Phenom II Overclocking
It has been quite a while coming, but AMD fans can once again put together a screaming overclocking system with Phenom II. There are two apparent CPU candidates for the Phenom II OC system. The obvious choice might appear to be the 940BE, but the new 720BE has many charms at a lower price. Personally we would prefer the upcoming 945BE as the CPU for a monster Phenom II OC system, but that CPU is not currently available though it should appear beginning in April. For those reasons the 720BE is the heart of the Phenom II OC system.
As discussed in many overclocking articles here, there are normally two types of overclockers. First are those who overclock for value, which are those that select cheaper parts rated at lower specs for their ability to overclock to much higher performance levels. Second, there is the overclocker who is trying to reach the highest overclock possible, and who usually chooses the highest priced and higher-performance parts to overclock even further. This last group should likely wait for the 945BE for the flexibility if nothing else.
Generally, parts were selected because they are a good value that becomes an outstanding value when overclocked. Since the newer Phenom II processors, like the 720BE, support either DDR3 or DDR2 there are two Phenom II Overclocking systems - DDR3 and DDR2. They only differ in the motherboard and memory choice.
The choice of the $145 Phenom X3 720BE for the Overclocking System pushes our OC perspective toward the value side of the overclocking equation. That means we have paired the 720 with a new DDR3 $135 motherboard instead of the very best $200 ASUS M4A79 Deluxe. It also means we matched the Full HD monitor with a cheaper video card that can deliver performance as good as you will likely get on a 1920x1080 monitor. It makes little sense to suggest a higher performing video card or CF or SLI graphics system if you can only see the better performance on a 30" monitor that is not part of this system.
| Phenom II DDR3 Overclocking PC | ||
| Hardware | Component | Price |
| Processor | AMD Phenom II X3 720 BE (2.8GHzx3, 3x512KB L2, 6MB L3 Cache) | $145 |
| Cooling | Xigmatek Dark Knight-S1283V 120mm Long Life Bearing CPU Cooler - Retail | $40 |
| Video | MSI R4850-512M OC Radeon HD 4850 512MB ($30 Rebate) | $125 |
| Motherboard | Asus M4A78T-E | $135 |
| Memory | OCZ Reaper HPC 4GB (2 x 2GB) DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Dual Channel Kit Model OCZ3RPR16004GK ($40 Rebate) | $65 |
| Hard Drive | Samsung SpinPoint F1 HD103UJ 1TB | $100 |
| Optical Drive | LG BD/HD DVD / 16x DVD+/- RW GGC-H20L - Retail | $115 |
| Audio | On-Board Audio | - |
| Case | COOLER MASTER Centurion 534 RC-534-SKN2-GP Black/Silver Aluminum & Mesh Bezel ATX Mid Tower | $50 |
| Power Supply | BFG Tech LS Series LS-550 550W Continuous@40C SLI Certified CrossFire Ready 80 PLUS Certified ($20 Rebate) | $60 |
| Base System Total | $835 | |
| Display | ASUS VH222H Black 21.5" 5ms HDMI Full HD Widescreen LCD Monitor (1920x1080) | $180 |
| Speakers | Logitech X-540 70 Watts 5.1 Speaker System ($20 Rebate) | $59 |
| Keyboard | Logitech G11 USB Gaming Keyboard | $59 |
| Mouse | Logitech MX518 8-Button/1 Wheel USB 1800dpi Laser Mouse | $40 |
| Operating System | Microsoft Vista Home Premium OEM | $99 |
| Complete System Price | $1272 | |
 |
| Phenom II DDR2 Overclocking PC | ||
| Hardware | Component | Price |
| Processor | AMD Phenom II X3 720 BE (2.8GHzx3, 3x512KB L2, 6MB L3 Cache) | $145 |
| Cooling | Xigmatek Dark Knight-S1283V 120mm Long Life Bearing CPU Cooler - Retail | $40 |
| Video | MSI R4850-512M OC Radeon HD 4850 512MB ($30 Rebate) | $125 |
| Motherboard | Gigabyte GA-MA790GP-UD4H | $139 |
| Memory | OCZ Reaper 4GB (2 x 2GB) DDR2-1150 (PC2 9200) ($15 Rebate) | $66 |
