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  • zanon - Tuesday, February 05, 2013 - link

    Unless yoor workload is very IO intensive, there shouldn't be a significant difference in real world performance (except when dealing with incompressible data and the Toshiba drive).

    I don't think that's not a minor consideration in a notebook however, because far more then in a desktop full disk encryption is really critical, and encrypted data is incompressible. In fact, I'd go as far as to say that at this point FDE should be the standard use case, not the exception. We're long past the point where it causes any noticeable performance degradation in the vast majority of use cases, it's available built-in and transparent for every major OS, and we tend to carry more and more valuable data on our systems. So incompressible isn't some edge thing, it's nearly everything.

    Unconnected, also a minor typo there, "yoor" -> your.
  • zanon - Tuesday, February 05, 2013 - link

    doh, "I don't think that's not a minor consideration" -> "I don't think that's a minor consideration" Reply
  • Kristian Vättö - Tuesday, February 05, 2013 - link

    It's definitely a bigger deal if you're doing encryption. However, I don't want to demonize it too much because not everyone does encryption (I know I'm not doing, hehe) and under non-encrypted workloads the Toshiba SSD will be about as fast. Without any study on the amount of users who use encryption, it's hard to say how big of a deal it really is.

    I've never been a big fan of SandForce, though, so I agree that incompressible performance should not be any different from compressible. I'm still surprised that Apple went the SF route but I guess they didn't have much options.

    Fixed the typo, thanks for the heads up!
  • Kevin G - Tuesday, February 05, 2013 - link

    Encryption plays a much bigger role in the corporate world where companies will laptops using encryption as standard operating procedure. I also suspect getting data from this realm would be far easier than statistics from the consumer realm. Reply
  • Kristian Vättö - Tuesday, February 05, 2013 - link

    Good point. However, are Macs used that widely in the corporate world? Most SSDs include AES encryption which is far better than software based encryption, especially from performance standpoint. Unfortunately Apple doesn't use that but most PCs should have the option for hardware-based encryption available in BIOS.

    Fortunately the Toshiba SSDs are predictable as I've only seen them in 64GB and 128GB MacBook Airs. Going bigger will get you Samsung and better encrypted performance.
  • Flunk - Tuesday, February 05, 2013 - link

    No, Macs are unpopular in Corporate environments because Windows systems much much easier to manage. There isn't an equivalent for Active Directory for Macs and even if you do connect them to your you Windows Active Directory you don't get the same level of control and audit-trail. Reply
  • mlambert890 - Tuesday, April 02, 2013 - link

    Not true really... Mac's are increasingly popular in the corp environment. I see them everywhere and have used one as my primary now through 3 Fortune 500 jobs in a row. There are ways to audit and control them and only really backwards IT orgs are still resisting consumerization (at their peril)

    And yes, any corporate notebook is going to have mandated FDE. It's an important use case. Any Windows based FDE enterprise solution is either going to be BitLocker or a 3rd party, centrally manageable, solution (Trend, SafeNet, whoever). No one is going to use firmware based encryption on 10's of thousands of end user notebooks that need central control.

    Things that seem to make lots of sense when its all theory, or applied to one personal notebook, don't apply at massive scale when corporate data is at risk.
  • synthetase - Wednesday, April 10, 2013 - link

    Open Directory is the Active Directory equivalent in OS X, and It's been easy to join an Active Directory domain since 10.5 Reply
  • Jovec - Thursday, February 07, 2013 - link

    SSD built-in encryption and full disk encryption are not really the same thing. The little bit I read claims that the HDD BIOS password / ATA security lock isn't all that secure and can be removed with little effort/money. Reply
  • paul878 - Tuesday, February 05, 2013 - link

    I really don't think MAC user care what is inside. Reply
  • maratus - Tuesday, February 05, 2013 - link

    What a foolish stereotype.

    I have a 15" rMBP (2.3Ghz/16Gb/768gb) as my primary laptop as there's absolutely no rivals at the moment. It's simply the most impressive laptop I've ever seen.

    For the desktop, my choice is a small workstation (p9x79 pro + 3930k, GTX 670/680 and matched 64Gb ddr3-1600 kit from g.skill) and other minor things, all in small Lian-Li case with custom watercooling setup. And yes, I do care about what in my MacBook Pro as well.

    I don't like their upgrade price, but the base price of Apple retina laptops is justified by top-class screen, performance (esp graphics in 15"), weight and battery life combination.
  • Flunk - Tuesday, February 05, 2013 - link

    You do have to admit the performance isn't exactly top tier. You have to give up a lot to get to that low a weight and thickness. Reply
  • Greg512 - Tuesday, February 05, 2013 - link

    You can certainly get much more powerful computers for the money, but none under five pounds, at least with decent battery life. Even under six pounds it is a stretch. That being said, it is still a very powerful laptop, but nothing spectacular. Reply
  • p_giguere1 - Tuesday, February 05, 2013 - link

    You mean gaming performance?

