ION for Netbooks — is it enough?
NVIDIA's ION platform for netbooks has a lot of interesting concepts. With the use of GPUs for more tasks — especially video decoding and editing — is it possible to pair a faster integrated GPU with an Atom processor and create a compelling system? Comparing the HP Mini 311 with other Atom-based netbooks, we would be inclined to answer in the affirmative. However, Atom netbooks aren't the only game in town.
We've dropped several references to Acer's Timeline series, and plenty of other vendors are launching similar CULV products. The Core 2 Duo SU9000 series is too expensive to compete in the same market, but the dual-core Celeron SU2000 and Pentium SU4000 chips aren't quite so expensive — in fact, the Celeron SU2300 is about half the cost of the Core 2 Duo SU9400. The loss of 2MB cache (3MB down to 1MB) and 200MHz will certainly reduced performance, but compared to Atom it should still be quite a bit faster. The question really comes down to how much you want to spend.
We really aren't too fond of the HP Mini 311 keyboard, touchpad, or LCD, and while the ION LE chipset certainly helps with video decoding, the same can be said for GMA 4500MHD. Modern games really aren't a viable option on either ION LE + N270 or CULV + 4500MHD, and older titles should work on both solutions. We wouldn't call either option perfect, but which is better?
We've begun testing of an Acer Timeline 1810, which is the same size as the Mini 311. The price of a Timeline 1810 starts at around $550, which is a full $150 more than the base Mini 311. However, that gets you Windows 7 Home Premium, 3GB RAM, a 320GB HDD, a Pentium SU4100 CPU, and around six to eight hours of battery life. Configure a Mini 311 with similar specs in the RAM, OS, and HDD areas and you're looking at $565 (without the external Blu-ray drive).
Similarly, we have the Acer Timeline's larger step-brother in the house, the Gateway EC5409u, priced at around $650. It includes 4GB RAM, a 15.6" LCD, and a DVDR. If you prefer a $400 price cap, consider the Gateway EC1435u we mentioned earlier. It has 2GB RAM, 160GB HDD, Win7, and a dual-core Celeron SU2300 (dual-core 1.2GHz, 1MB shared cache). Yes, even a Celeron SU2300 is still going to be a lot faster than Atom in terms of CPU performance.
We like the idea of NVIDIA's ION platform a lot more than we like the Intel Atom 945GSE platform, but we like CULV laptops even more. If we had to choose between the HP Mini 311 for $400 and the Acer Timeline 1810 at $550, it would be a tough decision even if the 311 had 3GB RAM and a 320GB HDD. Once we factor in the keyboard (we prefer the AS1810T), general performance, and battery life, the HP Mini 311 simply costs too much for what it offers. We'd also take the Gateway EC1425u as a great $400 alternative.
Looking towards the future, Intel's Pine Trail/Pineview should improve performance and battery life on Atom. What we don't know is how good the new IGP solution inside Pineview is going to be. Our understanding is that in 3D performance it will be similar to GMA 950 hardware, but it should also add the necessary features for DXVA and HD video decoding. We also know that ION won't be an option with Pineview, but vendors could still use other discrete NVIDIA GPUs (i.e. the G100M/G200M series). Unless Pineview really perks up in the CPU performance arena, though, solutions using CULV processors would continue to lead in many areas.
One of the best solutions we've seen of late is the ASUS UL80Vt, with GMA 4500MHD and the ability to enable/disable a GeForce G210M on the fly. Our full review is still coming, but consider this a recommendation if you have the $800 to spend. If all you have is $400 to $600, for the long battery life enthusiasts we recommend the Acer Timeline series (or similar products like the Gateway EC models). Those more interested in graphics performance at the expense of battery life can continue to turn to AMD CPU+IGP solutions like the Gateway NV52 with ATI HD 3200 — we've seen that particular notebook on sale for as little as $400 of late, which is a great deal considering we thought it was a decent notebook when it was selling for $500.
With so many other viable options, ultimately the HP Mini 311 is an interesting product that doesn't do enough to get our full attention. Last year the ASUS N10JC offered similar specs in many ways (albeit with a smaller LCD), and it garnered our Gold Editors' Choice award. A lot has changed in one year. Intel's Atom has always been about keeping costs low and reducing power requirements; spending $400 on any Atom netbook is tough to recommend, and the HP Mini 311 will usually cost closer to $500 once you add a few extras. The most likely buyer for the 311 is users that want a netbook with an external Blu-ray drive and software, in which case $630 for the Mini 311 is a fair deal. Ultimately it's not a bad netbook, but neither is it Editors' Choice material.
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ninjackn - Monday, November 23, 2009 - link
I think a more fair comparison would be to mention all 3 tiers: netbooks, netbooks with video acceleration and CULV laptop. Netbooks have tempted me for a long while but the lack of ability to watch practically any video have long been a turn off from them.The ION netbooks are something like $100 more over a netbook without video acceleration. That $100 gets me the ability to watch youtube, hulu, 1080p H264 content and play games like plants vs zombies, WoW or Quake Live. Then for another $100 more I can get a laptop that can possibly do the same but have better battery life, build quality and start office faster? The $100 more is seeming less appearing, especially since it is a non-primary system.
