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  • extide - Tuesday, October 16, 2012 - link

    Microsoft gets it! People want something that is QUALITY! I think this device will have a huge impact. :) Reply
  • yannigr - Tuesday, October 16, 2012 - link

    Yes, a negative one in Microsoft's financials. The prices that I see today are like this is an Apple device. It is not. Microsoft is going to learn the hard way why you can't pretend to be Apple when you are not Apple. It doesn't matter if you are equally famous or big. Only Google realized that.
    Just to be clear. I am not an Apple fanboy. And I am not an Android fanboy. My smartphone is a windows phone and I only have PCs. Also love Firefox. But surface is going to fail.
    Reply
  • extide - Tuesday, October 16, 2012 - link

    I think it's a bit premature to call it a failure. We will have to wait and see. Honestly I don't think people really care what brand stuff is as long as it is the nice/cool/new/hot thing on the market. If they advertise this right then I have little doubt it will at least do pretty well. Reply
  • headbox - Wednesday, October 17, 2012 - link

    I'm sure they'll sell hundreds of these Reply
  • B3an - Wednesday, October 17, 2012 - link

    They've already sold out of the 32GB model. 3 weeks wait now.

    I'm sure people will now just say it's because MS didn't make many. As if the new factory MS built just for making these things is only going to be producing 10 a week or something... Surface will sell millions.

    I'll happily get a Surface RT over iPad. It's clearly HIGHER build quality too. iPad = aluminium, the weakest metal. Surface = magnesium.
    Reply
  • HisDivineOrder - Wednesday, October 17, 2012 - link

    Yeah, Transformer tablets sold out, too. iPad still dominated Android big time.

    Besides, I think you should wait for real reviews before stating categorically that you love the device. You may yet be surprised by the ways in which the Metro UI does not satisfy you. After all, i'd hate to have call you a MS fan boy, but someone who says, "I love the product and I will always love the product no matter what!" is dangerously close to that.
    Reply
  • B3an - Wednesday, October 17, 2012 - link

    I already have Win 8 RTM on my workstation and love the UI. I already know what i'll be getting with Surface, a much better UI than on other tablets. Reply
  • Wolfpup - Wednesday, October 17, 2012 - link

    Shouldn't you consider waiting for Windows 8 tablets though? Even if you like Metro, you're saying you like Windows 8...which this isn't, sooo.... Reply
  • B3an - Thursday, October 18, 2012 - link

    That don't make any sense. Win 8/RT both use the exact same Metro/Modern UI, it's identical. Even the desktop is the same for the most part (minus a few features and not being able to run x86 software) but If you stick to the Modern UI on a Win 8 or Win RT tablet you literally wont be able to notice any difference between them. I'm not saying i definitely will be getting a Surface RT (i might wait for the x86/Win8 version) just that i'd easily choose Win RT over the competition. Reply
  • CeriseCogburn - Friday, October 26, 2012 - link

    And thus the real reason is revealed...

    The workstation will virtually match in OS, so B3an doesn't have to learn anything different.

    There you go people, it's all right there. Simple as can be, and completely valid, even if others choose some other path.
    Reply
  • musicus - Wednesday, October 17, 2012 - link

    Lol, that was a good one! Reply
  • lilmoe - Tuesday, October 16, 2012 - link

    That's a ridiculous argument.

    Samsung is getting away with similar pricing on so-called "cheap plastic" with their Galaxy S series. If the Galaxy S4 comes with "premium" materials, Samsung could arguably get away with higher pricing than the iPhone.

    It's not about "being Apple". It's about building a fast, good, efficient, and reliable product with an acceptable ecosystem and great customer support. That's the key to success in this time and age.

    Surface is on its way to being a success in the tablet world IMHO. Yes, even with that "pricing". You simply get "more" with the same price compared with an iPad, especially when the ecosystem catches up.
    Reply
  • steven75 - Tuesday, October 16, 2012 - link

    The software ecosystem is everything. Ballmer said it himself in his famous sweaty developers, developers, developers rant.

    Surface RT with it's sub 4,000 apps is up against the iPad with it's 250,000 apps.

