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  • solipsism - Monday, August 27, 2012 - link

    "Thus it seems highly likely that Apple will also move to this chemistry given maturity and the tangible benefits it provides to battery lifetime."

    What do you mean by maturity and tangible benefits? Why couldn't any of these vendors used 3.8V before?
    Reply
  • mfenn - Monday, August 27, 2012 - link

    You don't just call up the battery fairy and ask her to set your battery to a certain voltage. Instead, a battery's terminal voltage is largely determined by the different compounds that you use as the anode and cathode, hence chemistry. Reply
  • aguilpa1 - Tuesday, August 28, 2012 - link

    Well I called up the battery fair..., she put me on hold. Reply
  • ImSpartacus - Wednesday, September 05, 2012 - link

    Is the Battery Fairy a meme yet?

    http://www.anandtech.com/show/6230/the-anandtech-p...
    Reply
  • Brian Klug - Monday, August 27, 2012 - link

    Well Motorola used the 3.8 V nominal chemistry for over a year successfully. I guess what I mean is that for Apple to ship that (and now we see Samsung doing the same with SGS3, Nokia with PureView 808, etc) the cell chemistry and manufacturing needs to be mature enough that they're guaranteed volume sufficient for it to not be the limiting component in the supply chain.

    -Brian
    Reply
  • Penti - Wednesday, August 29, 2012 - link

    If the Koreans and Japanese can build the cells then the Taiwanese firms / suppliers building Apples batteries can also utilize 3.8 V chemistry obviously. Hardly a technology that Apple would push much but it seems the 3.8V nominal tech is mature. As you say. Tooling and process would appear to work out if it's already out in tens of millions of devices. Really depends on requirements from Apple, it's not like they have set their mind on a particular cell supplier or battery assembly company. If they can source it successfully from the battery suppliers I doubt they care much about the details further back the supply chain so long that they or those companies can keep up and deliver. It's technology only a few companies in the world have mastered, we in the west can at best hope to assemble the components here pretty much.

    Samsung SDI Cells according to the shots here, I would think they have that technology and manufacturing process well developed. Normally Dynapack and Simplo who assembles the batteries for them. We'll have to wait and see, at least they are hardly expected to move to high-capacity batteries. Don't know if BYD, LG Chem, Panasonic, Sony and the rest etc is ready to ship this chemistry though. Samsung SDI and LG Chem should have most of the market and have moved quite far along there. Using the best Samsung cells when it becomes a commodity makes sense I guess.
    Reply
  • Azethoth - Tuesday, August 28, 2012 - link

    You really do want to not blaze new trails with the battery since a wrong move can leave you with an incendiary product which is not that good for sales. Maturity means its been proven out on other devices that are not in your pants all day long. Reply
  • Jingato - Tuesday, August 28, 2012 - link

    And people say Apple is Innovative. Reply
  • Nfarce - Tuesday, August 28, 2012 - link

    Well they are certainly innovative at destroying competition. Reply
  • swb311 - Tuesday, August 28, 2012 - link

    Destroying THE competition? Reply
  • Samus - Wednesday, August 29, 2012 - link

    This phone is going to be substantially inferior to the Galaxy S III and the HTX One, and not to pour salt on the soon to be open wound, but Apple is going to depend on this outdated device to be their flagship for the next 10-12 months. Samsung will have at least one, if not TWO, next generation Galaxy devices released by then.

    No wonder they're suing them out of business. Apple is clearly scared of fair competition, because they can't win.
    Reply
  • michael2k - Wednesday, August 29, 2012 - link

    When has copying been called fair competition?

    Anandtech's preview clearly says that the S3's performance increase is due to the bump in clock and improved software stack, both of which also apply to the iPhone Next.
    Reply
  • doobydoo - Wednesday, August 29, 2012 - link

    How can you say this phone is going to be substantially inferior to the SG3 when the 10 month old iPhone 4S has a superior GPU to the American SG3, released recently?

    It also has better battery life, along with the rest of benefits it gets via iOS and Apple's app store.
    Reply
  • utsava - Wednesday, August 29, 2012 - link

    As if hardware specs are the only thing that makes a smartphone great. Go try the quad-core 2GB RAM Galaxy Note 10.1 and let me know how fast it is to use. Reply
  • solinear - Tuesday, August 28, 2012 - link

    Like how they destroyed Microsoft, right?

    I give them 5 years before they fall apart. It's like Steve knew they were screwed, so he built up a new business plan called "Sue everyone over and over and over and over and over until the name Apple is equated with the RIAA"
    Reply
  • FalcomPSX - Tuesday, August 28, 2012 - link

    The difference between Apple and the RIAA though is that RIAA sues teenagers and grandmothers. Apple sues large corporations, not their own customer base. I dont like Apple's tactics either, but they are no where near as bad as the RIAA. Reply
  • A5 - Monday, August 27, 2012 - link

    This is all pretty much in line with what I was thinking.

    The Amazon and Samsung events the week before will also be interesting, then I guess there's the iPad Mini rumors for October - after that I guess we'll be waiting for the crazy CES stuff!
    Reply
  • faizoff - Monday, August 27, 2012 - link

    Definitely the best speculation article I've read so far. Reply
  • Dug - Monday, August 27, 2012 - link

    Agree. Finally an educated look at what can happen. Reply
  • Dekker - Tuesday, August 28, 2012 - link

    Agree. Reply
  • MatthiasP - Tuesday, August 28, 2012 - link

    I'm missing some wild speculation about the camera. Reply
  • Alchemy69 - Monday, August 27, 2012 - link

    So, basically it will be a tweaked 4S with a case sufficiently different that everyone knows you have the new one. I find that all too believable. Reply
  • A5 - Tuesday, August 28, 2012 - link

    Bigger screen + LTE + higher clocks are a fairly significant set of changes. Reply
  • GotThumbs - Tuesday, August 28, 2012 - link

    Exactly!

