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The Palm Pre vs. Apple's iPhone 3G: Preliminary Results and 3GS Discussion
The Palm Pre vs. Apple's iPhone 3G: Preliminary Results and 3GS Discussion
Date: June 9th, 2009
Author: Anand Lal Shimpi
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I got up early, went down to very sketchy Sprint store and bought a Palm Pre on Saturday. I've been playing with it and testing it ever since and before I finish the full review I thought I'd share some data with you all.

First, battery life:

Phone Web Browsing (Cell Network) Web Browsing (WiFi) Talk Time
Apple iPhone 3G 218 minutes 400 minutes 289 minutes
Palm Pre 219 minutes 351 minutes 312 minutes
T-Mobile G1 398 minutes (on Edge) 435 minutes 218 minutes (on Edge)

 

T-Mobile doesn't have any 3G coverage in NC yet so all of my tests for the G1 were on Edge, thus we get a much longer web browsing battery life. The thing that surprised me the most however was the eerily similar battery life results between the iPhone 3G and the Palm Pre. The Pre didn't do so well in WiFi web browsing but in the other two tests it lasted around as long as the iPhone 3G.

Performance

The Palm Pre uses TI's OMAP 3430 processor, clocked somewhere around 600MHz. The OMAP 3430 uses an ARM Cortex A8 core. The iPhone 3G uses an ARM11 based processor running at somewhere around 400MHz (thank you guys for the correction). The ARM11 in the iPhone 3G is a much older design than the Cortex A8 in the Palm Pre. Both processors are in-order architectures, but while the ARM11 was a single-issue chip the Cortex A8 is dual-issue.

The ARM11 has an 8 stage integer pipeline compared to a 13 stage integer pipeline in the Cortex A8, so the A8 loses some of its advantage there but makes up for it with its superscalar nature. There should be no contest when it comes to performance between these two chips, the Pre's Cortex A8 has the clear advantage. It's why Palm is able to enable pre-emptive multitasking while the iPhone pretty much can't.

The recently announced iPhone 3GS does address the performance issue, presumably by introducing a Cortex A8 based processor to the iPhone 3G. Apple is claiming significant improvements in battery life for everything but 3G talk time with the new iPhone. What this tells me is that Apple did a great job squeezing the most performance per watt out of its ARM11 based processor in the iPhone 3G. The new iPhone 3GS should have performance levels simliar to the Palm Pre, but if Apple's numbers are to be believed it means that battery life will go up significantly.

For Palm this means that there is a lot of room left on the table to improve battery life. In most of my interaction with the Pre I've gotten the impression that if Palm only had a few more months the Pre would be significantly more polished, I suspect that battery life falls under that observation as well.

Other Pre Notes

When I compare the T-Mobile G1 to the iPhone 3G it's no contest, Apple's smartphone takes the cake. The G1 feels more like the smartphones that existed before the iPhone rather than something competitive with it. With the Palm Pre however, it's difficult to make such an apples-to-apples comparison. In many ways the Pre falls short of the iPhone, but in others it's completely untouched by Apple's offering. I'm nowhere near my conclusion but I don't think I'll see a clear victor in this review.

The Palm Pre brings multitasking to the smartphone market better than any of its predecessors. It's almost as if Apple did it. I say almost because the implementation isn't as polished as I'd like. Despite the significant performance advantage of the Pre's CPU, the multitasking just isn't as smooth as I'd want it to be. I'm guessing battery life isn't the only thing Palm could stand to optimize on the Pre.

What the Pre lacks is what the original iPhone had going for it: mastery of key features. The Pre does many things but it does very few things well. The original iPhone on the other hand didn't do a lot, but what it did do, it did better than any other phone on the market. Palm comes very close to achieving that, but I think it needs another 6 months with the Pre to produce the level of polish I feel is necessary to pose a true threat to Apple.

What is truly striking about the Pre is how far Palm was able to take it. Going from Palm's position to truly out-innovating Apple is a serious accomplishment. There are things about the Pre that even Apple's iPhone 3GS can't touch.

More in the review to come...


45 Comments
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iPhone CPU by Zok, 245 days ago
"he iPhone 3G uses an ARM11 based processor running at somewhere around 600MHz as well."

It actually runs at 412 MHz. Just a heads up.

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RE: iPhone CPU by Zok, 245 days ago
As a follow up, 412 MHz is the speed for the iPhone/iPhone 3G, as well as the first-gen iTouch. The second-gen iTouch processor runs at 532 MHz, which is why some games have an "better graphics" switch for said device.

