Conclusion

With these pieces I wanted to see what’s possible with the Exynos 9810. There’s definitely still room for improvement; I’m still sure a properly tuned WALT configuration like on the Snapdragon 845 S9 or the Pixel 2 would further improve the performance or battery life of the Exynos S9. I didn’t want to go down that rabbit hole for a custom kernel, for now the improved PELT changes are just as good as it reasonably gets.

One thing I did discover is the performance discrepancy between the M3 and Kryo 385 when it comes to synthetic benchmarks versus some of the web benchmarks. While 1794 MHz is enough to match the A75-based CPU cores of the Snapdragon in GeekBench or SPEC, I wasn’t able to match the higher performance in the web benchmarks unless I raised the clocks to around 2.3GHZ. I can now dismiss software as being the main culprit here, and instead there’s more fingers pointing at the micro-architecture of the M3. This has some relatively big repercussions as it begs the question of what kind of workload is actually more representative of overall Android smartphone use-cases.

The above graphic is my best guess on what the performance/power curves look like. These are based on scheduler cost tables, voltage curves and correlations to actual measured power on certain points. The big question here is what is the actual representative positioning between the two architectures in terms of performance? As we saw in part 1, the M3 can win on average in workloads such as SPEC at the same performance points as the S845. However to reach the higher performance of the 845 in web workloads we need to raise the clocks, and this of course would shift the efficiency curves around with a much bigger favour towards the Arm cores. The average is probably somewhere in-between, and Arm and Samsung hopefully have a more complete view in terms of workload characterization.

What is indisputable is that the M3 lags behind in the lower frequency states. Here, Samsung’s cores just stop scaling further down in voltage after 1170MHz, while the Snapdragon and Arm cores' power curves are just a lot steeper. Again the absolute difference is arguable depending on workloads, be it 25% or 100%. Unfortunately at this point we’re talking about insurmountable physics and there’s just no software optimisation which will overcome this.

In the end the Exynos S9 was hampered on two fronts: one being just a very unoptimised BSP (Board support package; kernel, drivers, etc) by S.LSI (With the Mobile Division also possibly being a factor), particularly the seemingly senseless chasing of higher synthetic benchmarks scores such as GeekBench. which in turn backfired very badly in any real-world workloads. Qualcomm provided Samsung with an excellent baseline BSP on the S845 S9’s – so for S.LSI not being able to do the same is just unfortunate.  The other front where the Exynos S9 was hampered was that the M3 just seems oversized and power hungry, and it can’t sufficiently act as the efficient workhorse for general workloads. Compounding problems, this comes at a cost of battery life. Here there’s just a lot more to be done to fix the efficiency and the performance discrepancy relative to Arm’s cores.

Performance & Battery Results
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  • jjj - Friday, April 20, 2018 - link

    Yet to finish reading but for clarity. the memory controller is at half speed only in the Samsung power saving mode and not with your custom configs?

    PC Mark clearly does not depend on core perf much and maybe that's what's confusing. It's seen as mostly a CPU benchmark with GPU in photo editing.
    And you are kidding about a robotic arm but you only need a moving fingertip with a sensor for the most basic testing and that's easily doable in days. I know Sparkfun has a 40$ IR sensor for robotic fingers but you can go with other sensors too. There are dedicated robots but , to pivot a bit to a slightly different topic, you could test app load times with a high speed phone camera and we would be happy. Wish you guys did that, test load times better than the folks on Youtube - so the bar is very low right now.
  • Andrei Frumusanu - Friday, April 20, 2018 - link

    The memory controller isn't limited in the custom config.
  • jjj - Friday, April 20, 2018 - link

    Is it possible to disable 1-2 big cores and run config 3, maybe with more aggressive settings?
    And why blame the M3 core for web perf and not everything else that might add latency?

    Anyway, this core feels like it was aimed at 7nm and it has potential if they improve on it.
  • ZolaIII - Friday, April 20, 2018 - link

    I still say old logic is much more superior (HMP, interactive & core_ctl). Windows load tracking isn't something new it just whose not used much in HMP. EAS is just a big miss. Also seems that 2GHz remains sane limit for sustainable leaking.
  • serendip - Friday, April 20, 2018 - link

    Makes me wonder if this Exynos chip would be better as a midranger like the SD650, with the A55s doing most of the work and the M3 cores running in short bursts. A cut-down M3 with a lower frequency limit could work better; at 2 GHz+ the M3 seems to guzzle power for not much of a performance increase.

    What kind of magic sauce did Qualcomm use in the SD845 S9 to get 11 hours of battery life vs 7 on the Exynos S9? I'm getting 11 hours on a Mi Max with a much larger battery so any further tweaks would be welcome.
  • ZolaIII - Saturday, April 21, 2018 - link

    You are getting 11h SOT in real life usage on an old phone with worn out or at least started to get worn out battery. S9 US version ain't getting 11h of SOT, it's getting 7, 8 at best. Equnos is getting 4 to 6. Check out on XDA. The S710 will be cut down version of S845 & 2GHz is limit for 10 nm second Samsung FinFET, check the graph S845 is even more leaking than Equnos when it's crossed.
  • dave_the_nerd - Friday, April 20, 2018 - link

    What's with the splash image of Spock messing with a chainsaw?
  • Ryan Smith - Friday, April 20, 2018 - link

    Part 1 was Spock with a screwdriver. This round of testing was much more extreme, so we had to use a more powerful tool.
  • SirCanealot - Friday, April 20, 2018 - link

    I just noticed the tool! Oh my, I just cracked up! Thanks for the article and the laugh!! :D
    Ps, Andrei, I love you. (ie, thanks)
  • Hifihedgehog - Friday, April 20, 2018 - link

    Quite the upgrade from stone knives and bear skins!

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