    Apple will again be able to sell yet another generation iphone to its current iphone owners....so they can be the "first on the block". Seems kids just never grow up. It's still about having ice-cream and you don't. I'd like to know what the real difference is...other than fixing the flawed antenna and LTE. Oh! a means to get every Apple owner to buy new accessories to fit the new port connection.

    While I'll Never own an Apple product, I find Apple has been very savvy in getting the general consumer market to walk freely into Apples walled garden of control and zero options. When will the DOJ file against Apple for its Itunes requirement and its anti-competitive ways? The sheep number in the millions and I just keep watching from outside the walled garden.

    Interesting enough story. Since this is all based on conjecture.

    I find it interesting that Apples playbook seems to repeat itself, but hey their making billions on each incremental generation of one phone. Whats the saying...."A fool and his money.....?

    Best wishes,
    Reply
  • jrswizzle - Tuesday, August 28, 2012 - link

    Aside from your wild generalizations about Apple users, I find the hatred for iTunes amusing. You are by no means the only person to express a deep loathing for the program but what I can't seem to figure out is why?

    With the advent of iCloud, the only time I use iTunes is as a media player through my computer or to sync up my old iPod classic. What is so awful about Mac's default media player that it would warrant a DOJ filing? There are other media players out there for music on your iPhone: pandora, spotify just to name a few and I'd argue they'd probably save the avid music fan some dough.

    My only complaint with the program is its support for legacy devices which makes it a monster in terms of computer resources, but this is being rectified with the new update this fall (as they vastly reduce the iPod line imo).

    We get that you hate Apple and love your "open source" OSes. But those of us who prefer simplicity, ease of use and stability will continue to use Apple products. We don't need your pity or your baseless, and offensive, generalizations about our CHOICES.
    Reply
  • jrswizzle - Tuesday, August 28, 2012 - link

    As for the article, it makes perfect sense. Apple has never been one to add features for the sake of adding features. If it improves the overall user experience you can bet they'll include it. It's not about doing things that are new and different, its about doing things better. And of the features iOS devices have, I can only think of 1 Android does better (Google Now vs. Siri). Reply
  • Assimilator87 - Tuesday, August 28, 2012 - link

    I hope Apple surprises us and throws in a 32nm A5X. I'll be jumping ship to iOS when my Palm Pre 2 dies. I've used Android on my tablet and the much smaller game selection, on top of the fragmentation due to all the SoCs, makes it excruciating. Reply
  • name99 - Tuesday, August 28, 2012 - link

    It's bizarre that the people who go on about "sheep" behavior seem the most clueless about human psychology.

    As I have said before, the issue is not coolness, it is delight.

    - coolness is other directed. It was what other companies ship. It is about how OTHER people view you and your device. It is about having a few gimmicks you can show others so that they ooh and ahh.
    - what Apple ships is not coolness, it is DELIGHT. Delight is SELF-DIRECTED. It is about devices that bring you joy day after day, and who cares whether they demo well, or can be shown to others.

    Samsung, right now, is a company that cares a lot about coolness, and nothing about delight. That's why, to take a recent example, they ship a Note 10.1 with two flashy features you can show your friends --- pen, and the equivalent of MacOS 1.0's desk accessories, allowing you to open multiple apps at once --- but both these features actually perform horrendously. They do the cool job fine --- show them to your friends for a few minutes and they will be impressed --- but they do the delight job abysmally.

    And one of the ways that you engender delight is what Apple is doing here, constant refinement . When you buy your next phone, it feels familiar --- just better in every way.
    Reply
  • Tegeril - Tuesday, August 28, 2012 - link

    This, exactly. Reply
  • JoshAlfie - Tuesday, August 28, 2012 - link

    This is actually a very interesting analysis. Nice one. Reply
  • KoolAidMan1 - Tuesday, August 28, 2012 - link

    Unless you're a Linux using neckbeard (and I'd bet money that you aren't), then your entire post is trash.

    And if you are a Linux using neckbeard, sucks to be you
    Reply
  • Focher - Tuesday, August 28, 2012 - link

    Funny that each generation of iPhone is just an upgrade to all the previous generation iPhone owners. Of course, we wouldn't want math to get in the way of that assertion so let's just assume every iPhone owner will buy at least two of the next version. Some even more!

    Also interesting is your claim that the article is based on conjecture after two whole paragraphs of exactly that which you disdain. By the way, I would suggest you look up that word in a dictionary. Because an article that analyzes leaked pictures of the hardware and then makes predictions based on those items doesn't at all fit the definition of that word.
    Reply
  • inplainview - Wednesday, August 29, 2012 - link

    Obviously someone has given you the impression that your purchasing decisions matter to the masses. No one really cares what you will and will not buy. Reply
  • Super56K - Friday, August 31, 2012 - link

    I love these posts. It gives the vibe of someone standing on a street corner holding a 'THE WORLD IS ENDING' sign; giving the same spiel, over and over, to anyone who makes eye contact. Reply
  • solipsism - Tuesday, August 28, 2012 - link

    If by tweak, you mean completely redesigned, then yeah. Reply
  • ramnam - Monday, August 27, 2012 - link

    Would using a backplate made of the liquidmetal stuff mitigate concerns about it acting as a ground for the NFC field ? I understand Apple licensed the technology a while back Reply
  • jrswizzle - Tuesday, August 28, 2012 - link