    No doubt out it, you get significantly more with the iPad, especially with the iPad 2 (and soon iPad mini) undercutting the Surface on price. Let's not kid ourselves, this thing has an iPad 2 class display at best.
    Reply
  • damianrobertjones - Tuesday, October 16, 2012 - link

    There's always MS Office.

    Also out of those 250,000 apps which, if any, has any real use? (I'm sure that there's a few)
    Reply
  • name99 - Tuesday, October 16, 2012 - link

    What REAL WORLD problem are you solving by buying a tablet with a really crappy keyboard and no mouse/trackpad (so no fine control) rather than buying a laptop?

    To me this is like boasting how waterproof your toaster is. It may be waterproof indeed, but I don't have any need to make toast in the pool.
    Reply
  • kkwst2 - Wednesday, October 17, 2012 - link

    You're comparing having a tablet with a (nearly) full version of Office to making toast in a pool? Wow.

    Are you sure you're not ReallyBadAnalogyGuy?

    250,000 apps, and I can't think of a single one that is more useful than a full version of Office. The real world problem is having a tablet that I can edit a colleague's manuscript, make some last minute changes to my presentation, or crunch my latest research results on in a pinch and still have a portable form factor that I can slip in a conference bag.

    Does that usage model really sound so far fetched? They may have blurred the line between notebook and tablet a little better than anyone so far in my opinion (pending actual hands on of course).

    Will I get one? I'll probably wait for something like the Surface Pro because I'll want access to things like Illustrator and Acro Pro. Also, I'm betting my work won't provide VPN software for it.

    Will it catch on? I think it won't totally flop, but will certainly not put a dent in iOS tablets. If anything it will cannibalize Android tablet sales.
    Reply
  • inighthawki - Wednesday, October 17, 2012 - link

    Not to mention, the keyboard has a trackpad built in, and the touch cover has actual keys with feedback if you want that, too. So OK, it doesn't come with a full-sized mechanical keyboard, but neither does any other tablet or laptop. Reply
  • KoolAidMan1 - Tuesday, October 16, 2012 - link

    That's the point though, the more apps there are, the greater odds there are that the best developers will be on board and that the best apps will be available.

    You can expect a distribution on any platform where 90%-95% of software won't be worth looking at for most people. 95% of 250k is far greater than 95% of 4k.
    Reply
  • Ammaross - Friday, October 19, 2012 - link

    "You can expect a distribution on any platform where 90%-95% of software won't be worth looking at for most people. 95% of 250k is far greater than 95% of 4k."

    When 5000+ of those apps (not my number btw) are "fart apps," it's not hard to inflate numbers. Apple has decided to arbitrarily limit certain types of apps (fart apps, flashlight apps, etc) due to the flooded app store for those genres. They allowed it at first to be able to claim those large app count numbers, but now it's not as needed. I doubt those "4000" WinRT apps are fart apps.
    Reply
  • musicus - Wednesday, October 17, 2012 - link

    iPad >250'000 specially for iPad designed, among them many highly professional apps for hospitals, cartography for airlines, prof. music studio recording and editing etc...

    MS Office will be on the iPad in spring 2013.

    Windows RT: 4000 Apps...

    Sorry, but these are the facts. MS comes 3 years late, which is not easy to catch up, even if the hardware is fine. It's the software that makes the difference!
    Reply
  • andrewaggb - Tuesday, October 16, 2012 - link

    I disagree. The most used apps on my ipad are hands down, safari and youtube. hours of use each day. Surface has these covered.

    Then there is angry birds of various flavors and lately bad piggies that probably get played a couple times a day/week. Rovio claims windows 8 is on the list for angry birds star wars (Nov 8) (and presumably their other titles will come as well), so this should be handled as well. There are already some windows 8 games that my kids like. Plus with directx and c/c++, windows 8 will get games.

