AMD Kaveri Review: A8-7600 and A10-7850K Tested
by Ian Cutress & Rahul Garg on January 14, 2014 8:00 AM EST
The first major component launch of 2014 falls at the feet of AMD and the next iteration of its APU platform, Kaveri. Kaveri has been the aim for AMD for several years, it's actually the whole reason the company bought ATI back in 2006. As a result many different prongs of AMD’s platform come together: HSA, hUMA, offloading compute, unifying GPU architectures, developing a software ecosystem around HSA and a scalable architecture. This is, on paper at least, a strong indicator of where the PC processor market is heading in the mainstream segment. For our Kaveri review today we were sampled the 45/65W (cTDP) A8-7600 and 95W A10-7850K Kaveri models. The A10-7850K is available today while the A8 part will be available later in Q1.
The Kaveri Overview
To almost all users, including myself up until a few days ago, Kaveri is just another iteration of AMD’s APU line up that focuses purely on the integrated graphics side of things, while slowly improving the CPU side back to Thuban levels of performance. Up until a few days ago I thought this too, but Kaveri is aiming much higher than this.
Due to the way AMD updates its CPU line, using the ‘tick-tock’ analogy might not be appropriate. Kaveri is AMD’s 3rd generation Bulldozer architecture on a half-node process shrink. Kaveri moves from Global Foundries' 32nm High-K Metal Gate SOI process to its bulk 28nm SHP (Super High Performance) process. The process node shift actually explains a lot about Kaveri's targeting. While the 32nm SOI process was optimized for CPU designs at high frequency, GF's bulk 28nm SHP process is more optimized for density with a frequency tradeoff. AMD refers to this as an "APU optimized" process, somewhere in between what a CPU and what a GPU needs. The result is Kaveri is really built to run at lower frequencies than Trinity/Richland, but is far more dense.
Kaveri is the launch vehicle for AMD's Steamroller CPU architecture, the 3rd iteration of the Bulldozer family (and second to last before moving away from the architectural detour). While Piledriver (Trinity/Richland) brought Bulldozer's power consumption down to more rational levels, Steamroller increases IPC. AMD uses Steamroller's IPC increase to offset the frequency penalty of moving to 28nm SHP. AMD then uses the density advantage to outfit the design with a substantially more complex GPU. In many senses, Kaveri is the embodiment of what AMD has been preaching all along: bringing balance to the CPU/GPU split inside mainstream PCs. The strategy makes a lot of sense if you care about significant generational performance scaling, it's just unfortunate that AMD has to do it with a CPU architecture that puts it at a competitive deficit.
The die of Kaveri is of similar size to Richland (245mm2 vs 236mm2) but has 85% more transistors (2.41B vs. 1.3B). Unfortunately AMD hasn't confirmed whether we are talking about layout or schematic transistors here, or even if both figures are counted the same way, but there's clearly some increase in density. Typically a move from 32nm to 28nm should give a 26% boost for the same area, not an 85% boost.
The GPU side of the equation is moving from a Cayman derived GPU in Richland to a Hawaii / GCN based one in Kaveri with the addition of HSA support. This vertically integrates the GPU stack to GCN, allowing any improvements in software tool production to affect both.
For the first time since AMD went on its march down APU lane, the go-to-market messaging with Kaveri is heavily weighted towards gaming. With Llano and Trinity AMD would try to mask CPU performance difficiencies by blaming benchmarks or claiming that heterogeneous computing was just around the corner. While it still believes in the latter, AMD's Kaveri presentations didn't attempt to force the issue and instead focused heavily on gaming as the killer app for its latest APU. HSA and heterogeneous computing are still important, but today AMD hopes to sell Kaveri largely based on its ability to deliver 1080p gaming in modern titles at 30 fps. Our testing looks favourably on this claim with some titles getting big boosts over similar powered Richland counterparts, although the devil is in the details.
The feature set from Richland to Kaveri gets an update all around as well, with a fixed function TrueAudio DSP on the processor to offload complex audio tasks – AMD claims that reverb added to one audio sample for 3+ seconds can take >10% of one CPU core, so using the TrueAudio system allows game developers to enhance a full surround audio with effects, causing more accurate spatialization when upscaling to 7.1 or downscaling to stereo from 5.1. TrueAudio support unfortunately remains unused at launch, but Kaveri owners will be able to leverage the technology whenever games launch with it. Alongside TrueAudio, both the Unified Video Decoder (UVD) and the Video Coding Engine (VCE) are upgraded.
