No Room at the Win

The interesting thing about laptop design is that for the most part we are dealing with a number of devices with the same level of power consumption. This means that given sufficient standards, the same laptop shell - be it plastic, aluminium or something a bit more exotic - should be able to house different components that operate at a similar TDP, all with similar battery capacities. Thus if a company gets a ‘win’ with a laptop design, then an equivalent TDP processor from the competition (again, there are other factors involved such as controllers and z-height) should be able to work well in that same device.

But one key differentiator between Intel and AMD however is the consistent level of halo devices available with each manufacturer's hardware. It doesn't take long to find the evolutions of Intel's Ultrabook line that focus on high performance, and other premium devices designed to hit a certain combination of thickness and battery life, such as ASUS' Zenbook line or the Apple Macbook Air. In the tablet space, Intel has had design wins with the Microsoft Surface line as well as others, especially premium devices. These are all high volume, highly advertised product lines available in almost every market and not hard to find. In the case of the three mentioned above, some are household names and all of them are well known in the technical media zeitgeist.


HP Elitebook, one of the more premium designs with AMD inside

However, if AMD is mentioned in a similar vein, it is difficult to draw a single conclusion or the name of a premium or otherwise well-known laptop model from memory unless you happen to either work directly with AMD marketing or you are the product manager at a parner OEM. There have been no design wins or public contracts with AMDs mobile processors, and no big halo products that champion both performance and industrial design in a single device. As a result there has to be an element of questioning here. Are OEMs unwilling to use AMD? Do AMD products have a bad reputation? Is there something inherent with the name or product that makes OEMs reluctant, or users to withhold their purchases? Or is there something fundamentally wrong with the processor? As is often the case, the predicted answer to this question is a mixed bag.

Carrizo over Kaveri

As mentioned previously, Carrizo is the name for the family of APUs that use AMDs fourth iteration of the Bulldozer architecture, Excavator. Carrizo is built on GlobalFoundries' 28nm process node and comes inline with AMDs recent renegotiation of contracts regarding the scale and scope of the APU product line. Carrizo APUs will be available in 15W variants, which reflects the focus of the architecture update as well as the change in metal stack arrangement incorporated for this family to optimize transistor density. Meanwhile the higher-end models will have an available TDP-Up mode of 35W in order to increase performance, although this is at the discretion of the OEM. AMD for their part has already stated that their primary use case for Carrizo is at 15W, as 35W is the point where the Carrizo's power optimizations aren't quite as efficient and the performance of previous generation APUs will intersect with Carrizo (when talking raw CPU, rather than other benefits Carrizo has).

In launching Carrizo, AMD was clear on the target market for this APU - laptops in the $400-$700 range. It has been pointed out by media and analysts that this market segment represents an opportunity for AMD to fit between Intel's low power/high performance/high cost Core-M line of processors, the low power/low performance/low cost Atom line and the higher power/medium cost Core i3. According to AMD, this segment represents 40% of all laptop sales, covering users who want more than a budget device but something below the high costs of a premium device.

Meanwhile AMDs secondary aim with Carrizo is to offer premium level performance in certain applications at a lower price point by using Carrizo's stance as the first CPU architecture to be ratified against the heterogeneous system architecture (HSA) standards. As a result, AMD had been working with software developers in order to leverage HSA benefits in specific code bases and subsequently improve in performance, particularly with software of widespread importance, such as Adobe and LibreOffice.

Carrizo is a true system-on-chip (SoC), integrating the CPU, the GPU, and the input/output hub all on one piece of silicon (and thus one package). This leads to several direct benefits - reducing the power consumption of the I/O hub by bringing it down to the same process node as the main processor, allowing different areas of the SoC to be power gated under a single control system rather than recreating power delivery networks around the system, and ease of use when it comes to HSA requiring less data to travel around external buses. 

AMDs main competitor in the mobile processor space, disregarding tablets for the moment and devices like Surface RT/Chromebook Pixel, is Intel. Intel, like AMD, leverages an x86 CPU design with integrated graphics on the same die. Thanks to a combination of many years of experience with graphics and designs intentionally favoring high performance integrated GPUs, AMDs main positive point of performance in recent generations has been the integrated graphics arena, where they win out typically in terms of graphics performance/cost and graphics performance/power metrics. Thus a number of improvements to Carrizo over previous architectures relate to graphics use - either using it more with HSA or offloading certain workloads to dedicated IP to keep more of the SoC at an idle state.

Carrizo’s design allows AMD to add two more graphics compute units (+33%) at 15W compared to Kaveri at a similar frequency, which combined with IPC increases in the processor has led to some interesting claims for performance. These claims have been picked up by casual readers and OEMs alike. 

How to Iterate Through Design The ‘Who Wants AMD In A Laptop?’ Problem
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  • Gadgety - Sunday, February 7, 2016 - link

    So AMD's marketing and distribution strategy is a failure. The way it's described it would seem consumers specifying their own PCs would be a away around the dominant logic determined by the existing channels. With today's production technology tailor made products on demand should be possible.