| Hard Drive | Samsung Spinpoint F1 HD103UJ 1TB | $100 |
| Optical Drive | LG BD/HD DVD / 16x DVD+/- RW GGC-H20L - Retail | $115 |
| Audio | On-Board Audio | - |
| Case | Cooler Master Centurion 534 RC-534-SKN2-GP Black/Silver Aluminum & Mesh Bezel ATX Mid Tower | $50 |
| Power Supply | BFG Tech LS SERIES LS-550 550W Continuous@40C SLI Certified CrossFire Ready 80 PLUS Certified ($20 Rebate) | $60 |
| Base System Total | $840 | |
| Display | ASUS VH222H Black 21.5" 5ms HDMI Full HD Widescreen LCD Monitor (1920x1080) | $180 |
| Speakers | Logitech X-540 70 Watts 5.1 Speaker System ($20 Rebate) | $59 |
| Keyboard | Logitech G11 USB Gaming Keyboard | $59 |
| Mouse | Logitech MX518 8-Button/1 Wheel USB 1800dpi Optical Mouse | $40 |
| Operating System | Microsoft Vista Home Premium OEM | $99 |
| Complete System Price | $1277 | |
 |
 |
 |
 |
 |
 |
 |
 |
 |
 |
 |
The last area to discuss is input devices, where we went with gamer value favorites in the Logitech G11 USB gaming keyboard and the MX518 8-button mouse. Both are very well regarded devices that fit well with the capabilities and concept of the Phenom II Overclocking system. If gaming is not your goal you could easily move to the $16 Microsoft OEM keyboard and mouse used in the Entry Phenom II build and get the complete system price down to $1194. If you will use your OC system for graphics and photo editing but not gaming, you can also drop the G11/MX518 and select precision input devices that better fit your needs.
Facebook
Twitter
RSS
49 Comments
View All Comments
Adul - Monday, March 2, 2009 - link
The last area to discuss is input devices, where we went with gamer value favorites in the Logitech G11 USB gaming keyboard and the MX518 8-button laser mouse.This is an optical mouse. You mean the G5 Laser mouse that is found in a 8 button configuration perhaps?
oldscotch - Monday, March 2, 2009 - link
Did I read that correctly? The DDR3 kit was actually cheaper than the DDR2?If that's the case, is there any point in going with DDR2 for a new build? It would seem to me that it's better futureproofing with an AM3/DDR3 setup.
Wesley Fink - Monday, March 2, 2009 - link
As sometimes happens after we recommend a product, the etailer stopped the rebate on the Reaper 4GB DDR3-1600 and raised the price substantially. I guess that is supply and demand.A very good alternative is the Patriot DDR3-1600 7-7-7 kit at $90 after rebate, which is just $15 more than the Guide shows for the Reaper DDR3-1600 kit. You can find the Patriot Viper at http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N8...">http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N8... and perhaps the great OCZ Reaper DDR3-1600 7-7-7 price will be back in a few days.
whatthehey - Monday, March 2, 2009 - link
You know, I have some major issues with including mail-in rebates as part of the base system price. It would be a lot better if you removed them from the initial calculation and listed rebates in a separate column. Actually, I could swear you did that before, but it has been a while. There are many reasons for this:1) Rebates are always transitory in nature.
2) Not all companies are great about processing rebates.
3) Many people forget to send in the rebate (or don't do it quickly enough).
Just because someone has a "deal of the week" where $130 RAM is selling for $60 doesn't mean that should go into a buyer's guide. People will refer back to this guide for months perhaps, and every time they see that crazy unattainable price they're going ton wonder what they're doing wrong. I get the point that DDR3 on sale may be cheaper than certain performance DDR2 kits, but get real: DDR3 still has a price premium and likely will for the next 6-9 months.