One of the prominent features of Kaveri we will be looking into is its HSA (Heterogenous System Architecture) – the tight coupling of CPU and GPU, extending all the way down to the programming model. Gone are the days when CPU and GPU cores have to be treated like independent inequals, with tons of data copies back and forth for both types of cores to cooperate on the same problem. With Kaveri, both CPU and GPU are treated as equal class citizens, capable of working on the same data in the same place in memory. It'll be a while before we see software take advantage of Kaveri's architecture, and it's frustrating that the first HSA APU couldn't have come with a different CPU, but make no mistake: this is a very big deal. The big push on AMD’s side is the development of tools for the major languages (OpenCL, Java, C++ and others) as well as libraries for APIs to do this automatically and with fewer lines of code.
Kaveri will support OpenCL 2.0, which should make it the first CPU/APU/SoC to carry that certification.
The Kaveri Lineup: Desktop Sweet Spot at 45W
For years now Intel has been targeting mobile first with its CPU architectures. More recently NVIDIA started doing the same with its GPUs (well, ultra-mobile first). With Haswell, Intel's architecture target shifted from 35 - 45W down to 10 - 20W, effectively making Ultrabook form factors the target for its CPU designs. Intel would then use voltage scaling to move the architecture up/down the stack, with Atom and Quark being used to go down to really low TDPs.
For AMD, Kaveri truly embraces the mobile first approach to design with a platform target of 35W. AMD is aiming higher up the stack than Intel did with Haswell, but it also has a lower end CPU architecture (Jaguar) that shoots a bit above Atom. I suspect eventually AMD will set its big architecture sights below 35W, but for now AMD plays the hand it was dealt. The Kaveri project was started 4 years ago and the Haswell platform retargeting was a mid-design shift (largely encouraged by Apple as far as I can tell), so it's not surprising to see Kaveri end up where it does. It's also worth pointing out that the notebook designs AMD primarily competes in are larger 35W machines anyways.
AMD's mobile roadmap states that we'll see Kaveri go all the way down to 15W (presumably in a 2-core/1-module configuration):
Kaveri mobile however appears to be a mid 2014 affair; what launches today are exclusively desktop parts. With an aggressive focus on power consumption, AMD's messaging around Kaveri is simply more performance at the same power.
Here are the Bulldozer based processors for each of AMD’s main desktop target segments: 45W, 65W and 95-100W:
| AMD 45W Bulldozer Based APUs | ||||
| Trinity | Richland | Kaveri | ||
| Model | - | A8-6500T | A8-6700T | A8-7600 |
| Core Name | - | Richland | Richland | Kaveri |
| Microarch | - | Piledriver | Piledriver | Steamroller |
| Socket | - | FM2 | FM2 | FM2+ |
| Modules/Cores | - | 2/4 | 2/4 | 2/4 |
| CPU Base Freq | - | 2100 | 2500 | 3100 |
| Max Turbo | - | 3100 | 3500 | 3300 |
| TDP | - | 45W | 45W | 45W |
| L1 Cache | - |
128KB I$ 64 KB D$ |
128 KB I$ 64 KB D$ |
192 KB I$ 64 KB D$ |
| L2 Cache | - | 2x2 MB | 2x2 MB | 2x2 MB |
| Graphics | - | HD 8550D | HD 8650D | R7 |
| GPU Cores | - | 256 | 284 | 384 |
| GPU Clock | - | 720 | 720 | 720 |
| Max DDR3 | - | 1866 | 1866 | 2133 |
| Current Price | - | N/A | N/A | $119 |
Actually, the 45W segment is almost a cop out here. AMD never released a 45W desktop edition of Trinity, and while it formally released a couple of 45W Richland APUs back in August, I literally have not seen them for sale in the regular markets (US, UK) that I check. After my initial Kaveri pre-launch information article, one reader got in touch and confirmed that a mid-sized Italian etailer was selling them and had some in stock, but the majority of the world can't seem to get a hold of them. For the purpose of this review, AMD was kind enough to source retail versions of both the A8-6500T and A8-6700T for comparison points to show how much the system has improved at that power bracket.