    The other thing I don't get, is why doesn't AMD release a desktop Carrizo 4K capable APU for the FM2+ platform? Do they want to help the motherboard manufacturers sell more motherboards once the new AM4 socket APU:s are out in 2017, or do they want to sell their own existing products?
  • JMC2000 - Sunday, February 7, 2016 - link

    I think it's more along the lines of having an installed base of AM4 boards before any Zen-based APUs roll out.

    It is possible that if the Athlon X4 845 sells well, AMD could release a full Carrizo part on FM2+.
  • AlB80 - Sunday, February 7, 2016 - link

    What is discrete graphic chip in Lenovo?
    512sp GCN1.2.... I suspect that this combination is unreal.
  • Jamesiii - Sunday, February 7, 2016 - link

    I have actually ordered Dell's AMD A8-8600P. It is intended as a media machine with the selling points being the low power equating to quiet and the 4K capability. The one thing I did notice is that he does have the Single Channel DDR3L 1600MHz memory. There is no indication on if it unlocks the watts to 35, but I have my doubts given the choice of RAM.

    I will know more when I get it on Thursday and will update if anyone is still view this thread. But, at $380.00 it is not a bad choice for a media machine.
  • tygrus - Sunday, February 7, 2016 - link

    OBM (the brands) bid for designs by the ODM's based on the design cost and the expected volume. I high cost Intel design can be made profitable by the expectation of very high volumes. Even the most popular AMD design is expected to sell fewer than a low-volume Intel design. Business limitations and commercial forces bias the system towards Intel. Intel also have deeper pockets to sponsor/partner/subsidise designs to make them Intel exclusive. From manufactures to distributors to retail, Intel penalise (withdraw discounts/subsidies) anyone who lets AMD gain market share (many limited to <10%) and limit the use of the "best" designs for AMD (forced to sell only A4 & A6 instead of A8 or better, limit battery and other features so Intel always looks better). The "Intel brakes" applied to AMD limits their opportunities and potential earnings. This has limited the AMD R&D spending and forced AMD to stay behind in some aspects. It's amazing what AMD has done with 28nm but think of the advantage they could have had with 22nm and 14nm if successful achieved much earlier (no more than 9months after Intel).
  • every1hasaids - Monday, February 8, 2016 - link

    I owned (owned being the operative word there) a Y700 with the AMD Carrizo FX8800P and can attest to the fact that the cooling solution and probably several other pieces of that device reviewed in this article are not the same design as what is available on the market in the US. There is a known issue of Lenovo skimping on the VRMs on the AMD Y700 which results in heavy throttling taking place. I couldn't play any game for more than 15 minutes before heavy throttling would occur. The data gathered from the review sample in this article should not be associated with the available product on the market. There appears to also be an FX-8700P variant of the Y700 out there however I cannot find any documentation of the existence of this device on Lenovo's site. Needless to say that I returned that laptop due to the significant throttling problems. I wish this site of some other site could get their hands on one of the FX-8800P Y700 laptops available in the US and put it through testing to reveal the problems with the unit. I'm guessing that they intend on releasing a Carrizo-L version of that laptop with the same motherboard which is why the VRMs are not up to the task of the 35w Carrizo and the added consumption of the dedicated graphics chip.

    Why are there no units out there that can handle the 35w TDP Carrizo and a dedicated graphics card!?!?!?! It would be a great alternative to the Intel/Nvidia gaming notebook monopoly.

    I'm hoping Zen/Polaris will actually see some adoption from OEMs and maybe AMD could even get involved in assisting proper implementation of their products so that the negative stigma could get nullified.
  • Jamesiii - Monday, February 8, 2016 - link

    The FX-8700P would more properly be called an A10-8700P. It sounds like a bit of marketing if they are using the FX handle.

    On gaming sites people are suggesting you turn off AMD's Turbo Core when gaming to avoid the FPS jumping up and down and overclock the processors. Overclocking a laptop is dicey at best though.
  • Malih - Monday, February 8, 2016 - link

    maybe Microsoft should start making an AMD Surface laptop if they want good competition to drive PC Sales
  • Marcelo Viana - Monday, February 8, 2016 - link

    I just don't understand why in a comparison carrizo vs intel you didn't take out the intel chips memory in order to both have 1 channel memory, so do a benchmark for us in a same condition.
    The entire article show that intel offering has OEMs given what intel chips need, so the point in comparing carrizo vs intel is the chip itself not platform, since AMD has no platform at all.
  • Elensar286 - Monday, February 8, 2016 - link

    That's a large focus of this article, though. The whole point was an investigation in to the implementation of Carrizo APUs by the OEM. It's highlighting exactly how like you said, the OEM platform, is hindering the potential of Carrizo processors.

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