Mid-Range SFF Gaming System
One area that we didn't address yet is the potential to go with a small form factor (SFF) system. This especially makes sense for those who attend LAN parties, not to mention the college students that lack space for a large system in their dorm rooms. Many people think that SFF systems are really expensive, but that's not necessarily true. All told, the cost of going with a SFF setup is about $50 more than going with a standard desktop system. There are drawbacks, but first, let's list our SFF configuration, again using an Athlon 64.
| Mid-Range SFF AMD Athlon 64 System |
| Hardware |
Recommended Component |
Price |
| Processor |
AMD Athlon 64 3500+ 512K 2.2 GHz (939) 90nm |
285 |
| Memory |
Mushkin Dual Pack 2x512 PC3200 2.5-3-3 |
159 |
| Video Card |
Albatron GeFORCE 6800 GT 256MB GDDR3 |
374 |
| Hard Drive |
Seagate 160GB SATA 7200RPM 8MB Model ST3160023AS |
93 |
| Optical Drive |
NEC DVD+/-RW Drive Model 3500A |
72 |
| SFF Case |
Shuttle XPC SN95G5 (AMD socket 939) |
299 |
| Display |
Samsung 172X 17 LCD |
429 |
| Speakers |
Logitech Z-640 5.1 |
52 |
| Keyboard |
Logitech Internet Keyboard |
17 |
| Mouse |
Microsoft IntelliMouse Optical |
24 |
| Bottom Line |
|
1804 |
Click to enlarge. |
The total price of our SFF configuration ends up being almost $300 more than the Mid-Range system, but there are reasons for this. We have included a 17" LCD with our SFF recommendation, which is the lion's share of the price increase. After all, what's the point of getting a space-saving, portable case if you're going to pair it with a bulky CRT? That adds an extra $200 to the price, so if you disagree and feel that CRTs and SFFs can peacefully coexist, you can put together a Mid-Range SFF system for $1600. As with the high-end setup, we strongly recommend that anyone looking for a quality LCD get a model that had a DVI-D interface. Unfortunately, one knock against the Samsung 172X is that it is an 18-bit display, which uses dithering/interpolation to "reproduce" 24-bit color. This doesn't matter too much in games, and the 12 ms response time convinces us to go with it anyway, but we're not entirely happy with the options in the 17" LCD segment. Besides the display, remember that a SFF case includes the motherboard and a custom heatsink for the CPU in addition to the case and power supply. So, the $300 cost of the Shuttle XPC takes the place of about $225 of desktop hardware - $250 if you want an aftermarket HSF for your system.
Click to enlarge. |
The one thing that you do sacrifice with a SFF is expansion options. Where most desktop cases can support three or four 5.25" drives, two external 3.5" bays, and three or more internal 3.5" hard drives, the Shuttle XPC that we have used is limited to one 5.25" drive and one 3.5" drive externally, along with one 3.5" internal mount for your hard drive. It is also limited to one AGP slot and one PCI slot, but with all of the included features, the lack of PCI slots is not likely to be an issue. RAM expansion options have been cut back to two DIMM sockets, so even with 1 GB DIMMs, you would max out at 2 GB of RAM. None of these issues are deal-breakers, however, and when paired with a 6800 or X800 graphics card, you have a lot of performance packed into a small, quiet chassis.
We have only included a SFF recommendation for a socket 939 Athlon system, but you could do the same with any other platform. Nearly every motherboard manufacturer has at least one SFF system available, and usually they have several. If you don't upgrade components frequently, SFF cases can be a convenient replacement of the standard "boring" home or office computer.
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SDA - Wednesday, December 1, 2004 - link
Whoops, I'd forgotten all about this thread.400W is fine if that's what you want, since it's your system. I wouldn't recommend to others that they spend much more for a 400W PSU (as opposed to spending more to get a higher-quality 350W or 380W PSU) when the average high-end Athlon 64 rig consumes 230W or so under load, though. I'd define 50% more than is necessary under full load "moderate," how about you?
520W is still overkill for SLI 6800GTs on an A64, although not as bad as 400W is overkill for the average A64. As I recall, SLI 6800Us on a high-end A64 eat something like 350W of power (decked out with HDDs and fans and whatnot, of course). 470W is perfectly fine there (although I'd personally just get a Tagan 480W, which should be the same and cheaper + less gaudy to boot). Again, you're welcome to do what you want, but you have an obligation to research system power consumption before you make recommendations to others.
As for E-Power/Tagan, the amperages really aren't very different. Furthermore, just because they don't look the same doesn't mean they're not. They use very similar components, have an identical layout, and use the same PCB. Trust me, PCB and components say a lot more than paint job ;) Googling Tagan and PowerStream should give you some nice solid evidence (and juicy internals pics!).
Again, nothing against the guide in general.. I just ask that you research the subject more in the future.
