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  • dagamer34 - Wednesday, June 20, 2012 - link

    Surprised they haven't allowed more hardware partners like nVidia, TI, and ST-Ericcson yet. Reply
  • Malih - Wednesday, June 20, 2012 - link

    exactly, and especially considering the Surface tablet uses nVidia's Tegra Reply
  • quiksilvr - Wednesday, June 20, 2012 - link

    The source code between Windows Phone 8 and Windows RT/8 may be the same but they are not the same operating systems. Windows RT/8 have a lot more partners. Reply
  • tipoo - Friday, June 22, 2012 - link

    Picking one and optimizing around one SoC is what made WP7 feel so fast on even such relatively old and slow SoCs though, this isn't an entirely bad thing. Now all that optimization remains since they're only on one chip, but the chip is now one of the fastest, so WP8 should be pretty damn fast. Reply
  • usama_ah - Wednesday, June 20, 2012 - link

    maybe because they want everything in one chipset (including LTE) thus NVIDIA's Tegra3 while excellent for Win8 RT, is not yet ready for Win Phone 8? Reply
  • Zink - Wednesday, June 20, 2012 - link

    I think this is best for developers too, only one SOC from each generation to worry about. End users get better optimized software even if they get a phone that is technically not the most powerful. Reply
  • UpSpin - Wednesday, June 20, 2012 - link

    It's a stupid decision, because it favors Qualcomm, thus hinders any competition. Because of Android, and only Android, different SoC manufacturers can battle each other, they are forced to produce new and better products, either CPU or GPU. They try multi-core systems, dual/quad channels, multi-core GPUs, ... they can experiment and innovate, try to be the best.
    So if only WP8 exists we would still only have slow single core processors, because Samsung, TI, nvidia, ... wouldn't develop for it. Only one SoC developer would exist, qualcomm, which does not need to put a lot of money in research, because they have no competition. So end users get the worst.
  • DarkUltra - Wednesday, June 20, 2012 - link

    Exactly. iPhone and Android pushes the anvelope a lot more. However I find my nokia lumia 800 much smoother and responsive than the latest high end android ICS sets I've tried. It is simpler yet very useful with support for onenote, skydrive and office files.

    3rd party apps can be jerky and slow, like Trine i farta and gMaps so I look forward to a faster cpu and gpu.
  • GuniGuGu - Wednesday, June 20, 2012 - link

    Nope competition pushes them all.. And Android being so open has the most drive and competition among them all. Reply
  • UpSpin - Wednesday, June 20, 2012 - link

    i often hear the Office integration as an advantage of WP, especially OneNote. Not as an offense, just as a hint for the future: I got heavily disappointed by the office integration in WP, epecially OneNote. I used OneNote on a tablet PC to ink, sadly, this main usage of OneNote on Windows isn't supported on WP, it isn't able to display ink.
    Ironically, for every OS, except WP, there exists MobileNoter, which syncs with OneNote, and supports displaying, and even editing, ink.
  • Myrandex - Thursday, June 21, 2012 - link

    Really? The iPhone fosters more competition? Since when can you buy an iPhone with a different CPU? Or a different GPU? And don't tell me that just buy the most recent iPhone that it is more powerful then the previous ones...that is exactly what is happening here.

    Android is the only Smartphone player out there that is pushing the CPU / GPU / resource requirements through the roof. iOS and WP try to make do with a stable hardware platform that is designed to eek out every performance bit they can. Plus they set the bar so that you will never have a Windows Phone or an iOS device below a certain level of performance. There is no such thing as an equivalent of the $99 Android tablets that had a slow single core, low amounts of ram, and a resistive touch screen on those platforms.
  • kkwst2 - Friday, June 22, 2012 - link

    I don't get your argument here. I'm not an iPhone fan, but I am sure thankful they're around. They absolutely foster competition. You think Samsung and HTC would be pushing Android devices out with these large, high resolutions, beautiful displays if it weren't for trying to compete for iPhone customers?

    I would never get an iPhone largely because it doesn't have a replaceable battery and that is a deal breaker for me. But I certainly think that the iPhone being around has something to do with me being able to buy my Nexus.
  • PubFiction - Tuesday, July 10, 2012 - link

    Yes because large high rez displays are not something apple makes or invents, they buy it from other companies. In fact apple stifles competition because they contract so that they are the only ones who can get those displays which means that android makers cant buy them. If MS did this same thing with laptops the would be investigated for anti trust violations. Reply
  • Iketh - Wednesday, June 20, 2012 - link

    so how do you think Qualcomm won the exclusivity? you really believe there was no competition there?

    the competition is still there, just in a different format from what you're used to
  • blanarahul - Thursday, June 21, 2012 - link

    Hinders Competition.
    Are you joking?

