Promise Pegasus R6 & Mac Thunderbolt Review
by Anand Lal Shimpi on July 8, 2011 2:01 AM ESTTarget Display Mode with an iMac
In our 2011 iMac review I mentioned that you could use the new iMac as an external display if, and only if, you had a Thunderbolt cable connecting it to a 2011 MacBook Pro. When I reviewed the iMac, you couldn't buy a Thunderbolt cable. Now you can.
The process is pretty simple. Just connect any 2011 MacBook Pro to any 2011 iMac via a Thunderbolt cable. Hit Cmd + F2 on the iMac's keyboard and boom, your brand new iMac is now a secondary display for your MacBook Pro. Note that you need a modern Apple keyboard for this to work. Older Apple keyboards and some non-Apple keyboards won't send the right key code and will refuse to activate target display mode on the iMac.
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The iMac has to be fully powered on when this happens. You do lose all keyboard/mouse support on the iMac, however the machine doesn't go to sleep when in this mode - it'll remain on, although likely in a low power state. Any applications you have open on the iMac will remain open. Any music playing on the iMac will continue to play and you don't get use of the iMac's speakers from your MacBook Pro.
15-inch MacBook Pro (2011) + 27-inch iMac (2011) running in Target Display Mode
For 2011, this is admittedly an odd usage model. I'm not sure how many people want to connect their brand new MacBook Pro to a brand new iMac and use the latter as just a display. Down the road I can see this being a good feature as it lets you upgrade to faster MacBook Pros and still use your iMac as a larger display if you'd like.
I would prefer it if the iMac allowed itself to boot into a minimal environment where only the display and necessary ICs were powered, leaving the CPU, GPU, hard drive and the rest of the system mostly powered down. I suspect Thunderbolt complicates this as the controller needs a number of components powered up before it'll function. Perhaps future versions of the iMac can find a way around this limitation however.
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etamin - Sunday, July 10, 2011 - link
hmm, I think I'm missing something here. Are you saying that the new MBPs have 12 lanes to the dGPU because 4 have been borrowed (on demand?) by the TB controller? or does the PCH has its PCI lanes? if so, how many? Thanks for the reply.repoman27 - Sunday, July 10, 2011 - link
Anand explained it in his review of the mid 2011 iMac, here: http://www.anandtech.com/show/4340/27inch-apple-im...etamin - Monday, July 11, 2011 - link
I see...I never noticed the PCH/SB always had PCI lanes of its ownrepoman27 - Saturday, July 9, 2011 - link
"At the end of a Thunderbolt chain you can insert a miniDP display, currently the only option is the 27-inch LED Cinema Display but in theory other panels that accept a miniDP input could work as well."Any DisplayPort enabled display will work, and there's plenty of those. You just need to use an asymmetrical cable. Just like you don't need a display with a mini/micro HDMI port to use the mini/micro HDMI out on the devices that have those. Or a PC with mini/micro USB ports.
mAxius - Sunday, July 10, 2011 - link
intel and apple will have thunderbolt the rest of the planet will have external pci express and usb who will winhttp://www.eetimes.com/electronics-news/4217190/PC...
Focher - Sunday, July 10, 2011 - link
According to that article, their standard is due for mid 2013. It's slower than TB and it's not even real. They've just announced plans to make something.repoman27 - Sunday, July 10, 2011 - link
“I'm not entirely convinced that we're limited by Thunderbolt here either - it could very well be the Pegasus' internal controller that's limiting performance.”I’m pretty sure what you’ve gone and done here is bumped into the ceiling imposed by the CPUs in those Macs only supporting a PCIe maximum TLP payload size of 128 bytes. You achieved a little better than 80% of the total 10 Gbps bandwidth available on one Thunderbolt channel in actual data throughput, which is surprisingly good. Even though that bandwidth is exclusive of PCIe’s normal 8b/10b encoding overhead, there’s no getting around the additional overhead inherent to any packetized protocol. A Thunderbolt controller paired with a northbridge that supports 4096 byte payload sizes could theoretically achieve around 99% of the full 10 Gbps.
You’ve also shown that one device using a single Thunderbolt channel can use > 50% of the bandwidth of the 4 PCIe 2.0 lanes connected to the Thunderbolt controller. Thus if you connected one 4-drive SF-2281 Pegasus R6 RAID-0 to each of the Thunderbolt ports on the 2011 iMac, you still shouldn’t expect more than 12,833 Mbps combined throughput.
The Target Disk Mode results are disappointing, although you’re always limited to the speed of the slowest drive that you’re transferring to/from. You didn’t mention what the iMac was packing, but if it’s still just the 1 TB 7200 RPM Seagate that was in the model you reviewed earlier, that would be the limiting factor. Did you check to see what you could pull using FireWire Target Mode between the two?
“simply displaying an image at 60Hz on the 27-inch Cinema Display requires over 6.75Gbps of bandwidth (because of 8b/10b encoding)”
I’m guessing that the 8b/10b encoding overhead is once again not present in the 10 Gbps per channel Thunderbolt bandwidth figure, just as for PCIe packets. Otherwise Thunderbolt would not be able to fully support the DisplayPort 1.1a spec which calls for 10.8 Gbps when including the 8b/10b padding.
“Apple claims that one of the channels is used for DisplayPort while the other is used for PCIe.”
This still flummoxes me. Does that mean that if you daisy chained 2 4-drive SF-2281 Pegasus R6’s to the Thunderbolt port on the MacBook Pro that you would achieve no better than 8021Mbps combined? That neither device could use the bandwidth of the second Thunderbolt channel even with no DisplayPort device present? Also, although Thunderbolt ports only support DisplayPort 1.1a resolutions, might they still support DP 1.2 features such as MST and daisy chainable displays? Or is the only way to connect multiple displays to one Thunderbolt port by using a DP 1.1a multi-display hub and thereby limiting the resolution of at least one of them to less than 2560x1440?
LedHed - Sunday, July 10, 2011 - link
By the time we have a decent amount of devices starting to use the Thunderbolt interface this will be outdated with the 2nd revision. Once again Apple is raising the price for no gain in anyway.LedHed - Sunday, July 10, 2011 - link
Also calling that huge array box mobile is hilarious in itself.xrror - Sunday, July 10, 2011 - link
So Apple will fix all the nagging issues with Thunderbolt connectivity when... they transition to ARM. Begone evil PC people, I'm sure Apple hates it thoroughly that iMacs and MBP can be "perverted" to x86's domain of Windows.So when MacOS basically is superseded by iOS for their "non-handheld mobile devices" and they finally eliminate iMac and MBP since "people who didn't transition to our new taint-ARM/Apple specific processor" line of devices are obviously just lame, as proven by the poor saps holding on to their PowerPC macs. Yea it's coming full circle.
Ugh... I really hope I'm just being paranoid/joking. But...