Samsung S23A750D 3D LCD Display
by Chris Heinonen on December 17, 2011 2:45 PM ESTSamsung S23A750D 3D and 120Hz Testing
Of course, you can’t review the S23A750 without talking about 3D. The Samsung uses a TN panel that operates at a true 120Hz with active shutter glasses. This allows for a full 60Hz per eye at full resolution, which should allow for a very smooth, fluid, and detailed 3D image as long as your video card can support it. Once again, you’ll need to use DisplayPort to get the full 120Hz at native resolution. This appears to be a limitation with either the AMD GPU (using an HDMI connection didn't allow me to force 120Hz), or it may be that the HDMI chipset in the Samsung simply lacks the ability to handle 1080p120. We've seen 1080p120 over HDMI with other displays using a different GPU, so the cause of the limitation isn't clear.
One of the most important things with a 3D display is how little crosstalk there is between the two eyes. The liquid crystal matrices in LCDs don’t realign instantly but have a bit of decay time, thus as the active shutter glasses switch from eye to eye there is a potential for some of the image in one eye to persist and be present on the other eye. This is easiest to spot when there is an edge with a dark color against a light color, as the crosstalk will look almost like a shadow. There are also some test patterns available to measure this, and I did so using an AccuPel DPG-5000 pattern generator.
As you can see, there was very little crosstalk between the two eyes. However, testing was done using a pattern generator running at 1080p60 over HDMI and not at 120Hz. Without the ability to test a true 1080p120 signal over DisplayPort, it's difficult to say how things will change—it could improve (faster switching) or deteriorate (more crosstalk as each image is only active for 8.3ms instead of 16.7ms). As we look at additional 3D displays in the future, we'll use the Samsung results as a baseline. What I can say is that I could see some instances of crosstalk when viewing 3D films, but it wasn't too bad—about what I've come to expect from 3D movies on the big screen.
As for gaming tests, while there are a lot of games that can be played in 3D modes, as noted earlier NVIDIA's 3D Vision currently has much more support than AMD's HD3D. Given the AMD GPU on hand and the included HD3D support in the S23A, that's what we chose to test with, and I put in a good amount of time playing a few of the supported titles. Many of these had 3D tacked on (long) after the initial release. In theory this should work fine as you can just shift the camera slightly for each eye to get a 3D image; however, it doesn’t always work out right. For example, during the intro in Half-Life 2, the giant face that appears doesn’t render correctly in 3D. Likewise in World of Warcraft, you get a ghost image to both sides that someone described to me as tracers, which seems as good a description as any. You do get a sense of depth, but you also get a lot of artifacts that to me are more distracting than the 3D is a benefit.
Unfortunately while 3D on the AV side has been mostly sorted out (1080p24 frame packed is the standard), it’s not that way on the PC side quite yet. Using the same standard as your TV would result in a refresh rate of 24Hz or a maximum resolution of 720p, and no one wants that. The Samsung was sent along with an AMD video card as that is what it is designed to be used with, and searching the web for data on this shows that there isn’t native support for NVIDIA 3D vision yet. I did find reports that you can make it work with NVIDIA hardware by forcing on support inside your game, and then forcing 3D on the Samsung display (using the 3D button on the pedestal stand), but the lack of standardization really hurts. Hopefully this gets sorted out soon and 3D is simply plug-and-play in the future on the PC.
I also admit that active 3D really does not sit well with me. I’m not certain if it’s the refresh rate or something else, but it causes me a headache in no time at all. I’ve seen one active 3D system so far that hasn’t caused me discomfort, but that was a $30,000 projector and you'd expect a near-perfect experience from such hardware. I had others try out the monitor and they didn’t get the same reaction to 3D that I did, so I'd recommend any potential buyers try to give the monitor an in-person test before purchasing.
While the 120Hz is required to operate in 3D, it also means you can work at a true 120Hz in 2D mode. I hadn’t considered this before the display arrived, but 120Hz was somewhat of a revelation. Small things you are used to, such as a window tearing when you drag it across the screen, don’t happen nearly as much or to the same degree. Motion in games was far smoother and more natural than you normally see. It’s long been claimed that 60Hz is where things become perfectly smooth for human vision, but while 60Hz might be "natural", 120Hz appears even more so. When I think of improvements that I’d want in my display going forward, 120Hz or even 240Hz refresh would be on that list. Of course, getting 120Hz with something better than a TN panel is really what I'd like.
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DanNeely - Monday, December 19, 2011 - link
LCDs do have potential ghosting issues from other factors; this threads so busy arguing in the weeds that it's missing the whole point.cjb110 - Sunday, December 18, 2011 - link
Minor feedback, but I think it would be better if there was a more sensible order to the pictures. I'd expect to see overview shots first and then details like the ports on the back! It's not just this article either, a few have had an 'odd' order to the pictures.Also I'd drop the power supply tale... initially thought something had gone wrong and munged two articles together! When I re-read it I thought maybe you were trying to say I *needed* a decent PSU for this monitor...which made even less sense! Still not quite sure what PSU's have to do with monitors!
