Final Words-

Actually, these are not our final words as we have significantly more testing to complete on newly arriving boards with the soon to be introduced SB750 South Bridge. So where do we start? 

Let's see, AMD has introduced a new South Bridge that is certainly an upgrade to the long in the tooth SB600 and also addresses one feature flaw in the SB700.  That feature flaw is RAID 5 and while we are not proponents of host controller RAID 5, early indications is that AMD's implementation is no worse than NVIDIA's or Intel's current solutions.  Marketing can check that one off the feature list now.  However, we are still disappointed in the PCIe 1.1 interface to the 790FX/780G and upcoming new NB chipsets. 

AMD is probably correct that there is plenty of bandwidth available with the current solution, but we cannot help but wonder why they did not include a PCIe 2.0 interface given the amount of time this chipset has been under development.  Also, the lack of a native LAN interface is perplexing, not from a performance viewpoint, but the fact that additional costs are incurred by the motherboard companies and ultimately users for the additional interface components.  For a company that is specializing on reduced cost and highly integrated solutions, this one is perplexing.  However, in the end, the performance of the SB750 rivals that of its competitors at this time, or comes close enough in current testing that we can overlook our.  Speaking of performance, early numbers (just received final chipset drivers and late beta RAID drivers) indicate a slight improvement over SB700 but well within the error of margin in our storage test suite.

Of course, the big news is the new low level interface between the SB750 and the Phenom CPU.  Advanced Clock Calibration is its name and overclocking is its game (a bad throwback to days gone by).   In all seriousness, ACC works and depending on just how "substandard" your Phenom might be at overclocking, it works extremely well.  We have several theories about what this interface does and how AMD is doing it, but without explicit information or conformation from AMD we will have to continue theorizing about it.  Our testing continues for the new product launches next week, but we were satisfied enough with the current numbers to publish early results.  What we are not satisfied with is the lack of information from AMD, but that is their prerogative.

Our test results confirm AMD's statements that a 100MHz to 300MHz improvement in Phenom core speeds are attainable with ACC.  This is not a guarantee and some processors will require significantly more tuning than others to get up to speed, but overall our experiences to date with several processors are very positive.  Our otherwise clock challenged 9850BE suddenly started acting like a Tour de France rider on steroids with ACC enabled.  Our clock improvements ranged from 200MHz to 410MHz depending upon our settings. What was particularly interesting is the fact that our largest improvements occurred when we tried raising HT ref clock and increasing the multiplier at the same time. 

Our 9850BE responded especially well in this case with ACC enabled, so much so that we wondered if maybe our original settings were completely off.  They were not as it turns out after a few hundred reboots between setting changes on several boards. We also found it was much easier to sustain a high NB speed with ACC enabled and this lead to several significant improvements in memory performance.  Finally, we found leaving the program on auto settings provided the quickest and easiest overclock improvements, at least with our processors.  Utilizing AOD was much simpler than making constant changes in the BIOS, but in the end, neither one offered an improvement over the other one in performance. 

We purchased a retail processor that seems to have been blessed by the processor Pope before it left the FAB and arrived in the office.  As such, we only recognized a 100MHz improvement in core speed with ACC enabled on the Foxconn board.  We were able to tune the SB600 equipped ASUS board to the point where the difference was only 50MHz at the top end.  What we did not report on today since we are still verifying the test results, is that ACC did make a significant difference in NB speed with this processor in the midrange clocks from 3GHz to 3.2GHz with NB speeds ranging from 2520 to 2600 at these speeds.  Compared to the Foxconn board with ACC turned off or the ASUS board, our maximum NB speeds hovered around 2200 to 2400 with slightly more CPU and NB Vid required.

AMD informed us that we should be able to run lower voltages and improved HT ref clock speeds with the Phenoms.  We are currently testing these claims but at this point we do see lower voltages being required at a variety of clock speeds but have not noticed any true improvements in HT ref clocks, yet.  As always, your mileage will vary depending upon your CPU and motherboard, but we believe most users will see some improvement, maybe not enough to spend additional money on upgrading the motherboard.  That said, we feel like this technology will benefit the enthusiast and feel like it is probably a safe purchase at this time for those users who have to have the latest and greatest technology.

The complaints about the Phenom processor not clocking as well under Vista 64 when compared to Vista 32 are for the most part true.  We had varying degrees of separation in the final core speed numbers depending upon settings, enough so that we would have to recommend XP Pro or Vista 32 over their 64-bit counterparts for those who need to squeeze the last ounce of performance from their systems.  Once again, the differences varied greatly depending on the motherboard, processor, BIOS settings and if ACC was enabled or not.  While the final system settings under Vista 64 were acceptable to us, we know for many this will not be the case.  We hope to have some answers soon from AMD.

