Holiday 2010 System Builder's Guide

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• JarredWalton - Friday, November 19, 2010 - link

  While it would be great if Bulldozer could run in current motherboards, all the information I've been able to gather (including asking a contact at a motherboard manufacturer) is that Bulldozer for desktops will run in AM3r2. That socket will be similar to AM3, and it will be able to accept and run current AM3 processors, but the reverse isn't true. So, in essence it's the AM2+ situation again.
  
  If you search AMD's site, there's no mention of AM3r2 that I can find outside of their forums. It's still possible that we're mistaken, but AMD hasn't unequivocally stated that "yes BD will work in current motherboards" so I wouldn't count on it. I think originally the idea was to try and make it happen, but now it's not guaranteed.
  
  If you really want to go to the rumor mill, BD might actually work in current boards but might blow caps or have reduced performance. Maybe someone will come out with a fix. All indications however are that there will be new chipsets (980/990 most likely), a new socket requirements, etc. I guess it may be a lot like the socket 775 transitions from Intel where we had a few manufacturers that got older 945P chipsets to run Core 2 and such.

• JarredWalton - Friday, November 19, 2010 - link

  Just to add a bit more: Phenom X6 will technically work in many 790FX motherboards... but it's not the same as running it in an 890FX. 790FX wasn't designed for Turbo Core, it has some power management issues with Thuban, etc. We have seen similar issues with previous updates where a CPU would work, but it didn't perform optimally. We may see that with Bulldozer as well, where it will run in 800 series boards with a BIOS update but it very likely will run best with a new motherboard/chipset. If AMD and their partners can prove me wrong, I'd be very pleased, but based on at least one source I'm not holding out much hope.

• blotto5 - Saturday, November 20, 2010 - link

  thanks for the info good to know since im running a phenom x6 in a 790fx mobo but i think im going to wait to buy a new mobo because of this talk of a new socket a la am2 to am2+

• baba264 - Friday, November 19, 2010 - link

  This comes quite handy as after the death of my graphic card two days ago, I was seriously thinking of buying a new system that would be quite similar to "Ryan's High-End Gaming System".
  
  However, when I had previewed the various parts I wanted, I had set my mind on a new lynnfield core with an i7 870 rather than the old Bloomfield core. Since I don't plan to upgrade to an SLI setting I thought that the i7 870 was the best choice of processor (for the price), was I mistaken?
  
  Anyway, thanks for the article, this article really comforts me in what I meant to buy.

• Ryan Smith - Friday, November 19, 2010 - link

  The 870 is quite good. In fact when I was putting that list together I was seriously considering that instead of an X58 platform. The clincher was SLI support (P55 boards with SLI quickly drive the price up); but since you're not going to be using SLI I wouldn't be concerned.

• mapesdhs - Friday, November 19, 2010 - link

  
  P55 boards run very nicely SLI, easily outperforming X58 boards, and that's
  with an 860, never mind an 870. See my results pages:
  
  http://www.sgidepot.co.uk/misc/pctests.html
  http://www.sgidepot.co.uk/misc/stalkercopbench.txt
  
  Further tests coming soon with an 870 + GTX 460 FTW SLI.
  
  it's only really 3-way SLI where X58 takes over. For 2-way, the speeds
  are just as good (if not better) and the costs are significantly lower - the
  board I'm using costs less than 70 UKP ($110).
  
  Ian.

• JarredWalton - Friday, November 19, 2010 - link

  Color me confused, but those links don't seem to provide the data you're talking about. The question is how something like i7-930 with X58 compares to i7-860 with P55 while everything else is kept constant, and all the stuff there looks like 930 + 4870 CF or 460 SLI, and 860 + 8800 GT SLI, or some other sets of data. You'd need to show X58 460 SLI vs. P55 460 SLI to "prove" that P55 is "easily outperforming X58 boards". And if you do everything with similar quality components, the X58 ought to win out by virtue of having two x16 connects compared to two x8 connects on P55.

• mapesdhs - Friday, November 19, 2010 - link

  
  (my friend has 4890s, not 4870s)
  
  I'm surprised you'd say that given existing articles have already
  shown that SLI doesn't need full 16x to perform nicely. Some games
  need it because they're written badly (FSX), but others run perfectly
  well at 8X, or even 4X.
  
  Specific data coming soon (still testing) but my point was that the
  existing data already shows the same effect - people on forums
  said the 4890s should win, but they don't much of the time except
  where resolution, etc. are a factor.
  
  I'm still ploughing through my P55/460 tests. All takes time as I'm
  sure you can appreciate. :)
  
  Ian.

• JarredWalton - Friday, November 19, 2010 - link

  I'm not saying X58 is substantially faster by any means; I'm just saying that all things being equal there's no reason P55 should be faster. x8 vs. x16 isn't a huge benefit, but especially with higher clocked CPUs and more powerful GPUs (i.e. GTX 580 or HD 5870) the X58 should come out ahead. Anyway, Gary Key did a pretty direct comparison when he was still with us:
  http://www.anandtech.com/show/2847
  
  In general X58 CF is better than P55 CF, though the margin is never so large as to be alarming. What Gary doesn't show is how the SLI setups compare (probably for lack of an SLI capable P55 board at the time he was with us). I'd figure they're also similar. All told, P55 is faster for single GPUs, but the x8+x8 dual-GPU configuration should and usually does incur a small performance hit.

• mapesdhs - Saturday, November 20, 2010 - link

  
  Generally true, though remember the one advantage which
  can make a difference sometimes (and push it in favour
  of P55) is the better Turbo on the 870, etc. For fixed
  clocks, have a look at the CPU scores I get with the
  860 at 4018 for the 3DMark06 CPU tests, compare to
  my friend's 930 at 4136 (and btw, it's not RAM speed;
  I lowered my RAM to match, scores only dropped 1
  or 2%).
  
  You're right though about the top-end cards/CPUs, if
  I was playing at crazy res with expensive cards like
  the 580 then X58 would be more logical. For midrange
  though, like the 460 (with or without SLI), the gain from
  X58 is minimal at best - the cost difference (which
  may be large) can be used to have a better GPU,
  widening the gap further.
  
  And by cost difference I mean, for example, the Asrock
  P55 Deluxe, which is now as cheap as 68 UKP here.
  It has excellent slot spacing for SLI, ie. better cooling.
  
  Either way, we shall see; after doing default tests, my
  plan is to run the FTWs at lower clocks to match my
  friend's Palit Platinums, that should be interesting.
  
  All I'm saying is, don't be surprised if P55/SLI runs
  better than you might expect. I certainly didn't think
  two 8800GT SLI would be able to match or beat
  an X58 with two 4890s, but they can and do.
  
  Ian.