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  • FwFred - Friday, November 22, 2013 - link

    I see this more of a split of the Qualcomm line between high end smartphones and tablets than I see this as a successor to the Snapdragon 800. At 28nm and without a radio, it's pretty clear this thing is intended for tablets only. As Ars showed, it's pretty clear Qualcomm is thermally limited at 28nm, and going much wider/faster won't really help. Reply
  • dgingeri - Friday, November 22, 2013 - link

    Gimme a Windows RT tablet based on this bad boy! I like it! Reply
  • lmcd - Friday, November 22, 2013 - link

    I'd love to see Windows RT/Phone first to the market with this chip. To me, that'd be the new dawn: launch-day parity with Android on power. Apps are coming, but lackluster devices (and the whole AT&T Nokia exclusive thing) really hurt Windows Phone and Windows RT. Reply
  • Krysto - Sunday, November 24, 2013 - link

    That will probably never happen, as Microsoft needs to support multiple devices at once, and they are too slow with development. Reply
  • Sabresiberian - Tuesday, November 26, 2013 - link

    Their new offerings coming out in December feature the Snapdragon 800. That puts them just months behind in terms of releasing tablets and phones with the top SoC. I expect Windows phones to actually catch up this year, releasing top hardware models at the same time as Android phones. Reply
  • cheshirster - Friday, November 29, 2013 - link

    920, 820 and 8Х were amongst the first msm8960 phones.
    And 620 with msm8227.
    Reply
  • Ekitrak - Friday, November 22, 2013 - link

    I would love to see this in a new Nexus 10 next summer. Omg just the possibility is getting me excited! Reply
  • Suneater - Friday, November 22, 2013 - link

    I can hardly believe that a 160 GFLOPS chip can win new Nexus 10 over a 400 GFLOPS Tegra 5. Google should be completely blind if they'll make it happen. Reply
  • A5 - Friday, November 22, 2013 - link

    Haha Reply
  • guidryp - Friday, November 22, 2013 - link

    So you are still believing NVidia Hype after the Tegra 1, Tegra 2, Tegra 3 and Tegra 4 all turned up a day late and a dollar short? Reply
  • ArthurG - Friday, November 22, 2013 - link

    if you don't see how well Nvidia improved their SoCs, generation after generation, then you are blind ! T4 is a major speed bump with great performance, topping many CPU and GPU benchmarks.
    T5 Logan with mobile Kepler on HPM process will be another giant bump, thus its not so hard to believe that it will easily lead the pack in the performance field...
    Reply
  • guidryp - Friday, November 22, 2013 - link

    Of course they improved.

    But you are really blind if you didn't notice the competitors improve as well, usually leaving the hyped NVidia chips out of the picture.
    Reply
  • ArthurG - Friday, November 22, 2013 - link

    I'm not blind at all.
    T2: a flop, not even needed to talked about it.
    T3: was outperformed on day1. It really lagged behind but got some robust design wins.
    T4: even with the late launch, is on part with the fastest competitive SoC, Qualcomm S800. Note that its even more impressive that T4 uses lower HPL process, giving 20~30% advantage on S800
    T5: A15r4 at 2.3GHz on same HPM process than S805. And desktop class Kepler GPU (not the crippled mobile version of Adreno 420).
    Conclusion, its very clear that each generation Nvidia improves much faster than the competition. It's not hype, these are facts.
    Reply
  • guidryp - Friday, November 22, 2013 - link

    Tegra 4 on par?

    [img]https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/oimg?key=0AvRw...[/img]
    Reply
  • ArthurG - Friday, November 22, 2013 - link

    how easy... me too I can also handpick a bench:
    http://images.anandtech.com/graphs/graph7508/59980...
    Reply
  • guidryp - Friday, November 22, 2013 - link

    Yours is an isolated subsystem. Mine is full GPU game emulation. Reply
  • Suneater - Friday, November 22, 2013 - link

    And now try to find results from 3dMark mobile benchmark and see how much Tegra 4 better than Snapdragon 800. There are a lot of benchmarks. It's stupid to decide based on the results from only one of them! Reply
  • guidryp - Friday, November 22, 2013 - link

    Just make sure you are looking at the offscreen tests, and not the onscreen test with a low res Tegra 4 device. Reply
  • ArthurG - Friday, November 22, 2013 - link

