The Apple Thunderbolt Display Review
by Anand Lal Shimpi on September 23, 2011 2:56 AM EST- Posted in
- Displays
- Mac
- Apple
- Thunderbolt
- Thunderbolt Display
Trouble in Promise-land
What's the first thing you do when you've got a display that has tons of interfaces and bandwidth at its disposal? Try them all at once to see if anything breaks of course. Over the course of the past few days that's exactly what I did. Unfortunately I did find a situation where things broke.
For whatever reason, if you're doing a lot of writes to the Promise Pegasus while playing music (or any other constant audio) through the Thunderbolt Display's internal speakers the audio will eventually corrupt. You can hear exactly what I'm talking about below:
TB Pegasus Audio Issue by AnandTech
This is a recording taken of me listening to music on the Thunderbolt Display (via its internal speakers) while writing a couple hundred gigabytes to the Pegasus R6. Note the introduction of what can only be described as really bad noise at the 6 second marker.
If you stop music playback and quickly resume, the problem will still be there. You have to restart the application that's using the audio codec to recover from this point. From a hardware standpoint, the codec just needs to go through an off/on (sleep/wake?) cycle to return back to normal. If you do this however and haven't stopped the transfer, the problem will creep up again. Stopping the transfer while playing back music won't fix the issue either. You have to stop the transfer and restart the music playback application for it to go away.
The issue goes deeper than that. I went out and bought a Creative Labs X-Fi Go Pro USB sound card to see if the problem stopped at the internal audio codec or extended to all USB sound devices. Unfortunately, it does even happen if you're using an external USB sound card connected to the Thunderbolt Display. Connect the same sound card directly to your Mac or use your Mac's 1/8" stereo jack and the problem goes away.
I was worried that what may appear as noise through speakers could result in data corruption over USB transfers. I ran the Pegasus write test while copying a bunch of files to an SSD attached via USB to the Thunderbolt Display and never saw any corruption on the SSD. This appears to be limited entirely to audio playback.
What's truly bizarre is I can only get the issue to appear when writing to the Pegasus, hundreds of GBs of sequential reads don't seem to produce it. Short bursts of writes don't seem to cause it either. Sending tons of data across the monitor's Gigabit Ethernet, FireWire 800 and USB ports doesn't seem to trigger it either. It appears to be an issue with the Pegasus and the Thunderbolt Display. But which device is ultimately at fault? Is it a problem with the Thunderbolt Display or the Pegasus? Ideally I'd use another Thunderbolt storage device to see if the issue remained, but I couldn't get my hands on a LaCie Little Big Disk.
I thought of something else.
First I needed to test and see if perhaps the issue was related to ultra high speed transfers. As we've already shown, the Pegasus can push as much as 1GB/s over Thunderbolt whereas none of the other bandwidth eaters come even remotely close to that. To determine if the issue was data rate invariant I wrote to the Pegasus at different speeds ranging from 480Mbps all the way up to 7.2Gbps. I tried putting SSDs in the Pegasus as well as standard mechanical hard drives. The problem remained. I got audio corruption regardless of what drives were in the Pegasus or what speed I wrote to the drives. The problem wasn't related to transfer rates.
I also took apart the Thunderbolt Display to confirm there weren't any obvious issues on the controller board (E.g. putting the Thunderbolt IC far too close to the audio controller). Nothing obvious there either.
While I was doing all of this, Apple put forth a Thunderbolt firmware update the other day, however it didn't seem to address the issue either. So I went back to my testing.
Since the problem appeared regardless of how fast (or slow) I was transferring and all I needed was another Thunderbolt storage device to vindicate either the Pegasus or the Thunderbolt Display I turned to the trusty MacBook Air.
As I mentioned in our original Pegasus review, if you have two Thunderbolt equipped Macs and a Thunderbolt cable you can actually put one of the machines in target disk mode and access its drives via Thunderbolt on the remaining Mac. You don't get super high performance but you can get around 500Mbps. Since I had reproduced the audio corruption issue at an even slower data rate I decided to give this a try.
I booted the MacBook Air in target disk mode by holding down the 't' key after turning on the machine. My MacBook Pro was connected to the Apple Thunderbolt Display and a Thunderbolt cable connected the display to the MacBook Air. This was the same setup as the Pegasus, but with the MBA in place of the Pegasus.
I wrote to the MBA just like I did the Pegasus (from a file server connected over the Thunderbolt Display's GigE, transfer rates were capped at around 500Mbps from the file server). After a couple hundred gigabytes were transferred without any audio corruption I swapped out the MBA and connected the Pegasus. I copied the same files at the same rate from the same source. After no more than 7GBs were written to the Pegasus the audio stream started to corrupt.