| AMD 65W Bulldozer Based APUs | ||||||
| Trinity | Richland | Kaveri | ||||
| Model | A6-5400K | A8-5500 | A10-5700 | A8-6500 | A10-6700 | A8-7600 |
| Core Name | Trinity | Trinity | Richland | Richland | Richland | Kaveri |
| Microarch | Piledriver | Piledriver | Piledriver | Piledriver | Piledriver | Steamroller |
| Socket | FM2 | FM2 | FM2 | FM2 | FM2 | FM2+ |
| Modules/Cores | 1/2 | 2/4 | 2/4 | 2/4 | 2/4 | 2/4 |
| CPU Base Freq | 3600 | 3200 | 3400 | 3500 | 3700 | 3300 |
| Max Turbo | 3800 | 3700 | 4000 | 4100 | 4300 | 3800 |
| TDP | 65W | 65W | 65W | 65W | 65W | 65W |
| L1 Cache |
64 KB I$ 32 KB D$ |
128 KB I$ 64 KB D$ |
128 KB I$ 64 KB D$ |
128 KB I$ 64 KB D$ |
128 KB I$ 64 KB D$ |
192 KB I$ 64 KB D$ |
| L2 Cache | 1 MB | 2 x 2 MB | 2 x 2 MB | 2 x 2 MB | 2 x 2 MB | 2x2 MB |
| Graphics | HD 7540D | HD 7560D | HD 7660D | HD 8570D | HD 8670D | R7 |
| GPU Cores | 192 | 256 | 384 | 256 | 384 | 384 |
| GPU Clock | 760 | 760 | 760 | 800 | 844 | 720 |
| Max DDR3 | 1866 | 1866 | 1866 | 1866 | 1866 | 2133 |
| Current Price | $60 | $99 | N/A | $119 | N/A | $119 |
By comparison, AMD has a history of making 65W CPUs. You may notice that the Kaveri model listed is the same model listed in the 45W table. This is one of the features of AMD’s new lineup – various models will have a configurable TDP range, and the A8-7600 will be one of them. By reducing the power by about a third, the user sacrifices a margin of CPU base speed and turbo speed, but no reduction in processor graphics speeds. At this point in time, the A8-7600 (45W/65W) is set for a Q1 release rather than a launch day release, and we have not received details of any further configurable TDP processors.
| AMD 95-100W Bulldozer Based APUs | ||||||
| Trinity | Richland | Kaveri | ||||
| Model | A8-5600K | A10-5800K | A8-6600K | A10-6800K | A10-7700K | A10-7850K |
| Core Name | Trinity | Trinity | Richland | Richland | Kaveri | Kaveri |
| Microarchi | Piledriver | Piledriver | Piledriver | Piledriver | Steamroller | Steamroller |
| Socket | FM2 | FM2 | FM2 | FM2 | FM2+ | FM2+ |
| Modules/Cores | 2/4 | 2/4 | 2/4 | 2/4 | 2/4 | 2/4 |
| CPU Base Freq | 3600 | 3800 | 3900 | 4100 | 3500 | 3700 |
| Max Turbo | 3900 | 4200 | 4200 | 4400 | 3800 | 4000 |
| TDP | 100W | 100W | 100W | 100W | 95W | 95W |
| L1 Cache |
128KB I$ 64KB D$ |
128KB I$ 64KB D$ |
128KB I$ 64KB D$ |
128KB I$ 64KB D$ |
192KB I$ 64KB D$ |
192KB I$ 64KB D$ |
| L2 Cache | 2 x 2 MB | 2 x 2 MB | 2 x 2 MB | 2 x 2 MB | 2 x 2 MB | 2 x 2 MB |
| Graphics | HD 7560D | HD 7660D | HD 8570D | HD 8670D | R7 | R7 |
| GPU Cores | 256 | 384 | 256 | 384 | 384 | 512 |
| GPU Clock | 760 | 800 | 844 | 844 | 720 | 720 |
| Max DDR3 | 1866 | 1866 | 1866 | 2133 | 2133 | 2133 |
| Current Price | $100 | $130 | $120 | $140 | $152 | $173 |
Here we see the 32nm SOI to bulk 28nm SHP shift manifesting itself in terms of max attainable frequency. Whereas the A10-6800K ran at 4.1/4.4GHz, the A10-7850K drops down to 3.7/4.0GHz (base/max turbo). TDP falls a bit as well, but it's very clear that anyone looking for the high end of AMD's CPU offerings to increase in performance won't find it with Kaveri. I suspect we'll eventually see an AMD return to the high-end, but that'll come once we're done with the Bulldozer family. For now, AMD has its sights set on the bulk of the mainstream market - and that's definitely not at 95/100W.
Kaveri Motherboard/Socket Compatibility
AMD’s socket and chipset situation with Kaveri also adjusts slightly, maintaining a small difference to Richland. The new APUs will only fit into an FM2+ socket motherboard, which differs from FM2 by two pins, and Richland/Trinity APUs will also fit into FM2+. However, Kaveri APUs will not fit into any older FM2 motherboards. On the chipset side, AMD is adding the A88X chipset to the Bulldozer chipset family, complementing A55, A75 and A85X. Similar to Trinity and Richland, the chipset is not a definitive indicator of the socket of the motherboard, except for A88X: A88X will only appear on FM2+ motherboards.