    Bullsh*t !!! Offscreen and onscreen are both important, that's why Anand shows both.
    Offscreen provides normalized scores, very useful to compare GPUs running on same resolution.
    But Onscreen provides scores at the device resolution, the one people must look at to see how the device will perform in real world.
    Thanks to Onscreen scores, we can clearly see that SoCs are not yet powerful enough to drive these insane resolutions at descent frame rate. Much better to have a lower resolution but smooth gameplay than a choppy retina one. Thats why I enjoy so much my Tegra Note 7, its screaming fast with all the games, even the heaviest ones. And it will still be fast next year with the new demanding games...
    Reply
  • infra_red_dude - Friday, November 22, 2013 - link

    You'd settle for 1280x800 instead of 1920x1080 just because the GPU cannot handle it? I'm not sure majority of the crowd would agree with you. But then everyone is entitled to have their own opinion :) Reply
  • ArthurG - Saturday, November 23, 2013 - link

    don't assume things you don't know... this tablet being used a lot by a child, performance in games was on point, but the stylus was the deal maker Reply
  • Tehk17 - Friday, November 22, 2013 - link

    T4 isn't close to S800 in GPU performance. That's much more important than minor differences in CPU performance at this stage. Reply
  • tuxRoller - Friday, November 22, 2013 - link

    T4 is pretty fast in single thread benchmarks but it still hasn't moved to a modern gpu and it's power hungry. They need to give up the companion core and either move to fully power planed cpus, or big.LITTLE. Reply
  • Impulses - Friday, November 22, 2013 - link

    Ironically they had more design wins with their most crippled SoC (Tegra 2) and it's only gone downhill from there... Reply
  • Krysto - Sunday, November 24, 2013 - link

    Nvidia just needs to stop with the "tablet chip" crap, that Intel is trying to pull, too. I hate it when they do that, because that's just code word for "our chip is not efficient enough for smartphones and maybe we'll have one that is 6 months later".

    So they need to start from the ground up - from the smartphone level, with their chip making process, and then increase clock speed or whatever, to make a slightly faster version for tablets, even though I think it's unnecessary, and it just means the power consumption rate will be bigger on tablets than smartphones (yes tablets have bigger batteries, but they shouldn't be used to "compensate" for a more power hungry chip like that).

    Nvidia said Kepler is very efficient, but we don't know yet what that means in practice. Will they keep it at under 1W of power, or will they make it ridiculously overpowered and consuming like 3+W of energy? I'm hoping it's the former, not the latter.

    I also think their delays are getting very annoying. They need to start firing people there. Kepler was supposed to arrive in Tegra 4, and Maxwell and Denver were supposed to be there in Tegra 5. They are 1 year behind their original schedule. That's just ridiculous. Now it means they won't have an ARMv8 chip in 2014 at all. They better have their Tegra 6 at 16nm FinFET shipping in Q1 2015.
    Reply
  • melgross - Monday, November 25, 2013 - link

    Nvidia is famous for overhyping their products. Their own tests. Which they happily share with the world, or used to, were always far better in results than the real world tests done here, and in other places. I never trust anything they have to say. Reply
  • oranos - Tuesday, November 26, 2013 - link

    Buddy, Nvidia can announce a 2TFLOP mobile chipset tomorrow. It doesn't matter. The point is that Qualcomm has it's chipsets in actual phones now. You can go and purchase a myriad of options. Tegra is nothing but a epeen measuring contest for Nvidia until they can get market share in the mobile space. Reply
  • Suneater - Friday, November 22, 2013 - link

    You can not listen to Nvidia marketing, but they never lied with their numbers. There's no doubt that Logan will be the most powerful mobile SoC in 2014. I can only agree that Tegra 1, 2, 3 were worse than the competition and tegra 4 equal but not better. Tegra 5 is a completely different story though. Reply
  • melgross - Monday, November 25, 2013 - link

    What? Their numbers have been wrong more than they have been right. Reply
  • Suneater - Monday, November 25, 2013 - link

    Ok, show me at least one example when they lied! They announced Tegra 4 and showed perf graphics where Tegra 4 was about 10% more powerful than SoC in iPad 4. And it actually turned out to be much more than 10% more powerful (115 GFLOPS in Xiaomi Mi3 vs 76 GFLOPS in iPad 4). So NVidia actually underrates its SoCs! Reply
  • Suneater - Monday, November 25, 2013 - link

