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  • tipoo - Wednesday, September 05, 2012 - link

    Windows Phone 8 looks great, they sure did a lot to entice developers, and in the immortal words of our friend Steve Ballmer developers are what make or break a platform (paraphrasing from "DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS"). Nokia already made by far the prettiest WP hardware, perhaps the prettiest phone hardware period depending on who you ask, I'm sure they have something good for WP8. And modern SoCs at last, woo!

    P.s anyone know where there is a live video feed of the Nokia event?
    Reply
  • tipoo - Wednesday, September 05, 2012 - link

    Actually nevermind the question, here it is

    http://www.nokia.com/global/about-nokia/webcast/li...
    Reply
  • tipoo - Wednesday, September 05, 2012 - link

    And also I should read more carefully before asking next time...I'll stop replying to myself now :P Reply
  • veer01_42 - Wednesday, September 05, 2012 - link

    Is it me or is the video stream problematic with a lot of flickering? I thought we got rid of this wen we moved on from VHS tapes ... Reply
  • tipoo - Wednesday, September 05, 2012 - link

    I'm getting that too. Reply
  • dizguyJFL - Wednesday, September 05, 2012 - link

    nope, we're all getting tht static Reply
  • BSMonitor - Wednesday, September 05, 2012 - link

    You are watching web streamed video from a projected video delivered by a smart phone.. You don't think it might miss a frame or two in there Reply
  • dizguyJFL - Wednesday, September 05, 2012 - link

    LMAO! I hadnt even noticed you answered your own question. I thought someone else had answered that. Reply
  • Belard - Wednesday, September 05, 2012 - link

    MS Silverlight sucks.. Longlive HTML5...

    This webcast blows. Takes forever to start in Chrome. Perhaps they should use standards?
    Reply
  • doubledeej - Wednesday, September 05, 2012 - link

    HTML5 still has a LONG way to go before it covers the functionality of Silverlight or Flash. Add to that the inconsistent implementation by the different browsers (it's unbelievable how bad the situation is) and HTML 5 adds little that is useful for beyond playing video and audio without plugins and the most simple of graphics.

    HTML5 is just not ready. It needs to bake a while longer.
    Reply
  • Belard - Wednesday, September 05, 2012 - link

    So if WP8 fails... the phone is hardware ready for Android 4.1, eh?

    People were not wetting their pants for WP7, I'm not seeing that happening with WP8... especially with the hatred with Windows 8/HATE.

    That said, the Lumia 820 is a beautiful phone.
    Reply
  • Old_Fogie_Late_Bloomer - Wednesday, September 05, 2012 - link

    If it weren't for my paranoia about devices without removable batteries, this would almost certainly be my next phone. As it is...it still might very well be my next phone. We'll see. I'm interested in beginning to develop for Windows 8 and Windows Phone 8 (though I don't intend on using Windows 8 as my primary OS), so my choice of a new phone is basically going to be between the various flagship WP8 devices. Reply
  • Belard - Wednesday, September 05, 2012 - link

    The 820 is really the only phone that is actually innovative (You can barely tell the difference between the 900 / 920). The removable and replaceable covers makes excellent sense.

    I'll admit - about a month ago, I was thinking "Why not make a phone without a body? Just snap off the cover and choose a replacement style in color and in shape. So only the CORE gets updated, with the modern phone being "just the screen" nowadays - just keep that part the same. Hence, the 820 "core" is the same shape and size... for the 830,840, etc.

    We didn't hear more on this as the techie was stumbling all over himself :)

    At least this Conference is a lot better than the MS tablet one.
    Reply
  • melgross - Wednesday, September 05, 2012 - link

    How was wp7 a great start? Almost no one bought one. It was a placeholder until Microsoft came up with the real replacement for Win Mobile. It's still possible that people won't want wp8 either. Reply
  • Belard - Wednesday, September 05, 2012 - link

    I actually like Metro (on phones) - Still kind of surprised WP7 didn't take off. WP8 doesn't really change anything. Okay, now you can resize the tabs... Watching the webcsat... wow, works like Launcher 7 on my Android. Still surprised MS hasn't added a tool on the tabs to change the individual tile colors and rotation.

    This guy is showing a whole bunch of LIVE titles on the screen... I must say... WP8 can quickly become a screen full of animated mess. Possible information overload.