    Not being a gamer and caring about having the most powerful GPU around doesn't mean you don't care about storage speed, which is useful even for non-gamers.

    The rMBP isn't targeting gamers, unlike most laptops of this price range. You sacrifice GPU performance for a thinner and lighter laptop with a better battery life and better display. Good tradeoff if you don't game.
  • nerd1 - Wednesday, February 06, 2013 - link

    1080p IPS displays are pretty much standard nowadays, as well as 6+ hrs battery life (thanks to ivy bridge processors and switchable GPU)

    And 'retina' resolution is plain overkill - you are not allowed to use the full native resolution in OSX anyway .
  • p_giguere1 - Wednesday, February 06, 2013 - link

    Whether the resolution is overkill for you depends on your usage and how much you value screen quality, much like someone might not need/value a powerful gaming GPU and call it overkill. Different stroke for different folks.

    You certainly are allowed to use the full resolution in OS X, it uses it by default out of the box. You must be talking about disabling HiDPI mode in order to get the maximum screen estate, which requires 3rd party software but isn't prohibited by Apple in any way. Having tried it myself, I doubt it's something you'd really want to do though.
  • KoolAidMan1 - Wednesday, February 06, 2013 - link

    Overkill how? Look at how text renders or fire up Aperture/Photoshop Lightroom and then tell me that the display is overkill. Reply
  • maratus - Wednesday, February 06, 2013 - link

    The situation is getting better, but I disagree with few statements.

    1. You're free to choose between different modes, and I occasionally even use native 2880x1800 (I use QuickRes).

    2. There're still not many laptops with full-hd 1080p screen.
    3. Not all of them have a top mid-class GPU.
    4. Now pick up those that actually have a similar 85-95Wh battery by default
    5. If you don't value low thickness, how about 2kg threshold for a 15" screen models?
    6. Now how many still have 16:10 ratio?
    7. And how about running two 2560x1600 30" dislpays with an option of 3rd (1920x1200) AND internal screen at the same time? P.S. Not in mirror mode.
    8. Last, but not least: How about a native PCI-E bus for external peripherals like GPUs or audio controllers?
  • JPForums - Thursday, February 07, 2013 - link

    1) As I understand it, you need a third party tool to disable HiDPI mode. Though personally, I don't consider that a problem.

    2) There are plenty. Look around. The problem is finding IPS displays. Then try to find one with a reasonable color gamut and accuracy. If you need a wide color gamut, your options really dwindle.

    3) I could just as easily point out the number of Macbooks with high end GPUs. The tradeoff really depends on your priority.

    4) Good point. Most comparable notebooks I've seen like to stuff a higher end CPU/GPU which requires more space and weight for the cooling solution. They tend to use smaller batteries to compensate. As a further concession, MAC OS has been shown to get better battery life than Windows 7 (Tested on MacBook). I'm not really sure about Windows 8.

    5) Neither thickness nor weight is a problem for me. I'd rather have a larger battery.

    6) This is my biggest issue with notebooks. I consider 16x10 resolutions superior to 16:9. Especially when the big push behind moving to 16:9 (movies) was negated when studios decided to use even wider aspect ratios.

    7) This can be done with several laptops I've seen. Pretty much any ATi based laptop with the required connectors I've worked with can do it. (I think nVidia is limited to 3) Don't confuse this for an Apple advantage.

    8) How is carrying around all those extra peripherals working out for you? You play the weight advantage, the size advantage, and the battery life advantage, but all of those go out the window if you have to carry extra items with you. I can always carry extra batteries to make up for lack of battery life with a normal notebook, but that limits portability. So the usefulness of the external PCIe is limited to when it is docked. I prefer a laptop that already has what I need. For a docked system I'll stick with a much more powerful desktop.

    Truth be told, I'd love to get a MacBook Pro if only for the 16:10 aspect ratio. Top it off with the gorgeous color reproduction and I almost want to throw my current notebook out the window. However, the tradeoffs they make aren't really to my liking at the moment. I'd rather have something with a little more graphics muscle (games are only part of the reason) and sacrifice thickness and weight. Alternately, give me 12 - 15 hrs of real, productive use (I need either Windows or Linux ATM) and I'll forgo the high end graphics. Again, thickness and weight aren't an issue for me, though for this one I'd prefer something that isn't Dell XPS (original) thick. For now, I'll just use my desktop with a larger, even more gorgeous, fully calibrated, 16:10 display for serious work. My current laptop will suffice for light work.
  • maratus - Saturday, February 09, 2013 - link