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RE: iPhone CPU by KeypoX, 245 days ago
thats what wikipedia says

Samsung ARM 1176JZ(F)-S v1.0 620 MHz underclocked to 412 MHz, 32-bit RISC[7]


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Good for you Anand! Welcome to the smartphone war. by anandtech02148, 245 days ago
the smartphone war is exciting,
i want to read Anand's insight into this, you could also do Nokia n97, Iphone 3Gs,& Palm Pre. Web Os is very impressive base on a lot of you tube videos. Symbian Os reminds me of OpenVms but with Gui, love that Os very much, i'm hoping symbian becomes the wild Os like in the days of Windows. And Apple is just Apple, they delivere supports like HDSPA 7.2mb that will make most smartphone obsolete in about 6months.
the phone war reminds me of the old pc wars eventually its all about content and a kickass web browser. Apple is ahead with the browser performance. I want Anand to have a dedicated section to smartphone hardwares and Os.


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RE: Good for you Anand! Welcome to the smartphone war. by cocoviper, 245 days ago
@anandtech02148

Actually the Pre's browswer is faster and tends to render as good or better than the iPhone's.

http://www.engadget.com/2009/06/03/palm...rt-2-synergy-phone-media-applications/
-->scroll about 1/2 way down. There's commentary and a video speed test.

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RE: Good for you Anand! Welcome to the smartphone war. by aftlizard, 245 days ago
I believe Sprint's 3g is at 7.2 mbs as well and actually IIRC tested faster than any other carrier.

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RE: Good for you Anand! Welcome to the smartphone war. by cocoviper, 245 days ago
Nope EVDO RevA is 3.1Mbps vs. Att's currently rolled out 3.6Mbps 3G (what the iPhone 3G uses). Their network is slowly being upgraded to 7.2 but there are other items besides the theoretical speed to be considered.

1-Spectrum. Sprint uses 1.9GHz whereas Att uses 800MHz typically (and they are moving more of their 3G coverage to 800 because it propagates further). Lower frequencies are better at penetrating walls but they also carry less data per second. For any given channel, an equivalent signal on 1.9GHz will always be faster than an 800MHz signal- it can simply carry more data.

2-EVDO (CDMA) seems to consistantly get closer to its theoretical data speeds better than HSPA (GSM). This is one of the key reasons that Sprint (as well as Verizon) are known for the speed and quality of their data network vs. Att and T-Mobile are typically considered subpar to horrible when it comes to data speeds (see all the class action lawsuits filed over the iPhone 3G being twice as fast, Gizmodo's 3G test http://gizmodo.com/5111989/the-definitive-coast+to+coast-3g-data-test , etc...)

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RE: Good for you Anand! Welcome to the smartphone war. by aftlizard, 245 days ago
You're right. However I was correct in remembering that Sprint's network tested out faster, at least according to gizmodo.
http://gizmodo.com/5111989/the-definitive-coast+to+coast-3g-data-test

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RE: Good for you Anand! Welcome to the smartphone war. by taywyn, 243 days ago
I think your spectrum explanation is invalid or imprecise. Data speed is relative to the width of the signal envelope; center frequency has little to do with that except that you typically get assigned narrower bandwidth as the center frequency decreases. For any channel of a fixed width (a simplified case of 1 MHz at 800 MHz vs 1 MHz at 1.9 GHz), you have equivalent data transfer rates with the same encoding and modulation schemes. This is mathematically provable.

Better propagation is a trade-off with user density; more users on a single cell (high propagation) means more bandwidth contention for all users, whereas with worse propagation, where you have coverage, you probably have decent speed. It just costs your network more (cell sites and therefore money) to get you that coverage.

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Pre by winterspan, 245 days ago
(BTW, the guys above me are correct -- the Samsung ARM11 in the iPhone is underclocked to 412mhz)

I think Anand is right in that Palm needs to spend another six months optimizing and polishing the Pre's software and OS. The 600Mhz ARM Cortex-A8 and PowerVR SGX530 GPU are cream of the crop -- The Cortex-A8 core has about twice the raw performance per clock as ARM11.

Unfortunately, and this is to Apple's credit, the current 400Mhz ARM11 based iPhone is as fast or nearly as fast as the Pre. Despite the fact that the Pre can finish loading a large complex webpage a bit faster than the current iPhone, the iPhone is faster and smoother when it comes to panning and zooming loaded web pages.

I guess we'll have to wait another week for the tear-down to see what is powering the new iPhone 3GS and see just how much faster it is than the Pre in real-world use.