    I'm waiting for any examples of Nvidia lies with their numbers (in NVidia's favor)... Reply
  • GTX420 - Thursday, December 26, 2013 - link

    given NV is still new to the mobile scene, i think they're doing quite well. Also, using Vanilla flavored ARM CPUs will have it's drawbacks compared to QC. However, T4 is FASTER than S800 on the CPU side. I think T5 will be awesome, this is probably why QC has to come out with S805, wo modem, how else will they compete with T5's Kepler? i honestly think S805 won't even be able to compete with T5 Kepler. T5 Kepler still probably has A15, hope it's 64bit, however, i'm sure if A15, it'll be updated CPUs with more effiency and power. Reply
  • fteoath64 - Friday, November 29, 2013 - link

    This is provided Nvidia has to DELIVER Logan in order to get any design win. The T4 was plagued with delays left and right so badly that it missed the boat and the Tegra 4i is not even shipped in any product to date. That is supposedly just an improved A9 core and newer gpu cores limited 60. If Logan can deliver and live up to its power/performance gain, then it will clearly win. But until then, the 805 seems like sooner to market than Logan ever will be!. Besides, Qualcomm can evolve this into several models within the 8XX model ranges to address different price points and power requirements of their target devices. A very clever move as they have done with Krait from the get-go. No wonder Qualcomm gets all the design wins and yet keep reasonable supply and potentially good price points to attract many OEMs to built on their chips. The taiwanese competitors on the mid to low end is catching up fast with different evolutions and very low price points to compete. I would like to seen Qualcomm match a few of these with more powerful gpu cores at the expense of CPU cores just to ensure the target phones/tablets remain competitively priced for the market. Reply
  • sutamatamasu - Friday, November 22, 2013 - link

    to anandtech please for use 'dual
    channel memory' instead '128 bit
    memory' after apple launch apple a7
    SOC some android noob user not see
    apple soc is new arm v8 chip and only
    know apple is make a 'waste' 64 bit. i
    know this '128 bit' is not related to arm
    core. but please for not using 'bit' many
    newbie user still thinking 128 bit is
    related to core ic
    Reply
  • frostyfiredude - Friday, November 22, 2013 - link

    That wouldn't be correct, these SoCs don't use the channel approach that DDR1/2/3 uses. DDR4 is moving to the same 128-bit wide interface rather than a pair of 64-bit channels as well so these "android noob user" will need to learn the difference either way as it'll be everywhere come 2014. Reply
  • extide - Friday, November 22, 2013 - link

    As mentioned by the other comment, specifying the bit width is the best way to go. It's 128 bit wide, it could be 4 x 32-bit, or 2x 64, or whatever. The most correct and clear thing to say is the width of the interface. I kinda wish desktop CPU's would stop with the single/dual/triple/quad channel crap, honestly, although it is pretty well known that desktop memory is 64bits wide per channel. Reply
  • Suneater - Friday, November 22, 2013 - link

    40% increase in graphics horsepower you say? And what about 300% increase of Tegra 5 (Logan) which is going to be available this winter. This 805 is going to be nothing compared to Nvidia Tegra 5! Reply
  • A5 - Friday, November 22, 2013 - link

    Yes, Nvidia is well noted for delivering on their marketing BS in the Tegra line. Reply
  • Suneater - Friday, November 22, 2013 - link

    What BS are you talking about? The performance of Tegra 4 is essentially the same as of Snapdragon 800 and Qualcomm was bullshitting us that 800 would be much faster. Reply
  • guidryp - Friday, November 22, 2013 - link

    Funny when I google I only see early reports how Tegra 4 was going to be the fastest SoC, but when I see benhmark tests like this:
    http://tabshowdown.blogspot.ca/2013/11/apple-a7-vs...

    Tegra 4 is lagging again, just like Tegra 3, Just like Tegra 2, Just like Tegra 1.

    5th times the charm? I'll wait and see on that. It could happen but NVidia has cried wolf to long for me to ever believe them again.
    Reply
  • Suneater - Friday, November 22, 2013 - link

    Now I see what kind of sites you use as source of information. Even there you can notice that tegra 4 actually won in two tests. Try to see results from different benchmarks and you'll see that 800 lead only in half of tests while tegra 4 in other half. So they have essentially equal performance. Reply
  • guidryp - Friday, November 22, 2013 - link

    NVidia leads in isolated triangle tests and the like (which are irrelevant).

