Mobile GPU Faceoff: AMD Dynamic Switchable Graphics vs. NVIDIA Optimus Technology
by Jarred Walton on September 20, 2011 6:40 AM ESTAMD Compatibility with Recent Titles
Along with performance, we also need to discuss compatibility for the recent releases. In something of a surprise, considering the AMD driver date and the release dates of the various games, we actually managed to run all of the games without major issues on both laptops. However, application based switching didn’t always work for AMD, requiring us to use manual switching in a few instances. There was also at least one instance where manual switching had problems, requiring us to use dynamic switching. We’ll have a video and additional discussion of our concerns with the AMD UI and switchable graphics implementation on the next page, but here’s how the games stack up in terms of compatibility for both AMD and NVIDIA.
In the “works as expected” category, Duke Nukem Forever, Portal 2, and The Witcher 2 all ran without any noteworthy issues. Deus Ex: Human Revolution also ran fine, but there was no way to use application-based switching and have it run on the Intel IGP (no loss, really). The same problem occurred with DiRT 3, but with a few extra glitches. First, there was a black border on the right side of the screen—approximately 80 or so pixels wide—that shouldn’t be there; it was present regardless of resolution and even in windowed mode. Second, in manual switching mode DiRT 3 did not render properly in full screen viewing, but worked in a window. Running in a window is not a good solution, so this is a pretty serious glitch. Super Street Fighter IV: Arcade Edition on the other hand ran fine on the IGP in dynamic mode, but on the dGPU the models wouldn’t animate properly and in general the game was unplayable. The workaround is to use manual switching (which may or may not be supported on all laptops—Sony’s VAIO C supports it, and HP added the fixed function switching option in an updated BIOS for the dv6/dv7 laptops), after which the game runs properly. Also worth noting is that a few titles appear to run somewhat faster in manual switching mode, SSF4 and SC2 being two examples.
Besides the above six “new” titles, it’s important to note that all OpenGL titles are currently unsupported by dynamic switching (e.g. Enemy Territory: Quake Wars, Minecraft, presumably Rage when it launches, and as far as we know all other OpenGL apps/games). The workaround is to use fixed function (manual) switching, similar to what we had to do for Street Fighter IV—which means you’ll want to make sure your laptop supports manual switching in some form. AMD informs us that they have a working solution for OpenGL dynamic switching, but it isn’t fully tested yet. It should come out in an updated driver, hopefully before the end of this year (*cough* Rage *cough*). Then we’ll need to see Sony and HP (and anyone else using AMD switchable graphics) to release their own updated driver, and this feels like more of a question of “if” rather than “when”.
NVIDIA Compatibility and Thoughts
All of our discussions so far have centered on AMD’s Dynamic Switchable Graphics implementation and any problems we encountered. What about NVIDIA’s Optimus Technology? First, we immediately note that NVIDIA is at an advantage here, since the 280.26 WHQL drivers we used are only a month old (and there’s a new 285.27 beta driver from last week available now). While our testing is by no means fully comprehensive, so far the only issue we encountered out of the 16+ tested games is in Total War: Shogun 2. The game runs fine, but we are unable to select the Very High preset. Our best guess is that the game is querying the Intel IGP/drivers and limiting a few settings based on the detected capabilities. (We saw a similar issue in the older Empire: Total War in the past, except the last we checked it was limited to the Medium preset.) For someone with a high-end laptop (e.g. GTX 580M), the Very High settings might be desirable, but for 99% of laptops you’ll need to run at High or even Medium settings to get acceptable performance from Shogun 2. Overall, NVIDIA’s Optimus Technology is clearly the more mature and easier to use dynamic switching technology right now.