Incidentally, the best price I could currently find for the OCZ kit you listed is now $122: http://www.avadirect.com/product_details_parts.asp...">http://www.avadirect.com/product_details_parts.asp.... That's a far cry from the $65 you originally quoted. And that really isn't particularly high - the Patriot you mention above is roughly the same price without the rebate. Oh yeah, and I'm pretty sure I saw that OCZ rebate listed as expiring on MARCH 1 2009 last week... so your claim that the "etailer stopped the rebate" is specious at best. Seems more like you picked it based on price last week and didn't bother to verify the duration of the rebate option.
The guide was pretty good overall, but with some questionable commentary and picks in places. RAM and rebates are my biggest beef, but the "Performance" system still ends up feeling like you're being overly kind to AMD. Phenom II really competes with Core 2 Quad on a clock for clock basis, and even there it loses out based on your own testing: http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?...">http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?... You linked that article several times, and yet somehow are still thrilled with the price and performance Phenom II offers. Here's the breakdown. (Sorry to rain on the AMD parade, but someone needs to keep reality in check.)
Sysmark 2007: Q9550 is 9.3% faster than Phenom II 940
Photoshop CS4: Q9550 is 19.8% faster.
DivX 8.5.3: Q9550 is 4.0% faster.
x264 pass 1: Q9550 is 7.0% slower. (One of the few wins for AMD, but your own text indicates this pass is not as important as the second one below.)
x264 pass 2: Q9550 is 5.6% faster.
WME9: Q9550 is 3.1% slower (a small win).
3dsmax 9: Q9550 is 5.6% faster.
Cinebench R10: Q9550 is 0.5% slower (a tie in essence).
POV-Ray 3.73 beta 23: Q9550 is 0.2% faster (another tie).
PAR2: Q9550 is 8.2% slower. (A "big" win for AMD, though I have to say I've never used PAR2 or similar. Maybe for the warez kiddiez this will matter?)
Blender 2.48a: Q9550 is 18.7% faster.
Microsoft Excel 2007: Q9550 is 68.2% faster! (Is this even real-world, or just more of an outlier?)
Sony Vegas Pro 8: Q9550 is 9.9% slower. (Another largish victory for AMD, but this is in a Sony program and I refuse to touch anything Sony.)
Sorenson Squeeze: Q9550 is 0.2% slower (tie).
WinRAR: Q9550 is 5.5% slower (cache limited test perhaps?)
Fallout 3: Q9550 is 1.1% faster (tie - game engine limited?)
Left 4 Dead: Q9550 is 5.7% faster.
Far Cry 2: Q9550 is 23.0% faster! (Wow... that's a huge margin compared to the other games.)
Crysis Warhead: Q9550 is 5.8% faster.
AMD also wins on power consumption, but even a difference of 17W (looking at the Q9650, since the Q9550S is a lower power chip that costs more) is pretty negligible for home users. That works out to around $15 per year or less, even if you're running the system 24/7 at idle (best case scenario).
As for overclocking, I'm far more confident in Intel chips when it comes time to push clock speeds and voltages. Remember that the above results are comparing a 3.0GHz AMD chip to a 2.83GHz Intel chip, and AMD is already losing. The Q9550 can frequently hit 4.0GHz, and even if AMD keeps up in clock speed that would further boost Intel scores by around 6% (i.e. they'd be at the same clock instead of AMD having a 6% advantage).
So, yeah, AMD is competitive... sort of. If you want to support the underdog, you can do so and not feel like you're giving up much. Personally, there are enough instances where Intel is clearly superior with it's old Penryn chip (Far Cry 2, Sysmark, Photoshop for example), not to mention Core i7 which is completely viable at $2000, as you've already shown. I think this final "performance" system is in there just so AMD doesn't feel bad. :-p
Note that I'm not accusing you of being biased or fanboys. That shit gets thrown around way too much. I'm just saying you could have been a bit more reserved with your praise of AMD, considering all they're really doing is closing the gap with Intel's outgoing architecture. The truly sad thing is that Core i7 is a similar size chip to Phenom II and is substantially faster (I've seen 263mm^2 vs. 258mm^2 listed), and as you pointed out Penryn is only 164mm^2. AMD is not at all in a pretty position, as Intel could drop prices on Core i7 at any time they feel it's necessary, and likewise for Penryn parts!