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RE: Pre by lifeblood, 245 days ago
And they will get the 6 months to improve it. By releasing the Pre exclusively on an almost dead network (Sprint), they are in effect "beta testing it under fire". Sprint users get to find the bugs thus allowing Palm to iron them out while tweaking it's performance before releasing it into a truly competitive network (Verizon).

Palm must have taken a page from Microsoft.

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RE: Pre by HelToupee, 245 days ago
"By releasing the Pre exclusively on an almost dead network (Sprint), they are in effect "beta testing it under fire"."

Really? Sprint's almost dead? They've got 15 million subscribers. That's up against Verizon's what, 19 or 20 million? They've got arguably better 3G coverage (especially in the Midwest) than Verizon.

Are you trolling, or are you really that misinformed?

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RE: Pre by theslug, 245 days ago
Judging by the last sentence of his post, it's clearly trolling.


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RE: Pre by cocoviper, 245 days ago
Sprint has ~50 million subscribers, Verizon has about 87 million. Both are big, neither are "dead".

As with the computer hardware industry- don't believe the FUD that competitors try to feed you.

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RE: Pre by Griswold, 244 days ago
"Despite the fact that the Pre can finish loading a large complex webpage a bit faster than the current iPhone, the iPhone is faster and smoother when it comes to panning and zooming loaded web pages. "

No, its not. Check out the engadget video somebody linked above. My iphone 3G scrolls and pans pretty jerky, just like in the video, whereas the pre is buttesmooth.

Why do you people keep saying these things - you're the second to make a false claim as far as browsing goes...

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No blackberry? by Lifted, 245 days ago
Why not include one of the new blackberry models? I'd like to know how their battery life holds up in the tested situations.

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RE: No blackberry? by The0ne, 245 days ago
I use a HTC smartphone myself and while I would love to see more I think most users, at least most articles I've read separate Blackberries into a different category...business phone. The iPhone and Pre are...what's the word I keep seeing, hmm...oh well, casual phones.

It's funny how people will find anything to separate products apart.

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how do i overclock it? by poohbear, 245 days ago
forget the stock speeds, how the hell do we overclock this thing???

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Yea, Right by DanBook, 245 days ago
I can't believe that some people are positioning the Pre as competition for the iPhone. I've got two words for you: soft keyboard. GET IT THROUGH YOUR SKULL. Once you've done that, I have two more for you: app store. I just bought an iPhone 3GS from Apple because there's just nothing that currently compares to their latest offering. After all, why should I care about a replaceable battery and other feats of hardware engineering when the device is still a pain in the ass to use?

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RE: Yea, Right by The0ne, 245 days ago
Your statement left me a bit confused. Comparing the iPhone and pre is a valid point. They may differ in some features but they are in the same class.

And while Apple's app store does have some amazing software it is software we're talking about. Do you somehow expected Palm to have the same number of apps available at launch? This reminds me about the XP vs Vista arguments all over. Some users who don't like Vista don't want to change because learning how to use the new UI and features is too much of a pain or isn't worth the time.

Here's the thing though, if there are enough people that want to devote to coding for the Pre then you'll see that apps just as quickly if not even quicker because of the current FAD.

And my last question, do you even own or have "played" with the Pre to make those kinds of statements? It seems you're comparing apples to oranges highlighting a phone that has been out for a few years to one that was just released. Give it at least 6 months before you can say the features suck, the apps suck or whatever.

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RE: Yea, Right by lwatcdr, 245 days ago
Do you work for apple or what?
I am just sick of Apple and every other flavor of fanboys on the planet.
Guess what the iPhone is a very good smartphone and does have a large app store.
Of course at launch it was closed and they told you to make web apps for the thing. Apple improved that.
So what are the iPhones flaws?
1. Can not multitask.
2. You can not get and extra battery.
3. No memory card slot.
4. No hardware keyboard.
The new iPhone and the new software does take care of a lot of issues that the 3g had. The lack of voice dialing I feel was a huge issue.
The Pre isn't perfect.
1. No video recording yet.
2. Small app store.
3. No memory card slot
Of course Sprint will save you several hundred dollars per phone over AT&T on your plan which is a good thing. I also have good coverage and have not had many problems with them but YMMV.
Yes the Pre competes well with the iPhone. Is it a knock out? Not really but for some people it is a better solution than an iPhone.
Also some disadvantages are also advantages. The lack of apps is a huge advantage for developers. You have less competition so it will be easier to get noticed. The iPhone on the other hand give you the advantage of a HUGE installed base so if you get noticed you can make some big bucks.
Two good phones and two excellent choices. I for one hope to see more Android devices as well.
Having several good smart phones to choose from make everything better.