    But they fall behind in high level test that actually emulate running a whole game.

    They are behind again on the GPU side. Just like all the previous releases. Which is kind of funny for a GPU company to take 4 generations at this, and still come up short on the GPU side.
    Reply
  • Suneater - Friday, November 22, 2013 - link

    OK, you think 3dMark is irrelevant? Don't be sick! Tegra 4 is much more powerful than 800 almost in all 3dMark tests! Reply
  • oranos - Thursday, November 28, 2013 - link

    yes. It's irrelevant as we don't know how much they will be underclocked to be functional in mobile devices. Reply
  • Nagorak - Saturday, November 23, 2013 - link

    Well, didn't Qualcomm buy ATi's/AMD's mobile graphics division? It's not exactly like they came into the game at square one. I guess that was a pretty big mistake for AMD to sell that. Reply
  • TheinsanegamerN - Sunday, November 24, 2013 - link

    It was a huge mistake for AMD. on the other hand, seeing how long it took fusion to come to market, and how well AMD tablet proccesors are selling, with not a single mainstream product using them, it was a great move by snapdragon to nab them. Reply
  • Kidster3001 - Tuesday, December 03, 2013 - link

    Yes they did. They renamed it Adreno is an anagram for Radeon. Reply
  • althaz - Sunday, November 24, 2013 - link

    You are correct that Tegra 4 ~= Snapdragon 800 for CPU...but for GPU Snapdragon 800 still has a clear (not large, but not small either) advantage.

    Power wise it seems superior as well.

    So with Snapdragon you get similar CPU, better GPU and less power. Why would anybody use Tegra 4 again?
    Reply
  • Suneater - Monday, November 25, 2013 - link

    Tegra 4 is better for gaming. There are a lot of mobile games with specific visual effects available only on Nvidia chips. Nvidia has close ties with lots of mobile game developers. Deal with it! That's a great reason to choose Tegra 4 even if it's really a little bit less powerful than 800. Reply
  • ArthurG - Friday, November 22, 2013 - link

    Why don't you take Anand comprehensive benchs suite instead of an amateur limited blog ? look at Tegra Note 7 or Ipad mini retina reviews here. Tegra4 is leading the pack in many benchs. This round, whatever you say, Tegra is on par with the fastest SoCs, thing that never happened before. Reply
  • Nagorak - Saturday, November 23, 2013 - link

    Well, you can't exactly blame a company for hyping their own products. I'm more interested in seeing how Intel's next Atom stacks up. It looks like they're focusing on boosting graphics performance more than anything, and they already have good CPU performance. We'll just have to wait and see how it pans out. Reply
  • oranos - Thursday, November 28, 2013 - link

    prove it. Name a phone that will have tegra 5 this winter. Lol. Reply
  • oranos - Thursday, November 28, 2013 - link

    Actually scratch that. Name a phone I can go and buy in a store in the USA that has tegra 5 this winter. Reply
  • HardwareDufus - Friday, November 22, 2013 - link

    Interestingly enough Qualcomm claims that MDM9x35 (4th gen cat 6 LTE modem) will be available for pairing (Fusion) with Snapdragon 805 which was announced today, (both are manufatured o the 28nm process.) Buying a 6" cell phone equipped in this manner running Windows Phone 8.1 this upcoming summer. It will be my computer away from my computer. Reply
  • iwod - Sunday, November 24, 2013 - link

    Well the 9x35 is actually on 20nm Reply
  • ArthurG - Friday, November 22, 2013 - link

    Anand, what about D3D11 level ? is it the basic 9.3 implementation ? And what about OpenGL support ? mobile version ES 3.0 or full 4.3 ?
    If Qualcomm said nothing about these, I suspect that Adreno 420 will only have low level support for these APIs. IMHO, this time Qualcomm will lose against Tegra5. too small improvements on GPU side. Maybe 2014 will be for Nvidia in high-end SoCs.
    Whatever will happen, very interesting time to come...
    Reply
  • ArthurG - Friday, November 22, 2013 - link

    And I would like to add that next round, with S805, Qualcomm won't have a process advantage like now with S800 on TSMC HPM vs Tegra4 on TSMC HPL. Electrical parameters of HPM is 20~30% better than HPL. Its a big deal.
    This winter, different story, both Tegra 5 and S805 will be on TSMC HPM. Knowing that
    Tegra 4 A15r2 at 1.8Ghz is already at same CPU performance than Krait400 at 2.3GHz, I suspect Tegra 5 A15r4 at 2.3GHz will easily beat Krait450 at 2.5GHz...
    Reply
  • syxbit - Friday, November 22, 2013 - link

    Not to doubt Nvidia's claims for the Tegra 5, but....