    In a few months Krait will be losing to Cortex A15. Windows 8 ARM version is going to further intensify the fight. And they are already battling the likes of Tegra 3 and Samsung Exynos on the Android Segment. And they are already losing in the GPU department. Is this lack of competition?

    And don't forget how Qualcomm S3 was thrown out of the non-American markets due to Cortex A9 being more powerful.

    And don't forget Android is still a much much bigger platform that Windows Phone. And to get a proper market share Qualcomm will have to focus on all three markets.

    And I bet that if Windows Phone 8's market share increases substantially Microsoft is gonna allow others as well.
  • blanarahul - Thursday, June 21, 2012 - link

    And tell me one thing more.

    Did the galaxy S ever get a ICS update?

    Did the Galaxy S2 ever get a ICS update?
    Yes. But after more than 6 months of ICS launch.

    Did the first Android devices get Android 2.0 update?

    Every year they have to buy a new fucking Android Phone because the stupid manufacturer just doesn't update there device.

    Whereas most Windows Phone 7 devices got the update to WP7.5 in less than a month.

    All iPhone users who are having iPhone 3GS or above are running the latest version of iOS.

    What use is good hardware if they don't have good software to utilize it?
  • DesktopMan - Thursday, June 21, 2012 - link

    No Windows Phone 7 device will get Windows Phone 8. That's worse than Android, and certainly worse than iOS. Reply
  • blanarahul - Thursday, June 21, 2012 - link

    It's not worse than iOS or Android.
    For eg.
    iPhone 3GS doesn't have siri even though it had iOS 5.
    Devices which were released prior to android 2.0 and got android 2.0 did not get 3d app drawer and Dalvik VM.
  • Alexvrb - Thursday, June 21, 2012 - link

    All original WP7 devices have already have two major updates. They'll probably all get WP 7.8 too, which will bring many relevant parts of WP8 that make sense for the older single core devices. Really this is no worse than Android, and actually is a bit more consistent across different devices/carriers. Reply
  • UpSpin - Thursday, June 21, 2012 - link

    Most phones got the upgrade from Android 2.1 to 2.1 and 2.3. Just as WP7 to WP7.5.
    Many phones get a upgrade from 2.3 to 4.0, not a single phone gets an upgrade from WP7.5 to WP8. (WP7.8 isn't really comparable compared to WP8) So if they buy a flagship WP7.5 phone right now, in half a year they can throw it in the trash, because future apps won't run on it. Great.
  • JohnnyL53 - Thursday, June 21, 2012 - link

    The flagship windows phone is $99. Even cheaper when its on sale. You can buy 3 of these versus one Android flagship phone.
    Window phones got an upgrade from 7.0 up through 7.5 to 7.8. Fairly analogous to your example. an its still cheaper to throw it away and get a new one compared to a similar flagship Android or the iphone.
  • sprockkets - Friday, June 22, 2012 - link

    "Did the galaxy S ever get a ICS update?

    Got it like right after ICS was released, where have you been?

    "Did the first Android devices get Android 2.0 update?

    Uh, no, they got updated to 1.5 and 1.6.

    "Every year they have to buy a new fucking Android Phone because the stupid manufacturer just doesn't update there device."

    I didn't and neither did most others.

    "Whereas most Windows Phone 7 devices got the update to WP7.5 in less than a month."

    So what? That puts them on par with the rest of the world from 3 years ago.

    "All iPhone users who are having iPhone 3GS or above are running the latest version of iOS."

    With none of the new features of it either. The 3GS will run ios6 and not have any turn by turn nav, no 3d maps, no siri and all the enhancements it brings.

    Wow, an updated phone app, that's such a major upgrade.
  • PubFiction - Tuesday, July 10, 2012 - link

    People say it is good but it is failing. I consistently buy android phones because windows phone is always behind hardware wise and limited in choices.

    Open hardware is part of the windows success story this is not. Google is better than microsoft at microsofts game.
  • SomeTechDude - Wednesday, June 20, 2012 - link

    Nokia Windows Phone 8 with dual core SoC by Qualcomm here I come and this is from a day one release Nexus One user for the last couple of years.

    I was holding out for the Nexus "Four" after how disappointed I was with the in store demos of the second and third Nexus phones by Samsung. I have looked at the other Android devices as they were released as well. Looking at the newer single core, dual core, and the fresh hotness that is the quad cores, but no matter how cool and FAST the new android device was on demo in the stores I still found my old friend the ever pervasive "Android Lag". I will admit that on some devices it isn't as bad as on others but it is still there and I have been able to find it on every device I try out in person. Don't get me wrong I still really like using my android phone and it is quite useful but I thought by now the "Android Lag" issue of the interface would have been fixed by now especially on the quad core devices.