AMD has the workings of a potential platform changer, and certainly the programming paradigm change from ‘normal’ to HSA is one that is going to be at the forefront of AMD’s APU production for the foreseeable future.
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eanazag - Wednesday, January 15, 2014 - link
In reference to the no FX versions, I don't think that will change. I think we are stuck with it indefinitely. From the AMD server roadmap and info in this article related to process, I believe that the Warsaw procs will be a die shrink to 12/16 because the GF 28nm process doesn't help clocks. The current clocks on the 12/16 procs already suck so they might stay the same or better because of the TDP reduction at that core count, but it doesn't benefit in the 8 core or less pile driver series. Since AMD has needed to drive CPU clock way higher to compensate for a lack of IPC and the 28 nm process hurts clocks, I am expecting to not see anything for FX at all. Only thing that could change that is if a process at other than GF would make a good fit for a die shrink. I still doubt they will be doing any more changes to the FX series at the high end.So to me, this might force me to consider only Intel for my next build because I am still running discrete GPUs in desktop and I want at least 8 core (AMD equivalent in Intel) performance CPUs in my main system. I will likely go with a #2 Haswell chip. I am not crazy about paying $300 for a CPU, but $200-300 is okay.
I would not be surprised to see an FX system with 2P like the original FX. The server roadmap is showing that. This would essentially be two Kaveri's and maybe crossfire between the two procs. That sounds slightly interesting if I could ratchet up the TDP for the CPU. It does sound like a Bitcoin beast.
britjh22 - Wednesday, January 15, 2014 - link
I think there are some interesting points to be made about Kaveri, but I think the benchmarks really fall short of pointing to some possibly interesting data. Some of the things I got from this:1. The 7850k is too expensive for the performance it currently offers (no proliferation of HSA), and the people comparing it to cheaper CPU/dGPU are correct. However to say Kaveri fails based on that particular price comparison is a failure to see what else is here, and the article does point that out somewhat.
2. The 45W part does seem to be the best spot at the moment for price to performance, possibly indicating that more iGPU resources don't give up much benefit without onboard cache like crystalwell/Iris Pro. However, putting the 4770R in amongst the benches is no super useful due to the price and lack of availability, not to mention it not being socketed.
3. The gaming benchmarks may be the standard for AT, but they really don't do an effective job to either prove or disprove AMD's claims for gaming performance. Plenty of people will (and have looking at the comments) say they have failed at 1080p gaming scores based on 1080p extreme settings. Even some casual experimentation to see what is actually achievable at 1080p would be helpful and informative.
4. I think the main target for these systems isn't really being addressed by the review, which may be difficult to do in a score/objective way, but I think it would be useful. I think of systems like this, and more based off the 65W/45W parts as great mainstream parts. For that price ($100-130ish) you would be looking at an i3 with iGP, or a lower feature pentium part with a low end dGPU. I think at this level you get a lot more from your money with AMD. You have a system which one aspect will not become inadequate before the other (CPU vs GPU), how many relatives do we know where they have an older computer with enough CPU grunt, but not enough GPU grunt. I've seen quite a few where the Intel integrated was just good enough at the time of launch, but a few years down the road would need a dGPU or more major system upgrade. A system with the A8-7600 would be well rounded for a long time, and down the road could add a mid grade dGPU for good gaming performance. I believe it was an article on here that recently showed even just an A8 was quite sufficient for high detail 1080p when paired with a mid to high range card.
5. As was referenced another review and in the comments, a large chunk of steam users are currently being served by iGPU's which are worse then this. These are the people who play MMO's, free to play games, source games, gMod games, DOTA2/LoL, indie games, and things like Hearthstone. For them, and most users that these should be aimed at, the A10-7850K (at current pricing) is not a winner, and they would probably be better (value) or equally (performance) served by the A8-7600. This is a problem with review sites, including AT, which tend to really look at the high end of the market. This is because the readership (myself included) is interested for personal decision making, and the manufacturer's provide these products as, performance wise, they are the most flattering. However, I think some of the most interesting and prolific advances are happening in the middle market. The review does a good job of pointing that out with the performance charts at 45W, however I think some exploration into what was mentioned in point #3 would really help to flesh this out. Anand's evaluation for CPU advances slowing down in his Mac Pro is a great example of this, and really points out how HSA could be a major advancement. I upgraded from a Q6600 to a 3570K, and don't see any reasons coming up to make a change any time soon, CPU's have really become somewhat stagnant at the high end of performance. Hopefully AMD's gains at the 45W level can pan out into some great APU's in laptops for AMD, for all the users for games like the above mentioned.