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RE: Yea, Right by snarfies, 245 days ago
I have three words for you: do not want. GET IT THROUGH YOUR SKULL. I refuse to own a phone that does not have physical buttons. Ever go to an touchscreen ATM and had to repeatedly punch the screen to get it to respond to anything at all? Yeah, well, when I stop encountering those MAYBE I'll buy a phone without buttons - maybe.

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RE: Yea, Right by theslug, 245 days ago
That's only on older glass CRT touchscreens. Newer LCD touchscreens, including ATMs, don't have that issue.


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RE: Yea, Right by sprockkets, 245 days ago
The older crts had actual buttons. Those Bank of America ones are the worst; they make XP noises which are extremely annoying.

The key to it working is just to touch it normally; most people try to stick their whole finger on it hard and long which doesn't work as well.

Actually, I believe those very expensive screens always had capacitive touch screens; none of them ever felt like a resistive touch screen.

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RE: Yea, Right by Griswold, 244 days ago
Hello fat-fingers! Anway, comparing these ATMs to the iphone (or any other touch mobile) is ridiculous. They just work, as long as they're not based on windows mobile and its craptastic UI on top of the non-touch OS.

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How do you figure talk time by rudy, 245 days ago
The problem is that talk time is related to signal strength. Why is it that the G1 can beat the other 2 easy then lose miserably in talk time. It could be that the signal was weak and the phone was using more power to over come this.

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Sprint by snarfies, 245 days ago
I was with Sprint for a few years - until they began to RELENTLESSLY make telemarketing calls to my own phone, like several times each week. My contract was almost up at that point, and I told them if they called me one more time I would leave as soon as the contract was over. They ignored my request, sending me a very clear message - they did not want my money anymore. So I stopped giving it to them. If I can get an unlocked GSM Pre, I might be interested, but if its Sprint only, they can keep it.

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RE: Sprint by lwatcdr, 245 days ago
How long ago was that?
My wife has been with them 10 years and never has had that issue. I have been with them for several myself and never had that happen. Things do change.


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RE: Sprint by snarfies, 245 days ago
Unfortunately, this was like 18 months ago.

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RE: Sprint by rudy, 245 days ago
I think if you have an employee discount they spam you I recieve the calls too.

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Good quick comments by halcyon, 245 days ago
Will we be seeing more phone reviews @ AT?

WinMo 6.1 w/ TouchFlow (HTC Touch Pro 2 is looking really good)

Android phones?

Why not even the Symbian kludges :)

It'd so nice to see *real* comparisons here at Anand.

So tired of reading 'reviews' and 'comments' at most Mobile phone blogs, where the reviewers can't do anything critical and don't know how to objectively test.

And don't even get me started on news sites like Enga... barf :)


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RE: Good quick comments by DLeRium, 245 days ago
The problem is in the US people only know a few phones. iPhone and RaZr. Ok, it's not that bad, but great phones like the HTC Diamond/Touch were never known till they hit carriers. There are some awesome phones out there like the SE phones and Nokia N-series that most of America is too retarded to know about.

These reviews shouldn't be highly regarded. As for engadget, they at least recognize Symbian's strengths and weaknesses. How many people here have even touched S60?

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RE: Good quick comments by kg4icg, 245 days ago
That would be true except there are problems with your post. You do know that most of the n-series Nokia's don't come to the states, and 2 There are lag times when HTC's phones are releases in Europe then the States. I wish people do some research before they state something without knowing.

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RE: Good quick comments by sprockkets, 245 days ago
Check out Newegg.com for their phones. You can't buy them from a carrier/subsidized. They are only sold unlocked, which is how it should be - no OEM tainting crap on the phone or castration of features.

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RE: Good quick comments by nilepez, 243 days ago
Great, so now you pay full price for the phone and you pay your carrier for subsidizing the phone that they didn't subsidize.

I work for a small carrier...we love the prepaid plans where the customer has no contract, but typically pays a recurring monthly charge that's about the same as a typical plan.

Why? Because they pay full price for their phone, which means we start making a profit from day one. When we subsidize a phone, we don't make money for at least a year.

Now if you have Sprint's Sero plan and paying full price for a phone is the only way to keep it, it's probably worth it...but if you're paying the same fee as everyone else, you're just getting screwed.