    A while ago a family member (not tech savvy at all) of mine had purchased a Nokia Lumia phone with Windows Phone 7.5 on it. I helped him set it up and was impressed with how I didn't notice any UI lag no matter how deep I went into the system and it was very snappy and consistent on a single core SoC. I asked if it would be alright if I "tested" the phone for a few days and he could use mine. After using a Nokia WP7.5 for just a few days it really has opened my eyes, I never thought about getting a WP for myself. Until then I was Android all the way. I can't wait to see how Microsoft has improved the user experience on a dual core Soc for WP8.

    Just my two cents.
  • sheltem - Wednesday, June 20, 2012 - link

    Both Motorola and Sony have stated on the record that optimizing Android for their particular device cocktails is a very most time consuming task. This goes a long way in explaining why existing Android devices take so long to update, if at all. Reply
  • UpSpin - Wednesday, June 20, 2012 - link

    at least they are able to do it. They could be as lazy as a WP device developer and build a Smartphone similar to the Nexus line. Then they don't have to optimze anything.

    But thanks to Android they can integrate different hardware and change the OS to use it, it won't be able with WP8, you still can only use standard hardware like Qualcomm processors, fixed resolution displays, ...

    Do you think device manufacturers could easily add a 3D display to WP8? A different SoC? Propietary hardware?
  • Duraz0rz - Wednesday, June 20, 2012 - link

    They could use a different SoC. Since the kernel is essentially the same between WP8 and W8, manufacturers can write drivers for Tegra 3 for W8 (which they likely will be for the W8 release) and then port those drivers to WP8 if/when the time comes. That's the impression I got from the summit.

    Qualcomm just happens to be the launch partner. Doesn't necessarily mean the system will be locked down again to Qualcomm.
  • UpSpin - Thursday, June 21, 2012 - link

    They can only do what Microsoft allows them to do. Microsoft also could have allowed Exynos, Tegra, ... processors in WP7.5, but they haven't. So I doubt they'll change it with WP8. Reply
  • phoenix_rizzen - Thursday, June 21, 2012 - link

    That's an artificial barriere that they have built themselves.

    A smart OEM would realise that too many options is no better than not enough options.

    Instead of releasing 75 different models every year, each with a different SoC, different amount of RAM, different screen size, different resolution, etc, etc, etc, they should concentrate on a smaller number of form factors with virtually identical innards.

    Personally, I would love it if a smartphone manufacturer came out with 3 screen sizes (~3", ~3.5", ~4+"), with and without hardware keyboards. The SoC, RAM, and storage would be identical, perhaps with CPU/GPU clockspeeds varying. Then they could stop wasting time making umpteen variations, and can concentrate on optimising the software stack.
  • andrewaggb - Wednesday, June 20, 2012 - link

    I don't think that apple has much to worry about yet, but I think android is going to be in for a world of hurt. Reply
  • ImSpartacus - Wednesday, June 20, 2012 - link

    Meh, we said the same thing about 7.5. It's not a bad platform, but it's just not going anywhere. Reply
  • UpSpin - Wednesday, June 20, 2012 - link

    also remember, this devices will get sold by the end of the year. By the end of the year, much better specs are available again, incompatible with WP8 (higher resolution displays, different SoCs which will be faster than the Qualcomm Krait ones, SoCs which are more power efficient (Big.Little), ...) By the end of the year the next Android version will be out, too, which might be a real competitor to Windows 8 at all.

    WP8 is as locked down as iOS. So people who are fine with that (bought an iPhone) are fine with WP8, too. Lots of people (not all) who want more, bought Android devices, and won't switch to a locked down OS like WP8, because there they'll miss tons of features they got used to in Android.
  • bplewis24 - Wednesday, June 20, 2012 - link

    LOL. So the platform that is still growing faster than the 2nd place platform is in a world of hurt, but the 2nd place platform with a business model and platform that more closely resembles WP isn't?

    You keep thinking that.
  • andrewaggb - Thursday, June 21, 2012 - link

    I know it's all speculation... but I'll clarify my stance.

    I haven't been impressed by google/htc/samsung etc's support of android. I also don't think it's as easy to use as ios. I've got 2 android phones right now and upgraded from an android phone before that. I've liked the phones, but I've ended running custom roms on all of them because the manufacturers stopped providing updates within 6 months of purchase. That's on a 3yr contract for phones that cost as much as the iphone. That's an unforgivable fail in my books. Fool me once... fool me twice... My favorite feature of android phones is the google navigation.

    Apple is better about os updates. They update devices for at least a year or two (though sometimes they omit the new stuff just to be lame). They have more apps (and sometimes good ones), like ticket to ride and dominion (much better than androminion), and they have better battery life and the 'it's apple' thing going for them. The AppleTV + airplay combo is well done.

