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  • BPB - Saturday, November 16, 2013 - link

    Came here just to see if the Apple love would be 10 out of 10, or 11 out of 10. Not surprised it's an 11. Reply
  • Jaaap - Saturday, November 16, 2013 - link

    There are also al lot of verifiable facts in the article. Reply
  • BearT - Saturday, November 16, 2013 - link

    Liked the article: 1. The display of iPad mini w/ Retina is superb, and its size dwarfs that of others in this category (e.g. Nexus 7). This matters to me as I read magazines in portrait mode. 2. I tried the browsers from a number of devices. The "Reader" feature of Safari is a must, if you loathe online ads as much as I do. 3. The high fidelity of the FaceTime "audio" is uncanny; one has to try it to appreciate the "pin-drop" sound across the globe, okay, just the long-distance. The normal phone audio doesn't come close in clarity! Reply
  • eggcustard - Sunday, November 17, 2013 - link

    I use Readability on my N7. Reply
  • RannXeroxx - Sunday, November 24, 2013 - link

    Looks like an interesting app, going to try it out. Thanks. Reply
  • julandorid - Sunday, November 17, 2013 - link

    Actually, the final rating is pretty accurate! The review mention all of the important flaws as the quality of the display which is still decent but not quite as good as it is on the Nexus 7. Also a very important thing is the price. The author of this review is not convinced that (double) price is justified anyhow. Actually the contrary. He practically encourage the buyers to take the Nexus 7 in serious consideration.

    My personal opinion is the display is not that bad as it is described, but it is entirely a conscious decision made by Apple to calibrate the display with much lower brightens in order to achieve a good battery and correct gamma. If they decided to put an extra power to the led backlight and does a different calibration then I guess we would have a better screen but in the expense of pretty bad battery life. Apple did a smart move by offering great performance and good battery life. Probably no body will notice the display since it is already better (I mean sharper) that it was previously. That gives Apple another chance, next year to advertize an even better iPad mini.

    The only serious concern that I have is the price! It is a known fact for years that Apple never rise the price (because it is already too high anyway) and always keep it the same while refreshing the product's internal and external components with better ones. However this year they decided to do the opposite - to increase the price even further.

    So, for me was no-brainer to go with the new Nexus 7. Great device, great display. I always smile when I look at it.
    Reply
  • Mahadragon - Sunday, November 17, 2013 - link

    True, Apple generally keeps the price of devices like the iPhone and iPad the same. The iPhone 5S is the same price as the iPhone 5, however, you fail to take into consideration that the iPhone 5S has the same screen as the iPhone 5. The 5S has a finger print sensor and uses the A7 processor, those were the upgrades.

    The iPad Mini (original) made 2 steps up in processing power going from the A5 to the A7 processor and made a massive leap in resolution going to the retina screen. The Mini Retina also requires a much larger battery than the previous Mini to power all that nice hi-resolution screen which actually forced Apple to make an iPad Mini that is thicker and slightly heavier than the previous generation.

    In short, the upgrade path from the original Mini to the Mini Retina was not a standard upgrade. It was a massive upgrade which prompted a much larger price increase.
    Reply
  • winkgood - Monday, November 18, 2013 - link

    Sounds like you are just making excuses for Apple. When they went from the ipad 2 (non-retina) to ipad 3 (retina), they kept the same price even though the new device has a better soc and higher resolution. (2 steps up)

    I believe they kept the same price point when they went from the iphone 3gs to 4 and from the 4s to 5, both of which involved improved screens and better guts. (2 steps up)

    They got greedy and wanted to keep their insanely high margins.
    Reply
  • ws3 - Monday, November 18, 2013 - link

    Apple's margins are not insanely high, as proven by the fact that for most of their products, they sell everything they make. How long has the iPhone 5s been out now and most Apple stores still can't keep them in stock. Reply
  • ELPCU - Monday, November 18, 2013 - link

    There is no doubt that Apple's margin are insanely high. Especially in phone area, they are making a tons of margin per phone. I do not know how can u say this stupid argument. Don't you see how expensive every fucking Apple accessory is? Don't you see how much apple makes u pay for increase tiny bit of storage? Go check isuppli, and look up their bill of material.

    I need to admit iPad, especially iPad mini series with 16GB wifi's margin is not too high, but margin from iphone per every fucking phone is just ridiculus. Why? because your phone cost is very deceptive, since 2/3~ish price is hidden under contract. You feels you are just paying 200 bucks per phone(for lowest storage), but apple takes bunch of money from AT&T or T-mobile, etc. You are actually paying 650 bucks(unlocked phone price). Most of iphone series have approximately SAMEish bill of material. around 200 bucks including manufactuing cost, and margin rates of higher storage one gets increased even more.

    Bill of material is not exact number used for calculating margin, because of warranty cost, marketing cost, licensing cost, etc, but if you uses 150% of BOM, which will give very close number of real unit price.

    Which means apple is making more than 100% margin rate in phone market.
    You think more than 100% of margin rate is not insanely high? you must be kidding me.
    Reply
  • puggsly - Monday, November 18, 2013 - link

    His point was much simpler than all of that. Things are worth what people will pay. If you can't build a product as fast as people are buying it, then you obviously didn't over price it. The problem with this is that if demand only out strips supply for a short time, maybe you did over price, which is possibly where the iPad Mini 2 will fall. People who really want the upgrade will justify the price but anyone on the fence may hold off. Most of this argument would be removed by killing off the 16GB version and shifting the line to 32GB @ $399 64GB @ $499 & 128GB @ $599 (maybe a 256?). This is a huge shift in value to the consumer for a trivial change in cost/margin to Apple and I believe would better maintain Apple's marketshare. Reply
  • ELPCU - Tuesday, November 19, 2013 - link

    Ur argument has a point, and I sort of agree, but bis point is not that.
    he said, apple marin is not super high.

    If he wants to say what u said, then he should not talk about "margin"
    Reply
  • Freerange1 - Monday, November 18, 2013 - link

    Go get yourself a good education! As you are clueless. All the other handset makers are losing money! Yet Apple's margins are too high? It should be obvious, even to a halfwit, that in fact the other manufacturers are too low! Duh! Even when adding more memory, there are more costs than just chips! You have engineering costs, manufacturing costs and assembly costs, packaging costs, labeling costs on the device itself, inventory and fulfillment costs, etc.

    Further, The other makers get the OS for free! While Apple's hardware margins also cover the cost of a much larger ecosystem, much better and more extensive customer support, IOS development, free software such as iWork, etc. Why do you idiots keep spouting off the same rediculous BS.? Back to school for you - you have failed!
    Reply
  • ELPCU - Tuesday, November 19, 2013 - link

    Nope, they just did not sell enough phones. Not all other handset makers are losing money. For example, Samsung makes a tons of money. Other top tier Android phone makers generally stays even or make some margin.

    I know non-top tier Android phone makers are losing money, and If we compare to Apple, there are not many company to even compare margin, because Apple makes ridiculus amount of margin, but that does not means other phone margin is too low.

    I need to admit that OS development/investment is Apple's special investment with right direction, but Apple makes money out from OS due to App store. Yes, they gave you free software, but they have indirect way to make extra money for those investment.

    Customer support is something Apple is doing decent. Especially in US, they are known as doing great job. But not throughout all the world. Especially for country without apple store, customer support of Apple is infamous for doing a terrible job. Also, Apple's policy is not flexible, which could be a problem for some customers.

    For example, not all customers prefer exchanging to refurbish phone, but Apple's policy is usually just exchanging to refurb phone. In US, delivering back and forth takes at least usually more than 2 weeks, so most customers are happy about exchanging to refurb, but for example in Korea, delievering back and forth usually takes 2~3 days, so there are a lot of customers prefering just repairing their own phone.
    Reply
  • akdj - Monday, November 25, 2013 - link

    As an owner of Apple products for a couple of decades...and since the age of retail Apple stores, since the release of the original iPod I have NEVER, EVER seen a product replacement take 'at least usually more than two weeks back and forth'. NEVER. This is pure, utter Bull Pucky! Typically, if your item is under warranty, Apple will overnight a return box to you---and IF you have to ship it out (no Apple store in close vicinity), return times are EXTREMELY fast! Even full display and logic board replacements are sometimes as fast as 24 hour turn around times (once they've received it). Send it out Monday, sometimes...many times, you'll have it back by the end of the week.

    And whoever is taking BOM in to account as the ONLY pricing that goes in to each and every iPhone is forgetting the expense of R&D, machining, setting facilities, factories and employees as well as the Raw Materials necessary to build the new phone. Hence, and most likely the reason Apple typically gets two years out of each design package (see 's' models for iPhones, the iPad 3 and 4....even their computers tend to get 3-5 years out of their specific model). Fusion arc welding? Anodization of aluminum....they're definitely riding the cutting edge of plastics as well. The new FoxConn factory build out with machines/robots/computers for fabrication is going to cost well in to the billions this next year---in fact, wasn't it just released they've earmarked almost 10Billion for 2014 fabrication plants, re-tooling factories, training and R&D?
    Apple DOES make money---they're smart about their manufacturing process, and they're the MOST successful selling specific makes and models....more than ANY other specific make or model from ANY other manufacturer. Yes...Samsung makes money, good money---about 20% of the overall 'profit' margin of the overall handset market. Apple? almost 75% of the OVERALL profit! That's amazing...especially with the build quality of each individual product, their ability to 'last', design, speed, eco-system, services continue to get better and better....post purchase support...Have you EVER tried to get a Samsung phone repaired? I have---the original Galaxy Note. Took almost 6.5 weeks to get it back, it was a refurb (not a repair) and I had a crappy 'loaner' phone from AT&T.
    It's NOT Apple's fault they were so smart initially setting up their system with carriers (where the bulk of the money goes to Apple, not the carrier). No seller of the iPhone is making a profit, other OEMS are allowing subsidized profits to the carriers. Apple was absolutely Brilliant when it came to that negotiation....AND the reason AT&T was the only carrier in the US for a couple year, Verizon didn't want to take that 'no profit' from hardware challenge on...all the while missing those massive two year data contracts. THAT'S where the carrier money SHOULD be, in the service, NOT the hardware.
    Would be cool if Android got more of a hand on this and helped Samsung slim down their TouchWiz BS (and bloat)....look at HTC's new Sense and it's lesser 'weight' on the UI. Check out the Google versions of the One or the S4. Much, Much smoother...and you can 'add' the launchers you want.
    It's hilarious to read what a 'sin' it is for a company to make money. You SURE don't see people slamming Exxon everyday we're paying out our noses @ the pump!
    Apple is smart, they're releasing exciting...fun products that are easy to use, yet powerful at the same time....they sport longevity, long battery life...more software available than at ANY other time in history for a single set of devices (iOS)----doesn't matter what you're into, 'There's an App for That!'----then, two, three years down the road when you want a new iPhone, or a new iPad, you can easily turn around and recoup 50-75% of the money you spent when you bought it new! That's amazing to me!!!! Try selling a two or three year old Windows laptop, a two year old Android plastic phone....or just look at 'completed' listings on eBay, that tells a whole 'nother side of the story! That money you HATE to give to Apple in the end, you get it right back in your pocket WITH another brand new, shiny, bad ass and FAST device of the latest iteration.
    Win. Win.
    Reply
  • ELPCU - Wednesday, November 27, 2013 - link

    OK, Preeetty long reply both yours and mine, so let me break down.

    - I have not experienced sending Apple product, so I need to admit you probably right and I am wrong about returning service. But, my argument still stands. Apple service is generally good, and especially great in US, but it SUCKs in some countries such as South Korea which does not have apple store.

    - BOM part : You clearly have not read some of my comment. I will copy-paste part of my comment for you. "Bill of material is not exact number used for calculating margin, because of warranty cost, marketing cost, licensing cost, etc, but if you uses 150% of BOM, which will give very close number of real unit price." The reason why I have mentioned BOM, because I do not have exact apple's unit price. Note I mentioned 150%, because iSuppli mentioned 1st gen Nexus 7 is about zero margin, and its BOM was 66.9% of MSRP. 66.9% is roughly 2/3, so it seems multiplying 3/2 is good enough calculation for me.

    Again I know BOM is not exact number I want, but I am just roughly estimating, but all iphone BOM are around 200bucks, so 150% is 300 bucks. Considering unlocked iphone with lowest storage is 650 bucks, it still shows Apple makes more than 100% margin rate.

    - "Apple DOES make money" : Let's face it. This is just not right way to describe Apple's margin. Right way to describe is "Apple make A TONS OF money". You said samsung make good money, which is about 20% of overall profit of whole smartphone market, and describing Apple which takes 75% of overall profit of WHOLE smartphone market as just "does make money". Stop being deceptive.

    Is making money is a bad thing? Nope. I know All company's goal making money.
    Is making a tons of money is a bad thing? This one is kinda Yes.
    Making a tons of money itself is not necessarily a bad thing, but generally company has done something ridiculus for making a ton of money.

    You have mentioned Exxon, which is a great example of this part. Success of current major oil companies including Exxon comes from old Standard Oil company. Of course, Standard Oil is infamous due to monopoly as you know. Antitreust law break Standard Oil into several pieces, and some of those major oil companies took over some fracture of Standard Oil companies or companies like Exxon and Mobil were those broken Standard Oil companies. Although Standard Oil had been punished, current major oil companies comes from those remnant of monopoly.
    Taking over some remnant of monopoly company itself is okay, but they are having excessive amount of market control-using old remnant of monopoly-is something we do not want.

    Yes, we do not talk too much about Exxon in everyday life, at least compared to Apple, but this is mainly Apple is rising star. People are just used to those oil company's control, so this is just less shiny issue. Also, nowadays there is a thing called OPEC, which is another big oil price controlling factor. So blaming only companies Exxon or Shell does not cover issue enough as well. However, no one like expensive oil price.

    Back to Apple, Apple is not doing monopoly now, but they are doing some ridiculus thing for making the money. Most obvious one? Storage.

    http://www.isuppli.com/Teardowns/News/Pages/Ground...

    It shows BOM of iphone 5s, and if you look BOM difference btwn 16GB and 32GB, it is 9.4 dollar. 32GB -> 64GB? 10.2 dollar difference. Lets' rounds up, and say 10 bucks. Again, remember, 150% of BOM is break-even, so If Apple make us to pay 15 bucks for storage upgrade, then it is even. Note they are already making a lot of money elsewhere, too, so break-even is not super generous thing in this case. However, you are paying 100bucks for every storage.

    As you know, this storage increase is nothing relavant to Apple's service quality or their investment for new fab. And, I am sure Apple do not need THAT much of money for developing nice and great new product or providing great service.

    Even without those storage price increasing aka being a BS, Apple make a TONS of money, but they are still not satisfied, so makes more money by doing BS thing. Yet guy like you still cheer Apple so happliy.

    Note monopoly was not illegal a long time ago. I mean more than 100 years ago. The reason why monopoly is bad, because they are forcing customer to buy product with ridiculus price. Apple is kinda doing similar thing. If we talk about a common laptop, I do not care much about storage, because I can swap HDD myself. If there was a SD card slot, I will not care too, because I will put microSD card. If Apple let other company to use their iOS(I know there will be a ton of tech issue such as optimizing issues or compatibility issue, but it is just one of if. Stop being nitpicking about my argument.), so I can have a light and decent iOS device, then I will not cry this much. But Apple is doing none of them, which force me to buy device with higher storage AND they set up ridiculus price. Doing fairly similar thing compared to monopoly. Forcing customer to buy item with ridiculus price

    There should be no excuse for this BSing. this is not Win Win by any mean.
    Another deceptive thing about having low storage is that review became deceptive.
    All freaking review said iPad cost 499, but in reality, 16GB is just not enough for iPad user.
    And review talks about Price/performance considering iPad cost just 499.
    To me, it just sounds like iPad cost starts like 599. Not just because 16GB iPad user feels lack of storage but also because Apple is intentionally holding its storage. 16GB was first gen iPad's base storage. IT IS STILL SAME for 5th generation!!

    Another thing is an expensive Apple accessory with their own standard cable.
    Making their own cable is not necessarily terrible thing, but their accessory is ridiculusly expensive. and when 3rd party company starts to make a lot of accessory, they change their connector to new freaking lightning connector without any good reason! If there was at least decent performance increase, I might understand, but advantage of having lightning connector other than 'small and able to use for both direction' is almost non-existance.

    There were terribly expensive iphone 30pin docking station in the market already.
    If you were the one who had something like B&W Zeppelin(600 bucks) with 30 pin, you probably won't be too happy. Yes there is adapter, which make it work, but it still harm overall look, which is one of big pro apple pdt has. Also, adapter cost you 30 bucks. tiny little adapter cost 30 bucks? that is 5 bucks at most!

    Again, price of storage and accessory are not relevant to any of those OS investment. If Apple wants to make money for investment, then fair way to doing it, is increasing their base price of iphone and iPad, but they won't do it, because they knew it will reduce their customer, so they are being ridiculus.
    Reply
  • pmarreck - Monday, November 18, 2013 - link

    If the market supports a 100% markup over the cost of parts... Then frankly that's just capitalism, and that margin is well-deserved. It's not like it doesn't have any competitors! But if you are a spec numbers whore, then you can go nuts and get your Android powered device for less, and miss out on the raw fact that the whole can be worth more than the sum of the parts. In fact, that is EXACTLY how "value" is created out of nothing! Reply
  • ELPCU - Tuesday, November 19, 2013 - link

    I did not said 'apple's margin is NOT well-deserved.'
    Despite of ridiculus amount of margin, people still want it, and I have no problem with that fact.

    I just bought iPad Mini Retina 128GB Wifi. I know it has ridiculus margin, but I found out it is still worth to buy it, because I have used my iPad 4th gen tremendously a lot within a year, and I am sick of its small storage so I bought it.

