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  • auralcircuitry - Wednesday, May 13, 2015 - link

    How does this color definition differ (if at all) from the Dolby Vision spec? If TVs start to incorporate one or the other will it matter?
  • Brandon Chester - Wednesday, May 13, 2015 - link

    Dolby Vision uses Rec. 2020 so it shouldn't matter what it's branded as. Reply
  • dragonsqrrl - Wednesday, May 13, 2015 - link

    66GB discs? I'm guessing that's the dual layer version of BDXL? Reply
  • Ryan Smith - Wednesday, May 13, 2015 - link

    Correct. 2 layers for 66GB, 3 layers for 100GB. Reply
  • chucky2 - Wednesday, May 13, 2015 - link

    So has it actually been confirmed that the underlying format is BDXL? Does this mean that existing BDXL drives will be capable of properly reading a Ultra HD Blu-ray? Reply
  • Ryan Smith - Wednesday, May 13, 2015 - link

    So far I have not seen any information to confirm that. Reply
  • Murloc - Thursday, May 14, 2015 - link

    absolutely not a given, maybe a firmware upgrade will do it, or maybe the hardware just can't do UHD and you have to upgrade.... Reply
  • herocero - Wednesday, May 13, 2015 - link

    I buy discs for movies where I care about SOUND. any changes in the ultra spec I can drool over? Reply
  • phoenix_rizzen - Wednesday, May 13, 2015 - link

    Object-based sound systems like Dolby Atmos and digital something or other are included. Reply
  • cmdrdredd - Wednesday, May 13, 2015 - link

    I read elsewhere that it includes support for Dolby Atmos and DTS:X Lossless formats. Reply
  • nathanddrews - Thursday, May 14, 2015 - link

    Audio won't improve much more than it currently has. We already have access to the lossless (and sometimes uncompressed) audio sources used in the theater. Current Blu-ray discs already come with Dolby Atmos - you just need a newer AVR that can process the flags, otherwise you just hear the "normal" 5.1/7.1 stream.

    Probably my favorite part about these new object-based audio mixes (specifically DTSX) is the ability to control object volume instead of channel volume. So if you want to increase the volume of the score and turn down everything else, you can. If you want to turn up the dialog so you can hear it over 'splosions, you can. Of course, it's unlikely that we'll be given too much freedom over that since sound engineers usually take great pride in their mixes.
  • phoenix_rizzen - Thursday, May 14, 2015 - link

    Being able to turn up the dialog and/or turn down the rest would be a welcome improvement to many movies out there. Too many times I find myself holding the remote and cranking up the audio to hear dialog, cranking down the audio during action, rinse and repeat.

    If that works well, it would be worth investing in a new audio setup.
  • Murloc - Thursday, May 14, 2015 - link

    that's because you're not doing reference listening like the technicians meant you to.
    If you want the cinema experience, you will get cinema volume dynamic range.
    You're not meant to crank it down when there are explosions.

    Anyway current AVRs can already do dynamic compression if you want to listen at low volumes, it has different names depending on the brand.
  • DanNeely - Saturday, May 16, 2015 - link

    Room shaking explosions might be fun in the cinema itself (YMMMV); but if you're trying to watch a movie at home while someone else is sleeping, or in an apartment building with poor sound proofing standard linear volume controls are inadequate. Doubly so if one of the people watching is hard of hearing and needs to turn the volume up above normal levels to hear the dialog at all. Reply
  • DanNeely - Wednesday, May 13, 2015 - link

    For anyone curious how rec 2020 compares with the Adobe RGB standard that's been common on wide gamut monitors over the last few years, Rec 2020 is about as large of an increase over it as aRBG was over sRGB.
  • Laststop311 - Wednesday, May 13, 2015 - link

    So all these early 4k adopters cant even display all the colors no rec 2020 support on current 4k tv's. I'm glad I got a 1080 lg oled instead of 4k. Need 10bit lcd screens with wide color gamut backlight or 10 bit oled that can support wide gamut before its worth buying a 4k tv. Reply
  • npz - Thursday, May 14, 2015 - link

    10-bit encoding helps prevent banding issues even on 8-bit displays. That's why you see enthusiasts use it even for things like anime, which has a lot less total colors and shades than live action, but stronger, higher contrast gradients. This is the tech white paper why:

    Unfortunately hardware manufacturers for fixed function decoders have completely ignored that. They also don't implement on the complete spec either. Current hardware support for HEVC such as in the latest Intel Broadwell CPUs don't support 10-bit profiles either, so 10-bit h.265 encodes still need to be decoded in software. I really hope that will change soon given the Ultra HD support for it.
  • Xenonite - Thursday, May 14, 2015 - link

    The above is true, however I don't mind using software decoding (I actually use it for all video decoding tasks as fixed function decoders are infamously prone to not outputting a bit-perfect decoded stream; i.e. they throw away even more data that "normal consumers with bad eyesight won't even notice" so that your desktop saves another 1 or 2 watts of power).

    I was also really excited that they would finally be implementing Rec.2020, however (as Brandon pointed out) they stupidly decided not to force 12-bit per pixel colour support (which would not really inflate video sizes that much as it just gives the HEVC encoder a bit more quantisation granularity to work with). It's also quite unbelievable that this next gen standard still defaults to 4:2:0 chroma subsampeling (which brings no benefits to modern digital video encoding and transmission; in fact, it actually further constrains the freedom that the encoder has with regards to intra-frame chroma/luma image quality optimisations).

