Thanks for reciting what I have been saying all along, at least it is smarter than pumping AMD's phenom junk.

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Do you honestly believe that we would be able to build a 8-core workstation for under $1,000 if it wasn't for AMD's competitive products?

I for one find it hard to believe.

AMD Phenom II is a fine product. Easily competitive with Core2.

Complain all you like that it isn't competitive clock for clock, and it isn't competitive with i7.

Facts remain that AMD isn't "junk", merely of perceived lesser quality or value.

If I wanted to build an 8-core workstation I would without a doubt pick Intel.

If I needed 2-4 cores AMD would be at the fore-front of my choices. At least until i5 comes along. I usually spend from $250-500 on a build or upgrade, so I am waiting on an RMA to build an e5200 system that will run a little faster than 3.3 ghz. But this build would be around $150-200 ($60 chip, $40 mobo). If I had the extra $100 I would probably have built a Phenom II x3.

Intel doesn't have a lot of compelling products in that price range, they need to get the old 775 stocks sold and release i5 so that there is a reason to go back to them.

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There is always a pretty word and an ugly word for the same thing.

Junk is the ugly word. "merely of perceived lesser quality or value" are pretty marketing words. Both mean that Phenoms are shitty, now that is the reality.

At every price level, I can name a system from Intel that will handly beat any AMD offering

Athlon X2 @65W? Get Atom 330.(this little dual core 1.6Ghz HT enabled chip is only 8W and costs only 80 dollars with the motherboard) Or Get E5200, E5300.

Phenom x3 at 95W? Priced 100-130. Get The Q8200 from Microcenter. Get an extra core for free

Phenom X4 at $180-$200. Have mac and cheese for dinner and get the i7 920 for $230 from microcenter.

Pro people should be looking at Asus Z8NA-D6C with Dual E5504s or Dual E5520s. E5504s will kick the crap out of any Shanghai, while the E5520s will kick the crap out of Istanbuls when they release it.

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You're so full of shit it's pathetic. "Junk" and "perceived lesser quality" are not synonyms, unless you're a tool that buys into perceptions. In testing, the X2 7850 trades blows with the E5300 and is the clear winner in gaming. Don't even get me started on Atom. That's a slow piece of crap processor that's only fit for use in MIDs and netbooks - neither of which I would ever want to use. Welcome back to performance circa 1999, all thanks to the "wonderful" Atom.

Microcenter prices.... you mean like these?? Gee, I don't see Q8200 or Core i7 available there. Perhaps local stores have the chips in stock at lower prices, but that only works for the minority that have access to a store. WTF are you, a Microcenter employee? This is about the fifth time I've seen you fanboying for them! It's all Intel, all the time for tshen83 - and even better is Intel and Microcenter rolled into one!

Intel's 775 platform is aging now and not worth buying into unless you get a great deal. (Actually, AM2/AM2+ is in the same boat.) The problem is, socket 1366 is way too expensive for all but the most diehard users. $230 for the Core i7 920 would be a great price, true, but then it's more like $280 for the retail CPU, and then you need to factor in higher motherboard and slightly higher RAM costs. (OEM CPUs for $265 will end up costing more once you add in a heatsink.)

DDR2-800 goes for $23 per 2GB DIMM, whereas DDR3 starts at $32 for 2GB DDR3-1333. If you use AM3, then it's a wash, but DDR3 isn't significantly "better" than DDR2; it's just newer and a little faster. It makes more of a difference on laptops where the lower voltage is helpful. Power consumption on desktops isn't a big concern, unless it's more than a 50W difference. 50W running 24/7 for a whole year will cost you about $40, in case you're wondering, so if you only run your PC in the day like most people you're at $20 per year. If $20 a year is important to you, you shouldn't be looking at a new PC right now.

Motherboards for AM2+start at $80 for decent models, or $125 for AM3. Your precious Core i7 starts at a whopping $180, and if you skip the Foxconn and ECS stuff and go for a nicer brand like MSI, Gigabyte or ASUS you're looking at $200 or more. Core 2 stuff is competitive with AMD, though, with a lot of good P45 boards for $100-$150. Then again, you could get an SLI and CF compatible board with Core i7, and that's worth something... but with 4870X2 and GTX 295 it's not a big deal.