    I just mention it his statement "Apple's margin is not super high" is totally wrong.
    Reply
  • akdj - Thursday, December 19, 2013 - link

    I absolutely did NOT say "Apple's margin isn't super high"...NO Where! My point, and your counter was they don't make 75% of the profits....guess what, they DO! While Samsung enjoys 80% share +/-, Apple is enjoying nearly that same take in profit. That is again, FACT. Not BS. I understand BOM. I also understand ANY Flagship Android device also costs in parity with the iPhone 5s. Note 3. S4. HTX One. LG G2. There are certainly other options...but flagships, unlocked....are ALL 750-850 Bucks. All margins are high on consumer electronics....especially as the company's experience and reliability, speed and 'know how' improve. That said, you're arbitrarily throwing costs around when you're not in the know when it comes to SoC bottom to top configuration and design (A7). 64 bit A8 instructions set, new XCode to help developers in OSx to conform their apps....the 'R&D' if you will, as this is the FIRST TIME this has been done by an OEM! Qualcomm is apparently shell shocked. As is Samsung....and THEY baked the cookies! Lol....advertising, investing and inventing....buying other companies, and another probably 2300 'things' that go in to price per phone @retail. Not. Just. B. O. M.
    Lord
    Reply
  • darwinosx - Tuesday, November 19, 2013 - link

    Your numbers are way wrong and you are apparently somehow unaware that top end Android phones and and tablets cost as much as Apple devices. You would also be more credible if your spelling and grammar weren't so poor. Reply
  • ELPCU - Tuesday, November 19, 2013 - link

    Do research before talking about my knowledge or grammar.
    I am sorry about not born in US, so I have some grammer issue, but that does not make ur argument right.

    I will tell you some of real number.

    Source is IHS isuppli.
    http://www.isuppli.com/Teardowns/Pages/Top-Stories...
    They have done a clear analysis.

    If you want to argue this number is wrong, you should bring some kind of real number with decent source.

    Bill of material + manufacturing price of iphone 5s is 199bucks, while galaxy s4 BOM + manufacturing cost 237bucks. And I just check price of S4, which is 99 bucks with 2 year contract.

    Oh, I have not mentioned that S4 has SD card slot, so you do not have to worry about paying 100~200 bucks for extra storage.

    I know there are more expensive phones, mostly phablet. and I am sorry I do not have data for those expensive one, but their overall components cost & manufacturing cost generally more expensive than that of iphone, and those price usually go down eventually before new one release, while iphone price stays same until new iphone is released.

    When I buy it, my HTC One price was 199 with contract, and now, it cost 99. Oh, by the way, HTC One does not have SD card slot, but it does not have 16GB model, but 32GB or higher. Do you want to compare it with iphone 32GB?

    New HTC One Max-phablet-now costs 149. Any more question?
    Reply
  • akdj - Thursday, December 19, 2013 - link

    Your (their) numbers are wrong. Apple isn't disclosing the pricing in the aluminum process, anodizing, chip construction NOR are they 'selling' them in bulk to you and I. I own a Galaxy Note3 and a 5s. There's no way in HELL the BOM of the S4 is higher than the 5s. Or the 5c for that matter. Doesn't take a genius to see Samsung's build quality isn't top tier. Displays are killer. Nice SoC. But the plastic's gotta go! And those numbers are assuming a LOT, considering an A7SoC isn't available. Nor is the calibrated screen, casing, proprietary schematics, etc. not sure what your point is here Reply
  • farhadd - Monday, November 25, 2013 - link

    I'm sure if LG, HTC, Samsung, etc could sell their products with the same margins they would. Apple has a monopoly on the iOS market, and thus can charge whatever they like and people have to pay it if they want the product. If Samsung wants to introduce a revolutionary proprietary mobile OS and charge through the nose for that product, they may certainly do so. As it is they have competition to worry about. Reply
  • ELPCU - Thursday, November 28, 2013 - link

    You are right. Most companies want to perform monopoly if they could(for example, if it is legal).
    But this does not mean doing monopoly is a good thing.

    Apple is not performing monopoly throughout whole smartphone market, so Yes, they are doing nothing illegal, but they are doing something ridiculus. At least I can say it is a bad thing. Criticizing those ridiculus price policy is a totally fair thing to do.

    Especially, considering all freaking apple product reviews became deceptive, pointing out the fact that Apple's pricing policy is ridiculus is fair. Why? because all reviews talk about price/performance with lowest storage iPad, and very strongly recommending it.

    I am tired of typing out same thing. so here is another copy paste

    "16GB is just not enough for iPad user. And review talks about Price/performance considering iPad cost just 499. To me, it just sounds like iPad cost starts like 599. Not just because 16GB iPad user feels lack of storage but also because Apple is intentionally holding its storage. 16GB was first gen iPad's base storage. IT IS STILL SAME for 5th generation!!"

    I will still buy ipad, and still recommend it for user who seek decent entertainment device, but I am not recommending it super-strongly, because its price is really deceptive.

    By the way, It is really interesting.

    My point of first comment was simple as hell.
    "ws3 was FREAKING WRONG AS HELL, and Apple's pricing is ridiculus."

    He said "Apple's margins are not insanely high, as proven by the fact that for most of their products, they sell everything they make. How long has the iPhone 5s been out now and most Apple stores still can't keep them in stock."

    Do you agree with him? You probably don't.
    and NO ONE is properly arguing my main point.

    However, bunch of guys pop out, and start to misinterpret my comment.

    Let me summarize them all, and do slightly different short answer again

    puggsly : No, he did not mean that
    My answer : WTF? go back and read his comment again

    Freerange1 : U failed blah blah
    My answer : meh

    akdj : I AM APPLE FAN BOI!, There is nothing wrong about a company making money! and BOM is not accurate way to measure margin"
    My answer : OK. dude. but whole point of my original comment was about the fact that Apple has insane margin rate, and its price is ridiculus. statement 'its price is ridiculus' is more personal opinion. I still think most people will not disagree Apple's pricing-especially storage-is just ridiculus, but since you admit you are a big apple fan. let's put this opinion on the side

    Do you disagree Apple have large margin rate? Probably u can't. Aren't u? that's reason why u bring out 'nothing is wrong about making money(having large margin)', because you cannot directly say Apple does not have large margin.

    Plus, Look at your expression. What "Apple DOES make money"?
    Oh, how cute. Again, let's face it. right expression is "Apple make A TONS OF money". Try not to hide what you see.

    darwinosx : Your numbers are wrong, and your grammer is wrong too!
    My answer : Any decent source? I used decent source from Market research site.
    Sorry for wrong grammer though.

    farhadd(YOU) : IT IS COMPETITION! A company can charge whatever price they want you to charge!
    My answer : MY MAIN POINT was 'Apple has insanely large margin rate, and its pricing is ridiculus.' At least, I had not said anything about "having large margin is wrong" or made similar statement in my original comment. AND ALSO, as I have mentioned I bought iPad 4th gen a year ago, and now I have iPad mini Retina 128GB.

    As a customer, can't I say its price is ridiculus?

    It seems if ur friend say "I bought this, but it was terribly expensive.", are u gonna answer "All company has right to decide price of their product. If it is terribly expensive, don't buy it and don't talk about it anymore" something like this?

    Yes, I probably used too harsh expression, but this is because ws3, whom I originally disputed, said something TOTALLY WRONG. Still, I might used too damn extreme expression, but I do not think I said something wrong. Do you think ws3 is right?

    Although I have picked up, and answered every single bit of those comments. None of you guy is properly(I mean with decent evidence) disputing my MAIN point.

    I am stoping HERE, because I feel none of you guy can disagree my main argument reasonably.
    I apologize for my harsh expression, but I feel you guys are enthusiastically excusing Apple rather than having disputing, which make me to use even more damn BS expression.
    Reply
  • ekotan - Tuesday, December 17, 2013 - link

    I understand your point, but I don't see why it matters. Tablets are luxury products, not necessities; and all luxury products, by definition, command high margin.

    Yes, the margins are high. So what? People don't make purchasing decisions based on the manufacturers' margins, they make purchasing decisions based on the price of the product and its (perceived) value & benefits.
    Reply
  • akdj - Wednesday, December 18, 2013 - link

    Interesting comment considering ALL flagship phones are charging $100 for each storage increase. As well, their non subsidized price being essentially equal! HTC One, S4, Note 3, G2---all $650-$700 phones, identical to the iPhone. WTF are you throwing a tizzy about? Smart businesses make money. Smarter businesses make more money with better products. Pretty simple, actually common sense Reply
  • guardian1935 - Tuesday, March 11, 2014 - link

    Your ridiculous spelling of ridiculous is ridiculous, sir. Reply
  • ELPCU - Monday, November 18, 2013 - link

    Winkgood // For iPad mini, I think it is sort of excusable.

    Yes, I sort of understand your argument as well.

    Apple generally keep price same. But note original ipad mini cost was pretty low. Not just in terms of absolute price, but also in terms of margin, its cost is not that high. 1st gen iPad mini has lowest margin rate among iOS device, which is still decent amount of margin.

    But making it as Retina cost a lot, as Mahadragon mentioned.

    Also, comparing increasing resolution of phone and iPad mini is not same. iPad mini has significantly large display with more pixels, which means diplay cost is much bigger matter for iPad mini, and battery size is bigger issue as well.

    Yes, iPad has not increased its price when it move into Retina display, but they sacrificed significant amount of margin per unit for that one. And iPad mini does not have that 'extra margin'.

    I cannot say too much about margin rate of iPad mini Retina since I do not have accurate number, but during iPad 3rd gen has about 40 bucks higher bill of material. compared to BOM of iPad 2 just after iPad 2 release. It refers Apple had to spent 40 bucks more for each iPad, which means they gave up about 60 bucks per unit price. Considering resolution of iPad mini and iPad are same, despite of size difference, I expect similar or slightly lower BOM increase.

    If Apple do not increase price to negate those manufacturing price, iPad mini 16gb wifi will go in about 'zero margin' area.

    Apple can still makes some money with their storage pricing(yeah, 100bucks per every bit of storage!! that's what I call rip-off! ), accessory, and App selling, but I do not think Apple is a company who want to sell zero margin tablet, and I do not think it is wise in terms of company strategy, considering current apple's position--strongest company in tablet market.
    Reply
  • puggsly - Monday, November 18, 2013 - link

    I was wondering how Apple would both increase resolution and bump the CPU to the A7 and was surprised at the solution of upping the price. Not that it wasn't a good compromise but I'm afraid that Tim Cook is paying too close of attention to margin and missing the revenue boat. If people remember how shocked the tech community was that the first iPad hit a $499 price point at 16GB of storage, you know that Apple was charging a premium price for a premium product but that it was seen as a good value. Now here we are almost 4 years later and the entry level iPad and iPad Mini are 16GB!!! 4 years ago 16GB went further than it does today and Apple NEEDS to shift the entry level on it's products to continue to push the idea of Premium value.
    For many users 16GB will not be the premium user experience Steve Jobs demanded and Cook needs to balance that with margins. It will piss off some consumers but this can't wait till the next annual refresh. So maybe Cook does a Feb/Mar spec bump on the line to double the Storage and keep the price.
    Also, the cost of the cellular options needs to shift down to $70-$99 because the high end purchasers are going to balk as the price point climbs....I know I am. $629 for the 32GB mini with cellular is a tough choice. But at $499 I might end up with two this christmas.
    Reply
  • darwinosx - Tuesday, November 19, 2013 - link

    Iv'e bought four Nexus 7s as gifts but prefer the Mini for myself. 35% more screen space is a big deal and the apps are better with more selection. It's also quite a bit faster than the Nexus 7 which is very apparent if you have used both. The Nexus 7 is sold at cost so it's an amazing value but it also feels cheap compared to a Mini. Reply
  • rake36 - Tuesday, November 19, 2013 - link

    It costs less than half as much. Currently $239 for 32GB version... Reply
  • Walkop - Wednesday, November 27, 2013 - link

    I'd like to comment that the Nexus 7 2013's power consumption on the display is incredibly low even at maximum brightness (which is extremely high, overall).

    1.7 watts. That's literally HALF the power consumption of the Retina Mini at max brightness, which is 32% dimmer than the Nexus 7. That alone is a massive gain; you should be able to use the Nexus 7 at maximum brightness much longer than the Mini. Not that this is a normal use case, but it IS good to know.

    See here: http://www.displaymate.com/Tablet_ShootOut_4.htm
    Reply
  • tigmd99 - Saturday, November 16, 2013 - link

    Did you not read his last paragraph? Or are you just a blind Android fanboy? Reply
  • BPB - Saturday, November 16, 2013 - link

    Yes, read it. No, not at all.

    I had to leave AT&T for work reasons so I had to give up my 920, which I loved. Have an HTC One and like it, but don't love it. I think too many Android apps are wanting, and I know in many cases the iOS version is better. My point is that this site's love for Apple knows no bounds. As soon as its founder switched it was all over, Apple could do no wrong. Yes, this is a nice device, no doubt. But the Nexus 7 is nice, and it's close to half the price. What does it take to simply admit that the 7 is probably the better buy for a person making a first time purchase? You pay 57% of what the mini costs! That's some deal in my mind, and yet I have no intention of buying either. I will probably get my daughter a Windows 8.1 tablet with good pen support so she can use OneNote, she is in college. My brother's family is all iOS, so I get them Apple related gifts. They're all good and have their strengths. But here, at this site, Apple is treated differently. If you don't think so just ask WP users.
    Reply
  • tigmd99 - Saturday, November 16, 2013 - link

    Why must he address every possibility or buying option? He stated that N7 is a very good alternative and cheaper. What do you want him to say? That it is superior in every way to iPad Mini? That would be stupid, no?

    A7 is far superior to Nexus 7 processor...far superior. App store, customer service, HD movies, etc. are better in iOS. (I have both at home, Note 2, Nexus 7 [2012], iPhones.) Do these things make up for the price difference? Well, only the end-user can determine that, which is kinda what Anandtech wrote.

    Be fair.
    Reply
  • Tetracycloide - Saturday, November 16, 2013 - link

    Because addressing the single most competitive alternative is 'addressing every option.' Please... Reply
  • KPOM - Saturday, November 16, 2013 - link

    My guess is that people considering an iPad mini aren't looking at Windows 8.1 devices. They are targeted more toward the iPad Air buyer. The Nexus 7 and Amazon Kindle HDX are the two devices most comparable to the iPad mini. Reply
  • kyuu - Saturday, November 16, 2013 - link

    There are 8-inch Win8.1 tabs that are cheaper than the iPad Mini. Only reason someone wouldn't look at them is out of ignorance. Reply
  • abazigal - Saturday, November 16, 2013 - link

    The reason I wouldn't consider windows tablets is simply because they don't meet my needs at all.

    Why would I want a 16:9 tablet running a desktop OS with apps still sporting a desktop UI?
    Reply
  • sirfergy - Sunday, November 17, 2013 - link

    The Dell is 16:10, <$299 and amazing. Full PC plus excellent touch experience. Reply
  • akdj - Sunday, November 17, 2013 - link

    Sirfergy....YOU were the 'one' that actually bought the Dell. I was wondering...because they sure ain't selling! Lol...that isn't an 'amazing' tablet by any stretch. It's cheaply made, feels like it's cheaply made, lacks any sort of Eco system or app development community, and 16:10 couldn't be a worse format for using in portrait, reading a book, surfing, etc. Anand's comments to wrap it up, mentioning both the Nex7 and the HDx in the article are excellent recommendations if iOS isn't your thing. That Dell is a bad joke. If Windows is hour thing, last year's Surface at a $150 discount (299-349) is a significantly better buy...or, if you can swing the $500, the Surface 2 is a significantly better option that that silly Dell that definitely does NOT boast a 'Full PC plus excellent experience'.
    One other cool thing about the iOS devices, they maintain their value. Like their lap and desktop counterparts, if you decide to upgrade each year, you'll typically recoup 70-80% of the original value. Keep it for two years, you'll grab 50-60/70% of that original purchase price. Try 'giving' away a two year old Dell Windows tablet. You're certainly not going to 'sell' it or recoup any of that original outlay
    J
    Reply
  • ws3 - Saturday, November 16, 2013 - link

    or because they don't want a Windows 8.1 tablet. Reply
  • Puberticus - Saturday, November 16, 2013 - link

    Who cares about the hardware. I'm only concerned about the ecosystem. Win has none. They have to bribe developers to come up with anything. Reply
  • Cptn_Slo - Sunday, November 17, 2013 - link

    Why you don't want Win8 tablets

    OS more suited for desktop
    Few useful metro apps
    Slower than android/ios on same hardware
    Screen is shit for same price
    OS takes up more space
    Thicker with less battery life @ same price
    Viruses
    Reply
  • teng029 - Sunday, November 17, 2013 - link

    One should choose anything they purchase based on need. A cheaper tablet doesn't make a better tablet. There are other differences to consider such as the ecosystem. When you buy a car, do you buy the cheapest or do you buy the one that fits your needs? Reply
  • zeagus - Monday, November 18, 2013 - link

    Or, you know, preference for the iOS experience on a tablet. Reply
  • RadarTheKat - Monday, November 18, 2013 - link

    Or prior experience with Windows, and Microsoft in general. LOL! Reply
  • socio-statistical - Monday, November 18, 2013 - link

    Or, maybe they want to run actual tablet software on a tablet, and not have to use it like a laptop. Reply
  • doobydoo - Monday, November 18, 2013 - link

    Firstly - because the Nexus 7 is pretty much the ONLY alternative that anyone who had done any research would consider, he arguably IS addressing every option.

    But secondly, and most importantly, did you miss the very first line in the comment to which you replied, in which he argues that asking Anand to address every single possibility is stupid?
    Reply
  • jameskatt - Saturday, November 16, 2013 - link

    If you can't afford an Apple product, you simply aren't a target Apple customer.

    If you care about quality - like the Chinese who make 3% of the world's population but buy 30% of the world's luxury goods - then you buy the iPad mini or iPad air.

    When you love luxury cars, you simply don't buy a Hyundai or Chevy. You buy Mercedes Benz or BMW. If you want to economize, you at least buy a Lexus.
    Reply
  • Rogess - Saturday, November 16, 2013 - link

    Last time I checked China had a population bigger than 1.3 billion. That would account for roughly 18% of the world's population.