    Other stuff like netflix and plex, catan, dominion, ticket to ride, magic the gathering etc. Netflix is now live for windows 8 and works well, the others have standard windows versions so there's a good chance they'll get windows 8 versions as well.
    Reply
  • andrewaggb - Tuesday, October 16, 2012 - link

    It has a bit higher dpi than the ipad2, (and possibly better quality) but I suspect it will pale in comparision to the ipad 3. Reply
  • KoolAidMan1 - Tuesday, October 16, 2012 - link

    Download Jasmine for iPad, far better than Google or Apple's Youtube apps, and only on iOS: https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/jasmine-youtube-cl... Reply
  • rkcth - Wednesday, October 17, 2012 - link

    Actually you can't program for Windows RT (this version of the surface) using C/C++. You have to use C#, managed directX to the best of my knowledge. Reply
  • mdonatas - Wednesday, October 17, 2012 - link

    Quote from wikipedia "WinRT supports development in C++/CX (Component Extensions, a language based on C++) and the managed languages C# and VB.NET, as well as JavaScript."
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Runtime

    So C++ is supported.
    Reply
  • inighthawki - Wednesday, October 17, 2012 - link

    Where on earth did you hear that from? Reply
  • name99 - Tuesday, October 16, 2012 - link

    You are making multiple assertions here

    (a) Galaxy S3 ships at Amazon at $150 for entry level unit (ie with contract etc). That's not Apple level pricing., it's $50 below.

    (b) Phones are sold by carriers, and are pushed by staff at the carrier stores. This is a well-known fact. Tablets don't "benefit" from this dynamic. So to project phone behavior onto tablet behavior is a mistake.

    A better argument would be to discuss Note sales. Those, however, are complicated by fact that (so far) the main Note sales have been the small Notes, which sell in a market where Apple doesn't really (so far) compete.

    So the only example that would actually validate your thesis would be sales of the Note 10.1. As far as I can tell, most reviewers considered this a disappointing device, and I have seen no impressive sales figures since its launch.
    Reply
  • damianrobertjones - Tuesday, October 16, 2012 - link

    I'm ok with the price(s) as the damn thing features office which, for me in the business world, beats the iPad hands down. Plus there's a real live USB port and expandable memory Reply
  • musicus - Wednesday, October 17, 2012 - link

    MS office for iOS: spring 2013. Thats official! Reply
  • ricardodawkins - Thursday, October 18, 2012 - link

    Who made this official? ThePoison or www.engapple.com ? Reply
  • Alkapwn - Tuesday, October 16, 2012 - link

    I think people are missing the point of what Surface has the potential to be; especially when you start with the comparisons of existing product focus that the Android & iPads tablets currently have. Tablets in general are devices designed to consume media and information. They fail horribly in the production / office application areas where we still rely on our laptops and workstations to fulfill that capability. Surface, Pro specifically, has a very good chance with Windows 8 to break through that limitation. (I'm less eager and optimistic for RT for the same reasons.) This could be *huge* and I think it has the potential to make a bigger dent in the corporate sector than any Android or iOS device has to date. Reply
  • tdtran1025 - Tuesday, November 27, 2012 - link

    Though I agree with your assessment of the marketing strategy, Surface may not fail at all. The interface is a bear for desktop use, but in the guise of a touch device, it flourishes; and with the hardcore Windows followers, Surface will no doubt pull along a few of them. This presents an interesting hypothetical scenario in which Android users will see some evidence of superiorty of Surface resulting from tighter hardware/software integration, a key factor Android lacks. Translating this into reality, I can see no compelling reason for Mac users to switch but some Android users are up for grab. In any eventuality, more competition makes for a better economic environment, I believe. Reply
  • Arbee - Tuesday, October 16, 2012 - link

    Yeah, I think there's room for an iPad-priced Windows (or Android 4.1+) device if the display and materials are also iPad-quality. The Nexus 7 is really the only non-Apple tablet right now that doesn't scream "cheap" when you hold it. (Which is ironic, given it's price point). Reply
  • Zink - Tuesday, October 16, 2012 - link

    There are others, they are just more costly. The Asus Transformer Prime tablets are solid metal like an iPad and very sturdy. Reply
  • HisDivineOrder - Wednesday, October 17, 2012 - link

    Haha.

    Yeah. Right. Thing is this. Microsoft is making the very same mistake as every Android device maker.

    You can't charge the same as the market leader ($500) and expect to win. The market leader wins every time. It doesn't matter that there's slightly more flash. The app advantage is too huge. You have to charge less, offer more value, win marketshare and eventually find parity.

