Lenovo ThinkStation P300 Workstation Review: Haswell plus Quadro
by Ian Cutress on November 4, 2014 10:00 AM EST- Posted in
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Lenovo ThinkStation P300 Conclusion
When we reported on Lenovo’s Haswell-E range of ThinkStations, the P500, the P700 and the P900, the visual aspect of those produced a substantial wow factor. The P300 takes a slightly different tack due to its lower price point stance away from HPC workstations and supporting the Haswell processor range instead, but the product itself looks right at home as an under the desk workstation.
However, there are certainly a few critiques to level at the feet of the P300.
First of which is the DRAM situation. In 2014 it is difficult to imagine a dual-channel capable system being shipped with only one module of memory. It cripples any memory related transaction. To put this into perspective, even the iMac recently released by Apple comes with two 4GB modules as the default option. To alleviate the situation currently via Lenovo's ordering interface requires a $395 upgrade for a $70 stick of 8GB DDR3-1600 C11 memory. That goes beyond some of the surprise when mobile manufacturers announce NAND upgrades. The other option would be to offer a 2x4GB option, however on the US website from my location this does not seem possible, let alone the default option. If a user purposefully wants one DRAM module, they should have to select it, ideally with a disclaimer indicating a potential loss of performance. It is worth noting that a user could add in their memory into the system, although that typically violates most warranties or direct support requests. At this point I would implore Lenovo to offer a 2x4 GB option at the same cost as the 1x8 GB option and it would receive a lot better press.
Secondly is the upgradability. The motherboard designed for the P300 has at least three free SATA ports and an x16/x1 arrangement on the full length PCIe lanes. This is fine if you have no plans for future upgrades, but it puts a spanner in the works if anyone wants to add more internal storage or a second workstation level PCIe card. The SATA ports are arranged in such a way that any long PCIe device will be blocked by the SATA ports. The PCIe lane arrangement also favors the top card in all situations, whereas an x8/x8 arrangement would give each PCIe device equal billing (given that all PCIe coprocessors such as Quadro, FirePro or Xeon Phi will work at x8). The motherboard is a micro-ATX size, indicating that more function can be added, otherwise one might have seen a mini-ITX be used instead. To add to the upgrade issue, there is only default space for two storage drives, so users wanting more than two SATA devices alongside their ODD will need to re-purpose one of the large ODD bays.
The power supply is right on the money in terms of power and rating, although the lack of extra connectors for PCIe devices should be noted. The 24-pin ATX power connector is also split into several parts due to the motherboard layout, making a simple replacement difficult. If you want something bigger, Lenovo would have to supply it. Another issue is the storage itself, where Lenovo included in our system a 1 TB SSHD from Seagate. While this might seem the best of both worlds in terms of SSD and space, I would argue that a workstation that costs $2150 should get an OS SSD and a 1-2 TB storage drive, even if in a caching arrangement.
One thing I liked about the P300 is actually related to the Quadro selection. The build we received had a Quadro K4000 3GB, which retails for $800. This is a professional grade GTX 650 Ti for all intents and purposes with 768 CUDA cores at 810 MHz. When we received the system, Lenovo offered an upgrade to the K4200, or the equivalent of a GTX 660. This means a rise to 1344 CUDA cores (+75%) at 780 MHz for only an extra $175 (16%). For anyone that uses software that can be sped up by a Quadro card, this is an example of a no-brainer upgrade. At the time of this review going live, Lenovo has now placed the K4200 as the default option, making everyone take advantage of the faster card. If a user wants more though, Lenovo suggests moving up to the P500.
The option to offer Windows 7 with disks to upgrade to Windows 8 is commendable. While Windows 8/8.1 is the default for many pre-built systems, many users still like Windows 7 depending in their use scenario. This costs nothing extra when choosing the system.
Overall performance of the P300 system we were sent came in line with a Haswell i7-4770 albeit with only a single memory channel equipped. This had repercussions on our memory intensive software, especially fluid dynamics and OpenSSL.
If you went out and built this system today, it would cost around $300-400 cheaper than what Lenovo is offering, although Lenovo’s system comes with their extended ThinkStation support and all that entails. If you upgraded to dual channel memory, that difference between Lenovo and self-build expands to over $600. Even in terms of warranty and support, that is a financial pill to swallow, especially as this workstation focuses on the entry level producer whose budgets might be lower than expected. I would ask Lenovo to offer a 2x4 GB memory option and place it as default, with 1x8 GB as the next option while giving a disclaimer. The next update would be the SSD/storage drive combo, either as is or in a Smart Response arrangement. If all this can be done at the same price, we are on our way to a nice little system.
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Dr.Neale - Wednesday, November 5, 2014 - link
All the more reason why Kenobi should spend at least $20 more for an 8 GB stick of ECC memory, or $110 more for 2 x 8 GB dual-channel ECC memory, instead of saddling the end-user (buyer or lessor) with a crippled single-channel non-ECC memory system. Come on, it's less than the cost of upgrading the GPU from a K4000 to a K4200, and it would enhance the spec sheet considerably.Other things being equal, isn't 16 GB ECC dual-channel memory MUCH more appealing than 8 GB non-ECC single-channel memory???
And it would generate MUCH more favorable reviews!!!
Dr.Neale - Wednesday, November 5, 2014 - link
Damn auto-correct changed "Lenovo" to "Kenobi" !?!?!atl - Friday, November 7, 2014 - link
This configuration is obviously unbalanced and have some funny moments with pricing.1 Unbalanced.
You do not put by default on generic $2000 price range workstation $800 USD video cards.
Yes, with some GPU heavy workloads may require it, but in higher class workstation. Or, if is in this price range - in very rare cases.
