Scythe Andy Samurai Master vs. Thermaltake MaxOrb
by Wesley Fink on June 4, 2007 5:00 AM EST- Posted in
- Cases/Cooling/PSUs
Scaling of Cooling Performance
The Andy Samurai and MaxOrb were excellent at stock idle and average among top coolers at stock load. However, as overclocks were raised, neither cooler was particularly outstanding in the ability to cool the CPU under stress conditions. To be as fair as possible all overclocking tests were run with the MaxOrb fan at the highest speed. The Scythe Andy Samurai has a fixed speed fan.
At 2.93GHz the retail HSF is running at 41C, compared to 29C with the MaxOrb and Andy Samurai at 29C. This is not the best performance seen in our tests at idle, but it is competitive with the top coolers tested so far. This is a delta of 12C. The delta becomes greater as the overclock increases. At 3.73GHz when idle the retail fan is 56C compared to the MaxOrb at 40 and the Scythe Andy Samurai Master at 41C - a delta of 15C to 16C. The cooling performance of MaxOrb and Andy Samurai are much better than the Intel Retail cooler at idle, but they do not reach the same cooling levels seen in the Thermalright coolers or Tuniq 120. The top Thermalright Ultra-120 eXtreme, for example is at 33C at the same 3.73GHz, and it is still cooler at 36C at the much higher overclock of 3.94GHz.
Cooling efficiency of the Scythe Andy Samurai Master and Thermalright MaxOrb were compared under load conditions to the retail HSF and other recently tested CPU coolers. Load testing can be very revealing of a cooler's efficiency. A basically flat line, particularly form 3.73GHz upward, indicates the cooler is still in its best cooling range. A line that is increasing rapidly indicates a cooler nearing the end of its ability to cool efficiently. Lines which parallel the best coolers over a range of values are showing similar efficiency slopes.
The MaxOrb and Andy Samurai are both very efficient in cooling in the 2.93GHz to 3.73GHz overclock range. The MaxOrb continues on to a highest overclock of only 3.83GHz, which is well short of the 3.90GHz to 3.94GHz most of the top coolers in our testing have achieved. The Scythe Andy Samurai fares even worse, topping out at just 3.81GHz. Both these coolers cost around $50, which is definitely in the range of the top-of-the-line coolers we have tested. However, neither cooler is really performing any better than some of the $20 to $30 coolers we have tested.
As stated many times, the overclocking abilities of the CPU will vary at the top, depending on the CPU. This particular CPU does higher FSB speeds than any X6800 we have tested, but the 3.9GHz top speed with the Tuniq is pretty average among the X6800 processors we have tested with Tuniq cooling. A few of the other processors tested with the best air coolers reach just over 4 GHz, but the range has been 3.8 to 4.0GHz. Stock cooling generally tops out 200 to 400 MHz lower, depending on the CPU, on the processors tested in our lab. The 3.83 GHz with the Thermalright MaxOrb and 3.81 GHz with the Scythe Andy Samurai Master - both achieved with the cooler fans at their highest levels - are average at best. We would expect premium-priced CPU coolers to perform better.
The Andy Samurai and MaxOrb were excellent at stock idle and average among top coolers at stock load. However, as overclocks were raised, neither cooler was particularly outstanding in the ability to cool the CPU under stress conditions. To be as fair as possible all overclocking tests were run with the MaxOrb fan at the highest speed. The Scythe Andy Samurai has a fixed speed fan.
At 2.93GHz the retail HSF is running at 41C, compared to 29C with the MaxOrb and Andy Samurai at 29C. This is not the best performance seen in our tests at idle, but it is competitive with the top coolers tested so far. This is a delta of 12C. The delta becomes greater as the overclock increases. At 3.73GHz when idle the retail fan is 56C compared to the MaxOrb at 40 and the Scythe Andy Samurai Master at 41C - a delta of 15C to 16C. The cooling performance of MaxOrb and Andy Samurai are much better than the Intel Retail cooler at idle, but they do not reach the same cooling levels seen in the Thermalright coolers or Tuniq 120. The top Thermalright Ultra-120 eXtreme, for example is at 33C at the same 3.73GHz, and it is still cooler at 36C at the much higher overclock of 3.94GHz.
