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  • CobaltFire - Tuesday, December 18, 2012 - link

    Before you have corrected the misinformation (Optimus on Quadro) pointed out in the last? Further, you have not addressed the very real concerns of your bias in these reviews as of yet. Reply
  • Maraque - Tuesday, December 18, 2012 - link

    Yes, why? Personally, for me, his workstation reviews have lost a lot of credibility after his last farce of a review.
    "Sir, you need to step away from the workstations, please, until you have been deemed not a threat."
    Reply
  • Dustin Sklavos - Tuesday, December 18, 2012 - link

    I didn't like the Precision M6700's design. I felt like the EliteBook 8760w I had reviewed was a better built workstation. I still do.

    I can recognize that I was needlessly harsh about the M6700, though, and indeed folded information and feedback into this review.

    You can accept progress and try to see a concerted effort to move forward, or you can continue harping. It's up to you.
    Reply
  • theeldest - Tuesday, December 18, 2012 - link

    This review was better than the last but I still take issue with two points:

    1. Aesthetics. It's OK to comment on it but you make it sound as if others should consider your opinion on this issue when purchasing. As you said above, you thought the 8760w was better built and that's what we need to hear. Quality of materials and build. But try to keep in mind that other people don't have the same appreciation for HPs design as you.

    2. "Standard" keyboards. Why do you consider HPs the more 'standard' layout? The layout on the Dell is the same as they've been using in the Latitudes and Precisions since 2001. Literally more than 10 years.

    HP on the other hand has switched during the EliteBook's short life. Interestingly, the first and second generation used the SAME keyboard layout as Dell. So I'd argue (and have evidence to support) that the current HPs are using a NON-standard layout.

    This is why we have issue with these reviews. You're making sweeping statements that aren't backed up by fact and you're using these to support your position.

    As soon as you do this, you lose credibility. This review was better than the last, but you've still got room for growth.
    Reply
  • CobaltFire - Tuesday, December 18, 2012 - link

    Have you addressed the lack of basic technical research regarding the Optimus system? This is critical in any informed discussion of these laptops.

    Optimus with an 8 bit screen makes for great battery life, but you do not get that wonderful IPS screen. Note that HP does not bother even giving you this choice due to their design.

    If you want IPS, FirePro, or HP you lose ~60% runtime. This would have taken almost no research to find out, and nowhere in any publications I have seen does it state that Optimus does not work with Quadro.

    This site has always seemed to be about having accurate information, even if the reviews were a little behind. Your reviews, and your unwillingness to acknowledge the errors in a timely manner (as Anand has done many times) are not in keeping with this sites reputation.

    This is a long time readers opinion. I do not typically comment because so many others do such a good job of covering what I may be interested in.
    Reply
  • ggathagan - Tuesday, December 18, 2012 - link

    What exactly are you asking for with regards to Optimus?
    From your statement, I suspect that you are already aware of the fact that Optimus is not supported on Quadro cards, just as it's not supported on desktop systems.
    What else is there, then, to say about the matter?

    The article clearly states that the use of the 10-bit panel precludes the use of Optimus.

    Lastly, since a Quadro card was not used in this laptop, I don't understand how the lack of Optimus support for Quadro is germane to this review.
    Reply
  • Goodstorybro - Tuesday, December 18, 2012 - link

    Optimus does work with Quadro cards - as demonstrated with Dells M4700 and W530 Thinkpads.

    Personally, I think the hit on battery with using an IPS panel is too much. Most users will have an larger external monitor as their primary display to do real work, while the extended battery life will be much more useful on the road.
    Reply
  • solipsism - Tuesday, December 18, 2012 - link

    I don't quite get why these higher end notebooks aren't compared to MBPs running Windows. Are they not an option one might make if looking for a $1200 or higher notebook? Reply
  • bobdole1997 - Tuesday, December 18, 2012 - link

    From the review, the MBP does not have a workstation-class GPU. So it was not compared. Reply
  • solipsism - Tuesday, December 18, 2012 - link

    I did not see that mentioned. Thank you. Reply
  • darwinosx - Tuesday, December 18, 2012 - link

    Too bad the reviewer is wrong about that as all the people running Autocad on Macs will attest to. Reply
  • hexanerax - Tuesday, December 18, 2012 - link

    AutoCAD.... Talk 3D design software like Inventor, CATIA, Solidworks etc. Those packages aren't even available for OS X, are they now; so how would one expect Mac only users to know about such things.

