HTPC - TV Tuner Reviews
by Jarred Walton on December 7, 2005 12:05 AM EST- Posted in
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PowerColor 550 Pro (cont'd)
If you're running Windows MCE, you can begin using the MCE interface immediately. (If you haven't configured MCE previously, you'll need to do that, but we'll skip that section.) For non-MCE users, CyberLink's PowerCinema4 is included, and at first, it seems like a decent piece of software.
Unfortunately, PowerCinema4 does not include support for any US EPG (Electronic Programming Guide) services. The problem apparently stems from US patents. PowerColor informed us: "The reason PowerCinema4 cannot support EPG in USA is because of patent issues; the royalty cost is extremely high now. ATI plans to support this product on their MMC software, but it is not ready yet." While MCE is the preferred method of using this card, we would really like to see a quick resolution to the lack of EPG support under XP. Considering that the EPG accessed via the remote doesn't work for any of the cards, though, it's not the end of the world.
Besides the channel selection, PowerCinema also allows you to configure timeshifting and recording options as usual. You can see the available screens below, which are accessed via an MCE-like interface. This software feels much more like a consumer electronics device, as the user interface works with either a mouse or the remote, and the UI looks the same whether you're in fullscreen mode or running in a window. Incidentally, I've heard some disparaging remarks about PowerCinema3, but the newest release doesn't seem to have many serious problems other than the lack of a US EPG.
Enabling timeshifting can be done in two ways. The first is to have it manually activate: you press the pause button, and you'll experience a delay of about two seconds while the software switches from a live video stream to the file stream. The second option is to have timeshifting always enabled, so there is no delay or temporary loss of signal when you pause the feed. The problem with having timeshifting always enabled is that changing channels becomes noticeably slower. Without timeshifting, it takes about .5 seconds to change channels; with timeshifting, it takes closer to 2 seconds. Frequent channel surfers will dislike the delay, but most people can learn to cope with it, and "instant replay" junkies will like the feature. Two seconds may seem rather slow, but that's actually about how long my Comcast box takes to change channels.
Our video quality was set to the highest encoding quality once again, as disk space isn't a major concern of ours. This resulted in a data rate of 8000 Kbps, so it's probably overkill as 4000 Kbps should be sufficient for 640x480 MPEG2 videos. Actually, the videos are recorded in a 720x480 format, but the aspect ratio encoded into the file apparently specifies a non-standard pixel size. While 720x480 is a 9:6 AR, the videos play as though they're 4:3 AR. It seems like that would use more space than is strictly necessary, but this is more of a PowerCinema topic than a Theater 550 topic.
After the time required to configure the digital (QAM) channels on the other two cards, it was a relief to only have to look at analog channels. Scanning the channels takes about a minute, and assuming that you're familiar with the channel lineup, you'll know exactly where your favorite channels are located. The EPG problem is unfortunate, as everything else works very well. Windows MCE is certainly the best solution, like PowerColor suggests, and unlike the Fusion5 card, you don't lose anything by switching to MCE. (The Fusion card only allows QAM reception in the FusionHDTV software, but the Theatre 550 doesn't have that feature in the first place.) Videos will be recorded in the tweaked .MS file format (it's MPEG2 with some Meta information about channel and program names), but otherwise, you get everything with MCE that you would get with PowerCinema, plus a working EPG.
Using the PowerColor card is a pleasing experience, though again, that's probably because there's no need to wrestle with subchannels. Perhaps the best news is that, just as we discovered in our last TV Tuner roundup, the analog quality of the Theater 550 chip is among the best available. Comparing the analog output of the PowerColor card with that of the others shows a dramatic difference in picture quality. The MyHD videos are clearly the worst (especially on a slower system), followed by the Fusion card. We'd go so far as to say that the Theater 550 actually has a better image than the output of the Comcast set-top box. Some might say the videos appear a bit "soft," but that's really a problem with analog content in general. 525 interlaced scan lines with up to 440 horizontal dots is still less than 640x480 content. It's also worth mentioning that many of the upsampled "HD" broadcasts have a worse picture than using the Theater 550 to watch the analog channel.