FWIW, I don't even run any Phenom systems right now (just sold my last one a couple weeks ago). I also don't run any Core i7 stuff, because it's too expensive. I'm running overclocked Core 2 Quad and Duo CPUs, except for an old socket 939 system with a single core CPU. My kid doesn't know the difference, though. The only time I ever notice a difference between Core 2 Duo or Quad is in video encoding or 3D rendering, neither of which I do that much. Pimping i7 as something people "need" when most can't even tax a dual-core Athlon X2 is retarded. That's "reality", and the only "shitty reality" is your posts, which reek of guerrilla marketing techniques.

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Just so that you know, I am not afraid to swing back at you. You are like Johan"My Head is in AMD's Ass" whatever his last Dela Gas dude's minime.

Nobody in the professional world gives a shit about gaming performance where it is GPU bound. Just because I mention Microcenter doesn't mean I work for them. Gary Key has mentioned a lot of newegg deals, does that mean he works for newegg?

BTW, I don't work for Intel if your sorry ass brain hasn't figured out yet, so stop bitching and accusing me of any retarded marketing. Core i7 is only too expensive for fucking poor ass fuckers like you. Some people can actually afford to spend 30 dollars more on a CPU.

In the end, you buy the shit you want and I will buy the stuff I want. Technically I don't really give a shit what you AMD idiots do. In the end you just pay more for your power bills for a slower CPU, which is not my problem.

So go fuck yourself and go back to your Arab hole.

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This is probably the worst untruthful, offensive, extremely arrogant, false shit given out by an Intel fanboy I've ever seen.

Phenom II is a great processor for its price range. $190 for a Phenom II 940 that beats most Core 2s at that range is pretty amazing. you can't compare i7 to Phenom II, it's a different price range entirely.




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Don't feed the trolls!

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...and in the end few ppl give a crap about what you like.

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Atom 330 is not my first choice. Athlon x2 is available in 35w (but that doesn't stop me from undervolting and using less).

Atom 330 is not a powerhouse chip. If you had said Conroe-L core @ 1.2Ghz I probably would have agreed. Although I have just built 2 systems on a Turion 64 ML-30 ($5 apiece on eBay, so I picked up 2). I am pretty sure it can whup an Atom 330, but it might be a close race against a Intel D201GLY2 Conroe-L.

Then of course there is the GeodeNX, which was $125 for a Jetway embedded board back when Via ITX boards were still $300. It is a full on Athlon that can use 14watts.

If you had bothered to read my post you would have seen I did buy an e5200.

I am not sure I get your point. Something is "shitty" because other things kick shit out of it? While they cost more?

I am sorry it comes down to petty name-calling. There is no reason to complain about a fair market value from a competing product line.

I always try to choose the best processor for the job, whether that is AMD or Intel.

I build PC's for many purposes, quiet, ITX mini PC's, Servers, Firewalls, Media extenders, browsing, emulation.

Some just for the bare minimum with single functionality and price in mind.

"Pro people" shouldn't need to be told what they are looking for, they know already. And the products you banished wouldn't exist if there wasn't a market for them. They fulfill somebody's idea of the right price and features for a certain task. (even if you personally don't have the same needs as them it doesn't make their choices or opinions any less valid.)

If you want to talk about wrong, look at people choosing P4 D 3.4ghz processors over a Conroe-L 2.0ghz Celeron 440, even though the 440 can do 3.4ghz, and spank the P4 D even at stock clocks. All while using half the energy.

Or people still on A64 Black editions 90nm process, by choice.

Also some platforms and form factors are available only on certain processors, and for uses where the fastest or most efficient (by piddly 3-10 watt differences) processor isn't even important.

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I assume that overclocking is not supported on this board. Twin xeons at 4ghz would be a beautiful thing.

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That layout is an abortion. They ought to be ashamed of themselves.

ASUS really ought to stick to selling junk to spoiled children who think Quadro cards are worthless because of their Crysis FPS benchmarks.

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This is a workstation board. Plus, to run the memory controller at full speed 1333Mhz, you can only use 1 DIMM per channel anyway. 1DIMM per channel also helps overclocking and reduces the memory circuitry complexity and cost(6 DIMM per socket designs require the motherboard to handle 24 ranks of memory for a 6x quad rank configuration) 3DIMM design only gives 12 ranks, which is enough for most people. You can't tell me that 24GB of ram(6x 4GB) isn't enough for workstation load?

It is overall a superb design for the price.

BTW, the kind of spoiled children who think Quadro cards are worthless because of their Crysis FPS benchmarks are the ones who are happily typing on a Phenom II computer. SARCASM.


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This is a SERVER board geniuses.