    I agree with your metaphor about luxury cars, however. It's a known fact that you pay premium for an Apple product because it is an luxury item. Often you get the same functionality at a minor price point (just like in the car market). But everyone can decide for themselves if the added bonus like brandname or reliability is worth the price difference.
    Reply
  • MarcSP - Saturday, November 16, 2013 - link

    I think he ment the rich chinese, not all of them, but yes, it is not so clear, and I would like to konw the source of that info, hehe. Reply
  • sebas4096 - Thursday, December 12, 2013 - link

    you only need to check who are the strong buyers: mostly teens but anybody who think apple is like BMW is not ready to discuss like a grown up .BMW builds/design cars in a entire difrent way as mainstream car manufacturers ,

    justifying the high prices of apple comparing to BMW is insulting cos is a 12year old argument,BMW uses a diffrent technology and materials as well highly trained workers if apple would be doing the same thing the devices would not be manufactured like chicken wings in a chinese factory, i just cant believe somebody older than 20 is using BMW-apple analogy maybe because they dont know what is like to own a bmw, people just buy apple cos is trendy ...products in the same park as BMW dont have the problems as apple period ,neither use deceiving marketing strategies to sell..the antenna problem, scuffgate ,just a joke, apple is the starbucks of gadgets name a problem with defective materials in BMW,audi.. apple will never have the same quality as BMW they will never ship a product being aware is faulty like iphone 5 ,macbooks that crack by itself .rich people just buy it cos they now not many people will get it mostly teens..apple fans will keep dreaming with delusional europeans cars methaphors while they will never have a bmw but they will buy apple BIG LOL
    Reply
  • bplewis24 - Saturday, November 16, 2013 - link

    I care about quality, which is one of the reasons I buy Android. Reply
  • darkcrayon - Saturday, November 16, 2013 - link

    There's a specific "Android" brand that denotes quality? Reply
  • Cptn_Slo - Sunday, November 17, 2013 - link

    He must mean samsung,

    oh wait...
    Reply
  • zeagus - Monday, November 18, 2013 - link

    HTC stands alone there I think. Reply
  • sebas4096 - Thursday, December 12, 2013 - link

    like this" appleinsider.com/articles/12/09/21/some_users_find_scuffs_nicks_on_newly_purchased_iphone_5s , never have seen a bmw with this problem, neither audi or ferrari

    sorry but scuffgate technology cant be copied only steve knows
    Reply
  • zeagus - Monday, November 18, 2013 - link

    Hahahhaahaa... Reply
  • RadarTheKat - Monday, November 18, 2013 - link

    Plus the mini has a larger display than the Nexus 7. That makes a big difference if you've held them side by side. Reply
  • socio-statistical - Monday, November 18, 2013 - link

    Yeah, but, if the article is fair, then it's not promoting Android... Reply
  • KPOM - Saturday, November 16, 2013 - link

    How does he say Apple can do no wrong? He pointed out that the mini isn't a "no compromises" device as he had hoped, and has given high marks to competing devices from Google and Samsung. Reply
  • MrX8503 - Saturday, November 16, 2013 - link

    The Verge also said it was a "no compromises" device. Its a great tablet, admit it. Reply
  • kji875 - Saturday, November 16, 2013 - link

    False. Every 32 bit ARM device is compromised because of the lack of native compatibility with x86 apps, traditional UI, and features. Reply
  • chaosbloodterfly - Saturday, November 16, 2013 - link

    *points out* A7 is 64 bit ARM. Reply
  • ws3 - Saturday, November 16, 2013 - link

    By those standards every supercomputer on the top 500 list is "compromised" because none of them run Windows. Reply
  • zeagus - Monday, November 18, 2013 - link

    Point! Reply
  • abazigal - Saturday, November 16, 2013 - link

    I would argue that that's the main reason why I love my iPad - precisely because Apple had the foresight and common sense not to try and shoehorn a desktop OS into a tablet form factor. Reply
  • darkcrayon - Saturday, November 16, 2013 - link

    Then I guess they're also "compromised" by not running some of the awesome classic 8 bit Apple ][ games natively? Not sure you're using "compromised" in the way people are generally talking about with tablets. Reply
  • Cptn_Slo - Sunday, November 17, 2013 - link

    x86 doesn't work well on tablets, or else MS would be selling Surfaces like crazy. Reply
  • MarcSP - Sunday, November 17, 2013 - link

    Surface is not x86. I don't understand why the CPU architecture is important for the common user. I think the overall experience is what they mind. And, anyway, latest x86 SoC are as good or better than ARM counterparts in performance and power consumption. Reply
  • zeagus - Monday, November 18, 2013 - link

    Competitive, not as good or better. The A7 and even IIRC SnapDragon 8xx beats the latest x86 mobile SoC from Intel. Reply
  • MarcSP - Monday, November 18, 2013 - link

    Ok, but my point is still valid, that x86 or ARM is barely something relevant when choosing one device (being other factors, such as the OS, the same or similar). Reply
  • ananduser - Sunday, November 17, 2013 - link

    The Verge also noticed performance issues, stuttering and lag. Reply
  • socio-statistical - Monday, November 18, 2013 - link

    Good luck getting an Android user to admit even that their device is an outright copy of the iPad (which literally everyone else can see) let alone that anyone would consider buying the iPad it so obviously copies. At least MSFT finally produced a not-totally-cribbed from Apple device. (If we can at this point consider Windows to be anything remotely 'new' or original that is.) Reply
  • MrX8503 - Saturday, November 16, 2013 - link

    Srry KPOM. Meant to reply to BPB. Reply
  • BPB - Saturday, November 16, 2013 - link

    The day this site recommends an Android or Windows device over the competing Apple product I will reconsider. My point is that in the end every article/review here leans Apple when Apple is involved. Heck, the phone guy doesn't even do Windows Phone devices and openly mocks them. At the end of the day they will give the Apple competitors some praise, but they don't recommend the competitors over Apple.

    Check out the Nexus 7 conclusion:
    "The original Nexus 7 gave us a decent Android experience at a very low cost. This year ASUS and Google raised the bar for sure. The new Nexus 7 is no longer just a decent tablet at a good price, it's an incredible tablet. With this Nexus, it's clear that Google no longer wants to rely on value alone. The 2013 Nexus 7 redefines what you should expect to pay for a truly great tablet. If you're in the market for an ultra portable tablet, and definitely if you're shopping for an Android tablet in particular, the new Nexus 7 should be at the top of your list. It's so good that I'm giving it our Silver Award."

    An "incredible" and "truly great" tablet at a good price gets a silver award, not gold. What does it take to get gold? Possibly, just possibly, a company name that is a fruit.
    Reply
  • chaosbloodterfly - Saturday, November 16, 2013 - link

    The only gold award given to a smartphone was to the HTC One, a decidedly not fruity company. Anandtech also doesn't give out awards lightly. There isn't even an award in this review. Or the 5s review. Stop grasping at straws here. Reply
  • KPOM - Saturday, November 16, 2013 - link

    I don't believe Anand has ever actually awarded an Apple product a gold award (at least not recently). Reply
  • BPB - Saturday, November 16, 2013 - link

    By the way, I in no way deny the fact that Apple makes good stuff. My best friend and my brother use their products, and they are not fools.

    I didn't realize I accidently deleted the following from my previous comment:

    "Yes, Apple doesn't get an award here, nor do I see any in other reviews I found after a quick search. But I think I know why that is. In order to give out awards you need to have competition, here, at least, Apple has none."
    Reply
  • ws3 - Saturday, November 16, 2013 - link

    Well there you go. Apple makes excellent products, so they get good reviews. What a surprise.
    Other people also make excellent products and get good reviews. So what's your beef?
    Reply
  • p_giguere1 - Saturday, November 16, 2013 - link

    Objectivity is equality in opportunity, not outcome.

    The fact Apple products may get recommended more often than competing products in no way proves a lack of objectivity.
    Reply
  • BPB - Saturday, November 16, 2013 - link

    Agreed. Reply
  • Dennis Travis - Saturday, November 16, 2013 - link

    I like Windows Phones but lets face it, App support is very bad. If I can't get what I need to do what I need to do, I will go to a product that has the support. WP8 does not have that support at the moment anyway. Reply
  • kyuu - Saturday, November 16, 2013 - link

    What a bunch of BS. What oh-so-important apps aren't present on WP8? Reply
  • Puberticus - Saturday, November 16, 2013 - link

    Most of them. Reply
  • MarcSP - Saturday, November 16, 2013 - link

    I have all the apps I need in WP. You do not represent everybody. Case by case. Reply
  • MonkeyPaw - Saturday, November 16, 2013 - link

    Perhaps he knows that he's writing to mainly potential Apple buyers. Let's face it, most people are going to stick with the platform they've already invested in (like apps, music, and videos).

    That said, I never pick up this "bias" that people claim, and I feel these Apple-bias complaints waste so much comment space here. Anand never says "go buy an Apple product or your family will disown you." He doesn't even talk about Apple's peripheral products (Airplay, iTunes, iCloud, etc.), he just calls the products what they are. I don't own a single Apple product, and I'm not a fan of iOS, but I can totally see the quality in Apple's product line, and I can even see why someone would like iOS. I own a Surface 2 and Lumina 521, but I won't deny that Apple makes a good product that lots of people like. That's all I hear Anand say in his articles. The site reviews the hardware, and lets the buyer decide what they want to buy. I just don't get why people take it so personally.
    Reply
  • Puberticus - Saturday, November 16, 2013 - link

    I think people literally cannot face the prospect that they bought the wrong product. And many will defend what they did to the last dying breath. It literally becomes a religious issue.

    Which IMHO, makes no sense since the technology in question doesn't give a damn about the owner. You can see it on other sites; the minute an Apple product is mentioned, the android fans come out of the woodwork for no other reason than to dis it. And it's obvious they've never touched the product they're criticizing. What the heck is that all about?!?

    Absolutely bizarre.
    Reply
  • KoolAidMan1 - Sunday, November 17, 2013 - link

    Android fanatics on tech forums are louder and more irrational than any Apple user I've ever seen. Its weird since iDevices cross between both PC and Mac users.

    Teenage console fanboys are more sane than some of those people.
    Reply
  • Puberticus - Saturday, November 16, 2013 - link

    I'm truly puzzled.
    Why are you trying to turn this into a religious issue?
    The review was concise and detailed. Why do you have a problem with that?
    Apple produces superb products. Deal with it.
    Reply
  • KoolAidMan1 - Sunday, November 17, 2013 - link

    You Android fanatics are unbelievable. Anand backs up everything he says and in response there are so many irrational fanboy responses because he dare says that Apple makes the best option.

    He also doesn't give gold or silver awards in these reviews, you're crying over nothing.
    Reply
  • erple2 - Monday, November 18, 2013 - link

    An and doesn't actually say that Apple makes the best products, though. That's why I like this site. I'm an Android fan, but I appreciate the analysis of the products reviewed here. Interestingly, Apple fans are at least as rabid as Android fans. They make the same criticisms to justify their positions - pointing out how stuttery Android ran in the old days. Andre fans counter with how iOS is missing critical features in version 4. Either way, they're both right and wrong at the same time. Ultimately, each fan bought in to one camp or the other. I bought in to the Google ecosystem, and came into the smartphone market late, so I went with Android. Other people have had an iPhone since 2007, and are firmly in the iOS camp.

    I can't even remember why I started writing this. Oh also Anand was pretty glowing of the new nexus 7 on this article. But if you've invested money in the iOS camp, then it appears that the mini retina is the way to go.
    Reply
  • zeagus - Monday, November 18, 2013 - link

    Possibly, just possibly a better user experience and good tablet apps? Reality has a pro Apple bias when it comes to tablets right now. Reply
  • RadarTheKat - Monday, November 18, 2013 - link

    Simple recognition that Apple is in a different class. All by itself. And Apple deserves that accolade given the detail and quality put into their products. Do you recall the delaminating issue with the first Nexus 7? That's a heck of a lot worse issue than the antenna issue on the iPhone 4 or the Apple Maps issues. I mean, the darn thing started coming apart! Reply
  • socio-statistical - Monday, November 18, 2013 - link

    So, basically, you are saying, either they SKEW their reviews into Fantasy-land, or you won't listen. Interesting viewpoint there... Reply
  • p_giguere1 - Saturday, November 16, 2013 - link

    1) Why would he "admit" an opinion as if it was an absolute fact? Anand clearly mentioned the Nexus 7 was a great option at the end and that it came to personal preference. Are you not satisfied he didn't say something like "You should suggest everybody you know a Nexus 7 over this because it's definitely a better buy for everyone"? What if that's a statement he disagrees with? You should review your definition of admission.

    2) The main thing the Nexus has going for it over an iPad is the price, and not everybody has a problem paying $400 for a tablet if they know they're getting high quality without compromises. Please don't allude first-time buyers necessarily have a low budget or low expectations. Their decision is sometimes more like "Should I get a tablet at all" rather than "What model should I get". They may feel only a truly good tablet would be worth trying to integrate in their current workflow/life which is currently fulfilled with other good gadgets. They need the tablet to be good enough to justify its frequent usage.

    3) The absolute quality of a product may have more importance to some than the quality/price ratio when comparing products that are all within one's budget. By your logic, why wouldn't one suggest an even cheaper tablet than the Nexus 7? Value is almost always better for cheap products, so where do we set the bar? Why would you not suggest, say a $129 Hisense Sero Pro? After all, it has a similar form factor, IPS display, decent specs and runs Jelly Bean and the same apps. Why would anybody pay the 78% premium for the Nexus 7 when a cheaper tablet does all the same things for cheaper? See what I'm doing here?

    Honestly you just seem mad Apple are getting the good reviews they deserve. This and the iPad Air are solid products. So is the Nexus 7. Can't be just accept that without turning it into a pissing contest?
    Reply
  • solnyshok - Saturday, November 16, 2013 - link

    I am the person who doesn't mind paying $400 for an uber 8" device. In fact, even EUR 400. However, at this price, iPad Mini Retina is a one huge glaring walking compromise. 16GB is not acceptable for a tablet at the end of 2013. In fact, the minimum memory I can live with now is 32GB for a phone and 64GB for a tablet. At 64GB, iPad Mini is 600 EUR here. I think I would rather have a much more reasonably priced LG G Pad 8.3 (EUR 350)+ 64GB Micro SDXC card(EUR 50) Reply
  • p_giguere1 - Saturday, November 16, 2013 - link

    "Über" is relative apparently. At the end if the day, you still picked a device that you thought had better a value rather than judging on quality alone. Not that it's a bad thing, but let's not act as if everyone had the same budget and call one device objectively better when its main selling point is its value despite being objectively worse in certain easily measurable aspects. Reply
  • ws3 - Saturday, November 16, 2013 - link

    So all you have to do is go buy your LG G Pad 8.3 and (hopefully) be happy with your purchase.

    Personally I don't need any more than 16GB on any mobile device. I've purchased 3 generations of iPhones and one iPad, and I've been satisfied with 16GB. Needless to say, I have had the option of going with higher flash sizes, but I haven't felt the need to do so.

    Therefore, you can go buy your LG and have your fun with it, while I will go buy my iPad Air and have my fun with it. Win-Win.
    Reply
  • BPB - Saturday, November 16, 2013 - link

    "The absolute quality of a product may have more importance to some than the quality/price ratio when comparing products that are all within one's budget. By your logic, why wouldn't one suggest an even cheaper tablet than the Nexus 7?"

    See my comment above. He called the Nexus "incredible" and "truly great". In my book that means really high quality. Show me a person who thinks that of the Hisense. I think comparing the Nexus 7 to the mini is comparing two high quality products. And one of them costs a lot less, at least for folks in my income bracket.

    Please understand, I have no problem with folks saying Apple products are good, really good. And I don't deny they are. I can't because I don't use them. The point in my original post is that if it's an Apple review at this site, it will be glowing.
    Reply
  • EnzoFX - Saturday, November 16, 2013 - link

    Glowing sure, and rightly so. The N7 review was also glowing. Some people just like to whine no matter what. They like to come on here and lead us all down a pathetic back and forth. It surprises me the number of people who entertain comments like these. I would not normally, but after all these... Why bother? Why read Anandtech if you don't like the facts they present... I don't really care to hear an answer... Reply
  • p_giguere1 - Saturday, November 16, 2013 - link

    Those "incredible" and "truly great" terms are relative to the competition and to our expectations, and quality level isn't as black and white as you make it sound.

    I'm sure that cheap Hisense tablet would have been considered high-quality if it had been released one year sooner. Just like the 2013 N7 probably won't be considered high-quality when you'll measure it against a 2014 N7, just like a 2012 N7 could hardy be called high-quality right now.

    The 2013 N7 was released (and reviewed) at a time when there was no Retina iPad mini. When the standard to beat was the regular iPad mini which had a relatively low-res display and an old SoC despite its higher price tag. Had the 2013 N7 be released right now, I'm sure the general tone reviewers would have had would have been a little different, because people's expectations would also have been higher just because the market has already changed since then.

    Anyway, why do selectively choose when the tone of reviewers matters? If Anand has a positive tone when reviewing the Nexus 7, that means it's an exceptional product that easily justifies its price tag compared to cheaper alternatives, yet when he does the same with the Retina iPad mini, it doesn't count and he's biased? What's the difference?
    Reply
  • Puberticus - Saturday, November 16, 2013 - link

    Well look at the bright side: we won't have to fret for long.
    Displays are already as good as the eyeball can see. So what's left making it thinner, lighter and last longer? Whatever.