    This is an on-again, off-again rumor I hope comes to pass. Though the head of the company who produces the liquid metal said it would be years before they'd be able to produce the stuff on the mass scale needed for a device like the iPhone to be made of it. Reply
  • swb311 - Tuesday, August 28, 2012 - link

    Several years away unfortunately Reply
  • jwcalla - Monday, August 27, 2012 - link

    If true it's a rather conservative update at a time when the competition is getting pretty fierce. You can't be too risk-averse in this business. Reply
  • jjj - Monday, August 27, 2012 - link

    there is a bigger screen there so battery life might not be any better.
    as for the SoC,they mgiht go for dual A9 (they certainly won't go quad) but that's so far behind the top phones that they really should do more.
    The iPhone is the new dumbphone but still quad Krait vs dual A9, is just lol.
    Reply
  • alxx - Tuesday, August 28, 2012 - link

    but do ordinary consumers really care about whats under the hood(unlike us) ?

    A phone that works and with good battery life.
    And whats on special at the carriers with a decent plan wins over the phone choice most of the time.
    Reply
  • swb311 - Tuesday, August 28, 2012 - link

    False, iOS is a thrifty OS that uses resources far better and efficiently than an off-the-shelf component thanks to Apple's custom designed silicon. So it may not look the same on paper, but the processor will feel just as fast. No one needs a quad core phone yet (apps are not prepared) so why take the battery hit? I'd rather have an upclocked dual core honestly. Reply
  • KoolAidMan1 - Tuesday, August 28, 2012 - link

    "The iPhone is the new dumbphone"

    Considering that the iOS app selection is the best and largest of any mobile ecosystem, I'd say no, pretty much the opposite
    Reply
  • KoolAidMan1 - Tuesday, August 28, 2012 - link

    "they mgiht go for dual A9 (they certainly won't go quad) but that's so far behind the top phones"

    Even most PC applications don't use quad-cores, forget smartphones. No smartphone multitasks applications enough where quads would really matter. We're a few years away from where quad core SoCs are needed in cellphones. Until then it is marketing for neckbeards who look at spec pages without regard to practical usage scenarios or performance.
    Reply
  • iampivot - Monday, August 27, 2012 - link

    What about a fingerprint scanner?

    It seems obvious that one could be included in the home button, which would facilitate instantaneous verification of the user when doing NFC purchases.
    Reply
  • 8steve8 - Tuesday, August 28, 2012 - link

    no a15? Reply
  • A5 - Tuesday, August 28, 2012 - link

    Won't be ready and it wouldn't fit Apple's supply chain model to take a risk like that on the CPU. The article lays out the reasoning pretty clearly. Reply
  • iwod - Tuesday, August 28, 2012 - link

    Not a faster SoC really annoys me, Krait from Qualcomm and Tegra etc... Quad Core ARM A9,
    a simple die shrinks? Or may be they bump the Frequency to 1.5Ghz or higher?
    Reply
  • Dekker - Tuesday, August 28, 2012 - link

    Even in the PC world the benefit of quad core is limited for many types of usage (email, web and office hardly benefit at all). I'm not convinced that absent a proper multitasking model in Android/iOS there is much benefit to going quad core (particularly if it reduces battery life). At this stage a slightly faster clock or more memory seems to be a more viable approach. Reply
  • iwod - Tuesday, August 28, 2012 - link

    On PC we have Dual Thread from Single Core which accounts for 4 Threads with Dual Core. Mobile Dual Core we are still stuck at 2 threads. For the usage on mobile 4 threads will properly bring less benefits then on Desktop, but still large enough to warrant it. Having more then 2 threads for running the OS and Apps would help. Although we may wait big.LITTLE for that. Dual Core Cortex A7 + Dual Core Cortex A15.

    The Samsung GS3 has 4 Core 1.4Ghz SoC, I will have to see how Apple will pull its marketing and convince me to buy a Phone that is MUCH less powerful, and possibly even more expensive.
    Reply
  • doobydoo - Wednesday, August 29, 2012 - link

    The SG3 has a 1.5 GHz MSM8960 Dual Core Krait, not a quad core - in the USA. Reply
  • 8steve8 - Tuesday, August 28, 2012 - link

    Krait is much faster per core, quad core isn't the only or best way to improve performance. Reply
  • swb311 - Tuesday, August 28, 2012 - link

    I'd guess about 1.2 Ghz. which will be more than enough Reply
  • tipoo - Monday, September 10, 2012 - link

    My best hope would be that they put those chip designer purchases to good use and pulled a Krait, no need for apps to use four cores, just two faster cores. Reply
  • Aikouka - Tuesday, August 28, 2012 - link

    I see people talk about the litigation with Samsung affecting Apple's relations with Samsung, but I don't really suspect that is the case. The reason is that Samsung is a rather large company, and if you've worked for a large company before, you know how separate the different business areas truly can be. Do you think Samsung Foundries (the business area that handles chip manufacturing) really wants to hurt their numbers just because Samsung Mobility (the business area that handles mobile devices) is in a spat with one of their customers? I *highly* doubt it. Samsung Foundries more than likely passes up its financials just like Samsung Mobility to the overall corporation, and I highly doubt that they want to report such a large delta as losing Apple would be. Apple just wants what's best for Apple, which might be switching to TSMC as you mentioned.

    In other words, I don't see Samsung (Foundries) dumping Apple, but rather Apple dumping Samsung (Foundries).
    Reply
  • akibakun - Tuesday, August 28, 2012 - link

    Dear Editor,

    There are some politically charged watermarks Japanese in the phones posted on the NFC page. MacRumors has censored the watermarks.

    http://www.macrumors.com/2012/08/26/photos-of-asse...

