Samsung S23A750D 3D LCD Display
by Chris Heinonen on December 17, 2011 2:45 PM ESTSamsung S23A750D 3D and 120Hz Testing
Of course, you can’t review the S23A750 without talking about 3D. The Samsung uses a TN panel that operates at a true 120Hz with active shutter glasses. This allows for a full 60Hz per eye at full resolution, which should allow for a very smooth, fluid, and detailed 3D image as long as your video card can support it. Once again, you’ll need to use DisplayPort to get the full 120Hz at native resolution. This appears to be a limitation with either the AMD GPU (using an HDMI connection didn't allow me to force 120Hz), or it may be that the HDMI chipset in the Samsung simply lacks the ability to handle 1080p120. We've seen 1080p120 over HDMI with other displays using a different GPU, so the cause of the limitation isn't clear.
One of the most important things with a 3D display is how little crosstalk there is between the two eyes. The liquid crystal matrices in LCDs don’t realign instantly but have a bit of decay time, thus as the active shutter glasses switch from eye to eye there is a potential for some of the image in one eye to persist and be present on the other eye. This is easiest to spot when there is an edge with a dark color against a light color, as the crosstalk will look almost like a shadow. There are also some test patterns available to measure this, and I did so using an AccuPel DPG-5000 pattern generator.
As you can see, there was very little crosstalk between the two eyes. However, testing was done using a pattern generator running at 1080p60 over HDMI and not at 120Hz. Without the ability to test a true 1080p120 signal over DisplayPort, it's difficult to say how things will change—it could improve (faster switching) or deteriorate (more crosstalk as each image is only active for 8.3ms instead of 16.7ms). As we look at additional 3D displays in the future, we'll use the Samsung results as a baseline. What I can say is that I could see some instances of crosstalk when viewing 3D films, but it wasn't too bad—about what I've come to expect from 3D movies on the big screen.
As for gaming tests, while there are a lot of games that can be played in 3D modes, as noted earlier NVIDIA's 3D Vision currently has much more support than AMD's HD3D. Given the AMD GPU on hand and the included HD3D support in the S23A, that's what we chose to test with, and I put in a good amount of time playing a few of the supported titles. Many of these had 3D tacked on (long) after the initial release. In theory this should work fine as you can just shift the camera slightly for each eye to get a 3D image; however, it doesn’t always work out right. For example, during the intro in Half-Life 2, the giant face that appears doesn’t render correctly in 3D. Likewise in World of Warcraft, you get a ghost image to both sides that someone described to me as tracers, which seems as good a description as any. You do get a sense of depth, but you also get a lot of artifacts that to me are more distracting than the 3D is a benefit.
Unfortunately while 3D on the AV side has been mostly sorted out (1080p24 frame packed is the standard), it’s not that way on the PC side quite yet. Using the same standard as your TV would result in a refresh rate of 24Hz or a maximum resolution of 720p, and no one wants that. The Samsung was sent along with an AMD video card as that is what it is designed to be used with, and searching the web for data on this shows that there isn’t native support for NVIDIA 3D vision yet. I did find reports that you can make it work with NVIDIA hardware by forcing on support inside your game, and then forcing 3D on the Samsung display (using the 3D button on the pedestal stand), but the lack of standardization really hurts. Hopefully this gets sorted out soon and 3D is simply plug-and-play in the future on the PC.
I also admit that active 3D really does not sit well with me. I’m not certain if it’s the refresh rate or something else, but it causes me a headache in no time at all. I’ve seen one active 3D system so far that hasn’t caused me discomfort, but that was a $30,000 projector and you'd expect a near-perfect experience from such hardware. I had others try out the monitor and they didn’t get the same reaction to 3D that I did, so I'd recommend any potential buyers try to give the monitor an in-person test before purchasing.
While the 120Hz is required to operate in 3D, it also means you can work at a true 120Hz in 2D mode. I hadn’t considered this before the display arrived, but 120Hz was somewhat of a revelation. Small things you are used to, such as a window tearing when you drag it across the screen, don’t happen nearly as much or to the same degree. Motion in games was far smoother and more natural than you normally see. It’s long been claimed that 60Hz is where things become perfectly smooth for human vision, but while 60Hz might be "natural", 120Hz appears even more so. When I think of improvements that I’d want in my display going forward, 120Hz or even 240Hz refresh would be on that list. Of course, getting 120Hz with something better than a TN panel is really what I'd like.