    Dell precision M6300 / FX1600 M - Still runs inventor 2013 / Revit Architecture 2013 perfectly well. And yes it is a 1920 x 1200 panel.
    Reply
  • joos2000 - Tuesday, December 18, 2012 - link

    AutCAD? That doesn't really need workstation grade hardware. If you wan't to faff about in autocad, any old computer will do. Reply
  • CadentOrange - Tuesday, December 18, 2012 - link

    So why is the Samsung Series 7 included in the comparison? That laptop uses the nVidia GeForce 650M graphics chip which is the same as the Macbook Pro 15"? Reply
  • Dustin Sklavos - Tuesday, December 18, 2012 - link

    For the same reason the Alienware M17x R4 is included: we don't have as many workstations up for review as I'd like, and I wanted a couple of baselines for what the consumer side is doing. Also, the 650M is a good demonstration of Optimus so you can see the kind of battery life you're losing by going with a system with a 10-bit display. Reply
  • joos2000 - Tuesday, December 18, 2012 - link

    It also gave me a bit of insight on the driver differences between proper workstation grade GPU's and consumer grade GPU's as well as how an apple laptop will perform in workstation applications. Reply
  • Flunk - Tuesday, December 18, 2012 - link

    Workstation-class GPUs are one of the biggest scams in the industry. All of the current "workstation" GPUs are exactly the same as a consumer GPU with slightly tweaked drivers. It's not even hard to modify the drivers if you feel like bothering (it's not worth it unless you're running autoCAD, maya, blender or 3DSMax). Reply
  • drfish - Tuesday, December 18, 2012 - link

    Everyone knows you buy "workstation" GPUs for technical support from your software provider more than any other reason. Reply
  • RandomUsername3245 - Tuesday, December 18, 2012 - link

    It hasn't been possible to convert a Geforce to Quadro via a driver mod in YEARS. Get with the program!

    It may be a scam, but the drivers *do* make a performance difference.
    Reply
  • Death666Angel - Tuesday, December 18, 2012 - link

    I'm pretty sure that quite a few software companies only give support for their products when you are running workstation graphics cards, otherwise they will just shrug and tell you to buy another graphics card. Reply
  • Kevin G - Tuesday, December 18, 2012 - link

    There is little difference between the drivers on consumer level GPU's under OS X and the workstation class video card drivers under Windows. That is the key difference between workstation and consumer level GPU's: drivers. Take a look at the cross platform software and the software vendors do certify the OS X drivers.

    Beyond that the other differences between consumer and workstation GPU's are often related to GPU compute. nVidia only offers full speed GPU compute on their Telsa cards and have even started to nerf the Quadro line up (though not as much as Geforce cards based upon the same GPU die).

    I've been able to spot two other minor differences between consumer and workstation cards. The first is hardware based line anti-aliasing and 10 bit color support. Under OS X, both this AA technique and 10 bit color output are provided on consumer cards.

    The last difference would be the cards themselves. Workstation cards due tend to have additional outputs (either DL-DVI or DP) and more on board memory for the GPU. For a laptop this isn't as critical but worth noting for desktop systems.
    Reply
  • ananduser - Tuesday, December 18, 2012 - link

    You can add the fact that Win under bootcamp runs relatively poor compared to a native machine. You lose a good 25%(at least) on battery life and no optimus-type switching. The drivers are also generic and have an impact on the system's overall IOPS(due to drivers). All in all not a good machine at all. It's good for the Apple user that needs sporadic native windows access on his machine and that's just about it. Reply
  • damianrobertjones - Tuesday, December 18, 2012 - link

    Please mention that you can purchase an extended BB09, CC09 or SR09 battery for this device. BB09 and CC09 providing the most battery life. Reply
  • damianrobertjones - Tuesday, December 18, 2012 - link

    P.s. Anyone planning on buying should really consider re-applying the thermal compound as the basic application isn't the best in the world. Reply
  • Flunk - Tuesday, December 18, 2012 - link