    Still... Anyone who didn't like the 900 because of its looks, won't like the 920 any more... even thou they have some new great colors. May take 9 months for at&t to release it.
    Reply
  • Myrandex - Wednesday, September 05, 2012 - link

    Eh I would rather have all of the information right there rather than going into apps to find it. And it can be customized, just remove / resize / move further down the apps that you don't care about as much. Reply
  • Belard - Wednesday, September 05, 2012 - link

    What do you mean going Into Apps? On the iPhone, Android - you have to slide over or press the Apps button to get to ALL Apps. On WP7/8 you press the arrow or slide to the right. (What works on phones DOESN'T work for desktop computers)

    What I still like and prefer on the WP7/8 over anything else is the LIST view of Apps, rather than the 4x4 grid with tiny text. Everything is in alphabetical order. Lets see... I can see 9 Apps with the WP7 at the same time... vs 20... it takes a lot more effort to scan apps you are looking for by name... you will read it this way:

    ------------>
    V

    ------------>
    V

    ------------>
    V

    ------------>

    While on WP7/8 you only read down.

    I wonder if there is an Appe/add-on for ICS that will allow that? Other than using Launcher 7.
    Reply
  • Myrandex - Wednesday, September 05, 2012 - link

    What I mean by going into apps is physically opening an app to find information. Opening Facebook to see someone's status or picture, opening a weather app to see the temp., opening my calendar to see what my next appointment is, etc. All of that information is right there on the home screen in live tiles if I have those tiles pinned on my destop at the start.

    And yea sometimes it can take a while to find an app by name on WP. At least a user can search for an app or hit the boxed letter to get a grid of leading characters to jump the list pretty quickly.
    Reply
  • Alexvrb - Wednesday, September 05, 2012 - link

    The pictures sure look like you can change individual tile colors. Also, you can make tiles BIG so there's only a handful, or small, or mix-and-match as you please. It's the best, most flexible setup. I don't own a WP device, but if a decent WP8 unit comes to Verizon I'm certainly going to be looking at it. Reply
  • Lonyo - Wednesday, September 05, 2012 - link

    Maybe because it was well received in terms of the fundamentals, even if it didn't have great consumer adoption?
    Lots of reviews were positive about the interface/UI, which is a good start.
    Reply
  • melgross - Wednesday, September 05, 2012 - link

    From what I remember, it averages decent reviews, but not great ones. The main thing was, "Wow! It's different! Let's give it kudo's for that."

    But people don't seem to care about it. At AT&T, their biggest supported here in the US, I was to,d that people wander over to the Win Phone display, pick up the phone for a moment or two and then mostly buy iPhones, and the rest of the sales are Androids, usually a Samsung.
    Reply
  • doubledeej - Wednesday, September 05, 2012 - link

    One of its biggest problems is that salespeople would intentionally drive sales away from Windows Phone to Android or iPhone. I had several friends go into stores with the intent of buying a WP7 model and get pressured into buying something else.

    Its hard to sell a phone when the carriers are actively trying to direct sales elsewhere.
    Reply
  • melgross - Wednesday, September 05, 2012 - link

    I don't believe that. AT&T, at least, has spent a huge amount of money promoting Win Phone phones. They wouldnt discourage sales of a lroduct theve spent so much money ln lromoting. I've been told while I was in my local store, that people just don't seem interested. They pick them up, and put them down. Reply
  • melgross - Wednesday, September 05, 2012 - link

    Oops! My fingers don't seem to be working today. Reply
  • Belard - Wednesday, September 05, 2012 - link

    Yes and no to both of you. I've been in at&t stores quite a bit comparing phones to upgrade to. I have time to kill, I watch customers a bit, spend time checking out the phone, talking to salespeople (I show them Launcher 7 on my Android) - Hell, I've even helped them sell a few Nokia 900 because they could see ON MY ANDROID how it works.

    So Doubledeej: yes your friends changed their minds - but they were NOT pressured... here is what happens.

    A) Salespeople make money no matter what phone they sell. I do this myself for desktops. I built to my customers needs and budget.

    B) A customer (such as your friend) walks in the door - they barely know what they want. They maybe know just a tad about Nokia/WP7. They'll ask questions "Which is more popular - strong support" A= Android & iPhone.

    C) WP7 is very new (still) and guess what is in MOST at&t stores? DUMMY PHONES! Only Apple is willing to pay for ALL at&t stores and kiosks to have LIVE phones. So they'll look at the nokia with its FAKE plain-looking screen of "icons" and look at the dummy Android phones. Guess what? Metro's advantages are gone. And because so few people have a WP7 device, there is no experience in how it works... and salespeople don't know because they don't have working models.

    D) 100,000 WP7 app number is a joke, many are repeats... they have over 3000 fart apps alone. (no kidding).