Cooling efficiency of the Scythe Andy Samurai Master and Thermalright MaxOrb were compared under load conditions to the retail HSF and other recently tested CPU coolers. Load testing can be very revealing of a cooler's efficiency. A basically flat line, particularly form 3.73GHz upward, indicates the cooler is still in its best cooling range. A line that is increasing rapidly indicates a cooler nearing the end of its ability to cool efficiently. Lines which parallel the best coolers over a range of values are showing similar efficiency slopes.
The MaxOrb and Andy Samurai are both very efficient in cooling in the 2.93GHz to 3.73GHz overclock range. The MaxOrb continues on to a highest overclock of only 3.83GHz, which is well short of the 3.90GHz to 3.94GHz most of the top coolers in our testing have achieved. The Scythe Andy Samurai fares even worse, topping out at just 3.81GHz. Both these coolers cost around $50, which is definitely in the range of the top-of-the-line coolers we have tested. However, neither cooler is really performing any better than some of the $20 to $30 coolers we have tested.
As stated many times, the overclocking abilities of the CPU will vary at the top, depending on the CPU. This particular CPU does higher FSB speeds than any X6800 we have tested, but the 3.9GHz top speed with the Tuniq is pretty average among the X6800 processors we have tested with Tuniq cooling. A few of the other processors tested with the best air coolers reach just over 4 GHz, but the range has been 3.8 to 4.0GHz. Stock cooling generally tops out 200 to 400 MHz lower, depending on the CPU, on the processors tested in our lab. The 3.83 GHz with the Thermalright MaxOrb and 3.81 GHz with the Scythe Andy Samurai Master - both achieved with the cooler fans at their highest levels - are average at best. We would expect premium-priced CPU coolers to perform better.
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Wesley Fink - Tuesday, June 5, 2007 - link
We now use a standard quality silver-colored paste in all our reviews. But in our experience and testing the thermal paste makes absolutely no difference in performance. The paste fills gaps and needs to remain fluid and not dry out.A famous review from several years ago showed toothpaste and Kraft Vegimite equal or superior to AS3 - at least until they dried out. The point was use a decent paste but don't obsess on it - as it really makes no difference. This is particularly true now that all the current CPUs use heatspreader covers and you no longer are mounting on a tiny die as you were on AMD Socket A.
rjm55 - Tuesday, June 5, 2007 - link
The review Wesley is talking about was at the Australian site Dan's Data at http://www.dansdata.com/goop.htm">http://www.dansdata.com/goop.htmChunga29 - Monday, June 4, 2007 - link
Whoa! Two articles today? Heh. I was just finishing the 2900 fiasco article and suddenly this shows up. [Big grin!]Only problem with the Hexus article is that overclocking isn't even a factor. I'm a bit confused as to their results, as they have the Zalman 9700 performing in the top of the tested HSFs, trailing the Tuniq by 1C. The AT results show Tuniq leading by 2C at load, but even more interesting is that the AT results are about 10C cooler on every HSF (at least where they overlap).
Oh... WAIT! The Hexus reviews are using a Pentium D Extrene 840!? What in the hell is up with that? Why don't we do some testing with the original Athlon FX-51 while we're at it? While most people won't purchase a $1000 CPU like the X6800, at least Core 2 Duo is very popular and many are OC'ing E6600 chips to similar levels (and beyond). Perhaps the VX is the best HSF when it comes to cooling Pentium D setups... but that's about as far as I'd take the Hexus roundup.
Honestly, I'd like only a few things from AnandTech cooling reviews:
1) Testing on AM2 as well as 775.
2) Temps of various components.
3) More HSFs! Heh. A roundup would be great.
Two HSFs in one ariticle is a start, but how about four or five similar HSFs at a time? Half the material is just filler (copy paste from previous articles), so other than the spec sheets, intro, conclusion, and charts there's not much going on here. Am I the only one that skims (at best) the middle pages?