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cheinonen - Monday, December 19, 2011 - link
The Samsung S23A750D is tested and certified by AMD to work with their cards in 3D, and so that is why it was tested with an AMD card. It appears on the AMD website as a supported device for 3D, but not on the NVIDIA website. Reading up on the matter showed that you can force it into 3D mode to work with NVIDIA cards, but at the moment it works more easily with AMD cards. Hopefully there is a unified standard soon so this won't be an issue going forward.millisec - Monday, December 19, 2011 - link
Samsung has had issues with touch for quite some time and I'm kind of surprised they still have not fixed it. I have used them almost exclusively since my first syncmaster 15 back in early 90's right up to the 2693 HM I have now and as far as picture quality I love them. The touch is horrible (all your same issues then some) and has always been a problem including several periods of time where it had a mind of its own. Nothing like being in the middle of a game and having it shut off or worse yet pop up the menu and go ape cycling menu's and changing settings at random. I still have occasional power button response issues but the menu cycling finally went away after I readjusted the front panel a bit by pulling it out around the touch panel. I have a much older Samsung 22" with real buttons and it is flawless to this day.blau808 - Monday, December 19, 2011 - link
I'm not sure why you would have a non-gamer test what is obviously a gamer oriented monitor. I hardly think there are many people who would buy a 3D monitor to watch movies on. That's what 3DTV's are for.If Samsung wants to sell 3D monitors, they're going to have to make sure that everyone's current favorite games look great in 3D. Skyrim, Battlefield, SWTOR, etc. Unfortunately this aspect of the review was simply glossed over with small references to WoW and Half Life 2.
Steveymoo - Tuesday, December 20, 2011 - link
If you enjoyed 120hz (I've been enjoying 120hz for quites a whiles now,) Sony is going to be releasing a 240hz gaming screen soon, which I have my eye on..... Although, in all fairness, you won't find many games that run >120fps these days, even if you buy top end hardware. I think the only way you're going to get this kind of performance, is through Source games (l4d, hl2 etc.) and the COD series.Wouldn't it be nice if they shifted their arses into gear, to develop a 120hz IPS screen? It's been nearly 10 years since CRTs were outlawed, and flat panel displays STILL haven't caught up in terms of all-round performance in one panel standard (colour reproduction, contrast, refresh rate etc.)
Midwayman - Tuesday, December 20, 2011 - link
I wish I could beat whom ever came up the 60hz is smooth. I can see motion up until about 90hz. Its subtle over 60hz, but certainly detectable. Back in the CRT days with larger monitors it was really easy to see this flicker in your peripheral vision.Earballs - Tuesday, December 20, 2011 - link
Why is there no comparison to the Acer GD235HZ or LG W2363D, two very popular 23" 120hz displays. I own both and while the response times are very similar the input lag is miles apart. The "thrumode" on the LG makes it perform so close to a CRT I can't believe it.I use my 120hz displays for 2D desktop/gaming and the LG is the benchmark (even against a CRT, yes really) in my opinion. It's a pity this display wasn't compared to it's direct competition. I'd bet this monitor is best in 3D tests, but that's not how everyone uses them. The only way I care about another 120hz display is if it's 27" and has zero input lag like the LG.
Earballs - Tuesday, December 20, 2011 - link
why was my comment deleted? It was on topic, well thought out, and made good points. That's just not okay.Earballs - Tuesday, December 20, 2011 - link
scratch that. >.>Darkimmortal - Saturday, December 31, 2011 - link
I don't know where you arrived at nearly 12ms - the real figure for this series of monitors is around 4ms and I can say from experience they are as close as you can get to a CRT in terms of input lag.Spiritless - Friday, January 6, 2012 - link
Chris, even though I feel the rest of the guys here make a few valid points regarding the structure of the article and perhaps a bit on the technical side, there are a few things I think you should know:There are people like me, who would never use an Nvidia graphics card, simply because they a) just really don't like Nvidia and enjoy supporting the underdog (I know several of them) or b) people like me who absolutely require a silent PC. AMD are way ahead of Nvidia when it comes to the maximum performance of passively cooled GPUs and that is why I liked this article. I have been waiting for ages for an AT article regarding how AMD 3DHD folds out.
While I know this is not a 3DHD in-depth review, the fact that you blamed the artifacts in the games on purely the monitor (it seemed that way), is a bit disappointing. There are also the IZ3D drivers. This article also has a mission of showing a glance of the 3D gaming capability of the monitor. It would have been nice to see you try another driver, especially since there's only -one- other. That might have given you a better experience.