    So the tl;dr version is basically that they had the opportunity to greatly increase both the subjective and objective video quality, while also, finally, getting rid of some ugly analog-era video encoding and transmission hacks.
    In stead, they only decided to bump up the maximum allowed bit rate a bit and to extend the saturation of colours that can be encoded without actually improving the quality with which the chroma planes get handled.
  • AnnonymousCoward - Friday, May 22, 2015 - link

    Why couldn't you be on the council? Reply
  • Rishi100 - Wednesday, May 13, 2015 - link

    It's great. I hope now, contents should be moved to 500gb usb 3 hard disk with all the additional material and appropriate copy protection for ultra HD. Reply
  • A5 - Thursday, May 14, 2015 - link

    My Blu-Rays don't lose data when I drop them, so no thanks. Reply
  • DCide - Thursday, May 14, 2015 - link

    So do they expect a 50GB Ultra HD Blu-ray to take more or less time to encode than a current 50GB Blu-ray?

    On the surface the answer would seem obvious, but there's so much difference in codecs that the time and processing power required can vary widely.
  • psychobriggsy - Thursday, May 14, 2015 - link

    HEVC is considerably more compute intensive for encoding (decently) than H.264, so yes, encoding into these formats would be bad.

    OTOH decoding HEVC is not more compute intensive, so transcoding to a lower resolution from HEVC to H.264 should still be viable. OTOH the savings might not be worth it...
  • bug77 - Thursday, May 14, 2015 - link

    First, there's no screen that can display the Rec 2020 color space (I believe about 90% coverage has been achieved, but only in a lab/prototype).
    Second, by the time such a screen becomes mainstream, BluRay will have gone the way of the Dodo.
  • A5 - Thursday, May 14, 2015 - link

    Pushing masters to be encoded at these specs should mean that the streaming services will move that direction by the time displays are available.

    And barring Netflix/Amazon suddenly giving a crap about PQ, anyone serious about image/sound will be buying or renting BRs.
  • bug77 - Thursday, May 14, 2015 - link

    Well, if you can't see the wider gamut, all that's left is the UHD resolution. And that only makes sense if you have an 80"+ screen. A rather limited audience I'd say. Reply
  • barleyguy - Monday, May 18, 2015 - link

    You not only need a large screen, you need to be at a close viewing distance.

    Most people with projectors are running well above 80", generally 92"-144". But they're also usually at a viewing distance in the 10-20 foot range. So the benefit of UHD is still questionable.

    FYI, based on a poll at Avsforum, 30% of their users use projectors as their primary movie display. So there are quite a few people in that group (myself included). People on AV forums don't represent the typical public though. (People on Anandtech don't either.)
  • OrphanageExplosion - Thursday, May 14, 2015 - link

    I assume there's 48fps and 60fps support in the spec?

    I wonder what the chances are PS4 supporting the discs? I did hear that many drives could get a firmware update to support BDXL but I'm not entirely convinced.
  • A5 - Thursday, May 14, 2015 - link

    PS4 doesn't have HDMI 2.0 that I know of, so the odds are really low. Reply
  • twizzlebizzle22 - Thursday, May 14, 2015 - link

    Yeah I did read at the beginning of this year. Sony and MS releasing a hardware varient with HDMI 2.0 to support Netflix 4K.

    Not sure how true this rumour is but it could incorporate this standard.
  • Sivar - Thursday, May 14, 2015 - link

    Rec. 2020 supports 4:4:4 encoding.
    If you've ever noticed that red objects (especially) on your Blu-ray look high pixelated, it's because they are encoded with 4:2:0 or similar, which causes such artifacts.
  • DorkMan - Thursday, May 14, 2015 - link

    Not so much pixelated, but smeary.

    Back a decade ago if you ever shot DV and then encoded it onto DVD you got 4:1:0 (in NTSC countries). Meaning that red smeared horizontally pretty obviously.

    4:2:0 means every alternate pixel site (vertical and horizontal) contains color information, a good compromise given human vision characteristics. 4:4:4 means every pixel contains not only luminance but also color information, important for some studio stuff but not so much for end users.
  • phatboye - Thursday, May 14, 2015 - link

    you mean to tell me this new format does not even support 8k? Reply
  • Lolimaster - Friday, May 15, 2015 - link

    Problem is there is no new optical media format (HVD?), just a BD patch with an additional layer.

    Aside from less color banding, current 1080p h264/AVC BD's will have better or same overall picture quality than 4k HEVC UHBD's, no improve.

    We need 150-200GB optical media to actually get the benefits of 10bit HEVC 4k high quality video.
  • CalaverasGrande - Monday, May 18, 2015 - link

    Blu Ray? Seriously?
    People are not renting discs anymore, they are cutting the cable and going to HULU, Roku and Netflix. That leaves people too old to comprehend beyond the disc player paradigm, and collector nerds. Not a great business plan. But hey, lets repackage Firefly and BSG as UHD Bluray!
  • laughingguy - Tuesday, May 19, 2015 - link

    I wonder how long it will take from until I put the disc in the player to the start of the movie? Reply
  • Harry_Wild - Saturday, June 06, 2015 - link

    I just got a 4K monitor and researching Blu Ray players for the Windows PC. I found that Blu-Ray Players are about $50 and Blu-Ray Burners about $70-$140! In addition; you have to buy Blu-Ray software to run on top to get Blu-Ray Disc to play! LOL! So basically, if you buy a player and software; you back to about $100-$150! And the burner setup is $120-$170 range. Sort of pricey still for just playing Blu-Ray Disc on the PC! Reply

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