    E) Some people don't like Metro, period.
    Reply
  • Myrandex - Wednesday, September 05, 2012 - link

    I've seen it too. I had a friend that was wanting a White Lumia 900 to upgrade from her iPhone 3GS. The salesperson drove her to an HTC Android handset, she didn't like it and returned it and bought the iPhone 4S at that salesperson's recommendation. Reply
  • Belard - Wednesday, September 05, 2012 - link

    Okay.... so far. WP8 is getting some Android features.
    - Augmentation (Since Android 3) - when use the camera and looking at the street - it overlays ICONS for business, for contact info or website, etc.

    - Camera Zoom - NOW with Pinch to zoom. Oddly, I tried this on my Android 2.3 phone (yeah its old -retiring soon) and it does the same thing. Never thought to try it out. before.

    Well..now they are promoting their colors and textures. They win points on that one.
    Reply
  • Myrandex - Wednesday, September 05, 2012 - link

    And Android is getting WP features too...project Butters, accelerating performance is something WP has had since launch day. The performance has been unbelievably good even on launch phones still to this point. 1GHz. with 512MB of ram does so much more on WP than Android. Reply
  • BabelHuber - Wednesday, September 05, 2012 - link

    1% market share in installed base after almost 2 years is really no great start at all ;-)

    What I miss is information about the software enhancements on WP8:

    - Does it finally support Bluetooth file transfer?
    - Does it finally have a real file system with a file browser?
    - Can it be configured as USB stick, so you can connect it to a PC without using Zune?
    - Can you finally decide what to install, or are users still dependent on the MS App Store?
    - Is the SD card a real external device which you can fully control?
    - Does it finally support real multitasking? Is there a task manager?

    These are the things I am interested in. If it is the same wallet garden like iOS and WP7, it surely will fail again.
    Reply
  • doubledeej - Wednesday, September 05, 2012 - link

    Where did you get that 1% number? US adoption has one of the lowest rates at 3.6%. Much of the rest of the world is considerably higher. Reply
  • melgross - Wednesday, September 05, 2012 - link

    Actually about 1.5%. The 3.6% is the total of Win Mobile, still being sold in small amounts to certain accounts, and Win Phone together. Reply
  • BabelHuber - Wednesday, September 05, 2012 - link

    Here:

    http://communities-dominate.blogs.com/brands/2012/...

    INSTALLED BASE OF SMARTPHONES BY OPERATING SYSTEM AS OF Q2 2012

    Rank . OS Platform . . . . . . Units . . . . . Market share . . Was in Q1 of 2012

    1 . . . . Android . . . . . . . . . 427 M . . . . . 41 % . . . . . . . . ( 32 %)

    2 . . . . Symbian . . . . . . . . 259 M . . . . . 25 % . . . . . . . . ( 30 %)

    3 . . . . iOS . . . . . . . . . . . 198 M . . . . . 19 % . . . . . . . . ( 18 %)

    4 . . . . Blackberry . . . . . . 108 M . . . . . 10 % . . . . . . . . ( 11 %)

    5 . . . . bada . . . . . . . . . . . . 19 M . . . . . 2 % . . . . . . . . (

    6 . . . . Windows Phone . . . . 14 M . . . . . 1 % . . . . . . . . (

    7 . . . . Windows Mobile . . . . 13 M . . . . 1 % . . . . . . . . (

    Others . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 21 M . . . . . 2 % . . . . . . . . ( 3 %)

    TOTAL Installed Base . . . 1,059 M smartphones in use at end of Q2 2012

    Source: TomiAhonen Consulting Estimates August 15, 2012 from vendor data and other sources

    This table may be freely distributed


    Contrary to the rumors like 'The Lumia sold better than the iPhone' etc., WP7 has not gained traction internationally - at least so far.

    But I don't think it will get better.
    Reply
  • Myrandex - Wednesday, September 05, 2012 - link

    Unfortuantely catering to your unique use case is not the goal here. And average end users do not generally walk into a store and ask if it supports those features either.

    And installing apps through an App Store still gives you the ability to decide what to install...it just limits the source of where the installation can take place, meaning only the app store and not side loaded.
    Reply
  • BabelHuber - Wednesday, September 05, 2012 - link

    Catering to my unique goal?

    I remember being at a customer, where I wanted to hold a PowerPoint presentation. When my notebook refused to connect to the beamer and nobody had a USB stick at hand, I simply used my phone to transfer the files to another notebook.