UzairH - Sunday, December 18, 2011 - link
AT you have lately been reviewing TN monitors, including some pretty crappy ones, and I feel this is not helping to push the manufacturers towards introducing better quality panels (since I believe that AT reviews do have some influence on hardware manufacturers).The monitor industry has stagnated with a glut of TN panels and few IPS ones. Instead of progressing to higher resolutions and greater bit depth, what new IPS panels we are getting are actually 6-bit. It is ludicrous that the smartphones are getting higher resolutions than new notebooks and ultrabooks!
cactusdog - Sunday, December 18, 2011 - link
Stop making ignorant comments please.120Hz is a technology breakthrough. It is the future, actually the future is here but some people are stuck in the past, and comparing monitors based on old technolgy.
Most guys I know are selling their U2711's for this 120Hz monitor. If you're a gamer this monitor(or another 120hz monitor) is a must have.
This monitor compares well and has better colours than most 6 bit IPS, so saying IPS is always better is wrong. Moving image quality on a 120Hz TN monitor is MUCH better than a 60Hz IPS or VA. It also has a much clearer panel.
Sure, if you're a photographer or use cad, the higher resolution 8 Bit IPS are the way to go but as a gaming/media panel this is much better. The clear panel looks much better than Dell's crappy AG coating.
It would be nice if they introduce some 120Hz IPS or VA panels but this monitor is much better than most on the market today.
Anyway, Chris the reviewer must be new to Samsung menus, I dont have any problem with mine, but there is a knack to it that comes with experience.
Also I'm not sure if you used frame sequencial 3D when testing the 3D, most reviewers use the wrong mode when testing 3D on a AMD card.
Other reviewers have this monitor as the fastest ever tested for response time and lag, did you use the "faster" setting Chris?
If you're a gamer and still on 60Hz you're missing out.
aranyagag - Sunday, December 18, 2011 - link
I used to get annoyed whenever my dad used to say --" video games kill your brain cells" and would argue against it.Now if he said the same thing today I would say " I agree and they fry the cones (retina) too". I mean there are all these gamer panels, short (nothing taller than 16:9), low bit depth, Low resolution, TN panels. If gamers buy these there has to be something wrong with their retina as well as their neurons.
YUK
Pantsu - Sunday, December 18, 2011 - link
I don't know what's the deal with AT articles these days, but I jumped into this one straight from a RSS link, and it just jumped straight into action without any introduction whatsoever. I know there's a brief introductory piece on the front page, but I kinda miss a proper introduction chapter.This article as a whole seemed quite rushed, and didn't cover even all the basics. It's nice that there's calibration tests, but it didn't even mention that the monitor comes with Samsung's 3D glasses and Tridef software was only briefly mentioned in the conclusion. Overall the 3D section of the review was quite lacking.
I do agree the capacitive touch buttons on monitors are annoying in general and unresponsive at times, but at least this one had them illuminated, unlike my older LG 120 Hz panel, where the capacitive buttons were impossible to detect other than in perfect lighting conditions.
After a month or two of using this monitor I'd go as far as say it's probably the best 23" 120 Hz monitor out there at the moment. The only big problem is the glossy reflections, you really need to think about your room lighting before you buy a glossy monitor. Also the lack of physical adjustments might scare off some people. Other than that the Samsung panel doesn't have the viewing angle problems as bad as most TN. It works perfectly as my center monitor for my Eyefinity setup since it has thin bezels too.
ananduser - Sunday, December 18, 2011 - link
They should take a page out of Xbit Labs' monitor reviews.cheinonen - Sunday, December 18, 2011 - link
Thanks for the feedback. I'll work on making it so the review isn't so rushed at the start when coming from an RSS feed, though I don't want to have redundant information for people coming from the front page either. When the monitor was setup and in use, I really enjoyed it, but the controls on my unit were so sensitive and often unresponsive that it led me to hate to adjust it, which was a huge issue in the end. While performance is undoubtedly important, poor ergonomics and UI can make even the best product something you wouldn't want to use on a daily basis.I'm trying to get out of a backlog of displays for review so everything in the future will be as fresh as possible, but I'll make sure to be more careful than usual on the next few reviews so that any issues with readability or captions are fixed. It's also always a fine line between making assumptions about what needs to be explained in detail (such as 3D) and what can be assumed as common knowledge, as many people don't want to slog through a 5,000 word review that goes into depth about things that most people might already know. Getting feedback on what was too detailed, and what was lacking, makes future reviews better as we can properly tailor them to what people expect.
aranyagag - Sunday, December 18, 2011 - link
I agree the article seemed very abrupt. I also jumped to it via an RSS then went to the home page of AT and back again -- I though I had missed a page or 2.Starzty - Sunday, December 18, 2011 - link
Does the monitor not support 3d through HDMI using 3D Vision? You can usually force a 120hz signal through HDMI even on 3dtv displays. I have never heard of 120hz only through displayport before