Based on my testing I can only conclude that the Pegasus seems to be at fault here, not the Thunderbolt Display. Given that the Pegasus was introduced prior to Apple's Thunderbolt Display it's not all that surprising that this issue made it through to production. It's unclear what the root cause is but it's hopefully something Promise can address either through firmware or a driver revision.
Update: I'm still verifying that this is indeed a "fix" but it looks like if you use a USB sound card plugged into a USB hub which is then plugged into the Thunderbolt Display then the sound corruption doesn't happen. This seems to point at noisy power as being the cause with the USB hub acting as a crude filter. It's still not ideal but this may be a workaround for Pegasus users until Promise supplies a fix.
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Omid.M - Saturday, September 24, 2011 - link
Anand to smile at the camera and point to the lower right of the screen at a QR code that launches a mail client with a URL to the review...to share with others. Oops, thinking outloud.@moids
You get my email a while back, Anand? I know you've been slammed with your schedule!
nameless_1 - Saturday, September 24, 2011 - link
You could have this ten years ago without plugging any cables at all, not even two. Just buy a docking station for your laptop. Or is the news that it is finally possible on a Mac...ufon68 - Saturday, September 24, 2011 - link
Awesome video.Death666Angel - Saturday, September 24, 2011 - link
"Thanks to SSDs, Turbo Boost and Thunderbolt the only thing holding notebooks back from being true desktop replacements is GPU performance."And the fact that performance per buck is still about 3 to 5 times worse than any desktop PC. Unless you are very well off or need a notebook for your work, chances are, you can't afford a real desktop replacement notebook.
tommyj - Saturday, September 24, 2011 - link
A typical i5 laptop, which is like $600 (Thinkpad Edge), basically does what a typical desktop does extremely well and comes with a keyboard, pointing device, and screen if you are really destitute. As Anand said, the only thing holding them back is the GPU and frankly a lot of people cannot really use one properly (if you don't play games and don't dabble with professional applications, its going to sit idle). Spend another $100-250 and you can throw a very nice SSD to make it feel really snappy.If you want to bring up Apple, the base Macbook Air is like $1000 and its powerful enough for every task people need to do. For most users, even those who use their machines for prosumer purposes, processor speed becomes less of a necessity but a luxury really.
Increasingly, people are finding desktops less and less worthwhile. The only reason I still own, and upgrade, mine is because it can hold the latest and greatest GPU.
bigpics - Saturday, September 24, 2011 - link
As someone else pointed out to me, notebook performance, especially light-weight notebook performance is changing on more important variables more quickly than monitor tech.So this monitor suggests a new cost effective strategy for a one-machine-to-do-it-all setup. This should work out well as long as you don't need the latest, latest performance bumps in the MBP line while on the road (or the top iMac performance at home).
The strategy is to buy the best MB Air + this monitor, and then replace the CPU piece every year or two - when the available air performance will stay equivalent to the performance of a one or two year old pro. (And note that while some performance is incrementally sacrificed, portability is incrementally increased - AND you get this gorgeous screen - which might meet some users' needs better in the first place.)
Here's a current high-end MBP 15":
$2,999.00
2.2GHz Quad-core Intel Core i7
8GB 1333MHz DDR3 SDRAM - 2x4GB
256GB Solid State Drive
SuperDrive 8x (DVD±R DL/DVD±RW/CD-RW)
MacBook Pro 15-inch Hi-Res Glossy Widescreen Display
And here's a current high-end MBA 13.3" INCLUDING the Thunderbolt monitor:
$2777.00
Apple Thunderbolt Display (27-inch) ($999)
MBA 13.3" ($1778)
1.8GHz Dual-Core Intel Core i7
4GB 1333MHz DDR3 SDRAM
256GB flash storage
External Apple MacBook Air SuperDrive
Of course some of you might need and be able to get both the MBP and the monitor - lucky you, but let's say you have SOME real world budget constraints, and over the next six years, you replace the MBA twice (at 2 and 4 years in) as it advances, and the MBP once (3 years in).
Assuming constant prices - not entirely unreasonable with Apple speculation - and a 6 year usable lifetime for the monitor (even though it will certainly be upgraded with, say, USB 3 and more - but the same cost to replace in either strategy), here's your total bill (exclusive of other peripherals, cables, etc.):
1. You have this monitor and a three year old MBP 15":
$6997 spent.
(Add the cost of iPads if the MBP is just too much for some outings and you need something lighter)
2. You have this monitor and two year old MBA (of whatever "):
$6333 spent.