    That is true of every notebook I've ever seen. Reply
  • ijozic - Tuesday, December 18, 2012 - link

    Just two points worthy of mention regarding the Dell..
    First, it was first offered with the IPS screen, as well, but most (if not all?) were plagued by blue tint issues so they are no longer offered (I'm surprised if the HP doesn't have the same problem as I'd presume the screens are pretty much the same?). So, if a better stock of displays is obtained, they might be offered again.
    Second, it seems to have a much better cooling system as it also offers the XM CPUs.
    Reply
  • Oskars Apša - Tuesday, December 18, 2012 - link

    Why not review workstations with 3D models and drawings that are made by some interior and graphics designers, even architects?
    I as a designer would see value if you had benchmarked programs like AutoCad, 3DS MAX and Corel draw with real life models, scenes and drawings.
    I don't see value in primitive benchmarking that is made upon models that ar made by some benchmark "manufacturer". That might be good for game designers at most.
    Also, screens of benchmarked 3D and other objects are a must.
    Reply
  • lx686x - Tuesday, December 18, 2012 - link

    SPECviewperf is pretty much a standard for workstation class GPU's so I don't see a problem here.
    You need a benchamrk not some random scenes.
    Reply
  • Oskars Apša - Tuesday, December 18, 2012 - link

    I disagree. By look the SPEC provided models and scenes look like random leftover highscool projects. Models are primitive texture vise and the same can be said about models themselves.
    The only good models are provided for Siemens, but that isn't the most used program by designers, or is it?
    A standart made by some company for 6 year old console game development doesn't mean it is sufficient.
    Reply
  • lx686x - Tuesday, December 18, 2012 - link

    It doesn't matter, if it scores lower in SPEC in will also have lower FPS in real programs as well.
    If you know any other BENCHMARK then suggest it...
    Reply
  • Oskars Apša - Tuesday, December 18, 2012 - link

    It matters a lot, none of these menchmarks represent use of 32 megapixel textures for instance?
    And i'll repeat my suggestion, Anandtech has to use real world 3D interior and architectural scenes, with high res. textures.
    Reply
  • lx686x - Tuesday, December 18, 2012 - link

    And I'll also repeat again, it needs to be a benchmark where you can reproduce the exact same environment for all the platforms.
    And you still haven't provided any suggestion of which benchmark/software to use.

    And you bashed SPEC in your first post for not having textures (textures are only part of the story), it's geared towards 3D, and it does a good job of providing valid numbers for comparison.
    Reply
  • Oskars Apša - Wednesday, December 19, 2012 - link

    The use of real life interiors and objects is my suggestion. Why is it so hard to fathom? :P

    You are right in that sence. Those benchmarks may be good for industiral oil rig piping models, bet the problem is - no High res. textures are tested, they should.

    If there is no such convinient test then Anand can try and make one if they see fit. Anandtech is a review site, not a hobby site that tries only standart tests.
    So they have the obligation to upp the ante if they will continue to write workstation previews but calling them reviews. Really sad considering the work that is put in some gaming gear.

    P.S.

    I'm a reader, and so are you - ask for more, this is not comunism ;)
    Reply
  • Grennum - Wednesday, December 19, 2012 - link

    Making a benchmark like this is no simple task. SPEC is not perfect but it is a standard which is important because you can compare your own personal results to those of Anand's.

    When I read a workstation review I am interested it's workstation 3D design and analysis/simulation capabilities, I could care less about textures.

    To write a proper benchmark would require a very high competence with whatever software you are trying to benchmark. For example with Solidworks when you access the software via the API(which you would need for benchmarking) you get very different results than through the standard UI. You would need to account for that. Now in particular Solidworks has a built in benchmark which could be used. However a license of Solidworks is pretty expensive for a review site, and it would need to be kept up to date to be viable.

    As for your comment about Siemens, Siemens owns the parasolid core, which is used by a huge number of 3D modelling programs. So its benchmark is very valid.
    Reply
  • Oskars Apša - Wednesday, December 19, 2012 - link

    If you don't care about textures - good for you, I care. ;)
    Review sites usually dwell on companies wanting them to review their gear, but why not arrange a sponsoreship from soft companies? I'm almost certain the reason is not that AnandTech couldn't arrange free softs but the inconsistant number of reviews of proffesional gear to justify such an agreement for the other side of the table.