    You don't get to have parity at the start when you have far fewer apps and are unproven. They'll learn when Windows RT devices begin to drop their prices, trying to find a market just like Android.

    And they'll find their market... when they hit a price point truly reflective of their status as the OS with the least apps and the OS with the most to prove.
    Reply
  • chizow - Tuesday, October 16, 2012 - link

    I do think this device could be huge, the Microsoft name and OS lend instant credibility and stability in a sea of fledgling, unproven devices from countless hardware makers. I know a lot of people really like Android but the supported upgrade paths on the myriad hardware types is a complete nightmare. Microsoft automatically lends a calming hand to the situation by controlling both the hardware and associated software/OS updates.

    It looks like they really put a lot of effort into the hardware design too which is great to see, but its really not all that surprising given all their recent success with the XBox 360 designs. Other than the D-pad on the 360 controller, its easily my favorite game controller of all time. MS also has a long track history of designing great peripherals; some of their Mouse designs are still preferred by many and their keyboards are pretty solid as well.

    Personally, I will probably wait for the 2nd-gen Surface before taking the plunge to let them work out the bugs and improve the hardware, but if I were in the market for a laptop/tablet today, I would certainly consider buying one right now.
    Reply
  • amdwilliam1985 - Tuesday, October 16, 2012 - link

    I agree with most of the stuff you've said.

    If the price starts around $300 like the previous rumor then I don't mind jumping on it the first week. But since it starts at $500, I'm going to wait and see. Probably get on to the second or third generation band wagon if it's proven with good records.

    I did jump on Nexus 7, first gen product, totally against my usual product buying process, but then again, it's a 8GB $200 device, totally worth the try and so far it's rocking solid with Jelly 4.1.2. ;)
    Reply
  • jjj - Tuesday, October 16, 2012 - link

    running this kind of fluf now? you couuld at least label it as publicity. Reply
  • Zink - Tuesday, October 16, 2012 - link

    I agree that this article is not written correctly. The point of an objective review is to cut out the marketing crap, otherwise everyone is going to want flowery language to describe their new products and then what's the point of the article? If you are going to use their words it has to be in quotes. "most simple of inspirations" Reply
  • extide - Tuesday, October 16, 2012 - link

    It's a news item in the pipeline... NOT an article or review! At least pay attention to what you are reading! Reply
  • karasaj - Tuesday, October 16, 2012 - link

    The title is "inside microsofts surface rt tablet" I don't know where you got "objective review" from that instead of inside the development process which is going to show Microsoft's own ideals/intentions for surface, but whatever makes you happy I guess. Reply
  • Zink - Tuesday, October 16, 2012 - link

    It's a press release presented as a pipeline article. Reply
  • A5 - Tuesday, October 16, 2012 - link

    Yeah, pretty much. This is the kind of article I expect at Dailytech, not from Anand. Reply
  • AdamChew - Tuesday, October 16, 2012 - link

    A5, you are spot on, this is beneath anandtech and this write up is an advertorial and nothing else.

    I expected a tear down and nothing something like this which is exactly as the introduction if the Surface - no one is allowed to touch it.
    Reply
  • amdwilliam1985 - Tuesday, October 16, 2012 - link

    Finally something decent to read from Anand that's non-Apple related :)

    Don't mind me, former Apple lover and current Apple hater here.
    I don't mind reading about anything as long as it does not relate to Apple.
    I don't mind buying any good device as long as it does not have Apple logo.
    Reply
  • ltcommanderdata - Tuesday, October 16, 2012 - link

    There's some irony here in that by commenting on your search for non-Apple articles, the first mention of Apple in this non-Apple article is your comment. Reply
  • Cygni - Tuesday, October 16, 2012 - link

    Way to take a moral stand against Gigantic Publically Traded Evil Tech Company in Cupertino, instead siding with Gigantic Publically Traded Evil Tech Company in Redmond. Reply
  • steven75 - Tuesday, October 16, 2012 - link

    Yeah pretty much this. Reply
  • dagamer34 - Tuesday, October 16, 2012 - link

    The Surface RT makes me wonder which is more important compared to an iPad 3:having a display that's high resolution or optically bonded. My current 11" MacBook Air display is fine, but the viewing angles that come from a TN panel are atrocious and it has that grain look i've only seen disappear with high DPI displays... Reply
  • ananduser - Tuesday, October 16, 2012 - link

    Resolution is good but not as good as Apple makes you think it is. The massive res of the ipad makes for a "paler" display as outlined by the Verge - Josh's hand looked like a dead man's hand due to the massive pixel density preventing some light to pass through. If this article is correct, the surface display will be of higher quality than the ipad's in every single way except resolution.