    You may want to do the same.
    Reply
  • etamin - Tuesday, August 28, 2012 - link

    So Xiaomi is going to have a Krait device in the market before a Cortex A15 device comes to market? Reply
  • alxx - Tuesday, August 28, 2012 - link

    Would be nice to see a rouge gpu core but probably unlikely maybe in ipad mini

    Will be interesting to see if the updated itunes drops this year for one of the product launches or have to wait until early next year.

    No sure that a lot of people are going like Apple's maps app.
    It loads slower than google maps(iphone 4) and the level of detail is different for icons/places/shops(some worse some much better)

    Seems to do directions better than google maps
    Reply
  • swb311 - Tuesday, August 28, 2012 - link

    It's in beta. It will actually load faster thanks to vectored graphics. Reply
  • alxx - Tuesday, August 28, 2012 - link

    No kidding. How else do you think I'm using it.

    At the moment its not loading faster and is getting stalls worse than google maps
    Reply
  • alxx - Tuesday, August 28, 2012 - link

    or buy it to replace iphone 4 with starting to fade batteries Reply
  • plext0r - Tuesday, August 28, 2012 - link

    That's my dilemma. IPhone "Next" or SGS3. :) I currently have the iPhone 4. Reply
  • ltcommanderdata - Tuesday, August 28, 2012 - link

    Hopefully Apple adopts a wide gamut IPS screen for the next gen iPhone as they've done for the 2012 iPad.

    It's too bad Apple's Q3 iPhone release schedule leaves them at an awkward time at the tail end of this silicon generation. Sticking to a 32nm A5, a 50% clock speed bump over the iPhone 4S to 1.2GHz seems reasonable and would be well positioned at launch. However, competition will come very quickly with Cortex A15 based CPUs and OpenGL ES 3.0 capable GPUs in Q4 and Q1 2013.
    Reply
  • alxx - Tuesday, August 28, 2012 - link

    In A15 chips are up to speed and ready in time.

    Has any A15 based chip been public-ally demoed over 1GHz yet ?
    Reply
  • leomax999 - Tuesday, August 28, 2012 - link

    Exynos 5250 in disguise at SIGGRAPH. Reply
  • krumme - Tuesday, August 28, 2012 - link

    Iphone buyers dont buy specs
    Except when Apple tells them to do

    Therefore Apple can be as conservative and innovative as is needed in the market situation. No other company have that luxury.
    Reply
  • Tegeril - Tuesday, August 28, 2012 - link

    Sigh. Reply
  • doobydoo - Thursday, September 06, 2012 - link

    The only reason iPhone buyers don't buy specs is that specs have never been an issue for iPhone users.

    That is to say, the software and apps have always run flawlessly on iOS.

    The same can't be said for Android.

    As for why this is the case? Look no further than the tight integration between hardware and software combined with, for example, the fact that the iPhone 4S has the fastest GPU in any smartphone in America.
    Reply
  • rupaniii - Tuesday, August 28, 2012 - link

    I'm guessing Power teaked version of the A15 core in Dual configuration, along with the top of the line PowerVR in Dual GPU configuration. It's got to be a world beater. Definitely worldwide LTE locked at carrier level.

    If not, Snapdragon S4Pro will own it.
    Reply
  • A5 - Tuesday, August 28, 2012 - link

    None of those designs (A15 or PowerVR 6-series) are ready yet. Apple has never been one to fight the spec war, and I don't see any of that changing now. Reply
  • macs - Tuesday, August 28, 2012 - link

    There goes my hope for Cortex A15... Sad Reply
  • tipoo - Monday, September 10, 2012 - link

    Well A15 just wasn't ready yet, but I hope they do something in between like Krait. Reply
  • Frallan - Tuesday, August 28, 2012 - link


    I understand that the focus of the writers shift and the pieces that are produced regardless of area are of the highest quality. I also understand that the site has to go where the consumers money goes.

    But [RANT] I find it sad that Anandtech has become an iSite. looking back there are more and more iArticles and less and less of everything else. if this trend continues another year you will have to rebrand the site iAnandtech - allthough you probably get sued to hell and back if you did. [/RANT]

    Pleas bring back the computer related articles. More GPU/CPU/SSD/HDD/SERVER and less iDevices.

    BR
    /F
    Reply
  • hlovatt - Tuesday, August 28, 2012 - link

    I just looked on AnandTech front page; there is exactly one Apple article, this one! That count includes the pipeline articles. For such a major player this does not seem excessive.

    Add to that, that Apple is a major innovator, produces original designs, introduces new technology, and retires older technology much more aggressively than other manufacturers.

    Why wouldn't a tech site that looks to the future cover Apple? Would you really rather them cover Dell? We would all die of boredom!
    Reply
  • jwcalla - Tuesday, August 28, 2012 - link

    "Add to that, that Apple is a major innovator, produces original designs, introduces new technology, and retires older technology much more aggressively than other manufacturers."

    Were you able to write that with a straight face? If this article is anywhere near accurate, it barely brings the iPhone up to spec with year-old Android phones.

    The guy has a good point: Apple rides on so much media hype that they could literally smear a turd on the touchscreen and the reviews would be glowing. Which smartphone out there has garnered a five-page article here just to cover the rumored specs?