They were able to cram 2 of the biggest, hottest and fastest processors on the planet, along with 6 DIMMs and 5 expansion slots all into an ATX form factor. This is nothing short of miraculous.

Go compare it to most of the X58 boards that only have 1 processor to contend with and you might see that this is a pretty good design.

The x16 slot gives you a video upgrade option over the onboard.
2 x x8 Slots for I/O Cards (RAID, etc)
1 PCI Slot for backwards compatibility with old stuff and an optional Audio Card.

This means you can use this machine as a File Server, Web Server, Citrix/Terminal Server, Low end CAD Station and even a content creation / Video Editing machine.

Pretty flexible machine if you ask me.

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>>This means you can use this machine as a File Server,
>>Web Server, Citrix/Terminal Server, Low end CAD Station
>>and even a content creation / Video Editing machine.
And paired with a GTX295 even some gaming ;-))


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Been looking closely at this for a couple weeks now vs. a Core i7 system...

The premium for the Z8NA-D6C and a single E5520 vs. a Core i7 920 system is ~$125-200. Granted the E5520 is a bit slower than the 920, and some of the i7 mobo's have other features.

But what the i7 system won't allow you to do is in a few months when E5520's are cheaper (or when you need or can justify it), pop in another CPU (and more memory of course).

The biggest cost constraint with that today is memory, as 4GB sticks are still very expensive. With 2GB sticks the initial single-CPU config is to limited to 6GB (3 slots), whereas most of the i7 mobos provide 6 slots so getting to 12GB is reasonably cheap.

So if you can get by with 6GB, the Z8NA-D6C + E5520 is a very attractive alternative to an i7 system, even if today you only use one of the CPU sockets.

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OK, so the layout is pretty average, but for the price the feature set is pretty good.

But ASUS workstation/server boards have a horrible reputation for being buggy (both hardware and BIOS), poorly built, and poorly supported (clueless support drones and BIOS bugs rarely fixed). The last 3 boards that I've bought all had major issues (like bandwidth to the PCI-X slots being in the order of 30 MB/sec) and were replaced at least once during their lifetime due to component failure (and don't get me started on the nightmare that is trying to get ASUS to replace a board).

If it was Tyan, Supermicro, or Intel I'd have no problem buying it ... but with ASUS, at the very least I'd wait a few months after release to get an idea of what's actually working.

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This is a bargain for someone who needs a workstation or a server. For a dual-socket board, the price is simply incredible. It looks good, too.

But for me, this only begs the question: Why is desktop X58 board is so expensive, when a dual-socket board with the same NB/SB can be offered for $250? Why does a $300 desktop board come with Realtek NICs, when they can make a dual-socket board with two Intel 82574 NICs?

Things like this is what brings distrust to educated consumers. Because the only reasons I can think of for such a discrepancy are non-technical ones.

But whatever. People who are looking to build/upgrade their servers must be very happy. Heck, maybe I'd buy one for a desktop (with a single CPU) if I needed to upgrade.

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This board has much simpler power circuitry than most X58 desktop boards, has fewer back panel ports, and lacks: supplemental storage controllers, firewire, and integrated audio.

This board is extremely minimalist; whereas, $300+ desktop X58 boards are over-engineered to support overclocking, and heavily loaded with features and supplemental controllers. While the supplemental controllers are cheap, they complicate board layout which makes design and possibly manufacturing more expensive (the additional circuit traces may require more board layers). The over engineering to support overclocking is probably the most expensive difference between this board and mid to high end desktop X58 boards. The defeatured low end X58 boards most comparable to this board cost about $200.

Furthermore, ASUS are relatively unknown in the server motherboard market (compared to say Tyan and Supermicro), so they pretty much have to cut profit margins and undercut their competitors prices to break into the server market.

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I think this might be a very good successor to the skulltrail line. Would love a review on anandtech to see if it is any good and whether you can use it to OC a couple of E5520's and get a very CPU rich workstation!

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Add this card to that motherboard...

http://pcreviewer.org/bfg-nvidia-geforc...2-1gb-gddr3-pci-express-graphics-card/

and you got a beast

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9800 GX2 is old generation. The GTX295 also has two GPUs and is way faster. So add a GTX295 and you have a beast ;-))

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add that with a 9800 gx2, and you got a decent build

http://pcreviewer.org/bfg-nvidia-geforc...2-1gb-gddr3-pci-express-graphics-card/


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lol nevermind, forgot i replied in this thread already...

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