    Again IMHO, I think the iPad Air is pretty much the end of the line as far as added value goes. If I'm wrong, I'll be pleasantly surprised.
    Reply
  • beggerking@yahoo.com - Monday, November 18, 2013 - link

    well, Anand had positive ton about Mac Air, which STILL HAS NO RETINA NOR TOUCHSCREEN display...

    in the mean time, everything else mid end or up has at least 1080p... even a Dell Venue Pro for $600 has 1080p with touch screen...
    Reply
  • angermeans - Sunday, November 17, 2013 - link

    I've read all of your comments to this point. Your making it sound as if the Nexus 7 and iPad mini are on equal grounds and because of this people should choose cost every time. If you were right I would agree (such as they both ran the same software), but your not and not even close. I've got the 2013 N7 and the new iPad mini with retina display sitting right next to me. Last year I had both the 2012 N7 and iPad Mini original. In all your comments you forget one glaring fact and that is Eco system. Android tablets (even at their absolute best such as the N7) are no where even close to iOS. When people want a tablet they sent great tablet optimized apps and you don't get even close to tablet apps on the Nexus 7 (or other android tablets). The android tablet Eco system is so behind iOS that they don't even deserve to be in the same sentence together, but they often are. Yes, the N7 is a great value and has great hardware (although nowhere near apples tablets, but ill leave hardware out of this comment for now), but it is nothing more than a giant phone with giant oversized android apps. One will get a much better lifetime value with an iPad over an android tablet. This is why apple absolutely dominates the tablet market despite costing much more and their dominance is the reason companies like google have been forced to release low cost devices in the first place as they simply cannot even compete. This won't ever change no matter the hardware until the android app situation gets better and I just don't see it happening anytime soon. You can't even get an optimized twitter tablet app and when you finally do then samsung gobbles it up as an exclusive. This doesn't happen on iOS and the constant OS updates even make it better. My nexus 7 sadly has sat 90% of the time (despite being a great value) because of the reasons (among others such as constant lag on android platforms). Android tablets are nothing more than media consumption devices whereas iPads are so much more. No reason to be sore about it and the fact that Ananda gave a fair review while not pointing out the severe gap In the two Eco systems shows his non bias and straight review of the hardware. Reply
  • akdj - Sunday, November 17, 2013 - link

    @Angermeans, so well and eloquently said. I own the Xoom, Note 2, and have had every iteration of iPad and iPhone (we have had a business for 22 years that has literally been transformed with the introduction of the iPad, it's 'Eco system' and the software available for productivity. We use them 60 hours a week in the field and they've replaced 70-80 pounds of gear we used for well over a decade and a half. I bought this year's Nex7 (I wasn't convinced, like Anand...that a retina or HiDPI screen would be included in this year's mini). Don't know why. I've been burned now twice...and while the Xoom still works fine for a few things (and as a 'Google' device was always up front to get updates), I can't get out of the Note contract fast enough (my daily driver is a 5s...my wife the iPhone 5). We bought it solely for the business and signing contracts and credit cards with Square. What a joke. We don't use it for either. In fact, for both contract signatures and credit card payments, the iPhone and iPad works faster and more efficiently
    I can't tell you how pissed off it makes you after downloading an app from the Play store only to see....'Not optimized for your device/tablet'. This is a phone app. Works just fine on the s4. Not the Note. Not the Nex 7. While the 2013 Nexus 7 is an incredible value with a phenomenal display and pretty decent/swift performance (TouchWiz is the Devil's UI!)---other than for surfing, email, maps or watching a movie, I find it useless in comparison with the iPad. It's wild to see such devoted Android fans jump in, take the time to comment, and attempt to discredit one of...if not the top tier of technological review teams on Al Gore's interwebs. I LOVE tech. I give them both a try. But just as Windows reigned supreme for a pair of decades when it came to software choice, the same is now try for iOS and tablet 'optimized' applications and software. Replacing FLIGHT BAGS! For crying out loud....Jep charts, ops guides and plates....40-50 pound commercial (& redundant with both pilot and F/O) pilot flight bags....history, replaced by a 1.3 pound iPad 2 (maybe some have upgrade to retina?).
    Doesn't matter WHAT you're into. There is 'an app for that'. In iOS. Not Android. Creative, photo/videography, writing, coding, gaming, productivity and 'office type suites', utilities and Topo maps....flight planning and GPS route following software, fuel calculators and guitar tuners, the list literally goes on forever! Jimi Hendrix? The Stones? Leonardo DaVinci in high resolution.....it's crazy the options that exist in iOS. And their intuitive nature.
    Android tablet apps in the other hand....other than Facebook and World Series of poker, I'm lost. Oh yeah, Evernote works out alright as well as Dropbox. There's. That.
    Reply
  • KoolAidMan1 - Sunday, November 17, 2013 - link

    akdj - The other mobile ecosystems aren't anywhere close. I use WP8 but have an iPad for my tablet because its library is so much better than WinRT and Android.

    The Nexus 7 is cheap but it does so little compared to the iPad. It is a toy in comparison. The Kindle is even more limited on top of having lower quality hardware. The less said about WinRT the better...
    Reply
  • RadarTheKat - Monday, November 18, 2013 - link

    He also forgot screen size (iPad mini is larger) and resale value (which means the overall cost of the iPad mini is not so far off from the N7 as the retail price suggests). Reply
  • RadarTheKat - Monday, November 18, 2013 - link

    And the whole cheaper can be better value falls apart with Apple products because of the high resale value based upon build quality and demand. So that iPad might actually, full cycle, cost no more than an initially cheaper competing tablet. Reply
  • Daniel Egger - Saturday, November 16, 2013 - link

    Not sure what you're referring to. I'm a WP user and I wouldn't switch to either Android (which quite frankly sucks totally in my eyes for various reasons) or iOS (because I tend to treat my phones as phone mainly and I expect nothing but the best voice quality and long standby times and best usability which quite frankly still sucks for all current smartphones but the Lumias still offer the best compromise of all -- I certainly don't need the features of an iPhone and I won't pay 4 times the price for the same value as a phone). On the other side my main workhorse is a MBP and there's no device I could be (and have been since 2001) more productive on than a Mac, I also have two iPod Touches for casual games and music and I'm looking forward to getting the new Mini as well (although I did buy a Surface RT some time ago which still really sucks for anything but Web browsing/Flash video watching and working with Office documents).

    Although Anand really appreciates Apple products for personal and professional I don't think this site has a particular strong bias towards them, especially given the flood of recent Android reviews by Brian that received glowing verdicts. Also there're plenty of reviews of displays reviews, windows laptops and misc hardware like PSUs, GPUs, games, etc. all of which are not in any way related to Apple products.
    Reply
  • Scannall - Saturday, November 16, 2013 - link

    The iPad is a much nicer device, and overall price is a wash. The ipad will still have great resale value in a couple years. The Nexus 7 will be a garage sale special. So upgrading will be cheaper, with the added benefit of using a better tablet. Reply
  • Brakken - Sunday, November 17, 2013 - link

    A first time purchase seems to indicate a second time purchase. Which means spending even more money.

    The wonderful thing about the HTC's with dr beat and the Apple devices is great sound and (not so much for the HTC) a great music player. Android doesn't natively have such things, which means searching fro something that works. I know, I've tried.

    And being at college and having to carry around a rather elongated thing that MUST have a physical keyboard for use, or a wonderfully misplacable OneNote item, seems like missing the point.

    If you don't (or your daughter?) appreciate being able to whip out a device, make some notes, wherever one happens to be, and then get back to the next situation, then I'm not sure why you are bothering to cast aspersions here.

    Failing to understand the pleasure of a product that was designed in a particular way, that has an integrated OS that functions remarkably smoothly (even on three year old devices!), and that such things cost more to develop and produce, simply means that Apple products are not for you (or your daughter?)

    Please be aware that there are several million people who have different values, and 'nice' isn't what this review is about. It's about what the latest in SoC can achieve and the benefits of an integrated soft/hardware approach can bring. Perhaps Google/Android/Motorola/Asus/Whomever will get there one day, but not soon, I think.
    Reply
  • melgross - Sunday, November 17, 2013 - link

    Have you not considered that he switched because their products actually are better? I think so. I've used many products over the years, but have always preferred Apple's. Reply
  • akugami - Sunday, November 17, 2013 - link

    I felt all of the important points were touched on. Anand mentions that the device is very pricey, especially compared to its closest competitor the Nexus 7 as well as other tablets. Anand also mentions flaws and I felt he touched upon any relevant ones. Lets be honest, Apple has built a very solid tablet that is arguably one of the best. It is up to the consumer to decide whether that price premium is worth buying the N7 or iPad Mini.

    You also mention that "Apple can do no wrong" in reference to the supposed blind love that Anand has for Apple products shows where you are coming from and shows you already have a bias against Apple. Furthermore, this is an iPad Mini review. This is not a tablet shootout. The reviewer does NOT need to compare multiple devices or even mention any other device.
    Reply
  • Mahadragon - Sunday, November 17, 2013 - link

    Apple sold 34 million iPhones in their last quarter, 9 million were sold in the opening weekend alone. Apple made $37 billion in revenue and are still the most valuable company in the world. You make it sound like the people at Anandtech are Apple fans. I have news for you, lots of people are Apple fans. Pull your head out of your behind. Apple has millions and millions of fans that buy their stuff every day.

    If Apple were some 2 bit company that made shoddy products then yes, I could understand your complaint about Anandtech being "biased" toward Apple products. That's not the case.
    Reply
  • zeagus - Monday, November 18, 2013 - link

    The love at AT is for well designed and performant technology. Apple nails this more often than not. The "Apple Love" here knows only the bounds of the facts. They get dinged for what they fuck up on. Reply
  • sundragon - Monday, November 18, 2013 - link

    As an owner of the 2012 and 2013 Nexus 7 and an owner of the new iPad Air, there is a vast difference. My 2012 was replaced 3x and the 2013 was replaced once because it had an issue.
    You get what you pay for
    2. The screen size difference between the Mini and 7 are a lot more than "almost identical" and the OS experience on a 7" display is horrible - it's not even close to being a "tablet experience" and feels like a large phone.
    3. Apps on iOS look much better and are better designed than on Android - Blame the devs because it's noticeable and I have both platforms. Some games (fonts and buttons) are unusable on the Nexus 7.
    4. I sold my Nexus 7 2013 because it just isn't there and I gave my 2012 to my niece and nephew.

    Ultimately the comparison of specs doesn't cut it for those of us who use both platforms. Plus the A7 runs circles around the Snapdragon S4... I may come back to Google in a few years but currently the Apps and experience just aren't fully baked. That's why Samsung puts 3-4GB of bloat skin to make it "acceptable".

    And before you go on about Open Source - None of the new Google apps are open source. Gmail, Calendar, Music, Movies, all the new Google apps are closed source... That's why every device is shipped with two email apps, the native android (open source that hasn't been updated in years) and Gmail. Google is slowly moving closed source for all their apps.

    P.S. People comment about how awful one platform is vs the other and they don't own the device they are critiquing - Which is absurd.
    Reply
  • Tetracycloide - Saturday, November 16, 2013 - link

    The last paragraph where he still lists the display as an advantage for the mini retina even though the PPI is basically identical? Not sure if that's a good illustration of the point you're trying to make. Reply
  • KPOM - Saturday, November 16, 2013 - link

    The iPad mini's screen is almost 43% larger with a virtually identical PPI, so in some respects it is an advantage. What amazes me is how so many Android fans harp on the iPhone's small screen size but treat a 43% screen area difference between Apple's 4x3 7.85" design and Google/Amazon's 16x9 7" design as if it's nothing. Reply
  • Graag - Saturday, November 16, 2013 - link

    The Ars review has a good image of the compromises you make using a nexus vs. a mini for web browsing in landscape; there are some significant disadvantages to a 16:10 aspect in a 7" device in that context. Reply
  • lilo777 - Sunday, November 17, 2013 - link

    But do they have a good image of the totally unacceptable compromises you make watching videos on iPad tablets? Reply
  • p_giguere1 - Sunday, November 17, 2013 - link

    It's mathematically impossible for a letterboxed video to appear smaller on an iPad mini (7.9" 4:3) than on a 7" 16:9 tablet like the Nexus 7, no matter the aspect ratio.

    A 16:9 video for example would have a 7.251" diagonal on an iPad mini and 6.815" diagonal on a Nexus 7.
    Reply
  • ws3 - Saturday, November 16, 2013 - link

    There's a lot more to a display than PPI, isn't there? Reply
  • socio-statistical - Monday, November 18, 2013 - link

    Ya gotta love the softball, rhetorical questions. Reply
  • gorskiegangsta - Saturday, November 16, 2013 - link

    Can't possibly be because Apple actually makes good, solid products, can it? No. It has to be due to a wider "Apple love" conspiracy. /s

    Honestly, irrational-Apple-hate syndrome is just as bad as an irrational-Apple-love one, and the former is what you seem to have.
    Reply
  • Graag - Saturday, November 16, 2013 - link

    >Honestly, irrational-Apple-hate syndrome is just as bad as an irrational-Apple-love one, and the former is what you seem to have.

    Not, it's worse. With irrational Apple love, at least your are irrationally loving a device *that you own*.

    With irrational Apple hate, you are irrationally hating a device that other people own.

    IOW, while it might be somewhat annoying for someone to go on and on about how much they love their car, phone, cat, etc., it is much less obnoxious than someone going on about how much they hate your car, phone, or cat.
    Reply
  • Puberticus - Saturday, November 16, 2013 - link

    So what makes an Apple fan?
    I'll tell you: product reliability-at least for me.
    My mac has been cranking along since 2006. Other than updating the hard drive I've never had a problem. Nor has it ever ever crashed. I have no virus software installed -yet I have never, ever had a malware problem. I honestly cannot say the same for my Windows system at work.

    Your mileage may vary of course, but it's been my experience that if you buy an Apple gadget it works consistently and for a long time.
    Reply
  • Brakken - Sunday, November 17, 2013 - link

    I was really disappointed last year when I first looked at the Mini: crappy screen and slow, slow processor. But then I ended up getting one, and was so impressed! A friend got the N1 v.1 and it was a great chance to compare.

    WHAT A JOKE!! I've owned three non-Apple devices and the N7 was more of the same, but wrapped in more hype. Thick, plasticy and cheap. Many go for the sales point, but after being there and doing that, I've had enough!

    N7 started running like it had a 386 in a few months, apps didn't scale up - just stretched out. Stock widgets were dull and let's state facts: Google vanilla has fewer functions than a skin from HTC or Samsung. No-no! You have to buy anything extra that's provided for free with a skin! Or download it from someone who wants full access to your contacts for a weather widget.

    Apple love is 11 outta 10 for reasons that will always remain outside of Fandroid perceptual filters due to the price. If you wish to buy a Chevvy, that's your deal. It really isn't up to you to trash someone who decides to buy a Honda. Or a Tesla.
    Reply
  • stevesup - Sunday, November 17, 2013 - link

    10/10. Didn't happen here. That will come from Wired UK, which just gave the iPad Air 10/10. The retina Mini just might have to be an 11. Reply
  • teng029 - Sunday, November 17, 2013 - link

    Then why don't you write your own review and find out for yourself? Reply
  • John2k13 - Monday, November 18, 2013 - link

    So you proudly admit you came here not to actually read the review an analysis with an open mind, which the author spent alot of time and effort writing, and provide specific, rational feedback, but instead to mindlessly mock and troll because the final assessment does not fit whatever anto-Apple ideology you may have, which has absolutely nothing to do with the objective quality of the product under question. You must live a sad, empty life to be so cynical and hateful, and to dismiss others because they don't share your vapid anti-Apple rhetoric. I, and everyone else who actually read the review actually learned something. Not the same can be said about your useless comment. Reply
  • zeagus - Monday, November 18, 2013 - link

    Came here to see how close to the top the troll comments were. Reply
  • darwinosx - Tuesday, November 19, 2013 - link

    Then you didn't read the review you are whining about. Reply
  • tech_boss99 - Wednesday, November 20, 2013 - link

    nvidia enter the market with their FIRST tablet and its still better than the ipad (as far as hardware goes) http://versus.com/en/nvidia-tegra-note-7-vs-apple-...
    i didnt really see any of this fanfare on your review of them!
    Reply
  • shadowii - Wednesday, November 20, 2013 - link

    Came here looking for someone bitching about their high scoring review. Found yours. Reply
  • Qbancelli - Saturday, November 16, 2013 - link

    Boy, This guy adores Apple! Reply
  • xinthius - Saturday, November 16, 2013 - link

    If a company makes good products, one is going to review them highly. Reply
  • lilo777 - Sunday, November 17, 2013 - link

    Especially when the company sends you sample devices for reviewing. Reply
  • tigmd99 - Saturday, November 16, 2013 - link

    Kinda like how he adores Nexus 4? Or Nexus 7? Blind enthusiasm on your part has clouded your judgement. Reply
  • michal1980 - Saturday, November 16, 2013 - link

    you must not have been here long enough. I'm still waiting for anand to change his name to apple Reply
  • tigmd99 - Saturday, November 16, 2013 - link

    Prove his bias. Reply
  • tigmd99 - Saturday, November 16, 2013 - link

    What has he said about either OS that is not true? Reply
  • Puberticus - Saturday, November 16, 2013 - link

    Seriously: if you don't like Apple gear and you weren't interested in a detailed review, why are you even commenting? Reply
  • pgari - Saturday, November 16, 2013 - link

    I found Anand reviews a lot more unbiased (if any) than most of the people criticizing him: as a minimum he recognizes the weakness on Apple products as well the competitors' strengths, no as some people here who demonize Apple and reject all its products blindly.
    Disclaimer: My smartphone is a Nexus 5, my tablet a Venue 8 Pro and my laptop a MBA
    Reply
  • tipoo - Saturday, November 16, 2013 - link

    Shame about the inferior display gamut and slower soc. Makes the choice between it and Air a bit muddier. Funny how when the first display comparisons went around the apple faithful thought it was a hoax, lol. Reply
  • solipsism - Saturday, November 16, 2013 - link

    For me it's not a deal breaker as I never use my iPad much. It's mostly for reading so I'm hoping the iPad Mini will be a better fit than the 10" variant.