Kiijibari - Wednesday, March 4, 2009 - link
You might want to check the minimum fps within your games ;-)Wesley Fink - Monday, March 2, 2009 - link
I agree in concept with the idea that rebates can be confusing when included in the pricing. However, with the economy in sad shape right now we are seeing rebates in almost every product category. To ignore the rebates is to reward those who don't use rebates to reduce price.Frankly, I am almost for rewarding those who don't use the rebates, because I truly believe reducing the price is a better way to to create value, but in some categories almost every product is using a rebate to lower the price.
This time I included the rebated price but I did list the rebate amount in parentheses so readers would know which products had a rebated price. What would you suggest as a better method?
Last, I have no problem with the rebate ending on an item if that is what happened on the Reaper DDR3-1600 kit. In fact the memory has now reappeared at $99 with a $20 rebate, which makes it the same price as the Patriot, and $15 more than quoted in the guide. Details are at http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N8...">http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N8....
just4U - Monday, March 2, 2009 - link
What excites many of us about the PII's is it adds more options to the table for system builds. It can always be a bit of trial to fit what you want into a budget afterall. Something to consider ...Your paying (in the States) I believe 20% more for the 9550 for a mere 2% gain (overall) Here in Canada Your paying 30% more for that gain which could be spent on it, saved, or put into other parts. Those are nice options to have. Plus getting certain parts (for those that by locally) can be a bit of a pain with stock always a issues so having more options to go with is excellent.
No reason not to cheer on these new cpu's as they open up a closed market that was totally dominated by Intel... Now it's not. What's so bad about that?
whatthehey - Monday, March 2, 2009 - link
Prices I can find right now are $254.50 for the Q9550 and $214.50 for the Phenom II 940, which is indeed a 20% increase. However, it's only an ~2.5% increase in total system cost (not counting peripherals). Both prices for CPUs came from eWiz, a pretty major vendor that I've used and had a good experience with:http://www.ewiz.com/detail.php?p=HDZ940XCBX&c=...">http://www.ewiz.com/detail.php?p=HDZ940...efb4b1c0...
http://www.ewiz.com/detail.php?p=Q9550&c=fr&am...">http://www.ewiz.com/detail.php?p=Q9550&...efb4b1c0...
Moreover, their own list of parts for a Core i7 system is only $100 more for roughly similar specs, but much higher performance: http://www.anandtech.com/guides/showdoc.aspx?i=351...">http://www.anandtech.com/guides/showdoc.aspx?i=351... If you're looking at anything close to $1500 for the system, or $2000+ total, you'd have to be pretty stupid (or biased) to stay away from Core i7 right now.
just4U - Monday, March 2, 2009 - link
Oh comeon, that's just a foot in the door price.. If you price out a high end i7 setup with all the bells and whistles it's going to cost substantially more then comparable PII's or Q9x ddr2 solutions. The I7 isn't even a consideration for most and sure as hell isn't the platform that's selling like hotcakes in the desktop market. All Amd's new products have done is offer choices in one of the highest selling areas that was dominated by intel. That's something that's good all around and that's what many of us are pleased about.Also last I checked (in reference to the anandtech link) most of us are not buying $300 motherboards, Nor are we buying 3G kits. I don't know about you but If I was of a mind to pay that much for my motherboard I certainly wouldn't be settling for anything less then 6G since anything less then 4 would a downgrade.
JarredWalton - Tuesday, March 3, 2009 - link
Just to throw it out:http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N8...">3x2GB DDR3-1600 for $100
With other price corrections and a less expensive X58 motherboard, Core i7 really isn't *that* much more than Phenom II, assuming you're buying the whole setup. If you're reusing some existing components, particularly RAM or motherboard, Phenom II has a lot more going for it. Head to head I have to agree that personally there's no way I'm spending upwards of $1000 without giving a real serious look at Core i7 platforms.
That said, I'm quite happy with my aging Core 2 Quad systems. I've got a 975X with a QX6700 (@3.2GHz) and an X38 with Q6600 (@3.30GHz). I really have no serious need for anything faster right now.