    Yeah, I get it -- "it's the iPhone". But being "the iPhone" shouldn't automatically grant it unwarranted hype, especially for a site where technical merits should be one of the highest considerations. Look at the thing objectively: spec'd out it's a rather mediocre smartphone. Would Apple's products truly be relevant without all the hype?
    Reply
  • observerr - Tuesday, August 28, 2012 - link

    I don't think you know what literally means. Reply
  • swb311 - Tuesday, August 28, 2012 - link

    Don't get caught up by marketing. A 1GHz dual-core A5 can be every bit as fast as a newer quad core processor. A lot more goes into processor speed than pure specs. Apple custom makes their operating system AND chips so that they work together MUCH better than an off-the-shelf component like the Exynos or Krait. Just like their laptops, Apple software does more with less. So just because it doesn't look like it matches an Android phone on paper doesn't mean that it won't feel (be) faster in your hand. The fact of the matter is, as has been stated in these comments and on this blog, quad core processors are relatively useless unless software is threaded properly. Trust me, if Apple needed a quad-core processor it would put one in its phone. Android phones must distinguish themselves from EACH OTHER, hence the spec war which means almost nothing these days. Reply
  • alxx - Tuesday, August 28, 2012 - link

    A5 (not A15) is designed to run at slower clocks and much lower power than A9 Reply
  • KoolAidMan1 - Tuesday, August 28, 2012 - link

    "it barely brings the iPhone up to spec with year-old Android phones"

    A new Galaxy S3 is just now competitive with an iPhone 4S, and there are still new Tegra 3 Android tablets that are outperformed by a 2011 iPad 2.

    How were YOU able to write that with a straight face?
    Reply
  • doobydoo - Wednesday, August 29, 2012 - link

    Um, actually, in America, no Android manufacturers have caught up with the iPhone 4S - which still has the fastest GPU in any American smartphone. 10 months on.

    You're evidently simplistic method of comparing performance makes me cringe.
    Reply
  • Super56K - Friday, August 31, 2012 - link

    jwcalla, you're (selectively?) forgetting the obvious: Apple is a major player that sells a ton of gadgets, but maintains a small product portfolio. Whether you want to see them fail or succeed, it brings in everyone. Want to kill the hype machine? Do your part and not click these articles or talk about it with others. Can't do that? Well, that's hype for you. Reply
  • Super56K - Friday, August 31, 2012 - link

    You are a sad individual. 1(!) current Apple article is too many for you? Really? Reply
  • Torrijos - Tuesday, August 28, 2012 - link

    While they're always nice to get a good result in some benchmarks I doubt their usefulness right now, even with Apple pushing an easy to implement concurrency/distribution model with Grand Central Dispatch most apps aren't going to benefit directly from quad cores CPU without further optimization.

    The type of apps that push the phones to their limits right now are games, and in that area Apple keeps providing very good GPU (still unbeaten in the tablet market).

    It would be pretty interesting to know the kind of influence network performance has on real life usage...
    While some web-centric benchmarks show quad cores outperforming old CPU badly, would those benefits disappear when browsing in a slow area connection? At what effective bandwidth is the new CPU unable to provide better global performance?
    This could be tested by limiting your server upload bandwidth on the wifi, to simulated a non-optimal connection area.
    Reply
  • versesuvius - Tuesday, August 28, 2012 - link

    No matter which theft of ideas, apple manages to turn into glossy status symbols, no one should buy any iSh.. anymore. iSh.. has turned into a symbol of stupidity and greed all over the world.

    Just as brandishing an Apple product would say something, now owning a non iSh... makes the same statement quite forcefully.

    Sh.. yourself none. Don't buy iSh..!
    Reply
  • A5 - Tuesday, August 28, 2012 - link

    Oh man, you're so clever! You really convinced everyone with that amazing argument! Thanks! Reply
  • versesuvius - Tuesday, August 28, 2012 - link

    Thank you, very much! I know I am happy with no iSh.. polluting my environment. Your environment is up to you, which is painfully obvious anyway. Reply
  • swb311 - Tuesday, August 28, 2012 - link

    Who let you onto the internet? Reply
  • versesuvius - Tuesday, August 28, 2012 - link

    I assure you that I was here before you were born. I read Anand's first article(s) on a 5.6 kbps dial up modem. I know what I am talking about. Shed the iSh.. . It is that time of the day! Reply
  • KoolAidMan1 - Tuesday, August 28, 2012 - link

    I see, so you're old AND stupid. Fantastic :) Reply
  • versesuvius - Tuesday, August 28, 2012 - link

    Yeah, just like your parents.

    Youth is a gift that you obviously do not deserve. It is good to see that it is wasted on iSh..!
    Reply
  • Super56K - Friday, August 31, 2012 - link

    It's troubling that you pull the seniority card while sounding like a teenager with all the iSlander and hyperbole. I understand having dislike for company or brand X, but this is honestly the best way you have to voice that? Reply
  • Focher - Tuesday, August 28, 2012 - link

    If you had any dedication to your principles, you would be wandering the streets and castigating people whom you see with Apple products. if you choose to do this, I suggest focusing on any nearby bus or subway so you don't stand out. Reply
  • versesuvius - Wednesday, August 29, 2012 - link

    Not getting hit by an iSh.. will do just fine.

    Actually a good advice for iSh.. consumers, though.
    Reply
  • cjs150 - Tuesday, August 28, 2012 - link

    Beautiful design, great OS has everything a smart phone should have, and best battery life but...

    Why is it still rubbish at the basis function all phones should do - make and receive phone calls.

    In my office we run a mixture of phones some old style bricks, iPhones and Samsungs Galaxy IIs.

    The iPhone is by some distance the most flaky at phone calls, too many drop outs, voices fading out for no apparent reason. Even some friends who work very closely with Apple agree, if viewed purely as a phone with no "smarts", it is significantly weaker than 5 year old bricks from Nokia
    Reply
  • iwod - Tuesday, August 28, 2012 - link

    Sure that is not some thing to do with carrier rather then phone? Reply
  • cjs150 - Tuesday, August 28, 2012 - link

    At work we are all on the same carrier.