In the end, we know after a good 60 hours of testing, over 600 different settings, 400+ screen shots, and countless reboots that Advanced Clock Calibration works, yet we do not know anymore about the inner-workings of ACC at this point than SpongeBob SquarePants. 

Higher Overclocks in Vista 32-bit vs. 64-bit?
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  • wingless - Wednesday, July 23, 2008 - link

    "In the end, we know after a good 60 hours of testing, over 600 different settings, 400+ screen shots, and countless reboots that Advanced Clock Calibration works, yet we do not know anymore about ACC at this point from AMD than SpongeBob SquarePants."

    AMD does nothing but right their wrongs these days. The SB750 is gonna be big for them. I'm amazed that Anandtech went through so many combinations trying to bring this thing down. They have proven without a doubt that this technology works.

    I also can't wait until next week. They have given us confirmation that 790GX and 790FX boards with SB750 will be coming out NEXT WEEK! Also they keep mentioning some part that they "dare not mention". WTF is that going to be? I thought 790GX+SB750 was going to be the big news. Theres something else? Next week will be exciting for AMD in all the GOOD ways.
  • ZootyGray - Thursday, July 24, 2008 - link

    Yup - I come here to hear about the results of what I call "brutal testing" rather than read somebody's hype or bias or sloppy inconclusive testing. I am still fairly new here but I believe Anandtech is the real thing.
    I want that to be true, esp. after wasting my time at tom's bubblegum guide with there trash bias garbage misleading bullschtein socalled reviews.
    These guys are working hard to get the real goods - and in contact with AMD, delaying reports promised 'tomorrow' - who cares - they are willing to go to amazing lengths to output accurate info after deeper investigation.
    This is no kiddy's website - it's a hard read to get through it; and I know I am not the only one who will reread it to better comprehend what I missed the first time through. This testing is consistent with the articles on 'the 3 amigos' and the one about the recent additions to the AMD line, including the 9950. Take it apart, what makes it squeal.

    Also, it seems there is something different about the 9950, and it's not just an oclok 9850.

    Looking forward to more next week - and the ?? mystery ?? item????
    Big change on the AMD scene - wow.
  • Calin - Thursday, July 24, 2008 - link

    I've quit reading Tom's Hardware long time ago - when I think it was a good site. However, Anandtech was better overall, and one site was enough :)
    As for in depth reviews... this should qualify as an easy reading, look for the technology behind NVidia's 280 and 260 series GPU for a "transistor-oriented" article - that's a hard read indeed
  • Comdrpopnfresh - Wednesday, July 23, 2008 - link

    I am really interested to see how an ASUS or DFI board with the new sb do in overclocking and performance. As mentioned this board is more of a feature-rich pick. And just looking at the charts of ACC off on the foxconn vs the ASUS with sb600, I hope there will be more of an improvement with a fresh sb750 variant.

    Interesting though about the pci-e 1.1 and lan choices by amd. Is it possible having those two remedied would hinder the improvement by ACC?
    Really looking forward to new comparisons to Intel chips with the new change. Hopefully with 45nm parts and ACC, amd can have a good go.

    One thing I would like to know though: What are the specs on the sb750 foxconn vs the asus sb600 in terms of the number of phases in power delivery?
  • Goty - Wednesday, July 23, 2008 - link

    I think that there must be some underlying issue with either the chipset drivers or windows itself when it comes to differing final overclocks, as the CPU shouldn't necessarily be aware of what kind of software its running, other than the fact that a few more registers are being used. IS there any evidence that this is a Phenom-specific issue, or might it affect Athlon64's as well?
  • Locutus465 - Thursday, July 24, 2008 - link

    Quite honestly, either way I would run 64bit over 32bit any day of the week period... I'm sorry but the little bit of extra performance you get OCing really doesn't out weigh the many many advantages 64b vista has over the 32b variant (and over XP). Simply put, 32bit operating systems are all but done in my home... I do run 32bit vista on my laptop but only for the following reasons:

    HP put 32bit on here, and it seems to me all their custom drivers and software (which seem to be required to keep the system from crashing) are all 32bit... so oh well.

    This is a budget laptop to begin with and it maxes out at 2GB RAM... The extra overhead of 64b would just be more of a performance killer than anything else.

    No gaming will be done on this laptop (so no need to worry about future games needing more that 2GB for a process) and I have my desktop at home if I need to manipulate large flat files.

    Now my desktop? Yeah...
    Phenom 9850BE
    4GB OCz DDR2
    Radeon 3870...

    It's getting the 64bit treatment all the way :)
  • CyberHawk - Wednesday, July 23, 2008 - link

    ... boy, I was waiting for this one :D
  • FireTech - Wednesday, July 23, 2008 - link

    So was I ;)
    It leaves me with more questions than answers though. Time to re-read and await further developements/articles.

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