    1. Isn't it a bit embarrassing that Nvidia is the only Mobile GPU vendor not to have full Open GL ES 3.0 support? (Mali, Adreno and PowerVR all do it, and now Android 4.3+ and iOS 7 are OpenGL ES 3.0 enabled!)

    2. Nvidia has a habit of always comparing to old SoCs. With the T4, they were boasting that it beat the A6X by just a couple of GFLOPs. Then the A7 came out two months later and destroyed it.

    3. Arm's A15 has shown to be a complete dud. Samsung failed with it, and so did Nvidia. Qualcomm and Apple both make FAR superior designs. Just look at the Nvidia Shield. The thing needs a fan! And there are hardly any buyers for the SoC (and almost all are Tablets, as thermally it just sucks).

    3. Nvidia announcing the Tegra 4i is a complete joke. Who is going to want a Cortex A9 next year ? Only the contract free phones, and even then, you're better off with a mid-range Snapdragon. They were 18 months late on that one :). Oh, and it's still single channel 32-bit. What a joke. Arm realized their massive gap between A7 and A15, and that's why they designed the A12. Only that's also too late (and by the time it comes out, we'll all be on 64-bit SoCs anyway, so who cares).

    Also, Nvidia has already admitted that they won't have a 64-bit SoC until T6, which will probably come out H1 2015. That's almost 2 years behind Apple/intel. I'm guessing Android will go 64-bit some time in 2014, so if Qualcomm and Intel both have 64-bit SoCs by then, who is going to want the T5?

    So in summary:
    T2 was terrible (they didn't have NEON support, which was critical in Android).
    T3 had an abysmal GPU and single channel 32-bit memory interface. Typically paired with poor storage in budget devices.
    T4 doesn't have Open GL ES 3.0 support, and thermally is pretty bad. Doesn't have on board radios, which is why it isn't in phones.
    T4i What a joke. Let's leave it at that.
    T5 ? Well, it is full OpenGL 4, so that's good, particularly for Windows, but not really that valuable for Android right now. But considering it's 8+ months away, and it's 32-bit A15, I'm a little concerned.
    T6 ? This one could be really good. Too bad it's 18 months away at a minimum.
    Reply
  • Suneater - Friday, November 22, 2013 - link

    T5 8+ months away????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It will be available this winter (probably in January). And 805 will be released only 5-6 months after that! Open your eyes! I'm sure by the end of 2014 there will be 64-bit logan. People, you are so blind! Reply
  • syxbit - Friday, November 22, 2013 - link

    The T5 will absolutely not be available on or before January. Reply
  • ArthurG - Friday, November 22, 2013 - link

    Agree. If Nvidia boss is to be believed, T5 devices will be on shelves around May.
    And S805 will follow shortly one or two months later.
    With competing products available at nearly same time, this will be a very interesting round !
    Reply
  • djgandy - Monday, November 25, 2013 - link

    Depends what definition of available you use. Tegra 4 was available in 2012 if you use Nvidia's version. Reply
  • sherlockwing - Friday, November 22, 2013 - link

    Avaliable this Winter? Have you forgotten how long it took between Tegra 4's announcement at CES(Jan,2013) to Shield actually shipping(July 31, 2013)? Tegra 5 have not even been officially announced. Reply
  • sherlockwing - Friday, November 22, 2013 - link

    It will be announced in Q1 according to Nvidia, and judging by its track record won't be shipping until Q3.

    http://www.phonearena.com/news/Nvidia-Tegra-4i-and...
    Reply
  • Suneater - Friday, November 22, 2013 - link

    Ok, I see now. Thanks for the info. I think i'm going to buy Tegra Note 7 now that is to long to wait till Tegra 5. It's very cheap anyway. Reply
  • ArthurG - Friday, November 22, 2013 - link

    1- I agree its very disappointing. But and its a big BUT, quality is better than features. Look here to see what a developer thinks about current mobile drivers state: https://dolphin-emu.org/blog/2013/09/26/dolphin-em...
    And many devs think the same. That's why Tegra5 will be a big deal

    2. I don't agree. T4 is not "destroyed" by any current SoC. It's on par. Look at Anand ipad air review, Tegra4 is leading many benchs and never far (except those hardware accelerated that showcase ARMv8 arch).