The only area I can come up with where Optimus isn’t desirable is if you want to run Linux, which isn’t high on NVIDIA’s list of priorities right now—in fact, they’ve said they’re not even going to bother trying to make Optimus work with Linux. This doesn’t make AMD’s switchable graphics solution superior in Linux, unless something has changed and the AMD drivers (or the open-source initiative for AMD GPUs) have improved since the last time we looked. I also have no idea whether AMD’s Dynamic Switchable Graphics works under Linux; it appears that AMD is doing some extra work in their drivers to make things run under Windows, so they might have the same issue as Optimus under Linux. I can’t say it really matters to me either way, as I don’t run Linux, but if you do feel free to add in your comments on which GPU vendor is better, and any information on how the switchable graphics solutions fare. My hunch is that a discrete-only NVIDIA GPU is still the way to go, and if you’re really into Linux the old-style manual switchable graphics with muxes is the better solution.
Summary of Compatibility
Our list of tested titles is obviously limited—I’m only one person, and even with a month of testing there’s only so much I can do—but so far we have yet to find a title that absolutely would not work on either the Sony or Acer laptops. For Acer (NVIDIA Optimus), nearly all games/applications worked without any extra fiddling, but you may need to manually add newer titles (or wait for NVIDIA to release a profile update). On Optimus, the only choice is to run in dynamic switching mode, but that’s generally fine because it works so well. On AMD, depending on the game you might need to select either dynamic switching or manual switching, and if you’re playing multiple games (or using some other GPU enabled application) you will very likely have to go back and forth during the course of a day of gaming. That may sound reasonable, but a lot of users want something that just works without a bunch of extra fussing around, and AMD is coming up short in that area. So, let’s go through changes and annoyances we’ve experienced in testing the Sony VAIO C, specifically as it relates to AMD’s switchable graphics.
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fynamo - Wednesday, September 21, 2011 - link
Tried all of the driver tweaks, forced browsers hw accel, all to no avail. Firefox and Chrome both will use only IGP despite forcing them in NVIDIA control panel.In reality, most people aren't going to notice CSS3 sluggishness because very few sites actually employ CSS3 currently. But as a developer of bleeding-edge apps that are indeed using CSS3, and which we are also developing for mobile, I am HIGHLY sensitive to performance.
As stated - on Optimus, css3 performance sucks. On AMD, css3 performance is orders of magnitude better.
The other issue is with resizing and dragging windows. I noticed that the "SYSTEM" process in Task Manager (Windows 7 64) spikes to use a single full CPU core while resizing or dragging a window, and the drag / move animation slows to ~10 FPS or less. I did NOT have this problem on my "old" Radeon 3670 machine.
The same tests on a desktop, also with Windows 7 64 and with a Radeon 6850 (no IGP), show liquid-smooth and no CPU spike.
I've tested multiple Optimus systems and all have this problem, but my tests with AMD systems have yielded good results each time.
Spazweasel - Tuesday, September 20, 2011 - link
When people ask why I stick with nVidia graphics cards, this article sums up all my reasons well:1. nVidia for many years has done a much better job of delivering timely driver updates, better driver stability, and multi-GPU scaling. SLI "just works". Crossfire is a crapshoot.
2. I have never had a problem with a game that was related to an nVidia driver. I cannot say the same of AMD.
3. AMD certainly has somewhat faster hardware at a given price point, but that doesn't matter if the games crash, if the driver UI sucks, or they can't get their partners to deliver what few driver updates there are.
4. I have many friends and acquaintances in the gaming industry. Without exception, they have reported that nVidia is much, much easier to deal with and is more responsive to the concerns of game developers than AMD. nVidia will often give you some of their own engineer-time to help you work through a problem, while AMD's response is "RTFM, go away, stop bothering us". This is likely why games have fewer driver-related issues upon initial release with nVidia than AMD; nVidia will help you before your game is on the market (and include the necessary changes to their drivers in advance of the game's release), while AMD is unresponsive during development, and often well into retail.
