AMD Kaveri Review: A8-7600 and A10-7850K Tested
by Ian Cutress & Rahul Garg on January 14, 2014 8:00 AM ESTFinal Words
As with all previous AMD APU launches, we're going to have to break this one down into three parts: CPU, the promise of HSA and GPU.
In a vacuum where all that's available are other AMD parts, Kaveri and its Steamroller cores actually look pretty good. At identical frequencies there's a healthy increase in IPC, and AMD has worked very hard to move its Bulldozer family down to a substantially lower TDP. While Trinity/Richland were happy shipping at 100W, Kaveri is clearly optimized for a much more modern TDP. Performance gains at lower TDPs (45/65W) are significant. In nearly all of our GPU tests, a 45W Kaveri ends up delivering very similar gaming performance to a 100W Richland. The mainstream desktop market has clearly moved to smaller form factors and it's very important that AMD move there as well. Kaveri does just that.
In the broader sense however, Kaveri doesn't really change the CPU story for AMD. Steamroller comes with a good increase in IPC, but without a corresponding increase in frequency AMD fails to move the single threaded CPU performance needle. To make matters worse, Intel's dual-core Haswell parts are priced very aggressively and actually match Kaveri's CPU clocks. With a substantial advantage in IPC and shipping at similar frequencies, a dual-core Core i3 Haswell will deliver much better CPU performance than even the fastest Kaveri at a lower price.
The reality is quite clear by now: AMD isn't going to solve its CPU performance issues with anything from the Bulldozer family. What we need is a replacement architecture, one that I suspect we'll get after Excavator concludes the line in 2015.
In the past AMD has argued that for the majority of users, the CPU performance it delivers today is good enough. While true, it's a dangerous argument to make (one that eventually ends up with you recommending an iPad or Nexus 7). I have to applaud AMD's PR this time around as no one tried to make the argument that CPU performance was somehow irrelevant. Although we tend to keep PR critique off of AnandTech, the fact of the matter is that for every previous APU launch AMD tried its best to convince the press that the problem wasn't with its CPU performance but rather with how we benchmark. With Kaveri, the arguments more or less stopped. AMD has accepted its CPU performance is what it is and seems content to ride this one out. It's a tough position to be in, but it's really the only course of action until Bulldozer goes away.
It's a shame that the CPU story is what it is, because Kaveri finally delivers on the promise of the ATI acquisition from 2006. AMD has finally put forth a truly integrated APU/SoC, treating both CPU and GPU as first class citizens and allowing developers to harness both processors, cooperatively, to work on solving difficult problems and enabling new experiences. In tests where both the CPU and GPU are used, Kaveri looks great as this is exactly the promise of HSA. The clock starts now. It'll still be a matter of years before we see widespread adoption of heterogeneous programming and software, but we finally have the necessary hardware and priced at below $200.
Until then, outside of specific applications and GPU compute workloads, the killer app for Kaveri remains gaming. Here the story really isn't very different than it was with Trinity and Richland. With Haswell Intel went soft on (socketed) desktop graphics, and Kaveri continues to prey on that weakness. If you are building an entry level desktop PC where gaming is a focus, there really isn't a better option. I do wonder how AMD will address memory bandwidth requirements going forward. A dual-channel DDR3 memory interface works surprisingly well for Kaveri. We still see 10 - 30% GPU performance increases over Richland despite not having any increase in memory bandwidth. It's clear that AMD will have to look at something more exotic going forward though.
For casual gaming, AMD is hitting the nail square on the head in its quest for 1080p gaming at 30 frames per second, albeit generally at lower quality settings. There are still a few titles that are starting to stretch the legs of a decent APU (Company of Heroes is practically brutal), but it all comes down to perspective. Let me introduce you to my Granddad. He’s an ex-aerospace engineer, and likes fiddling with stuff. He got onboard the ‘build-your-own’ PC train in about 2002 and stopped there – show him a processor more than a Pentium 4 and he’ll shrug it off as something new-fangled. My grandfather has one amazing geeky quality that shines through though – he has played and completed every Tomb Raider game on the PC he can get his hands on.