    1) yep
    2) Sorry, I meant fullHD and IPS
    3) True, though I've never been interested in them. 13 rMbP is nice due to the screen and battery life, but everything (cMBP, Air) else isn't quite up to this line.
    5) So photo-oriented backpacks, for instance, greatly benefit from reduced thickness. Less stress on the internal compartment and easy to operate
    7) I didn't know that laptop Displayports actually work fine for daisy chaining. I usually deal with nice laptops (top Sony lines) with HDMI only onboard :)
    My main point is that rMBP is compatible with 3 monitors regardless of the connection type, I'm not sure you can run several DVI from a single Displayport. rMBP has three separate ports to connect to, that somewhat unique. You can arrive in your partners office and quickly setup multi-monitor setup out of what they have
    8) that for stationary use only, of course. I personally don't use it as the PCi-e extensions are very expensive.
  • orthorim - Wednesday, May 01, 2013 - link

    If you wanted to make a point about your ignorance - congratulations, you win.

    FWIW I do care about having 2800x1880 pixels on my 15" screen. It comes with some perks that are pretty unique:
    - No pixels visible. Ever.
    - Photos look better than on any other display - you see way more details. Previously my iPhone 5 camera pix looked pretty good; turns out a lot of that was due to the low res display. Watching it on the retina there's a HUGE gap to modern DSLRs. It's like night and day. Camera limitations become glaringly obvious.
    - Scaling carries no penalty in sharpness. Whether I run at 1680x or 1920x1200 - both scaled - there are no pixels visible. So I can choose from a variety of screen resolutions. That's not the case on a lower res display - those you can either run at native resolution, or it looks like shit.
    - Screen is so sharp that 1920x1200 is a perfectly acceptable resolution on 15". Admittedly thats only the case with the Samsung LCD panels, the LG ones are more blurry.
  • maratus - Wednesday, February 06, 2013 - link

    That's not raw performance I'm talking about when I said there're no rivals. I can always buy a well-specced Clevo for a lot less, but I don't need it. I prefer to have 95Wh battery and hi-resolution IPS screen in a slim and low-weight form factor instead while retaining most of the performance. And I'm willing to pay premium price and deal with other compromises, too.

    Of course, you can buy a faster laptop, but you need a serious DTR for that, and the biggest difference will be mainly in discrete GPU. I don't think that having more than one 2.5" is beneficial (although I'd prefer a regular form factor in rMBP) as I'm totally against RAID0 in this case. I don't want mechanical drive inside the laptop either, so it's a moot point. You won't have significantly faster CPU and not everyone absolutely needs 32Gb of RAM in a laptop!
  • orthorim - Wednesday, May 01, 2013 - link

    Don't forget to mention build quality. I crashed my motorbike; the retina MacBook Pro sliced through two thick bags, impacted on the concrete, and got a small ding on the corner. The laptop still works perfectly. Apart from the aluminum abrasion, it looks perfect too. In a similar situation the Clevo would shatter in a thousand pieces...

    Anyway if you'd told me a year ago I'd have a retina laptop with core i7, 7 hours of battery, and 2kg I'd have laughed.
  • Arbee - Wednesday, February 06, 2013 - link

    And a trackpad that doesn't suck. PC makers almost uniformly ship terrible screens and worse trackpads, but you've heard that rant on the AT podcast several times :) Reply
  • KPOM - Tuesday, February 05, 2013 - link

    I'm guessing you've never frequented the MacRumors forums where people obsess over whether they get an LG vs. Samsung screen, or Toshiba vs. Samsung (and now SanDisk) SSD. Reply
  • Zak - Wednesday, February 06, 2013 - link

    Perhaps not, but Mac users might care. Reply
  • phillyry - Sunday, February 24, 2013 - link

    I returned my 128GB MBA and was gleeful when I saw that I got a Samsung in the 256GB model.

    Btw, Anand (as well as pretty much every tech writer at theverge) uses a MacBook. It's commonplace in the industry.

    You can be smart, well informed, and enjoy your PC experience, whether it's Windows or Mac. Honestly, the Mac is way more enjoyable but the PC is nicer for managing files.
  • orthorim - Wednesday, May 01, 2013 - link

    Three kinds of people are both technically knowledgeable and use PCs:
    - Gamers
    - IT folks that work in corporate IT which is all Windows
    - Programmers who work on stuff that only runs on Windows (of which there's less and less)

    All the good developers I know have been on Macs for years and years...
  • orthorim - Wednesday, May 01, 2013 - link

    Ummm.... yes we do?! Reply
  • Oyinko - Thursday, February 28, 2013 - link

    It seems the new sandisk cause some issues with the fans of the Macbook Pro Retina. Check the topic on Apple Website. Reply
  • andome - Sunday, June 30, 2013 - link

    I easily upgraded my 17" MacBook Pro that I bought last year to an Angelbird SSD, the increase in performance speed is amazing. I chose this brand because it is TRIM enabled out of the box.

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