    Overall that display is very impressive, but those displays on Amazon Kindle HGX and Nexus 7 are even more impressive when you consider their cost. Sure, they aren't profiting and use them to sell there other services unlike Apple who's model is to sell HW, but's still impressive. The only reason I haven't chosen them since I can read just fine on them is the awful 16:10 and 16:9, respectively, aspect ratio. 4:3 is considerably more ideal and I wish others would follow.
    Reply
  • teiglin - Saturday, November 16, 2013 - link

    Both of the Kindle Fire HDXs and the Nexus 7 are 16:10 (1920x1200 on the 7"-ers, and 2560x1600 on the HDX 8.9). Also the phrase "considerably more ideal" makes my brain hurt. As Brian once said, the battle for 4:3 is over and lost outside the iPad space (and LG phablets -_-)--even the iPhone gave up that ghost. I do miss 4:3 on the desktop though. Reply
  • solipsism - Saturday, November 16, 2013 - link

    1) The iPhone was never 4:3.

    2) "More ideal" is not the same as "ideal".

    3) There is obsolescing of aspect ratios as much you want to believe there is such a thing. There is only aspect ratios that are utilized for specific purposes and on a tablet 16:9 or 16:10 is not good for reading text, but 4:3 is. 16:9 is *more ideal* than 4:3 for video since it's closer to the common widescreen formats but most users don't spend the majority of their time watching videos.
    Reply
  • teiglin - Sunday, November 17, 2013 - link

    1) You're right, old iPhones were 3:2, but the point is that it gave up the fight against widescreen, just like other market segments.

    2) And I still take semantic issue with the idea of comparative ideal-ness--something is ideal, or it isn't. Something can be better or worse for a particular purpose, or closer to the ideal, but not more or less ideal.

    3) Either you're missing a "no" in your first sentence, or I'm very confused. Either way, aside from my semantic quibbles, I don't generally disagree with what you're saying--4:3 is generally better for interacting with text than 16:9/10. Nevertheless, the fact remains that 16:9 is the standard for the vast majority of displays sold today, no matter how much I miss my first desktop LCD with its 5:4 aspect ratio.

    What I find interesting in the discussion of aspect ratio is the lack of actual measurements. I mean, people mostly compare 7" tablets to the iPad mini, but the iPad mini's display is actually the same width as the 8.9" Kindle Fire's display (give or take a few hundredths of an inch). So maybe that should be the point of comparison for how much text you can display?
    Reply
  • solipsism - Sunday, November 17, 2013 - link

    1) Ideal is conception of perfection and everything is a relation to it. For instance, a 0.1 aspect ratio on a 9.7" display would give you a 0.97"x 9.65" display. Is that more or less ideal than 9.7" at 16:9" display for reading?

    2) Again, there is no obsolete aspect ratio. Simply because something is more commonly used doesn't mean it's not viable. If you think that is a measure of what everyone should be doing then iOS shouldn't be used.
    Reply
  • WaltFrench - Saturday, November 16, 2013 - link

    Interesting “use case” where you need pro-quality color and fastest-possible processing but are uninterested in the larger screen which more easily lets you see those photos or videos that you're doing all that detail work on. Reply
  • tipoo - Saturday, November 16, 2013 - link

    I don't need to do professional work to see the washed out colors. Reply
  • ws3 - Saturday, November 16, 2013 - link

    The choice between the retina mini and the air is only "muddier" if you're the kind of ding-dong who buys based on spec sheets.

    The choice between the air and the retina mini is simple: larger screen vs. lower weight. That's it. If you want a larger screen, you go air. If you want a lower weight, you go mini. Anything else is irrelevant unless you plan to do nothing with your tablet except run benchmarks and display tests.
    Reply
  • Puberticus - Saturday, November 16, 2013 - link

    Personally, after reading this review I think I'm probably going to get the Air. The weight difference isn't that significant and I think I'm going to appreciate the extra screen area.

    The size really isn't an issue because I would never consider putting the mini in a pocket in the first place.
    Reply
  • moep - Saturday, November 16, 2013 - link

    At this rate we’ll see the Haswell rMBP reviews sometime between christmas and new year, yay. Reply
  • Bob Todd - Saturday, November 16, 2013 - link

    Yeah, still hoping for a 13" rMBP review soon. And for an insta-ban on all of these asshats filling every Apple article with bias garbage. There are often interesting and insightful comments here from some, too bad I have to get several pages in to find them. Reply
  • allanwood - Saturday, November 16, 2013 - link

    Are the LCD and cover glass bonded? Reply
  • Morawka - Saturday, November 16, 2013 - link

    This, The air's display gap is very distracting to me, since the display is not laminated, the glass looks like it's a full quarter of a inch away from the display. (i know it's not, but glass bends light and makes it look even worse)

    They should laminate because it uses less power by having incell touch, and obviously thinner.
    Reply
  • Spoony - Saturday, November 16, 2013 - link

    The Mini has always had optically bonded glass and LCD, although I'd like to have it confirmed as well. I am looking to get an iPad to read magazines on. However, no buy this generation. If I'm paying this much for a device I want to get a full sRGB display with high accuracy. Which it seems the Mini is not. AND I want an optically bonded display stack, which the Air is not (for some bizarre reason). Sorry, Apple. My standards are very high. Maybe next generation when the 9.7" iPad gets an optically bonded display stack I'll reconsider. Reply
  • allanwood - Sunday, November 17, 2013 - link

    I just checked the iPad Mini w/ Retina at the store yesterday, and it doesn't have a bonded display, just like the first mini.

    The easiest way to check for a space between the LCD and cover glass is to look at a reflection of a light in the screen at an angle. If you see a strong reflection and a weaker one, it has a gap. One strong reflection means it doesn't.
    Reply
  • Spoony - Monday, November 18, 2013 - link

    I am quite sure that the original Mini had optically bonded glass and panel. Multiple technical publications including this one I believe have stated that the originally Mini is that way. Additionally, my limited in-person experience with the Mini have definitely shown it to be bonded. Reply
  • allanwood - Monday, November 18, 2013 - link

    Nope. This is from DisplayMate:

    "The Kindle Fire HD and and Nexus 7 both have their Cover Glass bonded directly to the LCD so there is no Air Gap like on the iPad mini, which has 3 widely separated reflections. The lack of an Air Gap helps to reduce the Reflectance for Ambient Light."
    Reply
  • versesuvius - Saturday, November 16, 2013 - link

    Apple is the company of few products and huge resources, with a brand name to boot (as in it will be bought no matter what). There are other companies with the same level or resources but they make many products. Samsung produces hundreds, perhaps thousands of individual products. Hundreds of phones. Apple produces one at a time. Nothing wrong with that, but while there is nothing that Samsung can learn from Apple, smaller companies could learn a lot from Apple. The way technology is advancing and getting cheap to the point of irrelevance, those companies could sink deadly bites into Apple, to the benefit of all around the world. Reply
  • KPOM - Saturday, November 16, 2013 - link

    Nice review as always. Thanks for confirming our suspicions about the color gamut. I have both the Air and retina mini right now and noticed a difference. I think I'll still keep the mini and return the Air, though. The portability trounces the display difference for me.

    I have noticed that both the Air and the Retina Mini seem twitchy with my Sprint Aircard (Sierra Wireless 803s). It is somewhat moot for me as I bought the LTE versions, but I noticed this behavior with two different iPad Airs and the retina mini. It struggles to connect in the first place, and frequently disconnects. I did not notice this at all with the previous mini, and when I tested it with the iPhone 5s it seemed to work fine. I suspect an incompatibility somewhere as both an extended chat session and Genius Bar trip couldn't resolve the issue (we tried numerous different rested and setting changes). I haven't tried it with the wifi-only version, but I'm curious if this is a larger issue and/or something that can be resolved through firmware. I also noticed the Air had a harder time than my PC at connecting to a hotel wifi network but it eventually did (I'll experiment with the mini next week). I haven't noticed any issues connecting to Apple Airport-driven wifi networks but still need to test it with non-Apple routers.
    Reply
  • KPOM - Saturday, November 16, 2013 - link

    Are there other reasons why Apple might have chosen a lower gamut display? Does it impact battery life or is it cheaper to produce? Or is it just one more reason to try to up sell the pricier Air model? Reply
  • Aenean144 - Saturday, November 16, 2013 - link

    Yield would be my bet. Reply
  • Morawka - Saturday, November 16, 2013 - link

    i'm guessing nobody could make this panel but sharp, since they own IGZO tech. Then again,color could be off because the glue is still wet lol...... Reply
  • nunomoreira10 - Saturday, November 16, 2013 - link

    The gamut is generally depended on the leds used in the baclight.
    higher gamut leds are less eficient and more expensive then lower gamut leds, so its a trade-off between battery life and quality.
    Reply
  • Morawka - Saturday, November 16, 2013 - link

    What do you know? anand doing another apple review. Reply
  • identity - Saturday, November 16, 2013 - link

    What do you, know another troll bitching. Reply
  • Morawka - Saturday, November 16, 2013 - link

    not trolling, i just find it convenient to point out anand doing all apple reviews despite having a dedicated mobile reviewer who has never done a full blown apple tablet or phone review (only previews) Reply
  • Friendly0Fire - Saturday, November 16, 2013 - link

    I'll also say that I like Anand's work a lot but I have absolutely zero interest in Apple stuff, which makes me sad because it means I rarely get to read something from Anand.

    Apple product reviews are rarely a surprise anyway, so they're not even particularly informative. Iterative improvements, if anything special arose it'll have been talked about for at least six months everywhere you look at.
    Reply
  • kyuu - Saturday, November 16, 2013 - link

    Exactly. Anand does great reviews, but his time is wasted doing these Apple reviews. The only part of the review that contains any information we didn't already know from the glut of Apple coverage everywhere is the display metrics.

    But, it's pretty plain Anand has a love affair with Apple at this point.
    Reply
  • ws3 - Saturday, November 16, 2013 - link

    I know it must be maddening for Apple-haters when every review of an Apple product is at least generally positive, but you know what Apple says: "We don't ship junk." Reply
  • Puberticus - Saturday, November 16, 2013 - link

    More junk! Ananda must review more junk! Only then will the masses be happy!!!
    Eyes rolling…
    Reply
  • volebamus - Saturday, November 16, 2013 - link

    So just curious, how many reviews in Anandtech did you actually read? I rarely actually look at the writer of these articles, but I notice that Anand in general does all of the flagship product reviews.

    How can you say you rarely get to read about Anand reviewing non-Apple products when he's involved with all the other manufacturers not just in Android, but Windows?
    Reply
  • volebamus - Saturday, November 16, 2013 - link

    No, I can tell you're trolling, and I created my account on Anandtech just to point it out. If you were anywhere close to objective, you'd look into the several categories of smartphones and tablets to see exactly how many reviews Anand does in mobile devices. Like I just did. Spoilers: he does MOST of the mobile reviews. Samsung, HTC, LG, Nexus, and even SURFACE out of all things. His name as reviewer is tied to all of them.

    But you notice a "trend" in him not letting the other reviewer do Apple tablet/phone reviews. Of course, this is completely ignoring the reviews that Anand does on ALL the other tablet/phone reviews as well.

    Your bias is showing.
    Reply
  • Morawka - Saturday, November 16, 2013 - link

    The tough pill for me to swallow is the expensive storage upgrades. apple charging $100 going from 16GB to 32GB is absurd. The nand probably cost them $5 extra on the Bill of Materials, and all the other companies are only charging $50 for nand upgrades.

    Additionally, $130 for LTE connectivity is a bit high, but no where near the magnitude of the NAND pricing. It's sad that apple fans have to pay $630 for 32GB LTE mini. If you maxed your ipad mini with retina's specs, it would cost $830!!!!! Almost a grand for a 7 inch tablet that will be obsolete within a year. And those who buy all the bells and whistles will lose their ass when they go to sell it next year and upgrade to the new device.
    Reply
  • Daniel Egger - Saturday, November 16, 2013 - link

    Every premium vendor does that with their premium products. No matter whether we're talking BMW, Apple or HTC. The HTC One Max costs 150€ more to go from 16GB to 32GB internal storage while the HTC One is a whopping 220€ more expensive when doubling from 32GB to 64GB; and those are definitely not cheap to begin with! With that in mind $100 can be viewed as a real bargain, especially for the jump from 64GB to 128GB. Reply
  • kyuu - Saturday, November 16, 2013 - link

    Bay Trail tabs seem to be charging $50 to go from 32GB to 64GB (32GB upgrade). While still more of a premium than it really should be for cheap eMMC NAND, it's a helluva lot better than the $100 for 16GB to 32GB (16GB upgrade) Apple is sticking with. Reply
  • Daniel Egger - Saturday, November 16, 2013 - link

    And which *premium* devices are you talking about? The 2 different vendors offering different memory configurations with BayTrail are Asus and Toshiba. Both are not premium and yet Toshiba is asking 50€ to go from 32GB to 64GB and ASUS even 80€ for the same. Dell, HP and Lenovo only offer one configuration at the moment.

    Anywhoo, while Apple is not cheap they're by far not the most expensive (see HTC, but there're other examples as well) and they're very consistent in their pricing and go all the way up to 128GB.
    Reply
  • kyuu - Saturday, November 16, 2013 - link

    Huh? I didn't use the word "premium" in the context of a device being nice or not, so I don't know why you're bringing it up that way. The build quality of many of the Windows tabs are equal to, if not better than, the iPad anyway.

    I'm actually not aware of any Win8.1 tabs that don't have different memory configurations, and none of them charge $100 for 16GB of NAND, or even for 32GB of NAND. I don't understand what you're trying to get at. I couldn't care less if Apple goes up to 128GB of NAND when they're charging $300 for ~$20 worth of NAND.

    Also, it's certainly not "consistent" to charge $100 for 16GB of NAND, then $100 for 32GB of NAND, then $100 for 64GB of NAND.
    Reply
  • akdj - Sunday, November 17, 2013 - link

    These aren't SanDisk Best Buy SD cards they're shipping. Look at the pricing on decent flash memory, IE, CompactFlash. All manufacturers using real NAND are paying many more dollars than 5 per doubling of capacity. Probably with Windows, the OS and it's bloat take UP all the NAND....and I'm not sure the world you're living in, but there's not a single Win8.1 tablet that comes close to the build quality....of even the earliest of iPads. The new Air and rMini....works of engineering art. Top shelf. Doesn't get ANY better. Certainly not Win 8.1 tablets. Sorry. Reply
  • Morawka - Sunday, November 17, 2013 - link

    Nand at these capacities is dirt cheap. Think of how many 16GB chips are in a 128GB Consumer SSD? 8 of them. And the ssd's MSRP is $119 and included in that cost is a storage controller, casing, PCB, and of course, NAND.

    When you pay for a apple nand upgrade, your just paying for more nand, period.
    Reply
  • kwrzesien - Monday, November 18, 2013 - link

    Your right, they pay WAY more. BOM increase for 32GB over 16GB is $13! That's over double $5!

    /s
    Reply
  • RadarTheKat - Monday, November 18, 2013 - link

    And how much is the Surface keyboard, without which the device is not very usable? Talk about gouging your customers! Reply
  • Puberticus - Saturday, November 16, 2013 - link

    Ever bothered to see what the speed of those chips are? I think you'll be shocked. Apple isn't shipping crap. Reply
  • kyuu - Monday, November 18, 2013 - link

    I've looked before and haven't been able to find any reports about the speed of the NAND Apple uses, since, y'know, there's no way to benchmark it on Apple's locked-down and functionally gimped OS.

    Regardless of whether it's good NAND or not, it's still $5-$10 worth of NAND.
    Reply
  • Morawka - Sunday, November 17, 2013 - link

    Here in America going from a HTC One 32GB to a HTC One 64GB is only $70 more. The 64GB version was supposed to be a AT&T Exclusive from my understanding. Just view their website if you dont believe me.

    Whoever your buying from is gouging prices. lol
    Reply
  • solipsism - Saturday, November 16, 2013 - link

    Or you can save $100 by going with a smaller capacity device. Apple will make their margins regardless so what you're really saying is that they should 1) not make the iPad Mini only start at $299 and 2) they shouldn't even offer the lower capacity options because at $5 increments for doubling of capacity (laughable) it's only $15 between 16GB and 128GB.

    The fact is companies determine the entire line to figure how to maximize sales, margins and profits, not just an individual model, which is something you should understand even if you haven't taken a single economics course.
    Reply
  • kyuu - Saturday, November 16, 2013 - link

    Why the hell should the end consumer care about that? $100 for $5 worth of NAND is a rip-off. The end. Nobody cares about the ways in which Apple seeks to pad their already absurd profit margins.

    And yes, they could very well move their base model up to 32GB, like a lot of the rest of the market.
    Reply
  • solipsism - Saturday, November 16, 2013 - link

    The consumer (not sure why included the word "end" in there) should buy the product that best fits their needs. The consumer shouldn't say "Hey, cheap NAND is only $5 for 16GB so I shouldn't have to pay anymore for faster and/or reliable NAND that is included as part of a vendor's product."

    What you have done is foolishly expect that capacity should be sold to you at cost without any other consideration, the most egregious of which is thinking the price points should be defined by *you* and not the vendor.

    People like you sicken me. You think it's up to you to dictate the terms of another company. You care nothing for the free market. You actually wrote, "Nobody cares about the ways in which Apple…" without once considering that Apple cares about their profits and that it's their product which gives the right to sell it as they see fit, yet instead of saying, "This isn't the product for me." you instead think they owe you something when they can't even keep them in stock.

    It's their product and their price points. If you don't like it, don't buy it. It's really that simple.
    Reply
  • Puberticus - Saturday, November 16, 2013 - link

    Yep. You did it in a nutshell. The poor guy definitely needs a pinch. Reply
  • kwrzesien - Monday, November 18, 2013 - link

    I think our perception of a premium product being obsolete because it fills up 16GB of NAND is important to Apple if they want to keep being a premium product. It not only frustrates users but it limits the sale of the content (apps/music/video) that consumes that space. Don't they want it to just work? Nevermind needing over 3GB free to update the OS. Reply
  • Daniel Egger - Saturday, November 16, 2013 - link

    Why pay $3000 for a better engine in the car when the production costs are roughly the same? Reply
  • kyuu - Saturday, November 16, 2013 - link

    I wouldn't. Generally, better engines do in fact cost more to produce, though, and generally there are more differences between two models of car than just their engine. Reply
  • RadarTheKat - Monday, November 18, 2013 - link

    You are reading this wrong. Can you build a 128GB tablet in your garage with the quality of an iPad? Given that even global electronics vendors like Samsung, Asus, and others can't, I doubt you can either. So at $829, the top end iPad mini with retina display, 128GB of memory, and LTE connectivity.