    3. I have a Tegra Note 7 and its not hotter than an Ipad or a S600 Nexus. Stop spreading FUD

    3. (again ? should be 4.) Tegra4i is a very interesting SoC, well positioned for the intended mid range market. 4 A9r4 cores at 2.3GHz on HPM with good GPU will destroy S600 in performance, will have same features (integrated icera 500 soft modem) and for a fraction of the cost. It's a very important SoC for nvidia because it will bring big volumes. Rendez-vous in Q1 2014 and you will see

    64 bit support: totally irrelevant on T5 time-frame. Performance difference will be a much higher buying factor.

    Summary: T5 is being demoed and at OEMs since August 2013 and will be in devices on Q2 2014 as said Nvidia boss few weeks ago in a financial conf call.
    Reply
  • guidryp - Friday, November 22, 2013 - link

    You mean the iPad air review where it is compared to Lower Res Nvidia Shield that uses a Fan to keep to GPU cool?

    Some of the GPU scores are also run at native resolution 2048x1536 for iPad, 1280x720 for the Shield.

    So wow. When cooled by a Fan, the NVidia chip can eek out some wins, driving less than half the pixels.
    Reply
  • syxbit - Friday, November 22, 2013 - link

    As for your dolphin-emu link, I don't see how it's relevant
    " we are really curious to see how good NVIDIA drivers for the Tegra 4 SoC are. We couldn’t get hold of a device powered by Tegra 4 yet...."
    They are saying that regular Nvidia GPUs are great. They didn't test the T4. Not only that, but they said that they've rewritten their app to use Open GL ES 3.0, which means it wouldn't even run on a T4...
    Reply
  • ArthurG - Friday, November 22, 2013 - link

    it doesn't run on Qualcomm too and their broken papersheet ES3.0 :roll_smiley_will_be_nice_here:
    Sarcasm aside, you missed my point. The important information is not if it will run or not on T4, because its based on a very old nv mobile arch. The important thing is that Logan will have de facto the robust nv kepler drivers and it will be a dream come true for many devs : that what basically the guy expects in the dolphin article.
    Reply
  • syxbit - Friday, November 22, 2013 - link

    I'm really looking forward to it. Do you think the T5 will have integrated Icera? This is absolutely required if they want to sell well on phones. Reply
  • ArthurG - Friday, November 22, 2013 - link

    I'm not sure, for that, we must wait the CES announcement... Reply
  • djgandy - Monday, November 25, 2013 - link

    You really think that the drivers will just be desktop kepler drivers? Seriously man, stop smoking the wacky stuff. The hardware may be kepler based, but you are addressing a completely different market to desktop, and that means massive changes to hardware if you don't want to pay a huge penalty in power consumption. You can't just move a desktop driver, targeted at computers that have huge performance advantages (core i5/i7's, more memory, larger caches) to a mobile device without paying a huge penalty. Reply
  • infra_red_dude - Friday, November 22, 2013 - link

    "Adreno 420 brings about a D3D11-class feature set to Qualcomm’s mobile graphics, adding support for hull, domain and geometry shaders. Adreno 420 also includes dedicated tessellation hardware."

    That should answer your question.
    Reply
  • ArthurG - Friday, November 22, 2013 - link

    well if they are level 11 with hull/domain/geometry, it must also have DirectCompute (CS5.0) but they say nothing about it. That's why I ask. Reply
  • blanarahul - Saturday, November 23, 2013 - link

    Congratulations. You are the first fanboy I have seen here on Anandtech. And I have been closely following this website for over a year. Reply
  • melgross - Monday, November 25, 2013 - link

    You mean the first Nvidia fanboy? Because there are plenty of others for the rest of the platforms. Reply
  • Krysto - Sunday, November 24, 2013 - link

    Yup, 9.3 implementation, which means "D11 class graphics" headline by Anandtech is very misleading. He should know better. OpenGL ES 3.0 as usual. Don't expect anyone else by Nvidia to move to the full openGL within the next 2 years or so at least, and by that point, they might just move to something like OpenGL ES 4.0.