    All these iOS-users were shocked that a phone could be used for such a task, without an additional bloatware like iTunes.

    Some even still claim that such a feature is unnecessary, even though it came in handy for me several times

    Android and even Symbian support all the features I have listed, and even more, like rSAP, rooting etc.

    I just need to look at my colleagues at work. Two years ago almost everybody had a Nokia.

    Now everybody has switched, some to iOS, some to Android. But nobody seriously considered buying WP7.

    For the guys caring about the coolness factor of an iPhone, WP7 seemingly wasn't cool enough. For those who prefer a flexible OS, ndroid is the way to go.
    Reply
  • risa2000 - Wednesday, September 05, 2012 - link

    Just for my suddenly raised curiosity. Which Android phones support rSAP? Reply
  • BabelHuber - Wednesday, September 05, 2012 - link

    Samsung Galaxy S ans S2.

    Samsung was stupid enough to remove rSAP with 4.03, though. After complains from customers it will return with 4.04, though.

    I use the SGS2 with 4.11 AOSP and this rSAP App (requires root):

    http://www.android-rsap.com/
    Reply
  • Myrandex - Wednesday, September 05, 2012 - link

    Windows Mobile 6.1 supported that feature too and so much more. Trust me I understand and I've used them, but still the general public that purchases the majority of the phones sold today don't walk in with a checklist of features, specifically ones that technical, and base their decision off of that. Many friends of mine with various Android devices don't buy them for power reasons like that. App availability is the biggest factor I hear average consumers talking about, specifically good apps that are free. Reply
  • Myrandex - Wednesday, September 05, 2012 - link

    I know plenty of people that bought various models and all that did liked them all quite a bit. But I do agree, it didn't sell as well as it could have. Reply
  • melgross - Wednesday, September 05, 2012 - link

    I just checked. The markets aren't impressed so far. Nokia is down 6.5% right now (10:34 am NY time). Reply
  • Meck - Wednesday, September 05, 2012 - link

    All we're getting from Kevin is " It works great, it works terrific ". Erm.......Sorry Kevin, I'll be the best judge of that mate!!! Reply
  • melgross - Wednesday, September 05, 2012 - link

    Well, keeping track of the market now has Nokia down by about 11.5%!

    Frankly, I'm shocked! I expected the stock to go up a couple of points at least, considering it's been moving by more than that, up or down on no information about the company at all. This is a disaster, so far.

    There doesn't seem to be a belief that this will be a success.
    Reply
  • melgross - Wednesday, September 05, 2012 - link

    Sorry to be harping on this, but still keeping track. Down now by more than 13.5%!

    This is hard to believe. I'd slap myself to make sure I'm awake, but the pain isn't worth it. ;-)

    Interesting that Microsoft isn't, so far, being tired by the same brush. In a mixed market, they're only down right now by about 0.05%. Very strange, and wp8 is supposedly tied up as far as success goes, to Nokia.
    Reply
  • powerarmour - Wednesday, September 05, 2012 - link

    Epic fail indeed, MS will likely feel the pain properly after the Win8 launch, this is just the Apéritif Reply
  • powerarmour - Wednesday, September 05, 2012 - link

    So Windows Phone 8 could possibly be the best mobile OS out there, and the Nokia Lumia 920 the best built phone...

    Still doesn't unfortunately change the fact that it just isn't 'cool'... Microsoft as a brand is suffering from a huge lack of cool at the moment, and so is Nokia it seems.

    Wouldn't want to see either of them circling the toilet bowl in future, but it could happen.
    Reply
  • melgross - Wednesday, September 05, 2012 - link

    I think one problem is that Microsoft chose the wrong concept. People like their phones, and want to use them, while Microsoft has been pushing the idea that people waste too much time with them, and that Win Phone allows them to get on, and right off again.

    Also, people like to accumulate apps, with the average being at least 50 right now, and Win Phone has no easy way to move between them.
    Reply
  • Belard - Wednesday, September 05, 2012 - link

    Other problems has to do with high Lumia 900 failure rates in Europe... read some of the blogs over there. Like a 1-month old handset that the store nor Nokia want to take care of.

    Most WP7 handsets from non-nokia companies look like standard mid-range phones for Android.
    Reply
  • TrainSister - Wednesday, September 05, 2012 - link

    What's the 920 screen size? Reply
  • karasaj - Wednesday, September 05, 2012 - link

    4.5" 1280x768 I believe (1280x720 maybe?) Reply
  • doubledeej - Wednesday, September 05, 2012 - link

    4.5", 1280x768. Reply

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