    Start with that model, which is a computing miracle compared with anything the world could produce just three years ago, and then you'll see that Apple SAVES you $100 if you're willing to take that same miracle with half the memory. LOL!

    Hey, but thanks for playing!
    Reply
  • RadarTheKat - Monday, November 18, 2013 - link

    * So at $829, the top end iPad mini with retina display, 128GB of memory, and LTE connectivity is a steal! Reply
  • Klug4Pres - Saturday, November 16, 2013 - link

    1GB RAM for a 64-bit CPU of this calibre is also an insult, and will mean that this thing will choke on many workloads. It will also mean that come IOS 8 or 9, it will likely be unuseable. Oh well, just drop another $500 on a 2GB RAM, 32GB version next year. Reply
  • Daniel Egger - Saturday, November 16, 2013 - link

    "1GB RAM for a 64-bit CPU of this calibre is also an insult"

    Nonsense, just because you need 2GB of RAM on Android to make it run smoothly doesn't mean that every vendor using a different OS needs to do the same.

    "It will also mean that come IOS 8 or 9, it will likely be unuseable."

    You clearly have no idea what you're talking about. Never in the history has Apple dropped the ball on delivering a decent user experience on older devices that quick. Also if you don't like the upgrade then don't upgrade...
    Reply
  • Klug4Pres - Saturday, November 16, 2013 - link

    Brian and Anand discussed low-memory issues on the latest gen Apple products in their recent live show - processes get killed off and Safari is a huge memory hog.

    Don't take my word for it - listen to the podcast. They also express disappointment with the 1GB RAM.
    Reply
  • Puberticus - Saturday, November 16, 2013 - link

    I agree if you're writing slop. But in this case, 1 GB is totally adequate. On the android side, not so much. Reply
  • ws3 - Saturday, November 16, 2013 - link

    Why will an iPad Air or retina mini be "obsolete" within a year?
    Will they stop working? Will they stop getting OS updates?
    Reply
  • Puberticus - Saturday, November 16, 2013 - link

    Apple is not selling anything that's "too expensive."
    Where were you when the teacher talked about demand curves…?
    Reply
  • RadarTheKat - Monday, November 18, 2013 - link

    Have you ever priced BMW wheels? We;come to the real world! Reply
  • stringstream - Saturday, November 16, 2013 - link

    I'm seeing the first page notes the old iPad Mini still starts at $329 - I believe it starts at $299 now. Reply
  • Elwe - Saturday, November 16, 2013 - link

    Agreed; the base model is now priced at $299. Reply
  • Abelard - Saturday, November 16, 2013 - link

    I bought an iPad mini last year. I'm happy with my purchase, even though the screen is kinda grainy. This new display looks killer, though. Reply
  • andy o - Saturday, November 16, 2013 - link

    Goddamit, generally speaking I'm an Android guy, but been eyeing the mini cause of the power and iOS is just simply better at audio recording. But the prices are all over the place. $100 for a 16GB increase, and also for a 64GB increase? $130 for cellular connection? Oh, and if you want GPS and compass, have to pay that $130. Reply
  • ws3 - Saturday, November 16, 2013 - link

    So buy the base model and see if it fits your needs. if not, either return it or sell it and then either upgrade or switch vendors. It's just not as difficult as you are making it. Reply
  • nedjinski - Saturday, November 16, 2013 - link

    Once again the Kindle HDX is left out of the comparison - even as a reference device.

    We can only speculate as to why.
    Reply
  • solipsism - Saturday, November 16, 2013 - link

    Why would it be a reference device if they haven't yet completed a review?

    You do know that Anand was given an iPad Mini 2 for testing but was he given a Kindle Fire HDX? Reviews take time, especially ones by AnandTech for which I am thankful. Let's not push the last bastion of thorough tech journalism into an Engadget-like blog site.

    There is also the issue of the Kindle Fire being the AOL Online of the tablets world. As nice as the HW is I'd definitely go for an actual Android tablet than the Kindle Fire which on this site seems to be the common theme when I read how the iPad isn't "a real tablet." If the iPad isn't a real tablet then the Kindle Fire definitely isn't.
    Reply
  • nedjinski - Saturday, November 16, 2013 - link

    Fine - we'll believe it when we see it.
    As to the KF being the AOL of tablets - well that's the point actually as the HDX models seem to be rocking the boat pretty hard to break that image. There seem to be a lot of assumptions made about the new HDX tabs. I look forward to a real world shoot-out.
    Reply
  • teiglin - Saturday, November 16, 2013 - link

    The speculation leads us to an easy conclusion though--Anand has never used a Kindle Fire HDX. I do wish he'd mention it anyway as it is an interesting player in this field--especially the 8.9, which doesn't really have any competition in its size class.

    Anand, get on Amazon to sample you some HDXs! They look like solid tablets in most ways (blue light bleed or no).
    Reply
  • huzzyz - Saturday, November 16, 2013 - link

    First off, I love android for its ease of use and customization the very reason I love my Mac mini and my MBA, OSX "for me" gives me a lot more to customize. That being said. The simple reason I cannot connect an iOS device at anytime, anywhere (other than 5 pre-authorised devices) and just transfer files is also the single reason I will never invest in an iOS device it bottoms down to ease of use. Frankly iOS is too sandboxed for its own good. The iPad mini looks great, performs very well and much powerful that the compared Nexus 7, granted but thats all it is. Reply
  • BGQ-qbf-tqf-n6n - Saturday, November 16, 2013 - link

    Sorry, joined just for this comment.

    Pre-Authorization is only required to sync *purchased* iTunes content, not files in general.

    You can transfer files between apps over iTunes USB file sharing without using one of your 5 authorization slots. You do however need to use an app which supports it (GoodReader for example), and "trust" the computer to transfer data over USB (you can trust an unlimited number of computers).
    Reply
  • Puberticus - Saturday, November 16, 2013 - link

    You're missing the broader picture here. There is a reason for all of that. Malware. DOD issued a report recently that said that 80%+ of all the phone/tablet malware out there was android-based.
    None of us like sandboxing. But keep in mind there's a reason for it.
    Reply
  • kyuu - Saturday, November 16, 2013 - link

    Any chance you guys are going to review the Dell Venue Pro 8, Lenovo Miix 2, or any of the 8" Win8.1 tabs? Reply
  • BPB - Saturday, November 16, 2013 - link

    The Asus T100 was reviewed a month ago. Reply
  • kyuu - Saturday, November 16, 2013 - link

    The T100 is not an 8" device. Reply
  • solnyshok - Saturday, November 16, 2013 - link

    Previous mini was unreadable in sunlight. What about this new display? Reply
  • solipsism - Saturday, November 16, 2013 - link

    If it's gotten better I wouldn't imagine it's by much since they didn't laminate the glass to the display. That space may allow too much light to bounce around. It looks like the Kindle Fire HDX looks like it's the best tablet for outdoor viewing on the market today. Reply
  • R0H1T - Saturday, November 16, 2013 - link

    Not unless Ballmer or Gates sponsor these reviews ala Apple, also AT should really post these as sponsored content so as not to sway potential Android/Win8 buyers towards these overpriced fancy toys [: Reply
  • Puberticus - Saturday, November 16, 2013 - link

    Are you insinuating that Apple sponsored this review? If so, sources please.
    Sigh, trolls do what they got to do…
    Reply
  • ISwearImCool - Saturday, November 16, 2013 - link

    The comment section on this site borders on Autistic. Anand likes iOS. He says explicitly, it's a matter of personal preference. He suggests the Nexus 7 at the end of the review. What more do you people want?! Reply
  • Graag - Saturday, November 16, 2013 - link

    They want validation for their status as tech geeks.
    If the unwashed masses can just buy Apple and have class-leading stats, it undercuts tech wannabees' claim to special knowledge. That's the real issue, and it bothers them that the most sophisticated review site on the web keeps discovering ways in which Apple is good.
    That's the reason why you don't see Apple users spamming the comments of Android device reviews with similar complaints.
    Reply
  • evonitzer - Saturday, November 16, 2013 - link

    Um, what? Android v Apple is not a one way street. You new to comments? Reply
  • kyuu - Saturday, November 16, 2013 - link

    You're claiming Apple users don't troll the comments on articles about Android devices? That's completely untrue. Are you new to the internet?

    Your pseudo-psychological analysis is way off base, as well.
    Reply
  • Graag - Saturday, November 16, 2013 - link

    I'm claiming Apple users don't troll the Android reviews on Anandtech. Because it is true; look at AT's Android reviews and you won't find anything similar to the flying monkey squad that waits to swoop in and attack the Apple reviews, users, and devices.

    If you have a better theory for the compulsive need certain Android and Windows users have to troll the comments of all of AT's Apple reviews, I'd be happy to hear it. Perhaps you have received an actual diagnosis from a qualified therapist?
    Reply
  • akdj - Sunday, November 17, 2013 - link

    I frequent about a half dozen tech sites a say. A couple specific to iOS/Android. As well as Anand. I'm curious if it's YOU that's 'new to the internet'? No. Anand's Android reviews and comment sections are actually very friendly and without iOS interjection or conjecture based on 'mine's better than yours' bullshit. In fact, I find the same on the two Android forums I visit. AndroidCentral and XDA. Neither have routine iOS/iPhone/iPad users spreading their drivel
    ....in fact. With almost 200 comments, have you noticed that you're one of maybe three or four people accusing Anand of bias? Arguing objective date? Actually taking the time out of your day to post about something you've got no passion or appreciation for? Might wanna get out of that basement. Feed your spider, move out of mom's place....and start breathing through your nose, too.
    Reply
  • Puberticus - Saturday, November 16, 2013 - link

    You put that very well. I agree.
    It's almost pathological -the way you see android and Windows users who would never in a million years go near an Apple device, immediately flock to an Apple review site. I've never known quite what to make of it.

    Conversely, Apple fans apparently just don't give a damn. I guess they figure it's not their worth their time to criticize anything.
    Reply
  • KoolAidMan1 - Sunday, November 17, 2013 - link

    Fandroids are very vocal and very insecure. Saying that Apple has great hardware and iOS has great apps sets them off in ways that make console fanboys look sane. Reply
  • doubledeej - Saturday, November 16, 2013 - link

    Never trust a review from someone who relies on getting hardware from the manufacturer. In order to keep new devices coming they have to write nothing but overwhelmingly positive reviews, especially if it is for an Apple product -- we've seen many times in the past where reviewers are cut off from future Apple products when they write less-than-stellar product reviews.

    If you want a fully honest review, you have to seek out those that buy the hardware outright. It's just a fact. Reviews of products provided by the manufacturer just can't be trusted, whether it is an Apple product or from someone else.

    While I really like Anand, and I will be buying an iPad Mini with RD, this review (like that of the iPad Air) is missing any significant critiques of the device. Any proper review will have both the pros and cons. And a quick two sentence mention of a competitor's product doesn't count as a con. A proper review would say "this is why you should get the device" but would also contrast it with "here is why you shouldn't get the device." It's like what you'd do in a debate class... weigh both the positives and negatives. This, like many other Apple product reviews, is pretty much missing the latter entirely. If this was taken as 100% honest, there is no meaningful reason for anyone NOT to buy an iPad Mini with Retina Display. Not even those that can't afford it, or maybe have already invested into another ecosystem. You get the impression that this device is basically perfect for everyone. While it may be perfect for some portion of the population, it just isn't going to be perfect for everyone.

    Here's to hoping that future reviews will be more objective...
    Reply
  • iLovefloss - Saturday, November 16, 2013 - link

    Yeah, look at the glowing review AnandTech has given the R9 290 and R9 290X. They totally glossed over any fault within those cards because AMD has been bankrolling AnandTech (they even have a dedicated AMD section on the site).

    Hey, maybe you should get over yourself. Anand has given his opinion of the device. That's what a review is. He even included some objective information. He doesn't gloss over any significant fault of the device. He likes it. If you don't like it, that's your opinion. But don't start whining because Anand didn't stop to wonder how random people on the Internet will feel about every feature of the device.

    Do you people who always complain about objectivity or subjectivity in these reviews actually know what reviews, subjectivity, and objectivity are?

    You can't have a tech review without a significant degree of subjectivity. These aren't scientific papers. The author of any review will have to insert his or her values and (subjective) judgements on the device they're reviewing. Instead of whining about this, how about looking towards a reviewer who shares your values?
    Reply
  • iLovefloss - Saturday, November 16, 2013 - link

    Seriously, how do you expect Anand to be any more objective than he already is? Discard his own opinions about the device completely? If he did that, then why bother reading the review. Just take a look at his pretty graphs.

    You, of course, probably mean neutrality when you say objectivity, right? You want him to be unbiased or appear so. Well, he is. Anand was pressed to review and no one forced/coerced his Final Words. He was just genuinely impressed with the device. He prefers iOS and Apple products. Given their performance and his own subjective feelings, he feels like the iPad Mini w/ Retina Display offers a good experience that is worth the money. He gives his reasons for his feeling, and he offers numbers and other objective measurements to back up/reinforce his general impression of the device. That's a review. You're complaining that he doesn't spend enough time complaining about a device he genuinely likes.

    "If this was taken as 100% honest, there is no meaningful reason for anyone NOT to buy an iPad Mini with Retina Display. Not even those that can't afford it, or maybe have already invested into another ecosystem. You get the impression that this device is basically perfect for everyone."

    I'm sorry if that what was you taken out of the review. It is easy to call you intellectually dishonest, but I feel you're really just clueless. Read Anand's Final Words. He implied that if you prefer Android to iOS then you should check out the Nexus 7. He implied with this implication (implication inception, mutha fuckas) that your feelings on Android and iOS comes down to personal preference.

    If you took everything this review as 100% truth, you'd think that the iPad Mini with Retina Display is a good tablet for Anand. You'll also think that whether you like the Nexus 7 or iPad Mini with Retina Display better would be left up to whether you prefer Android or iOS.

    Reading reviews isn't hard! You just need a fourth grade level of reading comprehension.
    Reply
  • doubledeej - Monday, November 18, 2013 - link

    You obviously didn't read my full comment. "...I will be buying an iPad Mini with RD."

    If you want to see what a real review looks like go take a look at the on on Ars Technica. They still praise the device, but they also include the cons as well. I'm not asking for a negative review, just an honest one.
    Reply
  • ruggia - Saturday, November 16, 2013 - link

    so you are telling me TheVerge got cut off from Apple because they were not praising their iDevices enough? Reply
  • solipsism - Saturday, November 16, 2013 - link

    They gave the Retina iPad Mini a 9.3 out of 10. Sounds like high praise to me. Reply
  • ws3 - Saturday, November 16, 2013 - link

    So the iPad Mini Retina gets good reviews on every site? Maybe that means it's a good product. Reply
  • solipsism - Sunday, November 17, 2013 - link

    It's the best product for my needs even though other, cheaper tablets that sell at a lot less volume do have better color gamut and higher PPI. Reply
  • ruggia - Saturday, November 16, 2013 - link

    yes and yet, they no longer receive pre-release review units Apple anymore. Reply
  • ruggia - Saturday, November 16, 2013 - link

    *from Apple Reply
  • solipsism - Sunday, November 17, 2013 - link

    the terms "yet" and "because" are very different between your two comments. Reply
  • pliablemoosethebanned - Sunday, November 17, 2013 - link

    No one knows for sure why The Verge doesn't get Apple sponsored review units any longer (they're not talking), but it's likely Josh's rant about iOS 7 violated the NDA they signed. Reply
  • cheinonen - Sunday, November 17, 2013 - link

    Yeah, so I'll chime in on this. Without samples, review sites won't exist. As to every concern people have over those, they really aren't valid.

    - "If you don't give them a good review they won't send stuff anymore." Fine, that's a company shooting themselves in their own foot. No more reviews of their stuff, no more publicity, nothing.
    - "Companies will rig samples." And if they do, they wind up getting caught, and the fallout is much worse than if their product was bad to start.

    Would it be nice to be Consumer Reports and go out and buy everything? Sure, but they're in financial trouble now. Can I afford to go buy $1,500+ in monitors every month to do a review? No. And reviews of displays from NEC or 4K monitors would never happen as that's unaffordable. You'd wind up getting your reviews from a single site that can afford them instead of a huge swath of them.

    So if you read a site that never says anything negative (and I don't read a LOT of audio sites for this reason), then stop reading it. But perhaps do a bit of research before you accuse everyone of being on the take and biased.
    Reply
  • doubledeej - Monday, November 18, 2013 - link

    Companies don't have to keep the products they buy (unless they destroy them, obviously). They can resell them for a minimal loss after they're done.

    The system we have for reviews is flawed. There is implied (if not real) pressure from companies to write a good review when they provide a product for you. Many companies (including Apple, BTW) will contact a reviewer after a bad review and chew them out for being less than flattering. It absolute happens. It is well documented. It can easily lead to incomplete reviews at best and outright dishonesty at the worst.

    In the case of the iPad Mini with Retina Display, go take a look at the review at Ars Technica. It is the most unbiased one I've seen, while still being very favorable.
    Reply
  • Death666Angel - Saturday, November 16, 2013 - link

    "The face of the tablet is marked by an asymmetric bezel"
    Looks pretty symmetrical to me: the left and right bezel is the same size and the top and bottom bezels look the same size as well. :)
    Reply
  • kyuu - Saturday, November 16, 2013 - link

    Not sure if you're being serious or not, but Anand is obviously referring to the fact that the bezels aren't of equal thickness on all four sides of the device, as they generally are on tablets. Reply
  • piroroadkill - Saturday, November 16, 2013 - link

    Does this overpriced shiny shit really do it for anyone anymore? I mean, come the fuck on.. Reply
  • ws3 - Saturday, November 16, 2013 - link

    It does everything it needs to do. And overpriced for people like you is not overpriced for other people. That's what makes the market free. Reply
  • MarcSP - Sunday, November 17, 2013 - link

    WS3: "It does everything it needs to do"
    Like real on screen multitasting or multi user accounts. Oh wait!
    Don't panic!, it's obvious that if it doesn't have those things is because it does not need them (until it gets those things. Then they will be a MUST for any tablet).