    The iPhone is simply not good enough at phone calls. It is fine with a strong signal and you do not move around, but if walking and signal fades then iPhone will drop the call faster than any other phone we use, or just go silent
    Reply
  • ajp_anton - Tuesday, August 28, 2012 - link

    With a larger device allowing a physically larger battery, why does its capacity increase by such a meaningless amount? Reply
  • A5 - Tuesday, August 28, 2012 - link

    I think it is thinner, so the overall volume isn't that different despite being larger in L and W. Reply
  • yankeeDDL - Tuesday, August 28, 2012 - link

    I am not really sure what I expected, but is anyone else disappointed as I am?
    I am not an aApple user, and I will likely not become one after the iPhone5 is released, but I am interested in the trends, especially on the phones that are expected to set the standards.
    The larger screen is a welcomed addition: for me 4" is the minimum in a smartphone, so I am glad that the iPhone caught up.
    But no NFC? I am looking forward to NFC taking place and stop bringing my wallet around .. this won't hapen until all the mainstream phones will support it, so that's disappointing.
    The phone also doesn't seem to have anything revolutionary ... which is probably the intention. Still, I was hoping to see the screen size take up nearly all the area of the phone, while it doesn't.
    And what's with yet another proprietary connector? Why not USB + headphones, like every other normal phone?
    I thought that the EU passed a regulation that every phone should have a standard charger. I guess I was wrong.
    And what about making it easier to have an extra battery at the expense of slickness? My first mobile phone, 20 years ago, had 2 types of back cover: a thin/ligt and a thick/long-lasting. Can't compare really, but that phone lasted 2 weeks on a full charge with medium use (only a "phone" of course).

    Mah!
    Reply
  • MatthiasP - Tuesday, August 28, 2012 - link

    For you 4" are the minimum, for me it's pretty much the maximum for a device i have to carry around. I'm glad there is atleast one highend phone that isn't so ridiculously big. Reply
  • gilesrulz - Tuesday, August 28, 2012 - link

    You're admittedly not an Apple user or a future Apple user, so why would Apple build a phone for you?

    While there may be a small population that share your desire for NFC and mobile payments generally, for most it is a solution looking for a problem (at least in the US - I have read interesting use cases for the developing world).

    As for the proprietary port, there was an exception put into the law that allows for adapters to USB, which is what Apple has bee providing since the law went into effect.
    Reply
  • alxx - Tuesday, August 28, 2012 - link

    NFC I'd prefer not to have until the security bugs are worked out it.

    Personally I prefer a phone that fits in my pocket (shirt and pants) and doesn't need a bag or belt clip to carry it
    Reply
  • mantikos - Tuesday, August 28, 2012 - link

    Stop the hobby product BS, its a failed product...there is nothing known as a hobby product...if Surface flops tomorrow, would you be kind enough to call it just a 'prime the pump' product because MSFT called it that?! Reply
  • gilesrulz - Tuesday, August 28, 2012 - link

    The have sold more than 4.2 million of them (2nd Gen). It is not a "failed product" or a "flop". Reply
  • jamyryals - Tuesday, August 28, 2012 - link

    Exactly right, it's only a hobby product for Apple because in comparison to their other revenue streams it's tiny. For almost any other companies selling 4 million of anything would be a huge success. I bet Google wishes they'd sold even 1 million Qs. Reply
  • KoolAidMan1 - Tuesday, August 28, 2012 - link

    How is it failed? It sells more than the XBox 360, that's pretty successful for a consumer gadget.

    It may be a hobby compared to an iPhone or iPad, but anything else is small in comparison. The iPhone alone makes more revenue and profit than Windows and Office combined.
    Reply
  • Doormat - Tuesday, August 28, 2012 - link

    Any word on whether its feasible for IGZO screens or not? 50-90% lower power consumption. Reply
  • swb311 - Tuesday, August 28, 2012 - link

    IGZO is not for mobile right now. It's using In-Cell which might be confusing. IGZO is a replacement or different type of LCD which may end up in an eventual iTV or newer iMacs but definitely not in phones any time soon. Reply
  • HisDivineOrder - Tuesday, August 28, 2012 - link

    Please, please let them update the iPod Touch. It's beyond long in the tooth. Hell, I won't mind if they discontinue the iPod Touch line in favor of an iPad Mini line that is essentially the same thing at the same 4" diagonal of the iPhone, put the 7" iPad in as an iPad Air, and let the iPad become the Big-Daddy Pro of the iPad lineup. Reply
  • Ethaniel - Tuesday, August 28, 2012 - link

    I agree, I would love to see the iPod Touch updated, but no, I don´t want them to discontinue it. You have 90 percent of the iPhone´s functions without having to put a provider´s "ball and chain" in your ankle... oh, wait...

    My point is, I want a "tablet" that fits in my pocket. The closest thing so far without breaking the bank where I live is the current iPod Touch. If there are no updates, I guess I´ll grab the current gen.
    Reply
  • swb311 - Tuesday, August 28, 2012 - link

    I can trust you guys to put together solid research with a realistic view for worthwhile reading. Anandtech is certainly the most reliable site on technology on the internet. Reply
  • FordGT550 - Tuesday, August 28, 2012 - link

    Screen is too small! Reply
  • solarisking - Tuesday, August 28, 2012 - link

    Will this device be capable of supporting VoLTE when enabled by the network?

    Or would that require a new or different chip?