It all came to a head this holiday season when he was playing the latest Tomb Raider game. He was running the game on a Pentium D with an NVIDIA 7200GT graphics card. His reactions are not the sharpest, and he did not seem to mind running at sub-5 FPS at a 640x480 resolution. I can imagine many of our readers recoiling at the thought of playing a modern game at 480p with 5 FPS. In the true spirit of the season, I sent him a HD 6750, an identical model to the one in the review today. Despite some issues he had finding drivers (his Google-fu needs a refresher), he loves his new card and can now play reasonably well at 1280x1024 on his old monitor.
The point I am making with this heart-warming/wrenching family story is that the Kaveri APU is probably the ideal fit for what he needs. Strap him up with an A8-7600 and away he goes. It will be faster than anything he has used before, it will play his games as well as that new HD 6750, and when my grandmother wants to surf the web or edit some older images, she will not have to wait around for them to happen. It should all come in with a budget they would like as well.
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ImSpartacus - Thursday, January 16, 2014 - link
"Whether or not AMD decides to develop an APU with more than 8 GCN CUs is another matter. This is a point we've brought up with AMD internally and one that I'm curious about - do any AnandTech readers have an interest in an even higher end APU with substantially more graphics horsepower? Memory bandwidth obviously becomes an issue, but the real question is how valuable an Xbox One/PS4-like APU would be to the community."I would love to see a massive APU with a Pitcairn-sized GPU. I wouldn't mind if it required a 130-150+W TDP.
I love seeing machines like the 4770R-powered Brix Pro. Valve obviously likes it as well, because it became the Steam Box sent to developers.
If I'm getting the performance of a ~$200 GPU, I'd happily pay $300 to get the CPU baked in. I'm hoping DDR4 will allow Intel or AMD to pursue this kind of market.
Haravikk - Friday, January 17, 2014 - link
I'm really interested to find out what the dual graphics performance will be like now that AMD's APUs are much more up-to-date at long last.CrossFire using an APU and a discrete GPU has been entirely underwhelming thanks to how limited compatibility was, so much so that you are always better off fitting a better discrete GPU instead. The only case it remained interesting was for small form factors where the more limited range of low-profile cards (and less aggressive pricing) meant that compatible cards weren't always so far behind newer ones.
But with GCN graphics, HSA and Mantle on the way, maybe we might finally see the benefit of pairing the two rather than just using a better pure CPU and discrete graphics. Of course, we could see some benefit already if more games used OpenCL for physics, since that at least would run quite well on an APU even if the discrete GPU still did all the heavy graphical work.
Klimax - Friday, January 17, 2014 - link
Tests are very incomplete. Where are CPU+GPU results? AMD markets APU as total solution, so as such it should be tested. So far I have seen only Luxmark set of results on TechReport and when CPU+GPU was set, APU lost, because CPU part is sufficiently weak, that not even powerful GPU was able to save it.Also some OpenCL tests are not marked whether CPU+GPU or GPU-only, which can skew things badly.
