three mentioned above, some are household names and all of them are well known in the technical media zeitgeist.


HP Elitebook, one of the more premium designs with AMD inside

However, if AMD is mentioned in a similar vein, it is difficult to draw a single conclusion or the name of a premium or otherwise well-known laptop model from memory unless you happen to either work directly with AMD marketing or you are the product manager at a parner OEM. There have been no design wins or public contracts with AMDs mobile processors, and no big halo products that champion both performance and industrial design in a single device. As a result there has to be an element of questioning here. Are OEMs unwilling to use AMD? Do AMD products have a bad reputation? Is there something inherent with the name or product that makes OEMs reluctant, or users to withhold their purchases? Or is there something fundamentally wrong with the processor? As is often the case, the predicted answer to this question is a mixed bag.

Carrizo over Kaveri

As mentioned previously, Carrizo is the name for the family of APUs that use AMDs fourth iteration of the Bulldozer architecture, Excavator. Carrizo is built on GlobalFoundries' 28nm process node and comes inline with AMDs recent renegotiation of contracts regarding the scale and scope of the APU product line. Carrizo APUs will be available in 15W variants, which reflects the focus of the architecture update as well as the change in metal stack arrangement incorporated for this family to optimize transistor density. Meanwhile the higher-end models will have an available TDP-Up mode of 35W in order to increase performance, although this is at the discretion of the OEM. AMD for their part has already stated that their primary use case for Carrizo is at 15W, as 35W is the point where the Carrizo's power optimizations aren't quite as efficient and the performance of previous generation APUs will intersect with Carrizo (when talking raw CPU, rather than other benefits Carrizo has).

In launching Carrizo, AMD was clear on the target market for this APU - laptops in the $400-$700 range. It has been pointed out by media and analysts that this market segment represents an opportunity for AMD to fit between Intel's low power/high performance/high cost Core-M line of processors, the low power/low performance/low cost Atom line and the higher power/medium cost Core i3. According to AMD, this segment represents 40% of all laptop sales, covering users who want more than a budget device but something below the high costs of a premium device.

Meanwhile AMDs secondary aim with Carrizo is to offer premium level performance in certain applications at a lower price point by using Carrizo's stance as the first CPU architecture to be ratified against the heterogeneous system architecture (HSA) standards. As a result, AMD had been working with software developers in order to leverage HSA benefits in specific code bases and subsequently improve in performance, particularly with software of widespread importance, such as Adobe and LibreOffice.

Carrizo is a true system-on-chip (SoC), integrating the CPU, the GPU, and the input/output hub all on one piece of silicon (and thus one package). This leads to several direct benefits - reducing the power consumption of the I/O hub by bringing it down to the same process node as the main processor, allowing different areas of the SoC to be power gated under a single control system rather than recreating power delivery networks around the system, and ease of use when it comes to HSA requiring less data to travel around external buses. 

AMDs main competitor in the mobile processor space, disregarding tablets for the moment and devices like Surface RT/Chromebook Pixel, is Intel. Intel, like AMD, leverages an x86 CPU design with integrated graphics on the same die. Thanks to a combination of many years of experience with graphics and designs intentionally favoring high performance integrated GPUs, AMDs main positive point of performance in recent generations has been the integrated graphics arena, where they win out typically in terms of graphics performance/cost and graphics performance/power metrics. Thus a number of improvements to Carrizo over previous architectures relate to graphics use - either using it more with HSA or offloading certain workloads to dedicated IP to keep more of the SoC at an idle state.

Carrizo’s design allows AMD to add two more graphics compute units (+33%) at 15W compared to Kaveri at a similar frequency, which combined with IPC increases in the processor has led to some interesting claims for performance. These claims have been picked up by casual readers and OEMs alike. 

How to Iterate Through Design The ‘Who Wants AMD In A Laptop?’ Problem
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  • alexruiz - Friday, February 5, 2016 - link

    Ian,
    What specific model of the Elitebook 745 G3 did you test?
    You listed the QHD screen (2560 x 1440 IPS) but you also wrote that it came in at just under $700. Is this correct? The one that you received for $700 included the QHD screen?
    Thanks
  • Anonymous Blowhard - Friday, February 5, 2016 - link

    The link on the page goes to the T3L35UT#ABA, which is a 1080p screen. I'm guessing the spreadsheet and/or pricing is incorrect somehow.
  • Ian Cutress - Friday, February 5, 2016 - link

    I remember being told it was 700, though I may have misheard and perhaps they were speaking GBP. But AB is right, the larger screen is 1080p and more expensive.

