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  • Morawka - Thursday, May 22, 2014 - link

    and just imagine what Tegra K1 will be able to port. Nvidia's CEO recently admitted Shield 2 is in the works. One can only dream what games we'll see ported. It will definitely produce stiff competition in the hand held market. What other handheld can play N64, SNES, PSP, Gameboy (all of them), Android Games, and stream PC while bringing console ports.

    Its only a matter of time before we have a Assassins Creed on this puppy.
    Reply
  • Impulses - Friday, May 23, 2014 - link

    Well, you don't really need a Shield to pay N64, SNES, PSP, Gameboy, or Android games... Even an older phone can handle those emulators with ease and Bluetooth gamepads are now much more commonplace.

    The differentiator for Shields is clearly PC streaming and NV's support... I just don't see the appeal of playing games made for larger screens and or mouse/kb on such a device, but that's just me.
    Reply
  • TheJian - Friday, May 23, 2014 - link

    But they won't play halflife2, portal, trine2, SSam2, nor any THD game and android gaming keeps getting better and better with companies like rockstar, gameloft etc aiming there now more than anything but PC and pc only tops it ~1.5%. On the other hand console dev is way behind at under 20% making something for any of them according to GDC 2014 survey of devs (PC/Mobile at 50%). If you're looking at devs on vita/3ds GDC survey pretty much shows they should just pack it in vs. mobile. The power on K1 etc just keeps going up vs these handhelds.

    OpenGL as others have noted will kill all of these as games will be made elsewhere first then ported to consoles. So you'll have no need to buy it later when they get around to porting to DirectX (xbox1/xbox360) or Sony's OpenGL tweaked api. Devs show nobody but the biggest dogs are aiming at console first today. Smaller firms simply can't wait around for 4-7yrs of console hardware sales to make money. Devs are not stupid and the audience on mobile is 1.2B today and growing to 2B+ in 2yrs. You have to aim here first or PC's for major AAA games today. Either way you have an easy port especially with kepler and a new desktop version yearly to throw at them. Just tone it down some with a few tweaks and boom, it's on mobile (or the other way around). You can become a millionaire overnight on mobile, where you have to have a HUGE AAA hit on PC's to do this in most cases.

    We are way past Angry birds these days. His stutters in shield 1 will be gone next month with r2/K1. We'll be talking M1 shield R3 next june. They will rev it yearly as it only costs them 10mil to dev it the first time and just a drop in of a new chip each rev. They are all made to fit inside the same envelope so no major design changes to change chips. Maybe a few mil to adopt new memory or screen. If they can do the entire design for 10mil (grid only cost 10mil also) then it's less to swap like chips into the same shell/fans etc.

    Rev yearly and port the most popular games as fast as possible while at some point start making their own games with new IP. I wish AMD/NV would both get into MAKING games as they know the hardware/drivers best. NV could spend 100mil on gaming and put out 25 AAA games (4mil each?, tons of great games on PC are made under 5mil, check kickstarter's most funded) that showcased their hardware and sells more cards. If you don't get your money back port to PC for a quick buck (amped up a bit on textures, object on screen etc) to recover or make money on them. If they can port in 2 weeks or less (as shown by ssam2, trine2, portal, halflife2) pump these out like crazy! They only have to break even to push the platform, so as long as you're not losing money pump out the games to draw the user base.

    I wouldn't even ponder a handheld today vs. shield and r2 is a month away which will absolutely destroy the perf of vita/3ds. R1 already does this + output to tv over hdmi, stream pc, play any movie codec android apps can etc etc. Tomshardware showed it streams fine from PC even on different ISP's in different countries. Handhelds are dead and sales numbers prove it. Consoles are already tanking too. MS Q1 off 50% just like I said previously ages ago. Wiiu had the same 50% drop off after 1Q. It is likely worse for MS since they don't tell SELL-THROUGH numbers. MS is at 400K/mo now (1.2m Q1 sales) and getting worse. Sony will be lucky to crack 11mil probably and MS won't hit 10 this year. PS4 is doing better but not a lot. It will get worse since no devs are paying attention to them first like last gen now. We'll have 20nm M1 etc next year in these android consoles. Scale 720p to 1080p using HDMI out to TV and consoles have problems (they already scale many games up) since you'll be close enough for many to not care.

