Final Words

We were impressed with the performance and overclocking that we found with the 90nm 3500+. However, it is very difficult to draw any conclusions based on a single sample, so we also bought a 90nm 3000+ from another vendor. These two processors, at different speeds and from different sources, performed similarly enough to allow us to draw some broad conclusions about the performance of the new 90nm Athlon 64 processors. The new 3500+, 3200+, and 3000+ perform from 1% to 7% faster than comparable 130nm parts. We still don't know if this is the result of the die-shrink or the new DH8-D0 revision. We checked all recent Athlon 64 in the lab and we could not find a D0 A64 for comparison. We have asked AMD to shed some light on what we found in our testing, and we will report what AMD says about the performance improvements as soon as we receive the information from AMD.

Based on the Performance tests alone, there is reason to be pleased with what we know of the AMD die-shrink so far. If you also consider the fact that AMD appears to have accomplished the shrink to 90nm without an increase in heat, the process move should be considered a big success. We won't know this for sure until we see the fastest AMD chips in 90nm clothes - that is where the thermal impact of the shrink will be most visible.

The other side of the equation is headroom or overclocking. AMD enthusiasts have always seemed to flock to value chips in the AMD family. More than Intel users, AMD enthusiasts seem to always want something for nothing. It's not because they are cheap necessarily, but because AMD won them over by providing outstanding value points in their product line. In fact, many AMD users have hung on to Socket A technology long after it was significantly outperformed in the market because they could buy the Athlon XP cheap and overclock the heck out of it. Those users will love the new 90nm chips in general - and the 90nm 3000+ in particular.

They will love the new 90nm chips because they can buy a 3000+ running at 1.8GHz for less than $200 and still have a good chance of reaching 2.6GHz with very little effort with the same chip. 2.6GHz is faster than any current Athlon 64, and it is, in fact, the speed that we expect from the upcoming FX55 - the new Athlon 64 top-of-the-line. It's been a while since we've seen this kind of headroom on an AMD chip, and those who were waiting for 90nm to get a magic overclocker will get in line to buy the new 90nm 3000+.

The major impact of the new 90nm Athlon 64 chips may not be quite as obvious. Prior to the new 3000+, 3200+, and 3500+ 90nm chips, the entry point to dual-channel 939 was the $400 3500+. As a result, buyers saw the Socket 754 as the value solution for Athlon 64 shoppers, where they could buy a 754 Sempron 3100+ for about $120 or a full 64-bit 2800+ for around $140. The new 3000+ should cost about the same as the 130nm 3000+ once the new settles into the market. That will make the cost of entry for the top 939 chipset well below $200 for the CPU. Many buyers who would have bought 939 if it had been cheaper will now be able to buy 939.

This leads us to future directions for 754 and 939. Roadmaps show 754 ending in late 2005, but 5 quarters is still a lifetime in CPU sockets. AMD plans to discontinue Socket A and move all processors to Socket 754/939/940. This will likely mean that we will see even cheaper 754 processors to entice buyers who found Athlon XP prices attractive. 754 will likely move much lower before it goes away in a year or so, and 939 will also likely move down a bit further as 90nm is fully implemented and production costs go down. All-in-all, it's becoming a very good time to be in the market for an Athlon 64 processor.

Gaming Performance
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  • Live - Tuesday, October 19, 2004 - link

    Great read!

    Good work Wesley Fink.

    I looks like I am finally getting close to being able to upgrade my athlon xp setup without breaking the bank and get a real performance boost I feel the earlier A64 cpus and mobos lacked. To bad the PCIe problem is still around. I dont want an upgrade that requires a new motherboard with my next GPU purchase.
  • toNka64 - Tuesday, October 19, 2004 - link

    I currently have an A64 3200 Clawhammer on a VIA K8T800, so OCing is a no go without a working AGP/PCI lock. I have a Coolmax Taurus 400w PSU and OCZ EL Platinum 1GB (2x512) memory (2-3-2-5).
    If I upgraded my mobo to the Neo2 and my CPU to the 300+, do you think i could hit 2.6GHz with my current memory and PSU?
  • Doormat - Saturday, October 16, 2004 - link

    Yea, I'm beginning to think I should get a 3200, a conservative OC would be 2.5GHz at 10x250. And DDR500 isnt that hard to get a hold of. Plus it fits in nicely with a 1GHz hypertransport bus.
  • BBoe - Saturday, October 16, 2004 - link

    Is this FSB of 290 for reals? It really sounds like a big leap from the 250 or 261.
  • PrinceGaz - Saturday, October 16, 2004 - link

    People who want the best performance and value ought to get the 3200+ instead of the 3000+ as it not only stands a better chance of reaching something like 2610MHz than the 3000+, but it should do so at a slightly lower voltage.

    More importantly, the memory with the 3200+ could run 1:1 at 261x10 instead of the 290x9 required by the 3000+. Even though the 3200+ will be a little more expensive than the 3000+, theres a much better chance of finding reasonably priced memory which can run at DDR522 with good timings, than there is of memory that can manage DDR580. At least with the 3200+ you've got the choice of a 9x or 10x multiplier to get the best out of your memory.
  • rjm55 - Saturday, October 16, 2004 - link

    I know you used OCZ with Samsung TCCD for this review, but you have said in past reviews that any TCCD will come close to these memory results. That means you can choose Samsung TCCD from Corsair, Mushkin, Kingston, OCZ, Geil, PQI, and probably others. Crucial Ballistix is another choice from your Athlon 64 memory tests. Those concerned about Value ought to shop all the TCCD brands and Crucial Ballistix, because some are cheaper than others.
  • Wesley Fink - Friday, October 15, 2004 - link

    #62 - The MSI K8N Neo2 can be set to Auto, 100, 133, 166, 200 (DDR200,266,333,400 or 1:2.2:3,5:6,1:1). With these ratios you could run 290 FSB with a 2:3 ratio (266) and memory would be at DDR387, at 5:6 (333) mem would be running at DDR482.
  • ThePlagiarmaster - Friday, October 15, 2004 - link

    Wesley:

    Could you answer my #43 post about memory ratios on the board you tested with?

    Thanks
  • PrinceGaz - Friday, October 15, 2004 - link

    #58- tha major selling point of nForce 4 will be PCIe support, if you don't want PCIe then get an nForce3 instead. The Inquirer claim to have a piccy of MSI's new nForce4 S939 board at

    http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=19026

    That is presumably the successor of the popular K8N Neo2 Platinum. Its a shame it only has two PCIe x1 sockets and still has four old PCI sockets, I'd have liked to see at least three PCIe x1 and just a couple of PCI for legacy support.
  • ciwell - Friday, October 15, 2004 - link

    Can you address the RAM question posted above?

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