    The HP website is surprising though - the UX on the website is crazy to find a product that isn't the latest and greatest. It is very difficult to find anything and you seem to pay a premium for speccing out a custom Elitebook. Trying to spec out the one I was given came to $1900 from a $1620 base, which clearly isn't right because the high end 'buy now' model was about $1120 with similar specifications.

    http://goo.gl/5spQls
  • Anonymous Blowhard - Friday, February 5, 2016 - link

    GBP certainly makes a lot more sense. The base USD$750 model on HP's site has an A8-8600B, 4GB of RAM, and a 500GB HDD. If you want to find a Carrizo system with an "awful user experience" there it is.

    Custom-building an HP business system from their site is also expensive for no reason other than "because we said so." They really want you to buy the mass-manufactured SmartBuy models, although you may have better luck with a custom unit (read: "reasonable pricing") if you buy from a 3rd-party reseller.

    I would like to see some GPU benchmarks with a second stick of RAM added to the 745 G3 though. Single-channel memory gives integrated graphics the Tonya Harding treatment.
  • Intel999 - Sunday, February 7, 2016 - link

    Another review of Carrizo in the HP 745 G3 showed a 30% improvement in gaming when the second stick of RAM was installed. It went from woefully behind Intel to just ahead of them after sufficient RAM was provided.

    It is remarkable that any OEM would damage their own reputation by putting out crap that is obviously intended to funnel sales to Intel.

    Imagine an OEM putting out a model, let's call it HP100, and offering it with identical specs with the only difference being a Carrizo CPU vs. an I5 from Intel. Few if any, would notice a difference in performance in the real world, not talking benchmarks.

    The OEM would have a $100 savings on the Carrizo version if not more. If they were to sell it for $50 less than the Intel version they would sell more and that extra $50 profit on the AMD machine would more than offset the "rebates" they are getting from Intel. So they could have a higher profit margin at a lower price point. Afterall, with all the Intel marketing you'd still have plenty of people opting for the Intel version with it's lower profit margin. Just not as many and overtime you could approach Intel and point out that you make more money off AMD machines and who knows, maybe for the first time in recent history the OEM would control how their company is run and Intel would say "I guess we can cut our price by $25" and then you would be making the same profit on both Intel and AMD machines since, of course, the OEM wouldn't pass that $25 to the customer.

    They could still offer junk machines at lower price points. Fill em up with Celerons or whatever they wanted attached to HDDs, 4GB of RAM, and crap screens.

    Surely, no OEM is still following the old Intel rebate plan that allowed Intel to determine the market share that the OEM is allowed to give AMD. Or, are they?

  • Lolimaster - Friday, February 5, 2016 - link

    I hate HP store with all my might, back in the day I got better experience donwloading from japanese p2p's not knowing japanese and just using a simple guide.
  • keeepcool - Friday, February 5, 2016 - link

    Please, just dont let Toshiba make laptops, just DON'T.
    Sorry for the word, but Toshiba is a shit brand that deserves to die. All their laptops have cooling solutions that are badly designed from the start, and the they cut all the corners and go for paper thin 4mm heatpipes on top of deformed and pitted 1.5mm cooper plates that make poor contact with the dies, the fans are thin, the thermal paste is worse than toothpaste, just stop allowing them to disgrace AMD name.
    HP is also guilty of this, after the disgrace that where the dv6 models almost no one in Portugal and a lot other countries ever want a laptop with AMD cpu or gpu, because DV6's are just know for being litteral toasters that crash and burned, yes part of that was due to lack of maintenance, but still, it left a very sour taste regard AMD/ATI equiped laptops.

    Today only people with low monetary margins will go for an AMD laptop, because they are the cheapest ones, and even then HP and Toshibas just manage to make toasters out of 7 and 15Watts TDP, its like they actually spend time engineering them to became so hot with so little TDP's...
  • tipoo - Friday, February 5, 2016 - link

    50.27 Wh, 3 cell Li-Po design, rated to 10.25 hours. Out of a 3.3GHz AMD APU.

    You know, HP, somehow, I don't believe you.
  • bluevaping - Friday, February 5, 2016 - link

    Nice article. And I get the point of the article about OEM's and AMD. I mostly agree with Shadowmaster 625. But it would have been nice to see a dual channel memory test. The Elitebook supports it. Slap in the extra ram and test it. And try dual channel 1866 Ram too.
  • tipoo - Friday, February 5, 2016 - link

    Shame the Lenovo doesn't support dual graphics - any reason why, or will this be updated in drivers? Especially as the integrated one has the same number of SPs as the dedicated, it could add a lot to the power equation.

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