    Thanks for the info on Siemens, but the only somewhat popular program that uses its instructions is Solidworks, so... irrelivant for me.
    Reply
  • dwatterworth - Wednesday, December 19, 2012 - link

    A note on your request for high definition textures...I am an architect and do quite a bit of 3d modelling and rendering in a Autodesk Revit and 3DSmax. I am fortunate enough to work for an office that lets me build and maintain my own workstations along with others for power users in the office.

    I have no idea why you would really need high res textures FPS figures. Conventional programs limit the texture previews in the viewports and only make use of the full image at time of render.

    The 3d benchmarks provided DO give a very good idea of how the performance would scale. Maybe benchmarks don't give you the exact FPS of each program but it will provide solid comparisons between the hardware.

    If you are concerned about how the hardware can handle such high textures at time of render it would really bring up the question why would you being rendering such scenes on a laptop? It would seem more effective to get a mid-level laptop for mobile/modeling and make use of a dedicated render node(s).
    Reply
  • Oskars Apša - Wednesday, December 19, 2012 - link

    A continuous pattern for multiple wooden panels is an example where i would use a high res texture (2x6m). Wery convinient in such and other cases.
    Of course one can use continuous mirroring function, compress the textures into smaller ones, but that is not the remedy for me all the time.
    Why a laptop? I employ myself and i spend weekennds on the country side, and often i have to render a few additonal frames at that time. For stable electricity feed i'd rather have a laptop with its own battery, and not a second stationary machine with a huge ups.
    Reply
  • Gunbuster - Tuesday, December 18, 2012 - link

    Where is the value here? I have a M4700 on the way for $2025.03 (W/Shipping & Tax)

    32% lower cost on the Dell and the only thing missing is the upgraded LCD but the HP will probably get the corner tint issue and you'll have to return it anyway.

    Lets look at the config:

    3rd Gen Intel Core i7-3740QM (2.7GHz, 6M cache, Upgradable to Intel vPro technology), Dell Mobile Precision MX700 ***BETTER***

    16.0GB, DDR3-1600MHz SDRAM, 2 DIMM, Dell Mobile Precision ***BETTER***

    Internal English Dual Point Backlit Keyboard, Latitude E

    NVIDIA Quadro K2000M with 2GB GDDR3, Dell Mobile Precision M4700 ***BETTER***

    750GB 2.5" 7200rpm Hard Drive, Dell Mobile Precision M4700/M6700

    No USH, No Fingerprint Reader and No Contactless Smartcard Reader Mobile Precision M4700

    15.6" UltraSharp FHD (1920x1080) Wide View Anti-Glare, Premium Panel Guarantee, Mobile Precision M4700

    Windows 8 Pro, 64-bit, Latitude, OptiPlex, Precison, English

    Dell Wireless 380 Bluetooth 4.0 LE Module, Dell Latitude E4/Mobile Precision

    180W 3P, A/C Adapter, Mobile Precision M4700

    6-Foot, 3-Pin Power Cord,Mobile Precision M4700, US

    Slot Load DVD+/-RW Drive, Dell Mobile Precision

    Integrated HD video webcam and noise reducing array microphones , Dell Mobile Precision M4700 ***You don't mention it at all even though it appears to be in your photos***

    Intel Centrino Ultimate-N 6300 802.11n 3x3 Half Mini-card, Dell Mobile Precision ***BETTER***

    6-cell (65Wh) Primary Lithium Ion Battery, (2.8Ah) ExpressCharge Capable, Dell Mobile Precision M4700
    Reply
  • blue_falcon - Tuesday, December 18, 2012 - link

    You forgot to point out one more item that is ***BETTER***. The M4700 can use the same docking station that every E-Family Latitude can (for the past 4 generations). That way if you have to, you can use someone else's dock when visiting another building, or site. Reply
  • blue_falcon - Tuesday, December 18, 2012 - link

    Also, you can drive 5 monitors (if you choose to) when docked. I think the Elitebook can only do four (or that is all that is supported). Reply
  • Stuka87 - Tuesday, December 18, 2012 - link

    5 displays? The docks only have up to two outputs. I am technically running triple head as I have the laptop (M4600) open, and then dual Dell 2412M displays.