    Nvidia could move much faster than the others, because they are actually using their "desktop class GPU", which already supported OpenGL 4.3. I think they said it will actually support 4.4 at arrival.
    Reply
  • Krysto - Sunday, November 24, 2013 - link

    Hm. Guess I was wrong. It does support more features than 9.3. But that makes it even more shameful for Qualcomm not to support anything greater than OpenGL ES 3.0, considering Android is by far their biggest market, and Windows RT tablets aren't going anywhere fast.

    Tegra 5 looks to be the best gaming chip by far next year for Android devices. Oh well, Qualcomm's loss.
    Reply
  • Mayuyu - Friday, November 22, 2013 - link

    How about improving IPC instead of raising clock speeds? Fast dual core at low clock speeds has been proven to be best design. Look at Core 2 Duo and Apple's A7. People want thin, light, and long lasting (battery) devices. Reply
  • whyso - Friday, November 22, 2013 - link

    A7 is quite power hungry and core sizes are very large (larger than quad A15). Reply
  • melgross - Monday, November 25, 2013 - link

    It's not, really. It works very well in the iPhone 5s. How many of these other chips will be capable of working in a phone? Reply
  • BoneAT - Friday, November 22, 2013 - link

    I like the current SD800/Adreno 330 combo (except for the excessive drainage in heavy gaming, which is larger than ever), it makes the Nexus 5 very snappy.

    Speaking of, whatever happened to the Nex5 review, maybe I missed it?
    Reply
  • paul_59 - Saturday, November 23, 2013 - link

    With the 805 reported to be sampling to OEMs already, with the intention to ship devices to consumers in the first half of 2014 this would seem to make the yet to be released ( to end users) Snapdragon 800 ac redundant. Reply
  • SydneyBlue120d - Saturday, November 23, 2013 - link

    "I'd expect the transition to 64-bit ARMv8 to happen for Qualcomm next year."
    Do You think that by the end of the year we will have devices in store running ARMv8 or just a press release like this, pushing real products in 2015? Thanks a lot :)
    Reply
  • ArthurG - Saturday, November 23, 2013 - link

    I think many SoCs are waiting for 20nm to adopt ARMv8, thus will be announced at CES2015.
    In 2014, 28nm will still be main process, TSMC will not be ready to ship any 20nm relevant volume before 2014 Q4
    Reply
  • Krysto - Sunday, November 24, 2013 - link

    They have to be ready this year, otherwise they might as well skip the 20nm process. Tegra 6 is coming out at 16nm FinFET in 2015, which will probably give Nvidia a process advantage for the first time ever against other ARM SoCs (and my guess is even against Intel's Atom, too, which always lags ~a year behind the Core adoption of a new process node). Reply
  • blanarahul - Sunday, November 24, 2013 - link

    www.anandtech.com/show/7309/intel-14nm-progress-update-broadwell-airmont-on-schedule

    Tegra 6 with 16 nm comes 2015. Intel 14 nm Atom comes in 2014.
    It's impossible to beat Intel in terms of process node.
    Reply
  • fteoath64 - Friday, November 29, 2013 - link

    When ARM chips get to 14/16nm, the Atom chips will be trash .... ie out gunned and out priced such that no body wants it even if given free!. Intel race to the "bottom" is going to hit them hard in the face on that race, unless they wake up and do ARM!!!. x86 is already dead, they just do not know it yet... Reply
  • TheinsanegamerN - Sunday, November 24, 2013 - link

    hopefully we will see them. we still havent got a good sucessor to the asus transformer tf300t... Reply
  • fteoath64 - Friday, November 29, 2013 - link

    Qualcomm is in no rush to get to ARMv8 64-bit. Apple just did their launch of A7 and that actually buys at least 12 months before Apple does any refresh and they might just raise the clock speed to 1.5Ghz modestly, so the rest of ARM can chase performance with good power consumption on A15 variants and A12, A7 etc to optimize for their existing 28nm and upcoming 20nm process. At least it saves cost going to 20nm in wafers. Only Samsung is in a hurry to go 64-bit since they announced that already and actively seeking that path. Samsung has fab capacity and process node to handle their chip but volumes might be questionable (ie for Exynos 6). They have huge R&D in fab but less so in processor design as seen on their Octa8 chip. It might take them a couple of iterations but they will get there maybe first or second (ie a surprise ARM licensee). Reply
  • vcarvega - Saturday, November 23, 2013 - link