eanazag - Friday, January 17, 2014 - link
I think this article is good, but it deserves and needs some dings on it because it is on Anandtech. When we look at the benchmark section there is a disconnect between this article (the applications used for benchmarking) and the Bench portion of the website. I have enjoyed and trusted the bench methodologies used on this site over the years and find it a resource I come back to, to help me make purchasing and hardware decisions because of the bench. Over time I will find it difficult to compare findings without the bench. I have no problem with you updating the bench as what has been done with SSDs and GPUs. I just think this article overlooked what becomes the real value of what this site offers if you overlook the ongoing bench portion of this site. I looked in the bench and haven't really seen a whole lot of anything recent on AMD APUs in the bench. That's my first ding.I suspect that if Anand was excited about AMD's release and had reviewed this product we would have gotten a better appreciation of what Kaveri brings to the table. I got the message that the 45W part is a very good in its segment and may be something worth considering, but I did not get what is mentioned in the article. What's the reality of running Kaveri on 1080p? You gave us the high settings, but no one with any sense is going to settle for less than 12 fps. So what are the realistic settings that will give us 20/30+ fps (game depending) performance. What are we really able to work with. I understand Anand is busy and likely not excited about another AMD CPU product release. I get it; it is hard to get excited about desktop and higher wattage laptop parts for AMD because they have been lack luster & underwhelming year over year for so long. I think this product fits in more than just the 45W space, but I didn't get that answer. I am still wondering, which is not what I would normally get at Anandtech. Normally, I would be getting more than I expected from a review. That's my second ding.
This next is a general ding about the bench. You guys do great work here. I am on here about every day. The bench could use some tweaking in relation to the CPU and GPU between laptop and desktop and to an extent mobile. I want to know how a mobile GPU/CPU matches up to a desktop variant. Sometimes I even want to know how they match up in mobile devices (tablets and phones). I have gotten some of that info from articles, but it is rough matching up that info in the mobile (laptop) bench. Sometimes I do want to look at specific laptop info, but most of the time I am just considering the guts of the device. I decide between the trade offs of desktops to laptops in applications. The information is here, but it is not easy to compare. This is an opportunity for improvement, especially given the nature of the changing technology landscape.
This is an addendum to the bench issue. I'd like to compare server processors too. It seems to me like in some niches we might start seeing server parts fill over the places where those highend desktop parts were. I already see this in AMD. Intel is on the cusp of this also. This is something to consider. I'd also like to see some more enterprise items covered in general. AMD is selling ARM servers already? Where have I been? And there are ARM based linuxes available.
Thanks for the great work and timely info.
HisDivineOrder - Saturday, January 18, 2014 - link
"The point I am making with this heart-warming/wrenching family story is that the Kaveri APU is probably the ideal fit for what he needs. Strap him up with an A8-7600 and away he goes. It will be faster than anything he has used before, it will play his games as well as that new HD 6750, and when my grandmother wants to surf the web or edit some older images, she will not have to wait around for them to happen. It should all come in with a budget they would like as well."OR you could buy him a cheapo dual-core CPU from Intel plus a used mid-range card from a year or two ago.
Far better performance for only a bit more. There is an argument forthese APU's in gaming and it's for those who want to game with something like a Gigabyte BRIX-sized computer that trades performance for size.
Performance per dollar does not favor the APU simply because you can get so much more performance ignoring these APU's altogether.
NinuGie - Saturday, January 18, 2014 - link
such wow much fail. until APU comes in desktop format there will always be better alternatives. i want to see an APU compact format and similar to what they did on PS4. shared fast RAM .until then,they suck. i mean this is so bad implemented. and they advertise it for gamers lol. even if you CF the apu with a supprted gpu ,a HD 7770 is better so no thank youarthur42 - Sunday, January 19, 2014 - link
The A10-6700T is in good supply in Europe; I'm running one for months now.aidnr - Monday, January 20, 2014 - link
I'm pretty impressed with what they've done here, it looks like it is pretty evenly matched with Intel's offering - http://versus.com/en/amd-a10-7850k-vs-intel-core-i...Will be interesting to see how widely adopted Mantle is, seems pretty nice.
samal90 - Monday, January 20, 2014 - link
Can someone explain to me how come AMD is able to make an incredible APU capable of running games at almost 60fps on the new consoles but can't make a desktop APU to do so? Why can't they use the same architecture? Maybe I'm missing something...but I'm just wondering.meacupla - Wednesday, January 22, 2014 - link
Because PS4/XB1 is not limited to using FM2+ socket, because they use a much slower CPU portion in PS4/XB1 and because of thermal limits.