    WS3: "And overpriced for POOR SCUM like you is not overpriced for ARISTOCRATS (like me)"
    You meaning is conveyed much better now, hehe :-P

    BTW, am I the only one that every time I write "scum" I think of "SCUMM"? :-D
    Reply
  • ws3 - Monday, November 18, 2013 - link

    If you need two apps on screen at the same time or multiple user accounts, then don't buy an iPad. It's just that simple.

    Value is always a subjective decision. If you don't want to pay what Apple asks for an iPad, then don't buy it. Why would you care if other people do want to pay what Apple asks for an iPad?
    Reply
  • MarcSP - Monday, November 18, 2013 - link

    Of course, "don't buy a product that can't do what you need". I think we all can agree with that golden rule. Still, many people will buy iPad because they don't know anything else or even because it is "what my friends are buying" :-]

    My point was that iPad has many compromises, as any product (it is impossible to do everything for everyone all the time, you must make choices when designing anything, according to the present constraints), but some reviewers try to make it look like it's the PERFECT product (or almost). Even if we understand the choices Apple made for the harware and software, still we can see room for improvement in several areas.

    And do you mean that iPad would NOT benefit from having real multitasting or user accounts? Do you mean it is better it doesn't have? Maybe the real MT would be a problem for the present (outdated?) UI, but why not have multiple users accounts? In many homes the iPad is the family iPad. Why be forced to mix children apps with Infinifty Blade, your email with your wife's email, and her period tracking app with your footbal app.... you get the idea. :-)

    Each person is free to use his money as he pleases. I just found funny the "people like you" thing you wrote. That expresion has been used many times in history, usually before bad things start happening, hehe :-)
    Reply
  • RadarTheKat - Monday, November 18, 2013 - link

    If you want to share an iPad with your child, you are signing up to virtually never have use of it yourself. The child will monopolize it and never give it back. Of course, you can limit the child's time with the device, but you'll still have times when the child expects to have his/her scheduled time with it when you also want to use it. If you REALLY can afford to have a child, meaning you've established yourself in life before having kids, then for crying out loud, get separate iPads; one for the kids to share with kid stuff on it and another for yourself with your stuff on it. Trust me, you'll thank me for this bit of advice. Reply
  • MarcSP - Monday, November 18, 2013 - link

    Your advice to turn children into egoistic little kings is quite interesting. Spending 500$ so you don't have to teach (now) to your 4 or 5 year old child how to share and how to cope with frustration (you can't do what you want all the time) seems not just a waste of money but a ticket to a quite rough time when the child becomes a spoiled teenager (probably too late to fix the issue). Enjoy :-P.

    Aside from that, it is a fact that many families do have a family iPad . No matter how you think the world should be. Many beacuse they really don't have 500$ or more to waste (not spend, waste), others simply because they don't see the need for a 5 year old to have his own tablet (or even think that it can be harmful in some way).
    Reply
  • beggerking@yahoo.com - Monday, November 18, 2013 - link

    it doesn't do shit other than playing simple game App and very simple apps.

    for the same price or less, i could get a Bay Trail Tablet / laptop that runs full OS, run all softwares as well as emulate android apps. same battery life, more memory, faster CPU, include a physical keyboard etc

    Soon, IOS will go back to where it belonged: on a phone. ipad will disappear faster than netbooks.

    the new tablet will be bay trail running windows 8.

    mark my word.
    Reply
  • WaltFrench - Saturday, November 16, 2013 - link

    Looks like others compared the mini to the Kindle, but it also bears note that the mini has about 36% more screen area (if I read the specs right) than the Nexus that Anand notes is a strong competitor. If you're talking about squeezing it into a coat-pocket, or playing the specs game, widescreen is a fine way of pumping up the diagonal without having as much area to illuminate; for more general work many of us would prefer being able to see the screen details a few inches farther from our noses. Reply
  • Bone Doc - Saturday, November 16, 2013 - link

    Thank you Anand for another comprehensive review! Yours is one of a kind, and often quoted by other reviewers. Keep up the good work, and I'm sure by now, you've developed a thick skin against the whiners out there :). Reply
  • pav1 - Saturday, November 16, 2013 - link

    I wonder what technology the screen of the Mini & Air uses, eg. IGZO LTPS. I wish Anand could write a review contrasting various screens ( Kindle Fire HDX, Nexus 7, Samsung Note, Nokia) & current display technologies/vendors. Thanks in advance! Reply
  • blewyn - Saturday, November 16, 2013 - link

    What about speaker volume ? I'd like my mini to be a bit louder than it is....any change with the new mini ? Reply
  • Streamlined - Saturday, November 16, 2013 - link

    Please stop using old benchmarks for the ipad 4!!! They are all about 40% worse than the ipad 4 under ios 7. Reply
  • Tehk17 - Saturday, November 16, 2013 - link

    Apple did a lot of JS benchmark target optimizations with iOS7. iOS6 is much more accurate. Reply
  • ws3 - Saturday, November 16, 2013 - link

    They are both accurate. The results under iOS6 are the results under iOS6, while the results under iOS7 are the results under iOS7. Reply
  • Tehk17 - Saturday, November 16, 2013 - link

    Not compared to Android. Reply
  • Crocography - Saturday, November 16, 2013 - link

    The mini is too wide and both machines are far too slippery. It is these ergonomics where they fail. Certainly most of the Android tablets and the Dell Venue Pro 8 (although since it is a real computer it isn't a fair comparison) have better materials and dimensions to hold. Reply
  • ws3 - Saturday, November 16, 2013 - link

    Most of the Android tablets have much cheaper construction and have an aspect ratio best suited for viewing HD videos. For anything other use the iPad's aspect ratio is better. Reply
  • BearT - Saturday, November 16, 2013 - link

    Liked the article: 1. The display of iPad mini w/ Retina is superb, and its size dwarfs that of others in this category (e.g. Nexus 7). This matters to me as I read magazines in portrait mode. 2. I tried the browsers from a number of devices. The "Reader" feature of Safari is a must, if you loathe online ads as much as I do. 3. The high fidelity of the FaceTime "audio" is uncanny; one has to try it to appreciate the "pin-drop" sound across the globe, okay, just the long-distance. The normal phone audio doesn't come close in clarity! Reply
  • Renasena - Saturday, November 16, 2013 - link

    No TouchID no thanks I'll wait till next year. Reply
  • ws3 - Saturday, November 16, 2013 - link

    I'm pretty sure Tim Cook and Jony Ive both spontaneously started weeping tears of shame and remorse when you posted that. Reply
  • psyside1 - Sunday, November 17, 2013 - link

    @Renasena ,
    No TouchID no thanks I'll wait till next year.

    ROFL!!!!!
    Reply
  • kwrzesien - Monday, November 18, 2013 - link

    Do you want retina mini's or not? TouchID is constraining the 5s production, and retina displays are constraining the mini. Why risk it? And yes, there is next year...TouchID, laminated glass with correct color gamut (as they get production worked out on the panels and multiple manufacturers), A8 processor with 2GB RAM, and 802.11ac/other radio & cellular band improvements. And 32GB of base memory with $75 upgrades to 64 and 128, please! Reply
  • BreakingStrata - Saturday, November 16, 2013 - link

    Seems like every time a review of an Apple product gets put up on this site there's always several people who are up in arms over a perceived positive bias towards Apple products. That's probably because the author of this article (and owner of this website) uses all Apple products. He also pretty much never reviews anything but Apple products now. That doesn't paint a very good picture does it? Someone who rarely reviews anything that isn't Apple but always finds the time to review a Apple products and primarily uses only Apple products clearly would not be in a position to give clear, unbiased reviews.

    This is very sad to me. I've been a regular reader for years. This site helped me fuel my passion for technology and I've learned so much from here. I used to have a tremendous amount of respect for this site and Anand but I can't anymore. I think people like myself read reviews because we want accurate and unbiased information. If we wanted biased information we would look at press releases or ask peoples personal opinions.

    The only thing that keeps me coming here is the excellent reviews put out by the other authors here. I can still read their articles without a bad taste in my mouth. It all boils down to this one thing- actions speak louder than words.
    Reply
  • ws3 - Saturday, November 16, 2013 - link

    The bias is all yours.

    Anadtech reviews Apple products and gives them mostly positive reviews because they are mostly high quality, high performing products. That is all.

    Whether or not you like iOS or the iOS App ecosystem is completely irrelevant. It's like me griping about a car review site that spends a lot of time reviewing two-seat sports cars when I'm interested in minivans. It's not bias on the part of the reviewer when he gives good reviews to a Ferrari.
    Reply
  • Commodus - Sunday, November 17, 2013 - link

    That's a slightly amusing remark given that he recently reviewed the Surface Pro 2 and liked it. I think you're confusing the nature of the product cycle with review preferences. Apple launched a flood of new gadgets recently, ergo they're going to get reviews shortly afterward.

    The issue isn't bias; Anand clearly qualifies his statements. Are the new iPads not faster overall than other mobile OS tablets on the market? Do they not have long battery life and good displays? I also suspect that it was wise to keep OS preferences out of the review, since that invariably devolves into a religious war. To me, it sounds more like your real beef is that he said something good about Apple, and you will not let that stand.
    Reply
  • HarryATX - Sunday, November 17, 2013 - link

    Oh come on please he reviewed the Surface 2, Surface Pro 2, Asus Transformer Book T100, Galaxy Note 10.1 2014(with Brian), Galaxy Note 8.0, Nexus 7(2013), Asus MEMO Pad HD7, Nexus 7(2012, with Brian), Acer W510, HTC Flyer, just to name a few. You can say that he reviewed the iPhone 5s alone but almost every iPhone prior to that he did with Brian, and IMO a big reason he was in every iPhone review had a huge part to do with the silicon.

    If you read the 'About' page of this site you will find that Anand is the ONLY senior editor of tablets. If you listen to the AnandTech Podcast you will hear repeatedly that Brian does not classify himself as a typical tablet user and therefore does not review 'normal' tablets.

    Please be fair. Anand does SSDs, CPUs, and other stuff. They just don't come out as quickly as phones or tablets does. Yes he does Macs, but why do you let someone who does not use OS X do Mac reviews?

    Plus I do not see endorsement in this review. All other sites simply say the iPad mini is as fast as the Air and has a display that's just as nice as the Air's. Anand dug all the differences out and what can you blame on him? The A7 does perform better than the Snapdragon 600 and I do not doubt that this iPad is quick and well-built. In the comparison he pointed out the advantage of Nexus 7 where it's due.

    So please... don't just look at the author's name under an Apple review; do look at the author's name for every review.
    Reply
  • KoolAidMan1 - Sunday, November 17, 2013 - link

    Are you just not paying attention to all the other products Anand reviews or is your life so devoid of drama and excitement that you're just making things up to get angry over on the internet? Reply
  • lilo777 - Sunday, November 17, 2013 - link

    No compromise device? Really? First of all such thing does not even exist in principle. More importantly let's look at some of the obvious omissions in this review. So the display exhibit s not image retention... What a surprise! Display in a tablet hand picket by Apple for a reviewer is "perfect". One can only wonder what all of those people complaining about display on MacRumors about are thinking. They should have waited for AT review. But wait... there is more. Image retention is not the worst problem of this display, not by a long shot. Way more people are complaining about uneven yellow tint. Again, somehow Anand's device escaped this problem. It amuses me when people start using car analogies while discussing Apple prices. Mercedes this, BMW that... How about more relevant analogies. Let's take TV for example. Not a single tech Web site will recommend you buying LG TV set over Samsung. Yet put a fruity logo on this screen and voila! Suddenly it's become better than Samsung. Then of course one might be lucky even to get a device with a display panel from second tier supplier like LG. What if it comes from Sharp or worse yet AU optronics?

    Another major issue that people are having with new iPads is the old amount of RAM. People complain that Safari starts reloading Web pages after the number of tabs reaches four. I have three times more RAM in my phone than what iPads have. Sure because of the superior OS (iOS) iPads may never need a lot of RAM. After all iOS devices still do not allow the user to run more than one application on the screen. Why bother with RAM? Let's just call it "no compromises". And I can run at least three apps (probably more but for obvious reasons I did not try it) on my phone simultaneously sharing the screen. Sure, it's not very useful on the phone but on a tablet with very high resolution?

    And what about the placement of speakers on iPads? Could it be more stupid than it is? Firstly they are too close to even pretend to be able to produce stereo sound. Secondly who needs stereo in a portrait mode? What for? Reading AT reviews? How about watching videos which is probably the only use case where it matters? And the so called ecosystem? It's a joke. Ecosystem with a single phone screen size? With no support for stylus or touch screens on the laptops (convertible devices)? Is not it a little bit too backward?

    Sadly lately I find AT reviews more and more compromised by site owner bias.
    Reply
  • ruggia - Sunday, November 17, 2013 - link

    are we reading the same review here?

    First off, the article is quite clear that the iPad mini DIDN'T turn out to be a no-compromise alternative to the iPad Air that Anand hoped it to be. (mainly because of the display)
    Second, whenever Anand uses the word "no-compromise", it is in always relation to iPad Air. (i.e. a smaller version of the 10-inch tablet with everything else being the same). He is not using it to refer to a device that has no flaws.
    Reply
  • beggerking@yahoo.com - Monday, November 18, 2013 - link

    well said! Anand is now biased.. which is sad. Reply
  • R0H1T - Sunday, November 17, 2013 - link

    Too bad Apple fanbois need to be spoon-fed by this site & dozens like this one in order for'em to make an informed decision "to buy or not to buy" the latest iToy out in the market ): Reply
  • akdj - Sunday, November 17, 2013 - link

    Sadly DBags like you wade though the review, 178 replies, and take the time to spew such drivel ONLY because your mother said "Hell No I'm not buying you one!! Get out. Get a job...buy one YOURSELF!"
    News. Flash. R0H1T....the iPad is no 'toy'. You certainly reveal your 12 maybe 13 year old age by calling it such. What was only a decade ago, even five years ago available only in lap or desktop form with two hours of batter life and spinning hard drives with less than a quarter the resolution has now become ubiquitous. Common place....and in many cases the ONLY computer many people need. Go on....feed you spider. Someday you'll be able to have one too
    Grow. Up.
    Reply
  • reggjoo1 - Sunday, November 17, 2013 - link

    Let me get this out of the way, I think apple makes great tablets, but I won't leave android for ios. The Ipad mini, sounds great, and advances the game, hardware, and performance wise. I like android over ios, because you can make your device, your device. I can adjust how the memory performs, set permissions for my apps, change the look, and feel to my liking, etc.. Even if I see someone with the same model, brand, I know my android, is uniquely my own, you can't do that with apple, I like a os setup just for me, and look the way i want. Give apple it's props, but it's just not for me. In a few months, someone will come out with something anyway, I like the competition in mobile. Reply
  • tytung - Monday, November 18, 2013 - link

    Easy, just jailbreak it, or wait until there's a jailbreak. Reply
  • hlovatt - Sunday, November 17, 2013 - link

    Great review and amazingly quick after the device went on sale, it really must take a lot of time and effort to so comprehensively test a device. Great work.

    Pity that the iHater brigade are posting on AnandTech, the comments used to be so much more insightful. Rather than saying that Anand is biased for pointing out that 'a Nexus 7 isn't as good but is cheaper', it would benefit people who want to buy an Android tablet to say great product this is what I want for the next iteration of the Nexus. Competition is good, don't kill it.

    Another alternative is that these people are paid to post negative comments on all good Apple reviews. If they are paid negative comments I hope they get found out and kicked off. That way we can all enjoy our geeking out without the painfully biased comments.
    Reply
  • psyside1 - Sunday, November 17, 2013 - link

    So this is why Nexus 5 review is not yet done, now its all clear. Reply
  • hlovatt - Sunday, November 17, 2013 - link

    I think you are demonstrating that you are a one eyed iHater, e.g. in this very forum people are asking where reviews of the Apple MacBook Pro are. Does that make the site Dell biased? No, AnandTech have finite resources and such quality reviews take time so they unfortunately can't do everything and have to prioritise. Presumably they also rely on supply of product to review, they couldn't possibly afford to purchase everything they review. Reply
  • psyside1 - Sunday, November 17, 2013 - link

    They cant afford? LOL!!!!! Reply
  • beggerking@yahoo.com - Monday, November 18, 2013 - link

    exactly! i was wondering why Nexus 5 was not up while the the AIr went up the same day it was released. Reply
  • chubbypanda - Tuesday, November 19, 2013 - link

    I'm afraid it's Brian, not Anand, who's working on Nexus 5 review. Reply
  • KPOM - Sunday, November 17, 2013 - link

    If it is an astroturf campaign, it isn't working. If anything, it makes the criticisms sound shrill. There are valid criticisms of the iPad mini and other Apple devices, but they get lost among all the clutter. Reply
  • julandorid - Sunday, November 17, 2013 - link

    Actually, the final rating is pretty accurate! The review mention all of the important flaws as the quality of the display which is still decent but not quite as good as it is on the Nexus 7. Also a very important thing is the price. The author of this review is not convinced that (double) price is justified anyhow. Actually the contrary. He practically encourage the buyers to take the Nexus 7 in serious consideration.

    My personal opinion is the display is not that bad as it is described, but it is entirely a conscious decision made by Apple to calibrate the display with much lower brightens in order to achieve a good battery and correct gamma. If they decided to put an extra power to the led backlight and does a different calibration then I guess we would have a better screen but in the expense of pretty bad battery life. Apple did a smart move by offering great performance and good battery life. Probably no body will notice the display since it is already better (I mean sharper) that it was previously. That gives Apple another chance, next year to advertize an even better iPad mini.

    The only serious concern that I have is the price! It is a known fact for years that Apple never rise the price (because it is already too high anyway) and always keep it the same while refreshing the product's internal and external components with better ones. However this year they decided to do the opposite - to increase the price even further.