    BTW I think the ipad is a gorgeous device and a sports a brilliant display.
    Reply
  • doobydoo - Tuesday, October 16, 2012 - link

    'If this article is correct, the surface display will be of higher quality than the ipad's in every single way except resolution.'

    This article says nothing of the sort.
    Reply
  • steven75 - Tuesday, October 16, 2012 - link

    lolwut. The iPad display is better than the vast majority of desktop monitors, much less laptops or tablets. Don't you read Anandtech? Reply
  • Spivonious - Tuesday, October 16, 2012 - link

    Is the panel in the Surface a TN panel? I haven't seen that anywhere. I'm assuming they'd use IPS. Reply
  • name99 - Tuesday, October 16, 2012 - link

    If only there were a way to discover this...
    Like, for example, visit an Apple store and then a store selling Surface...
    (If you go to Best Buy you can probably see the two side by side.)

    Personally I think if you make your display decisions based on comments you read on the internet rather than your own eyes, you deserve whatever you get.
    Reply
  • gcoupe - Tuesday, October 16, 2012 - link

    So the RT sensors include an accelerometer, gyro and compass. Does this mean that it has no GPS capability?

    What on earth is the point of that? When I use a Maps App. I'd like to see where I am, not simply what direction I'm facing...
    Reply
  • ricardodawkins - Thursday, October 18, 2012 - link

    Apple WiFi tablet doesn't have GPS either. Reply
  • maximumGPU - Tuesday, October 16, 2012 - link

    i like the device and see the potential, but i can't get over that resolution, no matter what they say about how it's manufactured.
    I'll wait for the anandtech review, but it's safe to assume you'd easily notice the difference when put next to a ipad 3rd gen.
    Reply
  • A5 - Tuesday, October 16, 2012 - link

    I think 1366x768 is fine for a 10" screen, though maybe not at this price point. Reply
  • N4g4rok - Tuesday, October 16, 2012 - link

    That 10.1", i can promise it won't bother you that much. It's when they try to stretch it out to 17" or 15" screens does it get really ugly. Reply
  • maximumGPU - Wednesday, October 17, 2012 - link

    i'm not convinced yet. Ipad 2 was 132 ppi, and that looked grainy and fuzzy next to the ipad 3. Surface is roughly around ~ 148 pi, so i'm not expecting great results.
    and as mentioned in the post above, at that price point you'd expect better.
    Reply
  • craig0ry - Tuesday, October 16, 2012 - link

    This pricing strategy is a huge mistake. I was under the impression the idea here was to market a high-quality device sold at a loss in order to establish a market presence for Windows 8's app store.

    The device is certainly of high quality, but the app ecosystem has Office and... that's it. Office is certainly a big plus - it is the selling point for me - but I don't think they're going to fly off the shelves.

    At $100 cheaper, there is no question of the value proposition here. At this specific price point, I'm inclined to think twice before purchasing - not what you need consumers to be doing as you try to claw your way up in an established market.

    Color me disappointed - I wanted to buy one at launch day. I'll still pick up the 32gb base model, but this announcement took a lot of the momentum away for me.
    Reply
  • Metaluna - Tuesday, October 16, 2012 - link

    The idea of selling Surface at a loss is basically a non-starter for Microsoft. That might work for a completely proprietary product like the Xbox 360, but not for something that is meant to kickstart a broader Win8 tablet market. They would be cutting their own OEMs off at the knees, and possibly get themselves into anti-trust trouble again to boot. Reply
  • ssiu - Tuesday, October 16, 2012 - link

    I'd really like to see some performance comparison, e.g.