    I think I'm going to pass on this years Nexus 10 and upgrade next year, in hopes that it has a chip like this, or its successor. Reply
  • pbesk18 - Saturday, November 23, 2013 - link

    Vcarvega, you will most likely have to wait 2 more years if your skip the upcoming Nexus 10, I hardly doubt they will release another Nexus 10 next year. Reply
  • Krysto - Sunday, November 24, 2013 - link

    Snapdragon 805 is not a late 2014 chip, unless you mean they will move it to mid-range. They must have an ARMv8 core coming out late 2014, because it would be pretty stupid of them not to have one.

    Overall, I'd say Snapdragon 805 is even less impressive than Tegra 5. Adreno 420 will have ~150 Gflops, while Tegra 5 should arrive ~3 months later with ~300 Gflops, probably similar CPU performance, and much better computational photography features.

    Also, no VP9 support?!
    Reply
  • tuxRoller - Monday, November 25, 2013 - link

    Im not saying you're wrong but where are you getting those gflop estimates for adreno 420?
    Also, regardless of theoretical values adreno tends to do well in actual game benchmarks whereas mali and pvr tend to do extremely well in the 3dmark-type tests.
    Reply
  • Suneater - Monday, November 25, 2013 - link

    Actually by Anand's estimation Tegra 5 will be ~400 GFLOPS. 805 will be crap compared to tegra. Reply
  • blanarahul - Sunday, November 24, 2013 - link

    www.anandtech.com/show/7309/intel-14nm-progress-update-broadwell-airmont-on-schedule

    Tegra 6 with 16 nm comes 2015. Intel 14 nm Atom comes in 2014.

    It's impossible to beat Intel in terms of process node.
    Reply
  • Krysto - Sunday, November 24, 2013 - link

    Either way, the point is the full generation advantage Intel once had, has now been reduced to mere months with the adoption of FinFET by other foundries.

    Even at 22nm, Bay Trail can barely match last year's Exynos 5250 in CPU and GPU performance, while at 28nm. Intel will also not support more than OpenGL ES 3.0 anytime soon, either. So I can't wait to see how far behind Intel will be in mobile technology once ARM chip makers move to 16nm FinFET.
    Reply
  • melgross - Monday, November 25, 2013 - link

    And, according to teats performed here, the A7 is faster than the middle line Bay Trail, and close to the fastest version.

    Intel is pledging big improvements for next year. We'll see if they can make it, and barely keep ahead of the rapidly improving Apple and Qualcomm leading edge designs.

    It will be a good race.
    Reply
  • Kidster3001 - Tuesday, December 03, 2013 - link

    meanwhile, Baytrail uses 1/2 the power as the 5250. Reply
  • melgross - Monday, November 25, 2013 - link

    I like this "on time" description. Intel has now pushed 14nm back two times. I suppose if you take the latest timing by Intel, and it comes out then, it could be said to be on time. But, not really.

    I'm also not hopeful that any other bleeding edge node tech will ever be on time again. Remember that Intel's 22nm was also late.
    Reply
  • blacksheep242 - Monday, November 25, 2013 - link

    Hopefully now Snapdragon can compete with the PowerVR solution that Apple uses. Reply
  • LemmingOverlord - Monday, November 25, 2013 - link

    hi guys,

    How many of the in-house team doing Adreno graphics at Qualcomm came originally from the Imageon team? Does it still have a lot of "ATI DNA"?

    Cheers
    Reply
  • oranos - Tuesday, November 26, 2013 - link

    This is the exact problem with chipset manufacturers announcing new technology ahead of time. It's a complete conflict of interest for people in the market for new flagship phones. Reply
  • mjh483 - Sunday, December 01, 2013 - link

    Every time they release a new chip I wonder who will actually take full advantage of the horsepower. Reply
  • Wolfpup - Tuesday, December 17, 2013 - link

    Is Qualcom actually *leading* anything? Maybe it's because they really give us no information on anything, but my impression is that their best CPUs are still A9+, while competitors are shipping A15 (Nvidia) or even better than that (Apple).

    And same issue with their graphics-they give us no information, so I have to assume they're not very good.
    Reply

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