So a reasonable approach I would say (and even wonder if Apple's not encouraging it in some ways). Consider one last comparison - your best stay at home (no notebook capabiity) iMac options. And we'll specify that some of you will want more net and more capable apps on the road than you can get on your phone, so you'll meet your away from home needs with three baseline iPads over the 6 years
3. So here's for two top of the line iMacs and possible iPads:
$6798 spent on iMacs
$1497 on iPads
$ 8295 spent
One more cost saving (over a height adjustable desk) possiblity: a. Old phone books (free) and b) height adjustable chairs (a few hundred more at most).
sreams - Saturday, September 24, 2011 - link
When you close the Macbook Air, you aren't "sleeping" it. You're just closing it.dsumanik - Sunday, September 25, 2011 - link
nice production sound, and dialogue on the video..well done.Some problems though unfortunately:
"Personally, I use a height adjustable desk as I find it helps me avoid any carpal tunnel pain. Combined with a height adjustable chair, the lack of height adjustment on the display doesn't bother me."
Uh huh.
I should buy this display and get an adjustable desk.
Thats the OBVIOUS solution.
Not only a facepalm by apple's designers...(i mean how hard would it be to make it adjustable a few inches?) but also a total facepalm in the pro apple bias department.
This review was a commercial for apple, plain and simple.
Why not start accepting payment from apple?
You might as well if you gonna be a part of thier marketing team.
Your own words:
"a must have item for macbook owners"
PFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFTTTTT.
ill save people the 15 minute advertisement;
pros:
single cable to connect and charge
nice material and design
cons:
-no sound
-no usb 3
-incompatible with anything but 2011 macbooks
-1000 dollars (i could buy 5 1920x1080 displays for same price)
-you need to buy an adjustable desk and chair
Amazing what you can sell people if it comes in a nice shiny package...even a seasoned, unpaid, objective and intelligent reviewer fell for it hook line and sinker.
hey apple if you reading this...
Where my integrated iphone dock?
Constructor - Sunday, September 25, 2011 - link
He simply said that he had that anyway, so the lack of height adjustability didn't bother him.
And I shudder to think how heavy and still wobbly a height-adjustable stand would have to be for my 27" iMac. The TBD is not quite as heavy, but I rather live with an additional socket to get it to the desired height for me than dealing with the usual wobbly mechanism I know from other monitors (such as the secondary Samsung next to the iMac, which also needs an additional stand to get it high enough). I'm rather tall and most adjustable stands end too low anyway, so there would be no benefit for me anyway.
Quite hard to make it really sufficient. Just "a few inches" are worthless. Inclination adjustment is enough for that. And making an iMac 27" or a TBD adjustable by the amount I really needed would make the stand very wobbly and/or very heavy and very wide.
This is a lot more difficult than you seem to get.
"Pfft" indeed. You completely misrepresent what Anand actually said: "For MacBook Air owners who don't have options for these high speed interfaces to begin with, the Thunderbolt Display is a must-have."
Further: For me the Thunderbolt Display is good but not perfect. I wish it had a 1/8" stereo output, an SD card reader and USB 3.0 support. Give me those things and I'd be ecstatic. There's always next year's model.
It seems you are the one who's suffering from a heavily distorted perception here.
- very high resolution (2560*1440) high-grade IPS display
- multiple expansion ports, including Gigabit Ethernet and FireWire 800
- built-in speakers, microphone and HD webcam
Wrong. It's got built-in speakers (and a microphone). It only has no additional audio output socket (every MacBook has one already built in).
Also wrong. All recent iMacs and Mac minis plus all further upcoming Macs plus many upcoming PCs will also be able to use it.
Sure. The problem is that they are low-grade TN displays with a much lower resolution with not much more than half the number of pixels of the TBD, which also has a much higher-grade IPS panel.
I've got one of those lower-grade TN panels as a secondary monitor next to my iMac 27", and the difference both in resolution and in contrast range is substantial. The Apple display is definitely worth its price, even and especially in direct comparison, which I have.
I'm tempted to replace that secondary display with another Apple 27" display.
Nonsense. I've just propped it up on a socket on the table. And most shorter people won't even need that.
It seems you've had trouble understanding both the product and the review yourself.
If you have no use for a product on that level, that is perfectly all right. But other people do have an interest in new technology, and reviews like Anand's, which went very much into the depths of the new base technology, are among the reasons why technology journalism has an important role to begin with.
Apple just happens to be the one pushing this new technology. If you want to complain about something, complain about PC manufacturers sitting on their hands while Apple is running away with new technology and an increasing share of the market profits earned.
Constructor - Sunday, September 25, 2011 - link
Quoting seems to be broken. There have been paragraphs (double newlines) between the quotes and the comment. Weird.