    I'm especially interested in improved voice quality that HD Voice would bring.
    Reply
  • name99 - Tuesday, August 28, 2012 - link

    Does anyone have an opinion on whether this will be the device that finally starts RF-MEMS filtering?

    There has been muttering about using RF-MEMS (with mechanical resonance filtering) for a few years now, and it seems like the tech should be close to ready, but I'm not yet aware of any commercialization.

    The closest thing that exists is WiSpry's RF-MEMS (used in one low-volume Samsung phone that came out in early 2012), but that device seems to be basically a shrink of traditional capacitor+inductor+resistor, not based on mechanical resonance. So it's still subject to the problems of stray capacitance+inductance.

    RF-MEMS, even if it costs quite a bit more, seems like a natural fit for Apple, more than any other company. In the first place it saves space, which we know Apple is obsessive about; in the second place it makes it rather easier to support a whole lot of different frequency bands (including the whole LTE band mess, and 5GHz WiFi) without the careful and painful tweaking that is necessary using traditional filters, where the inductances and capacitances from each filter spill over and mess up the nearby filters.

    I could see this as a perfect Apple move. MEMS is sexy, so it makes a good "rah rah we are still at the forefront of tech innovation in phones" item for the announcement speech; it also allows the phone to more of an LTE world-phone, and if Apple has a one or two year exclusive on whoever supplies them the RF-MEMS, it makes it more difficult for someone else to ship an LTE world-phone.
    Reply
  • FITCamaro - Tuesday, August 28, 2012 - link

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uIRBxRlsYR0 Reply
  • woggs - Tuesday, August 28, 2012 - link

    Just a quickly technical comment. NFC is only magnetically coupled, so isn't like a real antenna. A metal case, unless itself magnetic, won't block the magnetic field. But small size is still a limiter, so I'm not disputing the conclusion. I don't think the metal case is a limiter to NFC. Reply
  • worldbfree4me - Tuesday, August 28, 2012 - link

    Will the new I Phone have a Barometer to assist the A-GPS for altitude awareness? Thanks in advance. Reply
  • debillin - Wednesday, August 29, 2012 - link

    Anandtech, you are the gold standard of tech articles. I'm begging you, do not go down this road. You are above this. Apple rumors are incredibly over-reported. Leave these stories to lesser news sources.

    Sincerely, Annoyed longtime reader
    Reply
  • olivdeso - Wednesday, August 29, 2012 - link

    At first sight I thought this "NFC chip" was in fact a squared speaker, but now I am suspecting that it could be a pico projector... Reply
  • olivdeso - Wednesday, August 29, 2012 - link

    or a laser 3D scanning device may be? Reply
  • WaltFrench - Wednesday, August 29, 2012 - link

    Overall, this was a very interesting scan of the issues.

    But battery life is a huge issue for some users, and important to all. So I was a bit disappointed that after all that GREAT analysis of each of the major subsystems, the contributions to battery life weren't discussed.

    LTE is said to be especially battery-hungry in recent chips. Do the hypothesized baseband chips indeed gobble lots of juice? Approximately what milliwattage? And how about the expected screen tech? Screen efficiency was a major hit to power conservation on the Retina iPad; what can be expected here?

    And while iOS 6 is still NDA at best, Apple's been dealing with multi-core for a long time. Any credible guesses about the software's ability to downclock the whole CPU and/or cycle individual units on and off, based on previous iOS info?
    Reply
  • crankerchick - Wednesday, August 29, 2012 - link

    People always say, "I hate to bother you but..." and then proceed to bother you. "I hate to convince you, but..." and then proceed to inconvenience you. "I don't mean to be an a jerk it..." and the proceed to be a jerk. Don't say you don't usually like to engage in rumor mill and then basically lend your advice to what rumors make sense and which ones don't. I respect our conclusions and reasoning, and even think you are probably spot on, but I do think your article kind of does the "I hate to contribute to the rumor mill but..." and the contribute to the rumor mill, albeit backed by some sound analysis. I think you are in a dangerous arena for credibility if you travel down this road.

    That said, I hope you will touch on your thoughts and how they measured up once the device is announced. I have no doubt some others will do this for you and then comment on any areas where you were wrong.
    Reply
  • Toadster - Wednesday, August 29, 2012 - link

    LOL - I see what you did there!

    hopefully it's not a 12" cube phone ;)
    Reply
  • eanazag - Wednesday, August 29, 2012 - link

    I am guessing they will include 1GB of RAM as they did in the iPad 3 so that developers will have a consist playing field going forward.

    What remains a question is whether they will further upgrade the camera. I think they will leave the camera untouched. The front facing camera could use a boost - especially with the Facetime over cellular coming.

    Better battery life compared to the 4S would be very welcome. I have a 4 and won't touch the new iPhone unless it has 4G. I might even jump ship. I have been getting by with my 4G hotspot, but that is a pain. The charge on the hotspot is nowhere near as long as the phone.

    Honestly, I have a 4 and am still pretty happy with it. I do feel at times the single core is holding back performance. My biggest wants are addressed with turn-by-turn and 4G. The turn by turn still needs to prove itself.

    I am posting this from my iPad.

    I am very excited to see MS entering the tablet hardware business with the Surface. I really think Dell and HP have failed miserably with their hardware thus far. They could have done a better job on Windows 7 tablets. I thought MSI took the best approach with AMD's processor and 4GB of RAM. Atom's experience on the graphics side is horrid. HP/Dell knuckleheads trying to push 2GB max devices still running Windows 7. It is still Windows 7 and the best experience is in the 4GB or more arena. Windows 8 and Surface make a lot of sense; there is one scenario that I believe Apple is beat in the tablet space and that is docking. I have a company full of users who have laptops with 2 monitors, a mouse, and keyboard. No mouse support is just ignorant on iOS and no USB drive support. I think Apple has no desire to include mouse support because the iPad may then cut into its laptop sales.
    Reply
  • Origin64 - Thursday, August 30, 2012 - link

    First of all, how does moving the headphone jack to the bottom make sense? I like to listen to music with my phone in my pocket. Were I to buy the new iPhone, which I do admit is unlikely, I would have to do that with the phone upside down.