    -- compare Surface RT with Android tablet (preferably using same CPU/GPU) -- does Windows RT suck up more or less system resources than Android (or iOS)?

    -- compare Windows RT with Windows 8 Atom tablets -- is Atom a bit faster than ARM CPU? is Windows 8 more bloated than Windows RT? what is the combined effect, do the same Mertr apps run at about the same speed? (I find early single-core Atom netbooks very very slow -- do Windows 8 on dual-core Atom really give acceptable performance?)

    run some popular cross-platform apps and games on
    -- iPad 2
    -- new iPad
    -- popular Android tablets
    -- Windows RT tablet
    -- Windows 8 Atom tablet
    -- Widnows 8 Core i3/i5/i7 tablets

    to compare performance etc. Hope to read about the results soon.
    Reply
  • powerarmour - Tuesday, October 16, 2012 - link

    Is it called surface, because when you finally throw it into the local pond in sheer frustration of using Metro, it floats to the top? Reply
  • HardwareDufus - Tuesday, October 16, 2012 - link

    I would love that folddown keyboard/screen cover option on a Windows Phone...
    Just put a clever hole somewhere so that your voice goes to the microhone and the sound travels to your ear...then you could answer it without flipping the cover...
    Make the keyboard bluetooth... if you dont' want to use it... remove it and put it away....

    You could
    1. Protect Your Phone Screen
    2. Gives you a keyboard without typing on the glass...
    Reply
  • drwho9437 - Wednesday, October 17, 2012 - link

    I thought one of the major points of Tegra 3 was the integrated touch controllers that removed the need for external touch controllers... So I would have to guess the Atmel would be something else? Reply
  • Mugur - Wednesday, October 17, 2012 - link

    Just put into account that it has Windows and Office on it (I know, I know, it's RT, Office it's preview with free upgrade etc etc). The licensing cost for an OEM notebook to have pre-instaled Windows 8 + Office 2013? I bet it's 100$ or more over the "freeDos" one...

    Other that that... appeal for corporate? Can it join a domain? Can you manage it through policies, etc...?
    Reply
  • TormDK - Wednesday, October 17, 2012 - link

    No, you cannot join a domain with Windows 8 RT. It's a consumer product.

    From this site (UK MSSTORE) : http://www.microsoftstore.com/store/msuk/en_GB/pdp...

    "Some features aren't included in Windows RT:
    Windows Media Player
    Windows Media Center
    HomeGroup creation (you can join an existing HomeGroup but you can't create a new one)
    Domain join
    "
    Reply
  • Mugur - Wednesday, October 17, 2012 - link

    I know... :-). That's why I put those rhetoric questions, as an answer to someone that said that this product will appeal to enterprise, etc. Reply
  • musicus - Wednesday, October 17, 2012 - link

    Did anyone notice this:

    "Office Home & Student 2013 RT Preview and the final edition are not
    for use in commercial, nonprofit, or revenue-generating activities."

    So where can it compete with the iPad?

    Ok, let's wait for the surface pro. Bet there is a fan blowing hot air in our faces? Vapour ware at its best... :)
    Reply
  • B3an - Thursday, October 18, 2012 - link

    You don't seem to know what vapour ware is.

    You also seem to be rather thick. Must be an Apple user.
    Reply
  • Wolfpup - Wednesday, October 17, 2012 - link

    If this came with a full desktop and an x86 emulator to seemlessly run real Windows programs, I'd be pretty interested. As it is? I'm still very excited to see real Windows tablets, but being limited to limited ARM based Metro programs...does this even run Windows Phone 7 programs? (Actually I'm confused by that...will Windows 8 emulate Windows RT programs? Will it run programs created for Windows Phone 7 and 8?)

    Without real Windows, the only "killer app" this has versus the iPad or Android tablets right now is Office. Admittedly that might be huge though, as Office solutions for both iOS and Android are beyond laughable, but...well, I'm more interested to see a $500-700ish AMD based Windows 8 tablet that can actually be used as a full PC and run games too...
    Reply
  • owned66 - Thursday, October 18, 2012 - link

    will wait for one with an ATOM cpu
    i need my x86 software
    Reply

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