    Porting in OpenGL is so fast they will have a pretty large library in another year. Shield already has 100+ games and can stream 300+ PC games in or out of the house and that's not counting the googleplay store's games which play on everything. How do you compete against $100-200 cheaper (assuming shield1 stays $200 while r2 goes for $300 again at debut), larger library, all android apps, pc streaming etc and they rev yearly. Casual users will not be buying standard consoles in years 3-7 like they normally do. You will be looking at a P1/V1 14nm SOC (pascal & volta names I guess?) just 3yrs into xbox1/ps4's lives and they may come with a huge cache then like Iris. I personally can't wait for consoles to die so that the time wasted on porting to these systems is spent on making the GAME PLAY fun.

    You launch a game today and you port to xbox360, ps3, ps4, xbox1, mac, pc, maybe linux & android. Good grief. We need android, linux, pc, mac. That's enough and all opengl/es straight up. Desktop gpus in socs along with all that comes with that ends this whole story it's just a matter of how quickly. Unfortunately for consoles, the perfect storm for android was already underway before next gen consoles even hit (and it killed vita/wiiu sales obviously - or where did all those buyers go?). Next stop: PS4/Xbo1, it's just a question of which gen on mobile makes them pointless.

    Qcom/Samsung/Apple really haven't even joined the race yet either. If they all join to port to android/opengl/ios, consoles are screwed in a year or two instead of 3+. Those 3 have the money to match MS's 1Billion for xbox1 gaming. I'm shocked Apple hasn't made some massive announcement with 140B in the bank. I would have said "$5B for mobile gaming on apple with $500million each year for 10yrs - Buy our crapple stuff!" and that would have been ages ago. At worst I'd announce it with Iphone6 debut to slow android's march and help kill dx/wintel etc (which helps macs too right?). There are enough crapple (heh) devices to support this kind of investment and I doubt they lose any money overall while gaining gamers and probably end up the #1 mobile platform just because they can bleed you to death with 10-20B in gaming and still laugh it off.

    That said, I'll probably cry if apple takes my advice :) That would suck 10yrs from now. But business is ruthless and that is exactly what I'd do to you and worse with $140B+40B yearly in profits. My guess is Jobs would have done this by now, while Cook just seems to not want to screw anything up. I'd put out a 150w box for xmas and undercut MS/Sony by $100-150 and laugh as they stopped selling their boxes. If they lowered I'd drop the same until they died or realized the battle was pointless and just gave up. Buy NV and drop support for PC's when you gain more share on macs. We are only on PC's for apps and games. Macs have the major apps in a lot of cases, so get the games and we have a whole new ballgame all around. Again I hope Apple isn't listening...ROFL.
    Reply
  • djgandy - Friday, May 23, 2014 - link

    "But they won't play halflife2, portal, trine2, SSam2"

    No because no one plays those games any more. What is this obsession with straight porting? It's quite the waste of time, because people have done those games.

    As for the rest. TLDR. Half of what you wrote makes little sense, demonstrates a lack of knowledge and is formed with very poor grammar.
    Reply
  • kron123456789 - Saturday, May 24, 2014 - link

    But, it's not SSam2, it's SSam3, and SS HD: TFE/TSE(in future). Reply
  • Impulses - Friday, May 23, 2014 - link

    Not gonna argue with the while rhetoric, but Shield isn't really competing with handhelds... It's competing with the phones and tablets people already have or want. I don't see it ever being the kinda massive success you're dreaming up, not that I care much for consoles either. Reply
  • Flunk - Friday, May 23, 2014 - link

    I'm confused as to why anyone is drawing a line between shield and other Android devices at all. Shield isn't a competitor to Android phones, it is an Android phone without the phone. Reply
  • anandreader106 - Friday, May 23, 2014 - link

    It competes with whatever else I want to play mobile games on, including phones.

    I have a Moga Pro Controller and pair it with my Nexus 5. The combination essentially gives me a better version of Shield (Read: IMO) that is just as mobile with more functionality.
    Reply
  • kron123456789 - Saturday, May 24, 2014 - link

    But Nexus 5 can't run HL2 and Portal)) Reply
  • Ny_Wi - Saturday, May 24, 2014 - link

    No. Moga Pro + Phone cant have better feel then Nvidia Shield. I have Shield and MogA Pro + G2. A very noticable lack in combination between MogA Pro + G2 is the hinge of MogA pro has a limited range so when you play the game you cant have a better angle compared to shield. More over the weight balance on MogA Pro + G2 really not as good as on Shield. More over stream pc game on Shield really enjoyable. Even I play local on my home. I can go here and there inside my house to play walking dead season 2 and Child of light. Reply
  • Impulses - Friday, May 23, 2014 - link

    Because when most developers design for mobile devices in general they design for the lowest common denominator, I don't see an age where we have triple AAA titles that need a Shield in order to run properly (like you might see for PC)... So the whole thing is bound to remain more niche, it's sorta like the Nexus platform of mobile gaming, nice showcase but that's it. Reply
  • testbug00 - Friday, May 23, 2014 - link

    SHIELD has sold under 10K units... it might have shipped more due to Nvidia giving away a ton at GDC. I was so close to getting time off to go also :( Reply
  • testbug00 - Friday, May 23, 2014 - link

    the controller. That makes is so much better to play those games... I imagine. Not to mention that there will be far more games it can play.