    Secondly, no 1280*720 is a dealbreaker. I want 720p movies at native resolution. Same goes for NFC. I don't see myself using it in the coming months, but I might just want to have it in two years.

    5Ghz wifi support is good news, although I think dual or triple channel 2.4 would be good enough for me, especially as there's usually a layer of concrete between me and my routers.

    Lastly, battery life. Now I know battery life on the iPhone has always been impressive, and the move to a smaller node should emphasize that even more, but why not capitalize as much as possible on this advantage and release the iPhone with 1800+ mAH. Maybe even 2000. Surely it can be done, and it would open a whole new group of customers to Apple: those that want to charge their phones as sparsely as possible. There's plenty demand for it.
    Reply
  • Super56K - Friday, August 31, 2012 - link

    I doubt there's serious demand for crazy battery life in a smartphone. It's become ingrained in us to top off our phones each night to have a full charge for the following day. Some flagship phones already give you 2 days of moderate use. Reply
  • sives - Thursday, August 30, 2012 - link

    Our research at Hoverkey (http://bit.ly/SWQGt7) has thrown up an interesting new twist on the iPhone 5 NFC debate set off by your article. Apple was granted a key patent last year that describes a novel design method for embedding an NFC antenna within a screen display aperture or even in the LCD screen module.

    This means that the iPhone 5 could have a metal unibody case AND a front-facing NFC antenna. Usability-wise this would make a lot of sense. It's much easier (and more intuitive) for a user to place their iPhone 5 against another NFC device front-first, because their hand is holding the device from the back.
    Reply
  • OTD - Friday, August 31, 2012 - link

    I agree with sives and it was a major flaw in the original article to assume that the NFC radio frequency has to be emitted from the back of the phone.

    Apple engineers always try to mimic human actions and behaviors when designing user interface. When you meet your friend, you hug with your friend face-to-face, not back-to-back. Therefore, if you want to send a iTune gift to your friend through the NFC interface, you two 'bump' your phones in a natural face-to-face way.

    The position of the reader is consistent with the one shown in their patent on NFC.

    Some one in Japan pointed out that the component in the "leaked photo" was similar to a RFC reader supplied by Toppan TDK Label:

    http://www.toppan-tl.co.jp/en/sp/nfc.html

    Apple may not use the same reader but the design concept could be similar. The small but thick 1-loop NFC antenna on the front. Then next layer some magnetic shielding material is required to boost up the reading distance. Behind the shielding material will be the NFC RF controller circuit board. The last one is the metallic EMI cover we saw from the photo. The small antenna loop should be able to achieve 2 to 4 cm reading distance for peer-to-peer transactions and card-mode emulation.
    Reply
  • iwod - Thursday, August 30, 2012 - link

    Been going through my head, that A6 or what ever it will be called to only have a die shrink mentioned by Anand. This simply wouldn't make sense as the performance gap will be so wide between its competitors. Apple manages to fit a 110mm2 die size A5 inside 4S, the die shrink version tested with Apple TV is only 63mm2. Surely Apple could use a little more Die Space for performance?

    Having similar, or zero improvement on graphics doesn't make sense either. With 30% more pixel to work with it will essentially be a downgrade rather then upgrade.

    Apple dont use Krait, and QualComm doesn't offer PowerVR based GPU if even Apple liked. I took a few look and research on the web, and it seems very likely Apple will take a similar approach with TI OMAP4470. It uses a standard Cortex A9 as with Apple 's Ax SoC, uses PowerVR 544 which is a little bit more powerful then PowerVR 543 MP2. It also add featues such as CGPU which is like a special GPU for GUI, and reduce the power consumption during normal usage by 10x compare to a normal PowerVR GPU. There is also 2 Cortex M3 Core to help with basic operation like Phone Calls.

    Even if Apple didn't licenses the design to use for their own. or buying the chip directly from TI, a similar approach could be done with a bit more R&D.

    Since TI OMAP4470 is available soon enough, This sounds like a perfect example of what is possible or Apple A6.
    Reply
  • gunblade - Thursday, August 30, 2012 - link

    I have friends working in the SOC team and from what I heard silicon was already back in the lab before the new iPad launched. Given the schedule, 9 months should be enough for them to get most of the validation done. If there is no extra spin needed on the silicon, I think it is highly likely that they will go with Cortex A15 based A6 chip. And according the hearsay, it might be the first Rogue based mass production chip. Reply
  • jlbenton - Tuesday, September 11, 2012 - link

    Reading the section on NFC, I see a few misleading facts presented. An NFC antenna can work when place on a piece of metal. It basically needs a ferrous film attached to the flat flex circuit to reflect the magnetic waves to the antenna and not to be absorbed by the metal shield.

    I have designed a few NFC antennas and found you can get them much smaller than you might think.

    Bluetooth LE would never be used for mobile payments as it is not secure. It's transmit range is much larger than NFC. Someone next to you could easily intercept the signal just standing next to you in the grocery store. QR codes take too long to take a photo of, a step backwards compared to a swipe of a card. If Apple is serious about mobile payments, which I believe they should be due to the potential for profits, then NFC is the only answer.
    Reply

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