Data Corruption - not Political Corruption - with NVIDIA’s Latest Boards

Our performance board roundups ended up delayed for a variety of reasons, but we will be back on track next week. Every conceivable problem has hit us from shoddy BIOS releases to repeated problems getting Crysis to benchmark correctly under 64-bit Vista. We are still not sure about the latter problem, as one image works and another does not on identical hardware and software setups. We finally got to the point of being able to benchmark, but it is not a process we would wish upon our worst enemies.

However, none of that compares to the data corruption problems we are seeing intermittently on the 790i and 780i platforms. We honestly thought NVIDIA had solved these problems back in 2006 on the 680i platform. Since the MCP has not changed, it is disconcerting to us that this problem seems to be rearing its ugly head again. This time, the data corruption problems appear contained to memory overclocking, especially on the 790i boards. We are not talking massive overclocks here, but apparently hitting the right combination of FSB rates around 400 and memory speeds above DDR3-1600 seem to trigger our problems. Also, we have been able to reach higher DDR3 speeds with absolute stability on the 790i than on the X48 during extreme overclocking, so this problem is even more perplexing to us.

On the 780i boards, the magical combination is right above 400MHz FSB (1600 QDR) and memory unlinked anywhere from DDR2-900~1200. Our 780i problems have been minor for the most part, but the underlying problem is that after the systems recover from a BSOD, we typically have stability problems or gremlin behaviors until we reload the system. This same problem can occur on Intel or AMD chipset boards, but it is extremely rare in our experiences to date unless we absolutely pushed the memory beyond reasonable settings.


Back to the 790i boards; the data corruption problems have occurred more frequently as the boards (and their early BIOS revisions) seem more susceptible to faulty behavior when pushing the memory above DDR3-1600 with low latencies. We have not nailed downed exact settings at this point, as they tend to fluctuate between test sessions and boards. What we do know is that we are tired of constantly reloading our images after making minor changes to our settings.

It is possibly coincidence only, but over the past couple of months we have lost two WD Raptors, a couple of Samsung 500GB drives, and a WD 250GB drive while benchmarking the 790/780i boards. It may have just been time for these drives to meet their maker, as our particular samples have spent significant time running benchmarks almost 24/7 over the past year or so (it might not sound like a long time, but we totally abuse the drives to some degree when testing in this manner). We have certainly had hard drive failures when testing other chipsets, ranging from complete mechanical breakdowns to index tables being so corrupted that we could not fully recover the disk. It could just be bad luck on our part.

However, we think it goes deeper than that. After the first roundups this coming week, we plan to delve into it. The reason is that we have not had any data corruption problems testing our 650i/750i, GeForce 6100/6150, or GeForce 7050 boards, none of which utilize the MCP in the 680/780/790i boards.  Of course, this could be tied to the fact that we do not push the boards as hard, but knowing about the previous 680i problems makes us think the current BIOS code or Vista drivers need to be revised again.

Other problems

We share test notes on an almost continual basis with each other when testing boards. We thought some of the test notes from our upcoming roundup would be interesting. In all fairness to NVIDIA, we are including our X48 thoughts as we wrap up testing.

790i test notes:

a) CPU multiplier likes to changes at will, causing an inability to POST after changing BIOS options. (Problem is likely linked to bad NVIDIA base code).

b) Poor memory read performance above 475FSB unless you enable “P1” and “P2” which NVIDIA refuses to document operation of or provide information about.

c) EVGA/XFX (NVIDIA reference design) lacks support for tRFC tuning - high density DDR3 configurations often refuse to work unless the module SPDs are tuned from the manufacturer. (This makes them needlessly slow in low-density configurations.)

d) The chipset does not do a very good job of balancing read vs. write priorities with respect to memory access - copy scores lower than X38/X48.

e) Regardless of what NVIDIA says, we think PCI-E 2.0 (and 1.x) implementation is still better on Intel’s Express chipsets - give us SLI on Intel to prove it!!!

f) Possible problem with NVIDIA reference design: sustained overclocked operation at >~1.9V for VDIMM may cause critical failure of 790i (Ultra) SPP. This does not seem to affect ASUS S2E design and is the most critical issue facing the board; we need to verify before making recommendations.

g) Possible HDD corruption issues. (We lost the two 74GB WD Raptors so far…)

X48 test notes:

a) Chipset defaults to tRD values that are excessively loose and are not competitive with NVIDIA’s new 790i. The problem is most MB manufacturers do not allow this to be specifically tuned in the BIOS.

b) DMI interface (x4 PCI-E link) is sloooow….X38/X48 should have been paired with ICH10(R), which will be PCI-E 2.0 compliant on the link interface.

c) Haven’t found an Intel X48 board yet that will handle 8GB of DDR3 properly, even though this is a major bullet for chipset support - board or memory makers? (We need to test this on the Intel DX48BT2 that just arrived.)

d) Chipset runs HOT…might even be hotter than 790i. Intel should have shrunk this thing long ago!