    Playing them on phones (in my experience) is very draining on the hands due to how you have to hold the device. I would say I have tried it on the SHIELD, but, given the specifications (read: the 720p screen, and, only being 5" screen) it costs to much for me to justify it :S
    Reply
  • anandreader106 - Friday, May 23, 2014 - link

    Try using a Moga Pro Controller. Controller wise, it is very similar and has the added benefit of charging your phone as you play. It's a far cheaper solution to quality mobile gaming if you already have a great phone. Reply
  • JeffFlanagan - Friday, May 23, 2014 - link

    I have a $20 bit of plastic and rubber called a GameKlip that connects a PS3 controller to my old Android phone. This creates gaming hardware similar to shield, where I can play a ton of emulated arcade and console games. I still mostly game on a powerful PC. Reply
  • Guspaz - Friday, May 23, 2014 - link

    Shield is uncomfortable to play for extended periods of time. While it does look like a game controller, it's bulkier, much heavier, and has a few ergonomic issues that are unpleasant in the long run.

    Personally, I see Shield as an interesting proof-of-concept that isn't all that practical in real life, and if they make sufficient improvements for Shield 2, they could really have something on their hands.
    Reply
  • kpxgq - Friday, May 23, 2014 - link

    for me as a current shield owner, the appeal of it is the fact that it is a portable and affordable device with:
    - high end SoC for sub $200
    - Miracast, HDMI, microSD
    - long battery life
    - rugged design

    The shield is still too large to be considered a true portable device IMHO... my galaxy S4 has enough power and versatility and is actually on me 99% of the time. What I like the shield for is that I can grab it, plug in a pico projector and have a completely wireless and battery operated mobile home theater. If I want to play my PC games on my big screen HDTV downstairs, instead of lugging over my desktop or finding a 100ft HDMI cable, I can just plug my Shield into the TV and have wireless streaming using either the built in gamepad or USB keyboard/mouse.. After gaming, I can just load up XBMC or the netflix app to play movies on the TV, the possibilities are endless. I cant do those things with most phones/tablets on the market right now because:
    - they are too expensive compared to the Shield in terms of performance
    - require adapters or wireless video adapters to stream video
    - most dont have microSD
    - most require a bluetooth gamepad/input device for any sort of non touch related gaming
    Reply
  • Jumangi - Saturday, May 24, 2014 - link

    The only reason this game happened was Nvidia did the port. Shield will never be more than a tech demo platform. You'll never see something like Assassins Creed on it. Reply
  • HisDivineOrder - Friday, May 23, 2014 - link

    This is the reason developers will eventually go OpenGL.

    Not because it's BETTER technically than DirectX (yet?), but because it will become increasingly more important for publishers to see games being released across a wide variety of devices including Windows PC's, consoles, smartphones, and tablets.

    The easiest way to do that is to use a cross-compatible platform and the only one that fits the bill is OpenGL (and ES).

    DirectX is only on Microsoft platforms. Mantle is only on very specific hardware and currently only on Windows.

    Which leaves OpenGL.

    More than anything, this little experiment on the part of nVidia and Valve works because it emphasizes this fact to anyone watching. I imagine this is as much about Valve saying, "See. You're not just porting your games to OpenGL for SteamOS and Linux. You're porting them for Android devices of all kinds, too."

    And now they can go and look and say, "You know. They're right. This is WAY bigger than just SteamOS support."

    nVidia likes it because it gives their SHIELD devices a nice bit of recognition as a portable gaming platform, but also because any OpenGL resurgence is a setback to Mantle.
    Reply
  • Stochastic - Friday, May 23, 2014 - link

    Good insight, I hadn't considered things from that angle. Reply
  • djgandy - Friday, May 23, 2014 - link

    This is nonsense. The spread of devices you have all have different operating systems. Do they have to use OpenOS?

    Developers are not stupid and they know how to plan for multiple OS and graphics API's. The rendering back end for most titles is completely abstracted from the development of the content. The designing, implementing and testing of the game itself is far more complex and time consuming than choosing what graphics API to use.

    If a game is for PC chances are they will always go the DX route because DX is far better supported on the PC. OpenGL by contrast is a mutt of an API with many versions and extensions with poor baseline support by all GPU vendors. It is a support nightmare. Still the rendering backend and DX interaction is all completely abstracted from the rest of the game.