It seems like an interesting trade off, a weaker GPU and more powerful CPU (CULV + 4500MHD) or a strong GPU and weaker CPU (Atom + ION). The ION is defiantly a stronger GPU than the 4500MHD but I’m interested as to how the balance of CPU/GPU will play out in benchmarks for reasonable games.
Also, if you buy a mini 311 with Windows 7 then it comes equipped with the full ION. Granted that ION LE really IS a full ION with the DX10 disabled through drivers but it can be enabled either through a BIOS hack or forcing full ION drivers. The Windows Experience Index score for gaming jumps from 3.9 to 5.4 I'm curious how that plays out (311+full ion vs timeline for "light" gaming).
As for video playback I have no idea if the 4500MHD is any good for H264 decoding. All I’ve heard about it is from forums or comments and I would really appreciate if there was a more definitive source (anandtech) discussing the matter. I glossed over the flash 10.1 article and it would seem that either are fine for youtube or hulu but what about videos we acquired through other means?
And talking as a "typical" anandtech-reader/power-user type of guy: The ion is more interesting over the 4500MHD because no apple laptop comes with a 4500MHD but they do come with a 9400M.
JarredWalton - Monday, November 23, 2009 - link
4500MHD provides enough GPU acceleration of x264/H.264/Flash decoding that when combined with a CULV CPU you can easily watch 1080p videos.The real comparison is Acer 1410/Gateway EC1435u (essentially the same thing) vs. the HP Mini 311. All are ~$400 base price, with a slight advantage in specs (i.e. RAM) to the Acer/Gateway CULV laptops.
I can't say for sure how the Celeron SU2300 stacks up to the Pentium SU4100, but half the cache and 100MHz should mean it's about 80-85% of the performance. That should still be enough for video decoding (I'll verify with Flash 10.1 on SU4100 in the next couple days).
For graphics, GMA 4500MHD is about 1/4 the gaming performance of 9400M, but Atom really holds 9400M (ION) back it seems. If the 9400M can only run at ~1/3 it's regular gaming performance because of CPU bottlenecking, we have a real fight. If it's more like 1/2 speed, it's not as close.
I'll be looking at all of this in the next week or so....
AstarothCY - Sunday, November 22, 2009 - link
The HP Mini 311 is multitouch-capable. Yes, the Windows 7 models ship with a driver that inexplicably does not recognize multitouch gestures, but if you install the following driver, they will work:http://h10025.www1.hp.com/ewfrf/wc/softwareDownloa...">http://h10025.www1.hp.com/ewfrf/wc/soft...%A9=en&a...
You may experience an issue with the function of the left touchpad button being unset from "Click", causing some issues after you wake up from hibernate, just make sure it is set properly. HP should really release a proper Mini 311 ALPS driver for Windows 7.
BelardA - Sunday, November 22, 2009 - link
Yeah, it sucks that some idiots decided that WE would want glossy LCD screens for our portable computers. *I HATE THEM*.But there are notebooks with WindowsXP & Windows7 with excellent matte screens.
They are called THINKPADS. Some of the cool-looking, lower end SL series has non-glossy screens. And the other series: R / T / X / W come with matte screens by default (Some are/were optional gloss).
So starting at about $550 (SL) or a typical SL / R with core2duo at $600~700 are matte screens.
I love my ThinkPad, and the screen was the #1 reason I bought it for $650. Many of my friends buy them now because of the screens and of course the quality. Something that HP can't touch.
BTW: I also like netbooks... for $250~300, willing to deal with the glossy. But it looks like a ThinkPad Netbook may come out and it has glossy :( (rumored)
cgramer - Monday, November 23, 2009 - link
FWIW, the Asus Eee PC 1000HE has a matte screen, though its case is as glossy as any of them (i.e., a fingerprint magnet).AstroGuardian - Monday, November 23, 2009 - link
ThinkPads are marvelous piece of technology. Definitely untouchable by competition. But costly also!fokka - Sunday, November 22, 2009 - link
dell (and afaik hp) buisnes-lineups also offer matte sceens, though at least in the dell vostros, they arent that great considering viewing angles, contrast, colour.Etern205 - Sunday, November 22, 2009 - link
The HP mini 311 uses DDR3 not DDR2 as you guys have stated in the specifications table.JarredWalton - Sunday, November 22, 2009 - link
Sorry... typical cut/paste typo. :)irev210 - Sunday, November 22, 2009 - link
Lots of talk between comparing the Acer 1810 to the ion platform.You can get the 399 dual core celeron CULV for 399 in the acer timeline 1410.
The HP ion platform vs the Acer celly CULV platform is a no brainer comparison, as they are both 399.
Acer celly CULV is by far the best value in the netbook space atm.