Hygon be Bygon

Every processor made in the US has to be of a certain performance level in order to be deemed suitable for export. Companies have pages and pages of documents relating to the performance of their hardware as determined by the metrics that govern the laws in the USA. These metrics include raw processing power, measured in gigaflops (GFLOPs), adjusted peak performance (APP), and/or the composite theoretical performance (CTP). Depending on which territory you export to, one or more of these metrics may apply.

One way around this, if you cannot import the CPU, is to have a license to build it. But more than that, if you can adjust the license and have a custom input into the design, you can relabel the hardware as a homespun device and be somewhat within the realms of plausibility. This is how one of AMD’s core designs, with modifications, has made it into a ‘Chinese’ x86 CPU for the Chinese market. The big plus on the packaging isn’t so much that it avoids import issues, but the ‘中国’ label that comes attached. Then again, one assumes that the people using these CPUs don’t exactly have a choice in what they can buy.

We discovered that these processors have been changed from the Zen 1 design in a number of ways. To say they are carbon copies of the Zen 1 SoCs, which is what a lot of people have suspected, is not true – enough has changed in the design to say that these parts are rebalanced, mostly for worse performance than their Zen 1 counterparts. The integer performance is essentially identical, however the floating point performance has been reduced – common instructions having half the throughput, and random number generation has been adjusted to be both slow and produce lower quality random numbers. The cryptography engines have also been replaced, such that common AES instructions are no longer accelerated but others more specific to the Chinese security, such as SM2, SM3, and SM4, are now included. In our testing, despite the processors showing AVX/AVX2 support when probed, it appeared to be disabled. We suspect this to be more of a firmware bug than a limitation of the Hygon CPU.

The method by which AMD was able to get an edited version of its first generation Zen core design into a ‘Chinese’ designed x86 CPU is highly convoluted. By first creating a joint venture with other Chinese companies called THATIC, then by forming two companies called HMC and Hygon each owned in different amounts between AMD and THATIC, how each business was able to discuss and control parts of the IP was sculpted in order to keep the secret sauce still in AMD’s hands, but allow the Chinese side of the ventures to request modifications. Those requests have to then be approved, and then HMC commissions the chips from GlobalFoundries, while Hygon packages them and sells them to companies like Sugon. We go into detail on this in our overview back on the first page, but suffice to say trying to follow where all the pieces are is almost like playing a game of Risk blindfolded.

With AMD unwilling to discuss on the record any of the finer details of the arrangement or changes to the processors, when asked if they could disclose how the processors were changed, we were told ‘if you find anything out, we may confirm it’. The one time I was able to see a Hygon Dhyana processor was due to a miscommunication with one of the Hygon vendors at Computex, and the person who let me take pictures suddenly stopped communicating with me after the event (I presume to keep his job). It still took over a year from those discussions to get hold of the chips for testing, and only then we were able to obtain the chips due to the current US Entity List ban covering one of the joint venture companies. This essentially killed the project dead, and caused one of the US subsidiaries to be mothballed, allowing some parts to leak onto the market where they had once been meticulously controlled.

Overall these Hygon CPUs offered China an alternative to the Intel market, and arguably something faster than they might have been able to purchase through import restrictions. AMD made some money at a time it badly needed it, but with the success of its Zen 2 platform, I don’t foresee AMD needing to do something similar over the next decade. The nature of the agreement between AMD, its joint venture THATIC, and the joint companies, was only for a single core design, Zen 1, and not Zen 2, limiting its competitiveness. Moreover, the US Entity List ban on one of the joint venture companies, for all intents and purposes, has made the project dead. The Chinese Hygon Dhyana x86 processors will still be in use by governments and other such organizations for a number of years to come, but this is bound to end up one of the oddest annals of the history of semiconductors.

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  • s.yu - Tuesday, March 3, 2020 - link

    It says 2.40 ounces, that's the shipping weight but for something seemingly the size of a thumbnail I don't think it needs to be 2.4 ounces, not even with packaging.

    This 6 count battery bundle seems to have a shipping weight of 0.8 ounce.
    https://www.amazon.com/Energizer-2032-BP-6-6-pack/...
  • Shadow7037932 - Sunday, March 8, 2020 - link

    If you look at the datasheet, this CPLD doesn't need RAM backup. It's using Non volatile flash to store the config.
  • Shadow7037932 - Sunday, March 8, 2020 - link

    People in Asia/S.E. Area are using devices with HiSilicon Kirin SoCs, so I doubt they'll have issues exporting it.
  • Soppro - Sunday, March 1, 2020 - link

    This is very possible. China has done this in a variety of other areas such as high speed rail, mass transit and aircraft design/manufacturing, letting foreign companies to bid to gain access to the Chinese market and taking their proprietary technology in the process (foreign companies must partner with a Chinese counterpart). Case in point, Chinese HSR train sets have now improved to the point that they supersede the Japanese designs they were originally based on.
  • khanikun - Monday, March 2, 2020 - link

    That's how many countries do things. S.Korea's high speed trains originated from the French. Russia's high speed trains originated from the Germans. China's high speed trains originated from the Japanese, French, and Germans. You build upon what you learned and if they didn't want to make a new rival, they shouldn't have trained them on how to build high speed trains, just so they could try to gain a new market share.

    I say just sell at a high price, to make up for these future losses, if you want to sell to China or ignore the market. Course that could also just wind up with the Chinese trying to steal your tech via hacking or whatever else.
  • evernessince - Thursday, February 27, 2020 - link

    Licensed, not sold.
  • SSNSeawolf - Thursday, February 27, 2020 - link

    This is the most excited I've ever gotten about someone violating import restrictions. There's a lot of strange stuff to parse through here.

    1.) I'd be interested to see where the second battery's traces lead; that should help solve the mystery.
    2.) I'd like to see Linux booted up and have a look at lscpu. That will probably be more helpful than CPU-Z for these chips.
    3.) The Intel cooler thing is just bizarre. The cooler IP must not have been licensed, which is also an interesting nugget.
    4.) I'd be very interested in having someone take a hard look at the chipset FPGA.
    5.) Tangential, but I wonder if the BMC has been modified in any way.
  • Kevin G - Thursday, February 27, 2020 - link

    The Intel cooler is indeed odd but it isn't unique. There is an AM4 with Intel LGA115x mounts: the Asrock X570 Phantom Gaming-ITX/TB3 is one such board.

    I'll second the need to dig into the FGPA. If there is any major truth to what the tin-foil hatters are saying, that is the prime location to put a backdoor since that is reprogrammable. Outside of that, it does appear the consumer board has a SD card slot and a USB 3.0 header silk screened. I wonder if they were soldered on if they'd be active in any sort of capacity or if they're disabled out of necessity by not having enough resources on the FPGA.

    I'll second that BMC differences would just be interesting.
  • Slash3 - Thursday, February 27, 2020 - link

    I'm a bit surprised that the cooler mount even elicited as much as a raised eyebrow from Ian, as it's definitely been done before to utilize the smaller dimensions. Some things really are as obvious as they seem, and nothing more.
  • myself248 - Wednesday, March 18, 2020 - link

    Is that a microSD slot? I was thinking it might be a SIM slot. Either way, super interesting, and I would love to see that FPGA bitstream analyzed. There are folks who can make some sense of such things, I am not one of them.

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