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RE: Good quick comments by The0ne, 245 days ago
I rather Anandtech stay away from phones altogether and stick to computers :) Heck even the camera reviews don't interest me and I like photography :D But since Anand's birth many years ago I come here mainly for computer reviews and I'm sticking to it :)

hahaha funny comment I know but meh :P

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The iPhone can and does pre-emptively multitask! by ZPedro, 245 days ago
"It's why Palm is able to enable pre-emptive multitasking while the iPhone pretty much can't." WTH?! How do you think iPhone OS switches between the kernel, the current app, the daemons, and the one or two apps that can run in the background? Cooperatively? The iPhone does pre-emptively multitask; however, it is not able to multitask more than one application (all of these beside the current app are specially designed to be extremely mindful of resources, especially to allow hardware resources to sleep whenever possible), but I don't think the processor is the main bottleneck, and at any rate it does pre-emptively multitask - just not between apps.

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RE: The iPhone can and does pre-emptively multitask! by sprockkets, 245 days ago
The bottleneck is Apple and Steve's level of service he demands from an iphone. Most everyone else doesn't care and expects a battery life decrease upon using apps in the background such as IM.

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Android by macs, 245 days ago
I suggest to use HTC G2 instead of G1. I have a G2 I'm very happy with it and Android in general (version 1.5 "cupcake" instead of 1.1). Android is the best mobile OS; has everything and is fast and stable. The only downside is that require a little bit of tweaking compared to Palm Pre and Iphone.
p.s. Sorry for my English but I'm Italian

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Picked up a Pre. Generally, I like it. My one gripe,I miss the 5 way rocker. by VooDooAddict, 245 days ago
Picked up a Pre. Generally I like it. My one gripe is I miss the 5 way rocker from earlier Palm Phones. Correcting text entry with only a touch screen to move around the cursor is difficult.

But the contact management is simply great. I used to have duplicate entries for many people in order to hold all the addresses, emails, and/or phone numbers. It automatically combines them into a single contact.

The contact Syncing with facebook is also very nice. I'm not a big facebook user day to day, but I have many friends that are. This automatic sync keeps the phone numbers, addresses, and incoming call photos up to date.

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Disable POP3 emails for fw 1.0.2!! by L1FE, 245 days ago
When you guys are testing the Pre, you will see a significant decrease in battery life if you setup a POP3 email account (like Hotmail). A number of users have noticed that after removing the Hotmail account, they saw dramatic battery life increases.

Before, my battery was draining at a rate of about 1% every 4 minutes with light use, which is pretty abysmal. After deleting Hotmail completely, I was seeing a drain of about 1% every 8-9 minutes. Still nothing to write home about.

You HAVE to remove the POP3 account entirely. Users were reporting that even when setting the sync interval to manual, their inboxes were being updated in real time. I'm guessing it was introduced in the 1.0.2 fw during release since most reviewers, while they scorned battery life, never had the 3 hour complete drains that a lot of new users have been getting.

For those who care, I had my interval set to 30 minutes for my Hotmail account with GPS/Wi-FI/Bluetooth disabled. Anyway, thought Anand+team should know about that...

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Uh-oh looks like Palm Web Os is wild one. by anandtech02148, 244 days ago
Anand should consider changing digital cameras into smartphone category, he has a lot of knowledge in hardwares and what a perfect to disect all these phone's OS. Pc has become such a commodity, the only excitement in today's economy is the smartphone war with a lot of different stuff to explore.

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About pipeline stage by nomagic, 244 days ago
I am a little confused. Maybe someone more knowledgeable can help me.

Anand mentioned that Cortex A8 has longer integer pipeline stage than ARM11 does, therefore putting itself in disadvantage. However, it doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Having longer pipeline stage also has its advantages. Length of pipeline usually do not make one design better than the other. Maybe Anand could elaborate a little more on this in the full article?

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Pre CPU clockspeed by fabarati, 242 days ago
The Cortex A8 in the Pre is acutally clocked at 500 MHz. At least that's how I read this

root@castle:/var/home/root# cat /proc/cpuinfo
Processor : ARMv7 Processor rev 3 (v7l)
BogoMIPS : 498.07
Features : swp half thumb fastmult vfp edsp
CPU implementer : 0x41
CPU architecture: 7
CPU variant : 0x1
CPU part : 0xc08
CPU revision : 3
Control reg : 0xc5387f
Aux control reg : 0x42
L1 instruction cache:
features : read-alloc
size : 16 KB
assoc : 4
line length : 64
sets : 64
L1 data cache:
features : write-through write-back read-alloc
size : 16 KB
assoc : 4
line length : 64
sets : 64
L2 unified cache:
features : write-through write-back read-alloc write-alloc
size : 256 KB
assoc : 8
line length : 64
sets : 512
Cache LoC : 2
Cache LoU : 1

Hardware : Sirloin OMAP3430 board
Revision : 34304332
Serial : 0000000000000000

taken from here

http://forums.precentral.net/web-os-dev...84378-ok-rom-comes-12.html#post1662530



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