Far better balanced will be if for same price get K2200 video card and with spared resources get
32GB RAM, good SSD + 2/4TB high class HDD - WD black or same range from other suppliers.
Also CPU is not well chosen - 1276 is 50% more expensive, but only 8.1% faster than 1230.
2. Funny thing about pricing.
I don't say over expensive, just can't find proper word for it.
Given CPU, RAM, HDD and VGA are commodity and can be obtained with same service/warranty quality from local supplier (sometimes with even better terms) and cost of it is around $1200, this left us with $1000 price tag for PSU/CASE/MB combo.
Note that Lenovo itself obtains this components on very lower than Newegg!!!
Sorry, but i can't imagine how semi commodity PSU for price tag under $100, virtually featureless motherboards and case without any special cooling, 4 PCI slots and even no frontal hot swap disk cases can cost $1000. Ye, i know that MB is "industrial strength, highly redundant, certified, sunroof, ABS, 4x4, etc", but this class MB costs under $300 from other suppliers.
Examples can continue but will stop here...
Dr.Neale - Friday, November 7, 2014 - link
Unbalanced? Agree 100% !Best Bang-for-the-Buck Xeon (Haswell e3-1200 v3 series) = 1230? Disagree!!! Based on SuperBiiz (Price+Shipping):
Retail Box, CPU with no IGP:
1230 (3.3 / 3.7 GHz) $250
1231 (3.4 / 3.8 GHz) $250
1240 (3.4 / 3.8 GHz) $273
1241 (3.5 / 3.9 GHz) $272
1270 (3.5 / 3.9 GHz) $334
1271 (3.6 / 4.0 GHz) $335
Retail Box, CPU with IGP:
1245 (3.4 / 3.8 GHz) $285
1246 (3.5 / 3.9 GHz) $285
1275 (3.5 / 3.9 GHz) $347
1276 (3.6 / 4.0 GHz) $347
Assume a rock-bottom system cost of $1800 + CPU, then:
CPU Cost GHz
1230 $2050 (+0%) 3.3 (+0%)
1231 $2050 (+0%) 3.4 (+3%)
1240 $2073 (+1%) 3.4 (+3%)
1241 $2072 (+1%) 3.5 (+6%)
1245 $2085 (+2%) 3.4 (+3%)
1246 $2085 (+2%) 3.5 (+6%)
1270 $2134 (+4%) 3.5 (+6%)
1271 $2135 (+4%) 3.6 (+9%)
1275 $2147 (+5%) 3.5 (+6%)
1276 $2147 (+5%) 3.6 (+9%)
The IGP only adds about $12 - $13 or 0.6% to the system cost, so might as well get it.
The most expensive CPU, the 1276, raises the system cost by $97 or 4% over the 1230 / 1231, but raises the GHz by 9% / 6% over the 1230 / 1231.
So, the 1276 (or 1271) offer the best bang-for-the-buck, with (without) an IGP.
This is because although the CPU price increases by $97 or 35% (not 50%) in going from the 1230 (1231) to the 1276, the SYTEM price increases by 4%, for a 9% (6%) increase in CPU speed, which dominates the system performance.
P.S. The ASUS P9D WS lists on SuperBiiz for only $233 (price + shipping).
Dr.Neale - Friday, November 7, 2014 - link
Oops, 1271 is 4% increase in SYSTEM price, 1276 is 5%.The conclusion is unchanged.
Dr.Neale - Friday, November 7, 2014 - link
Should read CPU price increases by 39% (not 50%) in going from 1230 (1231) to 1276, the SYSTEM price increases by 5%, for a 9% (6%) increase in CPU speed, which dominates the system performance.NeatOman - Monday, November 10, 2014 - link
$500+ premium charge for the ThinkStation logo, i just did a quick newegg check and you can build the same system for under $1500 and something much better for $2000.. I'm talking about a Crucial M500 that has power loss protection and two server grade 2TB drives to run in RAID 1 (its very easy to change the default directory location for the user files)But considering people that don't have the technical background, $1800 should be a "fair" price for the system with the K4000 leaving Lenovo with a $500+ profit considering they get the parts for cheaper.
NeatOman - Monday, November 10, 2014 - link
The "under $1500" system was with two 8GB 1866 ecc unbuffered ram.vicegrip77 - Friday, December 12, 2014 - link
With the single DIMM it came with clock was at 798Mhz. P300 stock RAM has latencies of 10,10,10,25Bought a Corsair Vengeance DD3-1600 dual channel kit 2x8 gig 9,9,9,24 to upgrade the P300. Memory clock drops to 665.1 MHz. Resulting RAM performance of 1333Mhz...
Stats obtained with HWINFO64 and CPU-Z ... Memory controller has max performance of 800Mhz according to tools so it should be able to clock at aprox 1600.
Really curious about why I can't get 1600 with dual channel ram on my new P300.
Harry_Wild - Tuesday, April 7, 2015 - link
I am in the market for a workstation PC and love ThinkCentre computers! But with this ThinkStation; it very pricey for a decent spec desktop PC! Everything that is upgradable is quite expensive! Going from 4GB to 8 GB is a $200 upgrade charge. Going to a 180GB SSD is additional $200 more! 240 GB is $300 more. Totally overcharge. Lenovo now give you like 5% discount but in order to get a decent PC; it upcharges on upgrades a lot! Not only that; an upgrade on CPU to a i7 4790 or 4770 not sure which one is $290!I going to wait till the 5th generation is release and then buy the 4th generation at a massive discount! That the only way I can buy a P500 or P700 models! P300 is just too limited in expansion slots and memory and storage bays. I looking at sending around $1,200!