    That said I think iOS looks dated, I think their app store isn't great (the apps are good, but the store itself is meh), app updates are handled much better on android, ditching google maps is a short term mistake, etc. And itunes still kinda sucks. iCloud sounds cool but doesn't do a whole lot.

    WP7.5 was screwed because by the time the lumina's came out, single core, lower screen res, and no upgrade future killed most people's enthusiasm. I've used the n900 (it's nice) but I don't want another phone that's unsupported 6 months into a contract. That is BS.

    I'm not happy with any of the current mobile offerings. WP8 has potential. Dual core krait won't totally suck in a few months, 720p on a phone is still pretty decent, and the software + nokia drive has potential. Sure it might suck, but it's all speculation at this point anyways. And if WP8 sucks, well I'll probably get a galaxy s3 or whatever samsungs mainstream offering is (nice phone that's also likely to get support)
  • MrSpadge - Thursday, June 21, 2012 - link

    Dual core Krait - this sounds just what the doctor ordered! 2 fast cores are much better for most phone-related tasks than 4 slower cores. Reply
  • DesktopMan - Thursday, June 21, 2012 - link

    Agreed. They just need to upgrade their GPU, but I don't think that's far off. Too late for Windows Phone 8 though. Reply
  • tipoo - Friday, June 22, 2012 - link

    Yeah, I'm actually excited, WP7.5 FELT fast on even an older gen single core because they optimized the OS around just one SoC, now they are doing that except with one of the fastest chips out there, so it should be good. Reply
  • Godofmosquitos - Thursday, June 21, 2012 - link

    As far as I know, there's a shortage of Qualcomm's Krait chips. ASUS can't get their Infinity Pad 3G out the door for this reason, etc. So let's hope Qualcomm are up for delivering a ton of chips, then ^^ Reply
  • Braumin - Thursday, June 21, 2012 - link

    Just because they are the hardware partner for launch DOES NOT MEAN they are exclusive to WP8 in the future. In fact, the entire point behind moving to the NT kernel was to allow some more freedom.

    The obvious reason they are the hardware launch SoC is because they have the best SoC out there right now, and it includes things like LTE and WiFI in the SoC!

    Tegra 3 is in the Surface Tablet because it doesn't need LTE.

    This is the exact same reason why the Qualcomm is in every single other North American high end smartphone right now.

    HTC One X - NA version - Krait
    Samsung GSIII - NA version - Krait
    Windows Phone 8 - Krait

    Why is everyone reading more into this than the obvious answer?
  • a5cent - Tuesday, June 26, 2012 - link

    More freedom in hardware was definitely NOT the reason for moving to the NT kernel. Quite the opposite is actually. Microsoft views WP as a standardized platform, meaning hardware, software and the app ecosystem.

    WP7 hardware specs have not remained exactly the same over the years, but all of those changes were hidden (to a very large degree) from developers, meaning hardware and software fragmentation was avoided. Microsoft plans to stick with this model. It will not be enforced as strictly as with consoles (which are based on the same model), but hardware variability will be restricted to a minimum. OEM's are free to innovate in the areas of peripheral hardware (cameras, display types, enclosures, radios, etc), but the core hardware (CPU & GPU) will remain largely the same until we reach WP9 - just as it has with WP7.

    The main reason for moving to the NT kernel is enabling/simplifying software portability (full and complete W8 .NET run time, native apps, Microsoft security products like bit locker etc). Hardware variability/flexibility (also known as fragmentation) is not part of the plan.
  • minhasbabu - Saturday, June 23, 2012 - link

    I love my Win7 phone and will probably still update to the cool looking Nokia 900 Win7 anyways. Reply
  • Visual - Tuesday, June 26, 2012 - link

    So, it is the same as the Galaxy S III?
    I wonder if it will be hacked to dualboot Android too, or if the SGS3 will be hacked to boot Windows...
  • SunLord - Tuesday, June 26, 2012 - link

    Even if all the WP8 phones use Snapdragon S4 SoC the initial ones will be using the same basic and powerful chip as a GS3 or One X and will probably be priced at $150 on contract at launch this leaves room for a halo device or refresh running the upcoming S4 with the upgraded Andreno 320 gpu at $199.

    I'm also not surprised they used Tegra to show off Windows RT given the quad core Krait SoC won't even ship till the end of this year making it unavailable to Windows Rt/8 launch
  • Laststop311 - Tuesday, June 26, 2012 - link

    This is actually a good thing. WP8 will more easily be optimized to run nice and smooth and the a15 cores are actually the most advanced and qualcomm will be moving to quad core a15 and adreno 3xx next gen gpu in 2013 so this manufacture will be in the top for performance. Reply

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