If/when HDTV content becomes more widespread, the Theater 550 will lose much of its value. Given the current time frame for the required conversion of all new TVs to DTV - not to mention the installed user base of existing TVs - we're likely stuck with analog TV for a long time, so getting a high quality analog tuner for your PC isn't a bad idea. The PCIe interface also makes it more future proof, as PCI slots are likely to be phased out over the coming years. (Yeah, I know - purchasing a piece of computer hardware and talking about it lasting for years is hardly the norm for enthusiasts.)
If you're running Windows MCE, you can begin using the MCE interface immediately. (If you haven't configured MCE previously, you'll need to do that, but we'll skip that section.) For non-MCE users, CyberLink's PowerCinema4 is included, and at first, it seems like a decent piece of software.
Unfortunately, PowerCinema4 does not include support for any US EPG (Electronic Programming Guide) services. The problem apparently stems from US patents. PowerColor informed us: "The reason PowerCinema4 cannot support EPG in USA is because of patent issues; the royalty cost is extremely high now. ATI plans to support this product on their MMC software, but it is not ready yet." While MCE is the preferred method of using this card, we would really like to see a quick resolution to the lack of EPG support under XP. Considering that the EPG accessed via the remote doesn't work for any of the cards, though, it's not the end of the world.
Besides the channel selection, PowerCinema also allows you to configure timeshifting and recording options as usual. You can see the available screens below, which are accessed via an MCE-like interface. This software feels much more like a consumer electronics device, as the user interface works with either a mouse or the remote, and the UI looks the same whether you're in fullscreen mode or running in a window. Incidentally, I've heard some disparaging remarks about PowerCinema3, but the newest release doesn't seem to have many serious problems other than the lack of a US EPG.
Enabling timeshifting can be done in two ways. The first is to have it manually activate: you press the pause button, and you'll experience a delay of about two seconds while the software switches from a live video stream to the file stream. The second option is to have timeshifting always enabled, so there is no delay or temporary loss of signal when you pause the feed. The problem with having timeshifting always enabled is that changing channels becomes noticeably slower. Without timeshifting, it takes about .5 seconds to change channels; with timeshifting, it takes closer to 2 seconds. Frequent channel surfers will dislike the delay, but most people can learn to cope with it, and "instant replay" junkies will like the feature. Two seconds may seem rather slow, but that's actually about how long my Comcast box takes to change channels.
Our video quality was set to the highest encoding quality once again, as disk space isn't a major concern of ours. This resulted in a data rate of 8000 Kbps, so it's probably overkill as 4000 Kbps should be sufficient for 640x480 MPEG2 videos. Actually, the videos are recorded in a 720x480 format, but the aspect ratio encoded into the file apparently specifies a non-standard pixel size. While 720x480 is a 9:6 AR, the videos play as though they're 4:3 AR. It seems like that would use more space than is strictly necessary, but this is more of a PowerCinema topic than a Theater 550 topic.
After the time required to configure the digital (QAM) channels on the other two cards, it was a relief to only have to look at analog channels. Scanning the channels takes about a minute, and assuming that you're familiar with the channel lineup, you'll know exactly where your favorite channels are located. The EPG problem is unfortunate, as everything else works very well. Windows MCE is certainly the best solution, like PowerColor suggests, and unlike the Fusion5 card, you don't lose anything by switching to MCE. (The Fusion card only allows QAM reception in the FusionHDTV software, but the Theatre 550 doesn't have that feature in the first place.) Videos will be recorded in the tweaked .MS file format (it's MPEG2 with some Meta information about channel and program names), but otherwise, you get everything with MCE that you would get with PowerCinema, plus a working EPG.