    So, for me was no brainer to go with the new Nexus 7. Great device, great display. I always smile when I look at it.
    Reply
  • KPOM - Sunday, November 17, 2013 - link

    I think Apple raised the price partly because they knew demand would outstrip supply. Also, the price increase makes the iPad Air pricing seem a bit more reasonable. I wouldn't be surprised to see it drop back down to $379 or $349 with next year's launch when the displays will be more plentiful.

    Regarding Google and Amazon pricing, they will always undercut Apple because their business models are different. Amazon sells the devices close to cost because they want to sell you content. Google does the same because they make their revenue from ads. Therefore, comparable Apple and Samsung devices will always be pricier.
    Reply
  • RadarTheKat - Monday, November 18, 2013 - link

    Every tablet has two prices. The new price and the resale price. You mentioned only the first. Reply
  • joe mann - Sunday, November 17, 2013 - link

    GLONASS, where it went in rIPad mini, or Air? Reply
  • KPOM - Sunday, November 17, 2013 - link

    I think it is still there, just not publicized. On MacRumors, people have posted the Russian pages which appear to indicate support for GLONASS. Reply
  • EOL - Sunday, November 17, 2013 - link

    Excellent review.

    One point: you mention not being able to comfortably use your thumbs to type with the iPad Air in portrait mode. But did you use the built-in split keyboard or the full keyboard? Using the split keyboard (obtained by pulling both sides of the regular keyboard towards their edge) makes typing with the thumbs much easier.
    Reply
  • R0H1T - Sunday, November 17, 2013 - link

    @ akdj

    Sadly brain dead morons like you think that every negative comment about your fav device, no its not a "computer" period, is by a kid living at his parents' place & frowning over his friend's latest shiny little iToy. Unfortunately for people like you, with enough cash to burn on these entertainment/computing devices, the fact that someone points out that they obviously overpaid for such hardware is a tough pill to swallow & thus fandroid or Dbags is what they'll resort to, tit for tat I guess !

    Also the comment system on AT sucks as my previous response was supposed to be a reply to someone else's comment however people will still continue to frown over this without taking into context the original post.
    Reply
  • pedrostee - Sunday, November 17, 2013 - link

    this was particularly moronic Reply
  • Dennis Travis - Sunday, November 17, 2013 - link

    Why if you feel Anand and his staff are unfair and Apple lovers and tell lies in their reviews, do you bother even coming here and reading his excellent reviews? If I feel someone is unfair, I won't even bother reading anything they write. I come here because I feel Anand and company are very fair and very knowledgeable and write a fair review that tells me all I need to know about what they are reviewing. If people don't agree, go to another site. You might find though if you dig a bit a lot of the others do what you are accusing Anand of doing! :D

    Have a good day.
    Reply
  • Jamezrp - Sunday, November 17, 2013 - link

    I jumped to the iPad Air from the iPad 4, and have the iPad mini. After reading this, I'm pretty sure that I'll return the Air and not upgrade the mini either. Both have completely different use cases, and frankly, if I have the iPhone 5s (which I do), there's no reason to have all 3.

    That said, iPhone 5 owners are probably going to love the mini w/Retina. It's a perfect fit: no need to upgrade to the 5s, a significant power upgrade, and no loss of performance. I'd opt for the fullsize Air/4 because I use my iPad as a laptop replacement, though the mini is superior for holding one-handed. As Anand pointed out in this and the Air review, the larger tablet is still a tad too heavy to read on comfortably. The mini is not.

    But if you've got the last-gen mini and use it mostly for reading and light web-browsing, no reason to upgrade. But the choice between the two is a no-brainer.
    Reply
  • postitnowfool - Monday, November 18, 2013 - link

    For the love of god post the nexus 5 review. Its been weeks and your posting this instead? Its the same dang thing as ipad air with smaller batter and screen. Doesnt take days and page and pages of stuff to figure that out. Who's working on it? Anand? Brian? Did you decide to skip it totally? Reply
  • psyside1 - Monday, November 18, 2013 - link

    Yep, i said the same, this is the reason why N5 review is so late. Reply
  • Samuel Lord - Monday, November 18, 2013 - link

    You said: "Small text is always easier to read when it’s on a larger display, but if you’re looking at content that’s properly formatted for a tablet you’ll be in good shape on the mini. I was asked to look into the comic reading experience on the mini and also came away pretty pleased. Text bubbles were definitely not as easy to read as on the iPad Air..."
    What a ridiculous standard! Are you such a slave to Apple products that you can't criticise their pitiable UI? Good Phones, tablets, notebooks, and PCs have this thing called WORD WRAP, where you adjust font size for your eyes, not for some twentysomething's idea of style. Need proof? FACT: Todays Macbook Air and all iPADs have a MAXIMUM text size (and only available on some Apple software!) that is smaller than the STANDARD text size on a 30-year-old, 9-inch screen macintosh computer. This is the result of Apple putting nitwits in charge of user interfaces. UIs used to be the crown jewels of Apple products, but now the commonsense approach taken by competitors has cost Apple billions in sales. Elegance will never trump functionality in the long run.
    Reply
  • deasys - Monday, November 18, 2013 - link

    FACT: Today's MacBook Air and all iPads have no limit on text size. WTH are you talking about? Reply
  • Samuel Lord - Tuesday, November 19, 2013 - link

    Do a search for "Zoom Text Only." In a Win 7 machine (hey they suck, but for this feature) you just have ""zoom text only" in the Zoom button of the View menu. Then whenever you push Ctrl+ the text gets bigger, Ctrl- for smaller, as much as you want *without* changing the column widths. No unneeded scrolling! This is how computers should allow you to work: customize for *your* needs, not somebody's idea of *their* needs. Neither iOS Macs nor iPads nor iPad Minis have this feature. Zoom alone, without text re-wrap, is useless for browsing and countless other tasks. Some Apple software allows increasing default text size to 56 pixels...which sounds like a lot but is still much smaller than normal text. Reply
  • deasys - Tuesday, November 19, 2013 - link

    Why comment on something you clearly have no knowledge of?

    Safari has long supported the exact functionality you note. Pull down its View menu and have a ball! And iOS devices have always supported double-tap zooming.
    Reply
  • emoemeka - Wednesday, November 20, 2013 - link

    You have obviously never used an iOS device because your comment is just ignorant. Reply
  • Samuel Lord - Thursday, November 21, 2013 - link

    deasys, thank you. I have been trying for weeks in the Accessibility section of Sys Prefs trying different zoom settings, including maximum and using the Command+- tools, but never got intra-column zoom until now. Total zoom of a window happened, but the columns weren't static. Very strange. I was about to install win 7 with Bootcamp on my MBA just to allow my eyes to rest and to retire my Lenovo. This stuff happens a lot to me, I'll follow every step getting the unexplainable result, then it starts working. But yes, I know all of the text size settings not only in iOS but in 3rd party software. So yes, it works on 10.9, but iOS 7 still does not support text-only zoom.

    emoemeka, I expect I have put more time on various computers than you've ever seen. Apple did not make their zoom functions clear or simple to use. You might recall that default max and min zooms on the MBA (early 2013, now OS 10.9) are zero and zero. Really helpful, that. And as stated above, text-only zoom does not exist on the iPad for any app I've used with it. Presumably the iPhone and books on iPads are presented better, even Kindle got that right.
    Reply
  • kwrzesien - Monday, November 18, 2013 - link

    (+$100 for each increase in storage level, ugh)

    ...there, fixed that for you.
    Reply
  • cknobman - Monday, November 18, 2013 - link

    $400 for a mini tablet and it still gets a glowing recommendation?

    LOL. Sure the hardware is nice but how many laptop reviews do I see where everything is great but 1 or two things and it gets hit hard in the final recommendation/summary.

    Not for Apple crap though!!!!
    Reply
  • deasys - Monday, November 18, 2013 - link

    No, $299 for an iPad mini. At least get your facts straight. Reply
  • cknobman - Monday, November 18, 2013 - link

    Try comprehending better. The review is about the new retina iPad mini which is $400. IT IS A MINI TABLET.

    @RadarTheKat why should we consider the resale price? I dont buy gadgets with the future intent of resale. I buy them to use them. Sure when a device is old and I want to upgrade then maybe resale comes in but usually the device is SO OLD by then even if it were apple it would be worth nothing.
    Reply
  • ws3 - Monday, November 18, 2013 - link

    You can get $100 or more for a 3 year old iPhone, so resale value is a legitimate consideration. Reply
  • ws3 - Monday, November 18, 2013 - link

    To me, $400 for the retina mini seems like a bargain.
    Why wouldn't the retina mini get a glowing recommendation? It's an excellent device.
    Reply
  • beggerking@yahoo.com - Monday, November 18, 2013 - link

    for $350, i can get a asus T100 64gb tablet / netbook convertible runs FULL windows 8.1 os with 2gb of memory...along with external keyboard included....

    ya, $400 for a tablet is overpriced. way over priced.
    Reply
  • beggerking@yahoo.com - Monday, November 18, 2013 - link

    the same T100 also runs Bluestack which enables Android applications as well. Reply
  • ws3 - Monday, November 18, 2013 - link

    And the T100 is also slower than an iPad Air. I'm sure FULL Windows 8.1 os will be astoundingly performant on a processor slower than an ARM tablet SOC. Reply
  • beggerking@yahoo.com - Monday, November 18, 2013 - link

    wtf are you talking about? T100 slower than your Crap air? LMOA!!
    it runs FULL OS with real multitasking etc you idiot!
    Reply
  • beggerking@yahoo.com - Monday, November 18, 2013 - link

    you are still smelling Steve Job's dead behind air? lol Reply
  • emoemeka - Wednesday, November 20, 2013 - link

    The fact that you would mention a junk company like ASUS says a lot about what you consider to be quality. I'm sure you can buy a Westinghouse 60" LED TV for a lower price than a 47" Sony TV with worse specs, but would you claim that the Westinghouse was a better deal Reply
  • beggerking@yahoo.com - Monday, November 18, 2013 - link

    the same tablet also has 10 hr battery life, faster than your ipad (because it has a quadcore bay trail), more memory, more storage, allows micro-sd expansion.

    before you try to bad mouth about its quality /upgrade, a bio firmware that was just released has fixed all the problems /bugs people had with its sleep function.

    also it includes Microsoft office and allows user to run Steam games.

    in end, more productive, more compatible, more open, more power, more memory, more expand ability, and cost $50 less.
    Reply
  • ws3 - Monday, November 18, 2013 - link

    It's slower. Just look at the benchmarks right here at Anandtech. Reply
  • beggerking@yahoo.com - Tuesday, November 19, 2013 - link

    running what? mobile app vs desktop applications?LOL Reply
  • ws3 - Monday, November 18, 2013 - link

    Why would I want FULL Windows 8.1 os on a tablet?
    And why would I want the ultra-crappy screen and asus-typical poor build quality of the T100?
    Reply
  • beggerking@yahoo.com - Monday, November 18, 2013 - link

    the SAME ultra-crappy screen as your last year's Ipad Mini sold for the same price? LOL

    why don't you want FULL windows 8.1 os on a tablet? do you prefer to run mini-games vs real games? mini apps vs applications? mobile website vs FULL websites?

    you itarts chuckle me up lol
    Reply
  • ws3 - Monday, November 18, 2013 - link

    There's really no question which device people prefer. Just look at the sales figures. Clearly most people, like me, don't care about FULL Windows 8.1 OS or any of the other things you think are important. But don't feel bad about it, obviously you are "special". Reply
  • beggerking@yahoo.com - Monday, November 18, 2013 - link

    so you admit last yrs Mini has UltraCrap screen like you mentioned?

    actually, tons of questions as IOS only accounts for 10% of world mobile now. Apparently, Android is killing your love Apple.
    Reply
  • beggerking@yahoo.com - Monday, November 18, 2013 - link

    90% of my friends have swtiched from IOS to android phones, or Windows tablet.

    the remaining 10% will switch when their contracts are up.

    you are truly the "special" one, you must have rode the special mini yellow school bus for "special" mind challenged kids growing up.
    Reply
  • emoemeka - Wednesday, November 20, 2013 - link

    Is Android Windows 8.1? The fact still remains that the market has consistently rejected hybrid tablet/laptop devices. Name one full windows 8.1 tablet that consumers are actually buying? Reply
  • emoemeka - Wednesday, November 20, 2013 - link

    And how many of those have ASUS sold? Nobody wants a convertible tablet! People buy tablets because they want tablets. Those who want laptops buy laptops. Reply
  • beggerking@yahoo.com - Wednesday, November 20, 2013 - link

    go to slickdeals and search T100. amazon reviews,
    also surface pro /pro 2
    dell venue pros

    people buy them to replace both their laptops and tablets.
    Reply
  • RadarTheKat - Monday, November 18, 2013 - link

    You mentioned the price to buy a new one, but failed to mention the resale price associated with iGadgets. There are always two prices. When both are considered, the value is relatively greater for some products versus others. Please keep this in mind in the future when comparing apple products to their competition. Reply
  • tech4tac - Monday, November 18, 2013 - link

    "which *literally* everyone else can see"

    hmmmm... Must be why Apple had to print an apology.

    You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

    The mini was a reactionary product to counter the growing success of Android 7" tablets--a size which Jobs was adamantly against as he saw the 8.9" form factor as perfect. Both OS developers "borrowed" from each other over the years but the last few iOS versions (i.e. 5, 6, 7) make the two devices look even more similar. Features that appeared on Android prior to iOS (such as notifications bar, control center, and the similar-looking default wallpaper) make the two difficult to distinguish from afar. That said, just buy what works best for you & be done with it.

    So calm down & have some Koo-laid. This one's on me.
    Reply
  • EarFull - Tuesday, November 19, 2013 - link

    Question for those in the know: Would a Firmware or Software update remedy this color gamut issue? I use a lot of Photoshop, Aperture, Lightroom AND associated plug-ins and can change a LOT about a photo digitally. Also, with Spectraview I can change the characteristics of my displays.
    Thank you
    Patrick
    Reply
  • JC86 - Tuesday, November 19, 2013 - link

    This is just my personal observation/hope but I wouldn't recommend the iPads this generation because they seem like stop-gap iteration refreshes before next year's model that will likely include TouchID sensors throughout the lineup.

    The TouchID sensors that Apple introduced this year with the the iPhone 5S is clearly where the future of the entire iOS lineup is headed. My guess is that Apple didn't include the TouchID sensor with this generation's iPad lineup because of 1) component costs/supply and more importantly 2) iOS 7 has yet to support multiple user accounts. A feature that I believe will be coming in iOS 8. Since the iPhone is a much more personal device compared to an iPad that is often shared with family members, having TouchID setup with the ability to recognize who just unlocked the iPad and customize the settings and apps accordingly seems like the natural evolution of the TouchID hardware/software integration. Which is why even though my iPad 2 is getting a little old in the tooth, I'm still going to hold out and not upgrade until next year so I don't have significantly obsolete hardware within a few months.
    Reply
  • blue meanie - Tuesday, November 19, 2013 - link

    Agreed. Between the Touch ID and "retro" color gamut, it looks like I'll hold onto my chunky iPad 3 another year and wait for the iPad mini we all wanted last year. Given the "non-modular" (polite way to put it) nature of tablet manufacturing, key parts really should be of the same, contemporary caliber. I would argue that the display and processor need to be at the top of that list. I would not feel great about a significant investment (LTE and appropriate, yet overpriced, storage) in this iPad if they come out with a proper mini next year.
    Why is 16GB still an option? $399 should really get one 32GB.
    Reply
  • brianlee - Tuesday, November 19, 2013 - link

    I'm interested in comparing the sRGB color gamut between screens from Sharp and LG. Since the iPad Mini Retina in this article did not have the artifact issue (marco.org), it must be the display from LG. Does the Sharp display have better colors despite the artifact issue? Reply
  • hummerchine - Tuesday, November 19, 2013 - link

    Some of the comments here kill me! There must be some huge Apple haters out there...I fully admit to being the opposite. But man...slagging on Anand? His reviews are far more detailed, thorough, and unbiased than anything out there. He tells what is great...and what isn't...about the new iPad mini with RD.

    What exactly do you want him to do? The guy is RIGHT ON!
    Reply
  • Satyajit - Friday, November 22, 2013 - link

    Any clue as to when we can expect a review of the refreshed macbook lineup? Reply
  • CaptainStereo - Friday, November 22, 2013 - link

    Why don't the Apple haters just type out their same old gripes so they can just copy/paste to the comments section of every single Apple article they read. It would save them time, and give them more time to sit and stew and think about how much they hate Apple. Just a thought. Why whine about Apple's prices? Pick up an iPad or iPhone and then any Android product that isn't an HTC One. There is a reason it costs more, even if you disagree with the exact 'premium' they charge. Apple is in the business of building hardware, designing software, and selling those products into the marketplace. When the market for their products at the prices they ask goes away, then perhaps they'll take everyone's well-considered advice and revise their pricing strategy. Oh, and they are not a non-profit organization. They're in business to make money. Everyone seems so angry at them, just wanted to be sure everyone understood that making money is in fact exactly what they're in business for. It's what every business is for. The beauty of the world is that you can make money by following your passions and making products for others who share those passions and earn your living doing so. Reply
  • fantamic - Monday, December 02, 2013 - link

    "Why don't the Apple haters just type out their same old gripes so they can just copy/paste to the comments section of every single Apple article they read."

    What makes you think that they don't?
    Reply
  • stevon - Tuesday, December 17, 2013 - link

    There are much better apps available for iPad. It's not even close in that category. Reply
  • Whodathunkthat - Monday, March 10, 2014 - link

    Not sure what you say isn't availble - Jeppesen has all those apps for android, as well as access to the stones and hendrix.

    So, somehow you are confused.
    Reply
  • glenux - Thursday, May 01, 2014 - link

    Since the chips on the iPhone 5s and the iPad mini are exactly the same,
    do you ever see Apple making an iPhone out of an iPad mini?
    The iPhone screen is still too small for my vision.
    Reply

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