DrMrLordX - Tuesday, June 5, 2007 - link
Hexus used a Pentium 840D because it's a stupidly hot processor that's cheap. Pentium Ds can easily put out as much heat as Kentsfields.Chunga29 - Tuesday, June 5, 2007 - link
I understand that. The problem is that performance with a Pentium Extreme 840 doesn't really tell you anything about how the cooler will perform with other processors. For what it's worth, a heavily overclocked Core 2 Duo X6800 (or better yet a QX6700) is also a stupidly hot processor. I'd wager that the output of QX6700 easily exceeds the 840EE.Testing with outdated equipment is meaningless, regardless of how hot the old parts get. That's why it would be ideal to see current AM2 performance as well. I remember a LOT of reviews hailing the Zalman 9500 as the greatest cooler ever, and while it appears to do great on AM2 it's pretty average on an overclocked C2D. I hope you can see that the same could easily be true of comparing performance with 840EE to current C2D and AM2 chips.
DrMrLordX - Wednesday, June 6, 2007 - link
Actually, uh, your point isn't really valid. A heavily OCed Smithfield can easily pump out heat like a heavily OCed Kentsfield. Heat is heat as long as its distributed properly by the IHS and properly-applied TIM.The age of the equipment in question is irrelevant unless a particular HSF has a mounting mechanism that is somehow better-suited to one socket or another, not that that's an issue when dealing with Smithfields and Kentsfields (both s775 processors).
Using a Smithfield to test the limit of modern HSFs is entirely appropriate, given its massive heat output that can still rival that of Kentsfields and its socket which is identical to the socket-type used with Conroe and Kentsfield processors.
Stele - Monday, June 4, 2007 - link
I second that, though especially no.(2). That would help decide between a traditional downdraught HSF blowing air onto the motherboard vs. the tower ones.
It might be useful to have a proper cross flow of air through the case too, e.g. one 120mm fan each for intake and exhaust. This would not only be more reflective of regular casing setups but would also ensure a level playing field - otherwise the tower ones may potentially have a greater advantage over the downdraught ones (since they can exhaust hot air out of the case through the case rear) than real-life setups may show.
How about including the Enzotech Ultra-X in a future review? Seems to be quite a good performer by all accounts! :P
Wesley Fink - Monday, June 4, 2007 - link
The MaxOrb is reputed to be at least the equal of the Big Typhoon VX in performance and it is a more recent design.We have an Enzotech Ultra-X in for testing. You will see it in a future review.
We had planned a big spread on board component temperatures, but when the down-facing fans didn't even come close to the heatpipe towers in cooling efficiency or overclcoking it became a moot point. IF the down fans really cooled better they would cool more efficiently and/or allow a higher overclock. Neither is the case in our tests. We run our top OC speed with a pretty hefty chipset voltage increase, and if the dowh-facers cooled components better we would get a better overclock, or at least an equal OC. Instead OC is average at best with all 3 expensive down-face designs.
DrMrLordX - Tuesday, June 5, 2007 - link
Reputed by who? Would it really kill you guys to review the Big Typhoon VX, or an older Big Typhoon with an FM-121?The Big Typhoon has had at least one other good showing here:
http://forum.abit-usa.com/showthread.php?t=103462">http://forum.abit-usa.com/showthread.php?t=103462
It beat the Tuniq Tower 120 pretty solidly there as well once it had a decent fan in it. Note that at least one of the fans that allowed the Big Typhoon to defeat the Tuniq Tower 120 has approxmiately the same cfm rating as the fan included with the Big Typhoon VX.
Chunga29 - Monday, June 4, 2007 - link
Addendum: it might be interesting (although it's too late now) to test with an E6600 instead of the X6800... maybe switch to a Q6600 in the future? When AM2 gets quad core (if it gets quad core?), I'd like to see head-to-head comparisons of HSfs on both platforms. Maybe retest the current leaders for reference (Ultra-120/eXtreme, Tuniq, Hyper6+, and a couple others?)