    And then there are engines, that a lot of people use, which mean they don't have to worry about writing all their own customer renderer. And guess what, the engines have multiple API backends too.

    https://unity3d.com/
    http://unigine.com/products/unigine/
    Reply
  • grahaman27 - Friday, May 23, 2014 - link

    unity uses opengl, thanks for the supporting evidence.

    opengl is gaining traction.
    Reply
  • Jumangi - Saturday, May 24, 2014 - link

    The main Gaming development API on Windows is still DirectX. The Xbox One is based on it too. The PlayStation 4 has a custom API made by Sony. OpenGL will forever be relegated to second tier just like Linux on the Desktop. Reply
  • kpxgq - Friday, May 23, 2014 - link

    sounds great in theory but licensing and exclusive contracts will prevent that in practice Reply
  • Guspaz - Friday, May 23, 2014 - link

    Android doesn't use/support OpenGL, it uses OpenGL ES. They're not the same thing, and porting between them is more complex than a simple recompile. Reply
  • kron123456789 - Saturday, May 24, 2014 - link

    Croteam have Android build that supports OpenGL 4. Reply
  • Guspaz - Saturday, May 24, 2014 - link

    That's kind of irrelevant. You could do a custom build that supports D3D, but nobody is going to make software for it if only some niche custom build supports it. Reply
  • Stochastic - Friday, May 23, 2014 - link

    This is a much more favorable assessment than that given by Eurogamer: http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2... Reply
  • Dribble - Friday, May 23, 2014 - link

    Think that review's a bit harsh. One step at a time here, before you couldn't play anything like this on a mobile device at all, tegra 4 gives you 2008 era gaming at lower settings. That's a big step forward. Next step is to equal 360/PS3 on a mobile device and tegra K1 must be getting pretty close to that. Reply
  • OrphanageExplosion - Friday, May 23, 2014 - link

    The review isn't harsh at all when I can play HL2 on my Asus T100 Bay Trail tablet on mostly high settings at 1366x768 at 30-60fps (no AA though) with only the odd drop beneath 30fps. Reply
  • Jumangi - Saturday, May 24, 2014 - link

    Its hear with the Vita. Killzone Mercenary used a custom version of the engine from the PS3 versions. Uncharted Golden Abyss was a impressive game too and a launch title. That still hasn't helped the system all. Having that level of graphics capability is just simply desired by the marketplace to make it viable. Reply
  • ams23 - Friday, May 23, 2014 - link

    The eurogamer review focused on testing Half Life 2 in console mode. In console mode, the resolution is set at 1080p, which causes framerates to dip vs. playing directly on Shield. Shield has a 720p built-in display that is a more appropriate match for the graphics hardware inside. Reply
  • OrphanageExplosion - Friday, May 23, 2014 - link

    This assumes that the hardware scaler in Tegra 4 incurs a big GPU hit, which seems... unlikely. Reply
  • ams23 - Friday, May 23, 2014 - link

    With the Tegra 4 generation, there is a significant hit in performance with 1080p render resolution vs. 720p render resolution. Reply
  • OrphanageExplosion - Friday, May 23, 2014 - link

    Both Portal and HL2 on Shield render natively at 600p and are upscaled to 720p (Shield display) or 1080p (HDMI output). Look at the videos and it's as plain as day that it's upscaled. Also note that this article's observations on fps are consistent with what's in the Eurogamer video. Reply
  • kyuu - Friday, May 23, 2014 - link

    I'm pretty sure I can play Half-Life 2 and Portal on my DV8P (Bay Trail) quite acceptably at 720p and decent settings.

    Given that the Shield versions are apparently running at 600p with poor settings (no AA/AS) and still stutter, either the port is bad or something else weird is going on.
    Reply
  • Reflex - Friday, May 23, 2014 - link

    Even better: Use Steam streaming to play the games on your DV8P from a better equipped gaming machine. Sure the tablet handles Civ5 just fine, but loading is slow and details are turned down. Streaming it gives me higher quality video and faster load times. At least thats how I'm mostly gaming on my DV8P now. Reply
  • Morawka - Friday, May 23, 2014 - link

    So your comparing a year old chip to a brand new chip. it better be faster Reply
  • Morawka - Friday, May 23, 2014 - link

    so lets come back and talk when K1 is out Reply
  • Guspaz - Friday, May 23, 2014 - link

    I spent about 45 minutes playing Portal on a Shield at PAX. It was generally decent, but performance really chugged at times, particularly when you got close to a portal and looked through. Reply

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