That is it for now and we will have additional information in the first roundup. Now a take on Gigabyte.

Pop goes the MOSFET Walking the Plank with Gigabyte...
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  • whatthehey - Sunday, April 6, 2008 - link

    Hard drives and GPUs and fans have nothing to do with the failures; it's all about overloading the CPU socket power distribution system. Considering Anandtech explicitly mentions the X2 6400+ and the Phenom X4 9900/9850BE, you might be safe. In fact, Mr. Key says something about the Gigabyte board working fine at stock settings with the 9900/9850BE, and it was only "after a short overclocking session" that the board failed.

    That's pretty critical information for enthusiasts to have. Okay, the board works at stock. +1 to Gigabyte. Even moderate attempts at overclocking on quad-core CPUs could fry the board. -1. That's still better than the other offerings, and I think it's safe to say an X2 6000+ won't stress things as much as the 9850BE. You're probably safe, but don't push things too much unless you don't mind the risk of a dead board.

    Or you could try to verify the problem by, say, overclocking and over-volting your CPU a bit. Heh.
    Reply
  • building - Sunday, April 6, 2008 - link

    Here I am again, a day late and a dollar short.
    I ordered the EVGA 790i Ultra board 3 days ago. Along with it a raptor 150 and an XFX 9800GX2, and I WAS planning to run vista 64 on it. Thanks for the good honest info in the article. Now I'm wondering if I should just RMA the EVGA board, and stick with th ASUS 680 I'm currently using. My main reasons for upgrading to the 790 were DDR3, and PCI-E 2.0, but if I can run that video card on a PCI-E 1 slot then maybe I'll just stick with the ASUS. DAMN IT!
    Good article though, thanks.
    Reply
  • n7 - Sunday, April 6, 2008 - link

    This article is exactly the sort of honesty i like to see.

    Over the years, i've become less & less reliant on official reviews, because all too often they skip mentioning the issues (if they even keep eyes open for them at all) & just focus on the postives.

    Going into forums to read user experiences tends to be a more reliable way of gathering information these days i find.

    But with you Gary, you make an effort to always paint the whole picture, regardless of how ugly that can be.

    Again, want to say a big thanx for this.
    I've always loved your reviews; & this is such a shining example of why!
    Reply
  • just4U - Sunday, April 6, 2008 - link

    Looking at this article I keep thinking to myself ... DAMN. I'd go out and pick up a Matx motherboard (if I was so inclined) and pair it up with a powerful cpu in a heartbeat. Never realizing that perhaps I shouldn't do that. It never would occur to me and I'd be surprised as hell when it popped.
    Reply
  • Killrose - Sunday, April 6, 2008 - link

    So what is going to happen to my 690G chipset based AM2 Gigabyte board when I drop a Phenom into it? Reply
  • TrueSport - Sunday, April 6, 2008 - link

    at least 4 problems I've experienced with the GA-MA78GM-S2H so far!! :

    1.) Badly attached Northbridge heatsink, overheated and either system reboot automatically or blue screen. DIY a heatsink solved the problem;

    2.) Blue screen OR immediate system reboot when I played movies with PowerDVD v7.3;

    3.) Incompatible with the Lite-on drive, LOL!!?, system reboot and reboot when accessing data from it, changed back to the old DVD drive and the problem gone;

    4.) not working with the ADATA DDR2 800 memory, maybe it's ADATA's problem.

    only problem (4) was solved by BIOS update.
    Reply
  • Ages - Sunday, April 6, 2008 - link

    Trust & Integrity are two cornerstones that will be found supporting any successful business. At least any successful business that lasts the test of time. If you take away either of the two the business fails.

    Annandtech has taken a courageous step forward by revealing what is going on behind the scenes. Again they have shown that the "End User" matters most. I sincerely thank you for standing up and telling the truth.

    It will be interesting to see if these companies have the integrity to do what is right.
    Reply
  • TrueSport - Sunday, April 6, 2008 - link

    Well done anandtech!

    So glad to see you guys speaking up for the truths!

    Forever supporting anandtech, especially for Gary Key!
    Reply
  • TrueSport - Sunday, April 6, 2008 - link

    Well done anantech!

    So glad to see you guys speaking up for the truths!

    Forever supporting anandtech, especially for Gary Key!
    Reply
  • R3MF - Sunday, April 6, 2008 - link

    who is going to provide the mATX crowd with a decent high-end Phenom motherboard?

    the whole situation is a disgrace, and i would not recommend AMD to any mATX'er until they sort it out.
    Reply

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