JarredWalton - Friday, November 26, 2004 - link
"Moderate PSU" in my book means >=400W these days. If a 350W generic PSU isn't sufficient, are you really going to want to spend $25 to $30 (shipped) for something that is the same wattage but more reliable? Maybe, but I wouldn't. If I buy an add-in PSU, I'll get at least a 400W.520W *is* overkill for most systems, but if you look at what I said it makes sense. If you want SLI with two 6800 GT or 6800 Ultra cards, you're probably going to have two (or more) hard drives and a lot of other stuff as well. I would spend the extra money for the 520W in that case. Regarding the OCZ = Tagan comment, I would have to see some really concrete evidence of that. Judging by The Egg, they're not the same:
http://www.newegg.com/app/viewProductDesc.asp?desc...
http://www.newegg.com/app/viewproductdesc.asp?desc...
The E-Power/Tagan has very different amperages than the OCZ. The shells are also different. Both are quality power supplies, of course, but even if they share some common components, that doesn't make them "the same."
Anyway, the PSU comments are duly noted and I will make sure to mention this item more clearly in the future. Please move on from the PSU comments now... nothing to see here. ;) (If you really want to comment more on the PSUs, you can. I'm only kidding people.)
SDA - Wednesday, November 24, 2004 - link
First thing to say: I don't want to sound insulting or condescending in any way. I think this is a good guide, and it's a lot of work to get a guide that a lot of people agree on as being good-- especially one as extensive as this.Now then. No, a good PSU will NOT add $50+ to the total for the budget systems. Fortron/Sparkle and TTGI power supplies are known to be solid units, if not amazing, and ones of appropriate wattage (300-350 is fine for a PC like the budget box) can be obtained for a reasonable $20-25 new. Is paying an extra 2.5~3% to avoid seeing a cheap POS PSU fail in an amusing fashion (possibly taking parts with it, I saw a Powmax unit take out an XP and mobo) and/or avoid instability worth it? Well, sure, I think so. Would you be willing to save $20 and go with cheap generic memory? Didn't think so.
And yeah, I realize the budget systems aren't meant for overclocking. That doesn't matter. I've been to the AMD official processor support forums too, and I've also worked as a tech support (paid and all, although FWIW a lot of the people that help out on those forums know what they're talking about more than pro tech supports), and I can say for certain that the biggest problem with DIY systems is cheap power supplies. They can be problematic even at stock clock speeds, and it's certainly not as if the budget systems are little old P2s that'll barely eat any power at all.
I'd also like to add, for the sake of balance, that 520W is overkill. Quality > quantity; you don't need a 450W PSU to achieve stability, not even if you're running an insane system. Oh yeah, and OCZ PowerStreams are the same as Tagans, and you can get those for pretty cheap (480W Tagan = ~$80 at the Egg of New).
JarredWalton - Wednesday, November 24, 2004 - link
54: The OCZ PowerStream is undoubtedly a good PSU, particularly for overclocking. That wasn't a primary concern with this Guide, so I didn't mention it as we have repeated that recommendation quite a few times. It's about $140 which is quite a lot for a power supply. On the other hand, for those seriously considering SLI with 6800 GT or Ultra cards, a power supply of that quality would be almost required.PseudoKnight - Wednesday, November 24, 2004 - link
Jarred, try the Logitech MX310. It has the Button4 and 5 on opposite sides like you prefer. (as I do, that's why I got one)Precise - Wednesday, November 24, 2004 - link
In your Oct. 1st Athlon 64 Memory: Rewriting the Rules review Wesley Fink stated:"We found that replacing a well-respected 465 watt PS with a 520 watt PowerStream allowed even higher memory overclocks. This was true with both the power-hungry nVidia 6800 Ultra as well as the more mainstream ATI 9800 PRO. If top memory overclocks on the Athlon 64 is your goal, don't skimp on the power supply. Putting the best PS that you can find in your system will pay off in higher memory overclocks with greater stability"
So if you want the fastest memory/system with overclocking you should get a 520 watt PS per Wesley Fink's own recommendation and review.
Glassmaster - Wednesday, November 24, 2004 - link
"Part of the problem, of course, is that many generic PSUs might work well for a couple months and then fail, and that's something that is nearly impossible to test."That might be a good reason not to recommend them :P. Keep up the good work, I would look forward to a PSU roundup.
Glassmaster.
JarredWalton - Wednesday, November 24, 2004 - link
blckgrffn - It's $40 now, it looks like, and despite the name "Silent Power" the dual 80mm fans are not at all silent. The Polo12 is quieter, but it's also about $30 more. $40 for the 420W Thermaltake isn't too bad, though.As for a PSU roundup, I would have to do a lot more research into that subject before actually doing something like that. There are probably people better qualified to do a PSU roundup than me, of course, but it is an interesting topic. I may run that by some of the others to see if they have any thoughts on the topic. Part of the problem, of course, is that many generic PSUs might work well for a couple months and then fail, and that's something that is nearly impossible to test.
Glassmaster - Tuesday, November 23, 2004 - link
Jarred:Thanks for the response. I make a big deal about it because the weak PSU thing is something that lots of people don't know about that ought to be better publicized. Perhaps a future article could be devoted to this topic?
Glassmaster.
blckgrffn - Tuesday, November 23, 2004 - link
Sigh. And I have personally used 3 and really like them. Man, got to keep myself from hitting the "Post Comment" button for at least five seconds after I think that I am done typing...