Secondarily, never buy a Sony computing product. You'd better be happy with the drivers that come with it, because you're not going to see new ones. Over the years I've had two laptops made by Sony, and both were orphaned within 18 months of purchase (driver updates on OSs which were current when the product was new stopped, and newer OSs never got a driver at all). Sony is terrible at ongoing driver support, regardless of what the hardware category (video, audio, input device, peripheral connection hardware) is. I've come to the conclusion that there is nothing software-related which Sony can get right, on either a technical nor ethical basis, and that planned obsolescence through early termination of software support is explicitly part of their business strategy.
My most recent AMD experience is a 4870, which was (and is) fast, loud, and unstable. I've thought about a 6570 for an HTPC, mostly for thermal reasons and packaging reasons (if you want a quiet, cool video card capable of moderate detail-level gaming to feed a 720p TV that is low-profile, you're pretty much limited to AMD), so it's about time for me to see if anything's changed. In the meantime, for my heavy-duty gaming machine, it's nVidia and will remain so until AMD's driver team gets its act together, regardless of how nice AMD's hardware is. Seriously, the hardware team at AMD needs to put the beat-down on the Catalyst guys; the driver team is making everyone look bad.
tecknurd - Wednesday, September 21, 2011 - link
I completely agree. ATI never wrote reliable and stable drivers. Also they gave me a run-around by saying to update to the latest drivers which I did at the time, but the graphic drivers still crashed my setup. Now AMD owns ATI and they have the same faults as ATI. People say that Radeon graphics is good, but this article shows they do not care for reliability and stability which are require for GUI.I switched to nVidia because of poor driver support from ATI. Also poor driver support in Linux for Radeon graphics. IMHO, the open source community does a better job writing drivers for Radeon graphics compared to AMD.
I would buy AMD for their CPU but not for their graphics.
chinedooo - Wednesday, September 21, 2011 - link
haha the dv6t with a 6770m would kill all these other laptops. And it switches perfectly too. I get like 6-7 hrs web browsing on mine.chinedooo - Wednesday, September 21, 2011 - link
Another difference between the two is the vram. the 6700 series uses gddr5. makes a world of difference.Hrel - Wednesday, September 21, 2011 - link
"and the user can add their own custom apps". Does this mean we can pick and choose if the dgpu is on or off on a per app basis? I spoke to Nvidia and they said you CAN do that in the Nvidia control panel. I just don't know how. I have the Clevo P151HM laptop, so maybe the option isn't even there on mine. I'd still like you guys to tell us how to do this, assuming it's possible.Side note, I'm annoyed this laptop only accepts drivers from Clevo, and not from Nvidia.
tanjo - Wednesday, September 21, 2011 - link
3 years and it's still not working properly???The best solution is to add ultra low power 2D power state on dGPUs.
orangpelupa - Wednesday, September 21, 2011 - link
actually you can install GENERIC driver from ATi to update the laptop with switchable graphic.just dont use the auto detect app from ATi. it useless. always decline to download the driver....
i have been long time using Acer with Intel + Radeon HD 5650. i can always update the ATi driver using generic from ati website.
for acer i just install the 11-8_mobility_vista_win7_64_dd_ccc.exe
but if the installer decline to install, you can update while using modded inf
http://game.bramantya.org/modded-inf-ati-mobility-... (sorry have not uploaded the 11.8 modded inf)
if still failed, can update manually from device manager.
just make sure before doing any update with "generic" driver is graphic switched to dGPU mode from the shortcut in right click menu in desktop.
that updating generic, work old laptop with "screen flicker when switch graphic". so i dont know if its work with the new dynamic switching ATi.
Anyone with this new DYNAMIC switching want to try?
my2cents - Wednesday, September 21, 2011 - link
Just my 2 cents. I was searching around web and found site, some blog, where some dude is creating ATI + Intel switchable graphics. I own myself a Vaio VPC-SA2S9R. Just google "leshcat_dot_blogspot_dot_com". Works good so far.RenderB - Wednesday, September 21, 2011 - link
Sadly the nvidia tool isn't doing much better. Have the same optimus config as tested, but from asus. The auto detect will always tell me to go get drivers from clearcube.