    And as I said int he comments for the 6700, I love my precision, its a bit heavy but great otherwise. It works hard and does what I need.
    Reply
  • DanNeely - Tuesday, December 18, 2012 - link

    Has Dell issued a new, less capable dock? My E series dock has 1 each DVI, DP, and VGA ports; using both the sandy bridge IGP and the Quadro I can drive all 3 external outputs and my Latitude's built in LCD at the same time.

    I'd like to try running a 4th external display from one of the laptop's video out's instead; but haven't managed to finagle a 4th monitor at the office.
    Reply
  • blue_falcon - Tuesday, December 18, 2012 - link

    They have an Eport plus that has 2 DVI, 2 DP, and 1 VGA and has the legacy ports (if needed).

    http://dell.to/UHZTE5
    Reply
  • Kevin G - Tuesday, December 18, 2012 - link

    Is the DP port support v1.2 of the spec? If so, you may be able to daisy-chain some displays or use a DP MST hub. Unfortunately, I've only seen one monitor capable of DP chaining to date and MST hubs are AWOL but continually promised 'soon'. Reply
  • DanNeely - Tuesday, December 18, 2012 - link

    No idea. Without a daisychainable (or a DP capable 2560x1440/1600) monitor; how would I check this? Reply
  • Goodstorybro - Tuesday, December 18, 2012 - link

    Agreed - with the heavy discounts from Dell and Lenovo, I don't see how the HP is attractive.

    You can really get a pretty good system for the price if you do some of the upgrades yourself. I got my build at under $2100 shipped:

    Thinkpad W530 with : 3820qm i7, K2000m Quadro, 32gb RAM, 15.6 FHD, 240gb SSD + 750GB 7200 HDD, WP8, fingerprint reader, ultimate N wifi, 2yr accidental coverage

    Doesn't get too much better than that in the 15.6" workstation market.
    Reply
  • deamon0 - Tuesday, December 18, 2012 - link

    I have seen a couple examples and a lot of stories that HP manufactured laptops are not as reliable as Lenovo or Toshiba. The HP's heating issue seems to be common among many laptops. I thinks this laptop is not worth the price at all!
    I think we have better options from other better brands for a better price.

    By the way it'd be much interesting read if you could review the Toshiba Qosmio X875-Q7380 laptop. There aren't any reviews of it elsewhere.
    Reply
  • Hrel - Tuesday, December 18, 2012 - link

    Can you guys please review this Lenovo?

    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N8...

    Honestly looks like the perfect combination of features for a balanced gaming rig at a VERY fair price from a company that, based on every time I've worked with their business offerings, has a flawless record of reliability.
    Reply
  • joos2000 - Tuesday, December 18, 2012 - link

    With that PGU it's hardly suitable for workstation duties. Reply
  • Hrel - Thursday, January 17, 2013 - link

    yeah, that consumer laptop is totally designed for that. *sarcasm
    I have no interest in work station duties.
    Reply
  • twtech - Tuesday, December 18, 2012 - link

    They're bad enough on 17" notebooks. I would not buy this for that reason alone. Reply
  • Araemo - Tuesday, December 18, 2012 - link

    Actually, I find the one on my Latitude E6520 very useful. And I originally thought the offset to the keyboard would be odd and annoying.. except that my desktop keyboard has the same offset compared to my desktop monitor, so it's actually fairly natural for me. Reply
  • SteveLord - Tuesday, December 18, 2012 - link

    Comments following a laptop review that aren't filled with trolls going "omg it's not 1080p resolution so it's automatically garbage!"

    Oh yeah, it's a Dreamcolor config........
    Reply
  • Laststop311 - Wednesday, December 19, 2012 - link

    This is my favorite of all displays out right now even like more then amoled. Why is LG not putting dreamcolor displays on their phones? And selling dreamcolor phone displays to other smartphone manufacturers. Reply

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