fteoath64 - Sunday, January 19, 2014 - link
As consumers, our problem with the prices inching upwards in the mid-range is that Intel is not supplying enough models of the i3 range within the price point of AMD APU (mid to highest models). This means the prices are well segmented in the market such that they will not change giving excuse for slight increases as we have seen with Richland parts. It seems like lack of competition in the segment ranges indicate a cartel like behaviour in the x86 market.AMD is providing the best deal in a per transistor basis while consumers expects their cpu performance to ran on par with Intel. That is not going to happen as Intel's gpu inprovement inches closer to AMD. With HSA, the tables have turned for AMD and Intel with Nvidia certain will have to respond some time in the future. This is come when the software changes for HSA makes a significant improvement in overall performance for AMD APUs. We shall see but I am hopeful.
woogitboogity - Wednesday, January 15, 2014 - link
Ah AMD... to think that in the day of thunderbird they were once the under-appreciated underdog where the performance was. The rebel against the P4 and it's unbelievably impractical pipeline architecture.Bottom line is Intel still needs them as anti-trust suit insurance... with this SoC finally getting off the ground is anyone else wondering whether Intel was less aggressive with their own SoC stuff as a "AMD doggy/gimp treat"? Still nice to able to recommend a processor without worrying about the onboard graphics when they are on chip.
Hrel - Wednesday, January 15, 2014 - link
"do any AnandTech readers have an interest in an even higher end APU with substantially more graphics horsepower? Memory bandwidth obviously becomes an issue, but the real question is how valuable an Xbox One/PS4-like APU would be to the community."I think as a low end Steam Box that'd be GREAT! I'm not sure the approach Valve is looking to take with steam boxes, but if there's no "build your own" option then it doesn't make sense to sell it to us. Makes a lot more sense for them to do that and just sell the entire "console" directly to consumers. Or, through a reseller, but then I become concerned with additional markup from middlemen.
tanishalfelven - Wednesday, January 15, 2014 - link
You can install steamos on whatever computer you want... even one you built your self or one you already own. I'd personally think a pc based on something like this processor would be significantly less expensive (i can imagine 300 bucks) and maybe even faster. And more importantly with things like humble bundle it'd be much much cheaper in the games department...tanishalfelven - Wednesday, January 15, 2014 - link
i am wrong on faster than ps4 however, point standsJBVertexx - Wednesday, January 15, 2014 - link
As always, very good writeup, although I must confess that it took me a few attempts to get thru the HSA feel dive! Still, it was a much needed education, so I appreciate that.I have had to digest this, as I was initially really dissappointed at the lack of progress on the CPU front, but after reading through all the writeups I could find, I thinks the real story here is about the A8-7600 and opening up new markets for advanced PC based gaming.
If you think about it, that is where the incentive is for game developers to develop for Mantle. Providing the capability for someone who already has or would purchase an advanced discrete GPU to play with equal performance on an APU provides zero economic incentive for game developers.
However, if AMD can successfully open up as advanced gaming to the mass, low cost PC market, even if that performance is substandard by "enthudiast" standards, then that does provide huge economic incentive for developers, because the cost of entry to play your game has just gone down significantly, potentially opening up a vast new customer base.
With Steam really picking up "steam", with the consoles on PC tech, and with the innovative thinking going on at AMD, I have come around to thinking this is all really good stuff for PC gaming. And it's really the only path to adoption that AMD can take. I for one am hoping they're successful.
captianpicard - Wednesday, January 15, 2014 - link
I doubt Kaveri was ever intended for us, the enthusiast community. The people whom Kaveri was intended for are not the type that would read a dozen CPU/GPU reviews and then log on to newegg to price out an optimal FPS/$ rig. Instead, they would be more inclined to buy reasonably priced prebuilt PCs with the hope that they'd be able to do some light gaming in addition to the primary tasks of web browsing, checking email, watching videos on youtube/netflix, running office, etc.Nothing really up till now has actually fulfilled that niche, and done it well, IMO. Lots of machines from dell, HP, etc. have vast CPU power but horrendous GPU performance. Kaveri offers a balanced solution at an affordable price, in a small footprint. So you could put it into a laptop or a smart tv or all in one pc and be able to get decent gaming performance. Relatively speaking, of course.
izmanq - Wednesday, January 15, 2014 - link
why put i7 4770 with discrete HD 6750 in the integrated GPU performance charts ? :|