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The Core 2 Quad Q8400: Intel's $183 Phenom II 940 Competitor
The Core 2 Quad Q8400: Intel's $183 Phenom II 940 Competitor
Date: May 7th, 2009
Topic: CPU & Chipset
Manufacturer: Intel
Author: Anand Lal Shimpi
Buy the AMD HDZ940XCGIBOX Phenom II 940 Black
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Phenom II Earns a Financially Troubled AMD Less per Chip than Core 2 Quad

The global economy isn’t exactly strong right now. People are still buying, just not nearly as much as before when it felt like money grew on trees. Financially, all companies have been hurt, but AMD has much bigger issues. The table below shows net income in millions of US dollars before taxes for AMD and Intel over the past four quarters:

Net Income Before Taxes Q1 2009 Q4 2008 Q3 2008 Q2 2008
AMD -$298 Million -$1,358 Million $22 Million -$682 Million
Intel $629 Million $369 Million $2,833 Million $2,313 Million

 

Yeah. Ouch. Granted Intel going from ~$2.8B of income in a quarter down to under $400M must’ve hurt, but AMD has lost over $2.3B in the past four quarters. The company isn’t profitable and unfortunately is stuck between a rock and a hard place when it comes to fixing that.

The financial issues extend beyond simple CPU sales but I must point out the obvious issue with AMD’s current strategy. We know that the Phenom II is competitive, but look at what it’s competing against:

Processor L1 Cache L2 Cache L3 Cache Total Cache (4-core) Transistor Count Die Size
AMD Phenom II 128K per core 512KB per core 6MB 8.5MB 758M 258mm2
Intel Core 2 Quad Q9x50 64KB per core 12MB N/A 12.25MB 820M 214mm2
Intel Core 2 Quad Q9x00 64KB per core 6MB N/A 6.25MB 456M 164mm2
Intel Core 2 Quad Q8xxx 64KB per core 4MB N/A 4.25MB 456M 164mm2

 

Every single Phenom II uses a single 258 mm2 45nm die, that’s nearly Nehalem-sized. The problem is that the Phenom II parts generally compete against Intel’s Core 2 Quad Q9x00 and Q8xxx series, both of which have a total die size of 164mm2. AMD’s Phenom II die is 57% larger.

AMD and Intel both manufacture on 300mm wafers, but Intel can get nearly 60% more CPUs for each wafer than AMD can thanks to its die size advantage. That translates into more revenue per wafer and a significant profit advantage for Intel.

AMD’s Phenom II is very competitive, but the strategy does not have much long term staying power. AMD needs to introduce smaller die versions of its CPUs soon.

The deeper ramifications of AMD’s current situation are troubling. I’m not sure what impact all of this is having on the development of AMD’s next-generation architectures, but I suspect that it can’t be good.

The Test

Motherboard: Intel DX48BT2 (Intel X48)
MSI DKA790GX Platinum (AMD 790GX)
Chipset: Intel X48
AMD 790GX
Chipset Drivers: Intel 9.1.1.1010 (Intel)
AMD Catalyst 8.12
Hard Disk: Intel X25-M SSD (80GB)
Memory: G.Skill DDR2-800 2 x 2GB (4-4-4-12)
G.Skill DDR2-1066 2 x 2GB (5-5-5-15)
Qimonda DDR3-1066 4 x 1GB (7-7-7-20)
Video Card: eVGA GeForce GTX 280
Video Drivers: NVIDIA ForceWare 180.43 (Vista64)
NVIDIA ForceWare 178.24 (Vista32)
Desktop Resolution: 1920 x 1200
OS: Windows Vista Ultimate 32-bit (for SYSMark)
Windows Vista Ultimate 64-bit
SYSMark 2007 Performance   Next Page

 
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59 Comments - Last by enu73, 169 days ago
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no VT by 8steve8, 278 days ago
no Virtualization Tech... so no windows 7 virtual PC, no hyper-v...

that sucks.

rather go phenom 2, intel e8xxx or q9xxx

Reply
RE: no VT by GeorgeH, 278 days ago
+1

No support for Windows 7 XP Mode is the reason I chose AMD over an Intel Q8X00 in the PC I just built.

Reply
RE: no VT by leomax999, 278 days ago
Intel has announced vt support for Q8300, E7400, E7500, E5300, E5400.
So i dont see any reason why q8400 shouldnt get it.
http://www.tcmagazine.com/comments.php?shownews=25886&catid=2

Reply
RE: no VT by duploxxx, 278 days ago
oh great 2 versions of cpu just because of painfull wrong marketing decissions in the past.

way to go intel ....and what about all the other q8xxx series? or a full list of mobile cpu's

Reply
RE: no VT by Samus, 278 days ago
its just disabled in hardware, which means it can be re-enabled, just like cores can be re-enabled on phenom x3. just let someone figure it out. they will. they always do :)

Reply
RE: no VT by Roland00, 277 days ago
you can re-enable the Phenom II tri cores for they were disabled via software.

If the chip is disable via hardware (using a laser to disable parts of the chip) then there is nothing you can do to re-enable the chip. Then first generation Phenoms can't be re-enabled for it was disabled via hardware.

Reply
RE: no VT by JumpingJack, 248 days ago
Depends on how it is disabled. Fusing in a chip can be actual diabling of circuits or actual 1's and 0's that make the logic read by the BIOS at startup (such as CPUID), the CPUID then dictates from BIOS code feature sets etc. etc. that are enabled.

This is how quads arise from tri-cores and dual cores from AMD -- the core is not physically fused off/disconnected, rather the BIOS reads a certain CPUID and identifies it as 'a tri-core'. In such a case, features can be turned 'on' or 'off' simply by updating the BIOS.


Reply
RE: no VT by piroroadkill, 278 days ago
iirc amd-v is better than intel vt

Reply
RE: no VT by Anand Lal Shimpi, 277 days ago
You are very correct - Intel just informed me that the Q8400 has VT-x from the start. The other CPUs you mentioned will get VT in the latest versions but I don't believe it's retroactive. I believe it's a new silicon revision for those chips that enables it, but all Q8400s have it.

Take care,
Anand

Reply
RE: no VT by leomax999, 278 days ago
Intel has announced vt support for Q8300, E7400, E7500, E5300, E5400.
So i dont see any reason why q8400 shouldnt get it.
http://www.tcmagazine.com/comments.php?shownews=25886&catid=2

Reply
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