Using the PowerColor card is a pleasing experience, though again, that's probably because there's no need to wrestle with subchannels. Perhaps the best news is that, just as we discovered in our last TV Tuner roundup, the analog quality of the Theater 550 chip is among the best available. Comparing the analog output of the PowerColor card with that of the others shows a dramatic difference in picture quality. The MyHD videos are clearly the worst (especially on a slower system), followed by the Fusion card. We'd go so far as to say that the Theater 550 actually has a better image than the output of the Comcast set-top box. Some might say the videos appear a bit "soft," but that's really a problem with analog content in general. 525 interlaced scan lines with up to 440 horizontal dots is still less than 640x480 content. It's also worth mentioning that many of the upsampled "HD" broadcasts have a worse picture than using the Theater 550 to watch the analog channel.
If/when HDTV content becomes more widespread, the Theater 550 will lose much of its value. Given the current time frame for the required conversion of all new TVs to DTV - not to mention the installed user base of existing TVs - we're likely stuck with analog TV for a long time, so getting a high quality analog tuner for your PC isn't a bad idea. The PCIe interface also makes it more future proof, as PCI slots are likely to be phased out over the coming years. (Yeah, I know - purchasing a piece of computer hardware and talking about it lasting for years is hardly the norm for enthusiasts.)
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8steve8 - Wednesday, December 7, 2005 - link
bottom line:if i want to watch/record hdtv channels like HBO and/or discover via a PC...
im out of luck?
those channels are not ota... are provided through a cable provider....
i can do this once cable card finally comes around?
JarredWalton - Wednesday, December 7, 2005 - link
HBO and most other movie channels are encrypted. Funny enough, some of the on demand channels seem to be picked up. For instance channels 101-1, 101-2, 102-1, 102-2, and several subchannels on the physical channels 93 and 94 all showed what amounts to random content. Movies, cartoons, and yes, even porn. If you tuned in to one of the channels, sometimes you would see it going to fast-forward mode, like the person watching the content was skipping ahead.Cable card is supposed to allow you to view encrypted content on TVs as well as computers without a set-top box. Until I see it in actual use, though, I'm not exactly sure how it's going to work. I would assume it will just store an encrypted TP file, and the cable card will contain the decryption logic.
nullpointerus - Wednesday, December 7, 2005 - link
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cablecard">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CablecardI've been waiting for decent HTPC CableCard products for ~2 years now. They'll probably come out very late in 2006, achieve their intended interoperability sometime between the second and third generation of products, and become practically flawless around the same time that they become obsolete. That's just a guess, mind you...
Tujan - Wednesday, December 7, 2005 - link
It was intriging because nobody has really compared the use of DIY HTPCs. With what limited parts are available.I wouldn't use a non-multicore processor for something dealing with HDPCs. Just the shear amount of graphics and screen space,the relative newcomer to its display of screen space,. The notorious 'switching between apps,and those running in the background,- much less using the PCI bus to do so.
What I did miss out of this story,was a shot of a connected MYHD130 to its screen display. Kind of lost me there. With the connect ups to utilizing a screen,and the computers video card. See Im reading imagining toggling between user interface,remote,and what this means to the rigging of separate devices outside the computer itself.Caveat Emptor for/from them along side. And you mentioned that ATI was 'out-of-the-picture , for HDTV unless the components where hooked up. So to share that ATI graphics cards are not useful for the MYHD130.
Would certainly make a wish list to the MYHD130 to put it onto the PCI-e lane.Get it off the PCI bus.
As for those encrypted channels.Are you sure they would stay that way ? Think you could pick out your PPV (Pay-Per-view) channel from that list ? [ ]
You mentioned your Monitor,that they have in common Overscan.I simply have the question included to involve just how a HTPC will correctly recognize a monitor (consider a 32 to 40" LCD TV) ,when most this involves the PNP feature Ive known for doing so.? [ ]
ATI cards aren't any good with the DTV if using the DVI for/from them for the HD screens ? Think 32" to 42" LCD TVs here.[ ]
- glad your doing the experimenting here.Good article.
JarredWalton - Wednesday, December 7, 2005 - link
LCD TVs shouldn't have a problem with overscan. Any rear projection displays will have overscan, and I believe all DLP have overscan as well. There are some good DLP displays that only have 1% overscan, though -- too bad they're really expensive.If you want a picture of what the MyHD looks like when connected, let me see about uploading one and I'll provide a link. This is with the DVI daughter card:
http://images.anandtech.com/reviews/multimedia/tvt...">DVI Passthru Image
http://images.anandtech.com/reviews/multimedia/tvt...">VGA Passthru Image
Hopefully that's clear - there's a lot of cable clutter, so I labeled the pertinent connections.
Tujan - Wednesday, December 7, 2005 - link
Thanks for reply. Even though I know a lot,Im still a novice. Know a lot of the acronymns,but dealing with things marketed off the top just keeps me on to them for a limited span.The picture there,the top card is the video card,with the lower cards being the TV tuners then.Im thinkin that somehow your giving up a controlled connection to your display from the computer by using the MyHD130 ? Or it limits the 'out of your video card when you only would have a single hook up on the Display.[ ]
- I will go to there site to look for more.
Encryption ? [ ] Mean if you subscribe to HBO via your home cable line,HBO will not be able to be seen if utilizing the HTPC with the QAM/HD TV cards ?
Certainly the situation would be averted for the configuration of the cable to Display(cable box to default display) - since (T,F) the Display has an encryption chip within it to do so,(1),or (2) Encryption is handled via the cable box. With everything else dealing with something of the HDCP,HDMI type scenarios.... The encryption mechanism has got to work somewhere in the final render at the Display. Certainly the Cable Company isn't selling me the Display.....
Of course this is a whole nother anchalotta.
I pretty much just look for the configuration compatibility in the input,output for the hookups.And if the software will work/..how difficult to navigate them.
Thinking everythings hunky dory after a large investment ...Again thanks for reply.
JarredWalton - Wednesday, December 7, 2005 - link
Decryption of the encrypted channels is handled by the cable box. The cable card standard will allow other devices to do that decryption -- basically, the key/algorithm will be stored on the cable card. Of course, that means you need to have a TV and or computer that has a cable card slot. Hopefully they'll make a USB adapter.mariush - Wednesday, December 7, 2005 - link
I'm a bit dissapointed that you have used Divx to test the analog recording. XViD would have probably been much faster, at least that's how it is on my computer.Also, I would probably either use XViD set to record with quantizer 1 (max quality) which takes about 6-10 MB/s at 768x576 25fps or I would use a lossless encoder such as HuffYUV (~12 MB/s at 768x576 25fps)
JarredWalton - Wednesday, December 7, 2005 - link
The DivX codec is officially supported by the MyHD software. Xvid was far slower, and that holds in general, unless there is a special setting to get it to encode faster. All the real-time encoding has to be done through a VFW codec, and I couldn't find a fast codec to handle that. The DivX codec is also the only codec that allows you to resize the video content, at least as far as I could tell. Otherwise you end up with an incorrect aspect ratio, as seen on the top left picture on page 15.If you download the videos, you might feel that the DivX codec results in a loss of quality, even on the X2 system. That video sample is actually very close to what you see when watching live analog content with the MyHD card. At best, it's decent analog video. Just about any analog-only TV tuner will produce equal or better output.
Back to the codecs, if you really want to get a decent compression, while not losing a lot of quality, I would recommend using a second PC or re-encoding the videos while your computer is sitting idle. You could do the same thing with the TP files, re-encoding them using the Xvid codec with a data rate of around 1 GB per hour and the target, resolution of 720 x 480 -- or perhaps go for 2/3 GB per hour and target a 1280x1024 resolution.
One of the benefits of the DivX codec is that quite a few consumer-electronics devices now support it as well. I'm not aware of any DVD players that can handle Xvid.
xtknight - Wednesday, December 7, 2005 - link
Sorry for the double post, but by the way, the program AVI.NET can encode xvid and divx for standalone players. That's the whole purpose of it: to use only the features standalone players support. I recommend you try it out.