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  • stimpack99 - Wednesday, February 22, 2012 - link

    ... are currently poorly designed by most manufacturers, even logitechs new ambidextrous mouse sucks. The button placement is all wrong.

    I swear the people designing these things aren't gamers. I'd really like a good dpad on the side of the mouse below the "web browser" forward/backward buttons. Either that or scrap the browser buttons entirely and put good quality gamepad like buttons on it oriented like you would have on a gamepad. It drives me insane that so-called gaming mice are just marketing labels for crappy mice.
  • cigar3tte - Wednesday, February 22, 2012 - link

    I can't understand why all the mice have the thumb buttons laid out horizontally. Vertical buttons seems so much easier to hit both. Reply
  • moriz - Wednesday, February 22, 2012 - link

    the idea with the horizontal placement is that you place your thumb over both, and rock back and forth on the second joint to press the buttons. this is way faster than repositioning your entire thumb up and down. Reply
  • Omega215D - Wednesday, February 22, 2012 - link

    The MS Sidewinder line of mice had the vertical thumb button placement (save the X3 which has one on each side as it's ambi). They were pretty unique and the buttons functioned well. Their designs were ok but I would rather have the Logitech MX518/ G400 or CM Storm Spawn/ Xornet style bodies.

    MS should make a new Sidewinder mouse that's like the IME with 2 vertical thumb buttons or 3 horizontal thumb buttons (like Logitech's G500 as I'm always in need of a 3rd thumb button).
  • realjetavenger - Thursday, February 23, 2012 - link

    I agree that verticle placement of the thumb buttons makes more sense. But on the sidewinder mice I found the bottom thumb button placed too low. I always had a problem hitting that button since my thumb would be hitting the desktop moreso than the button itself and it just wasn't comfortable, for me. But this is another great example of how personal the feel of any mouse is. Again, love the idea of verticle placement, but in this case it just didn't fit my hand very well. Reply
  • mclazer - Wednesday, February 22, 2012 - link

    You are a perfect example to highlight the truth of the first paragraph of the article.

    Sounds like you are not satisfied with the feel/button placement of any gaming mice and are attributing it to cheapness/marketing labels.

    I can empathize however. Since you never know if you will like a mouse until you have it in your hands it almost forces you to buy a whole crap ton of mice to get the one you want. I'm pretty picky also and went through almost 20 mice until I found the Roccat Kova+.. thats the one for me :D
  • - Thursday, February 23, 2012 - link

    Exactly! My God, have I gone through a crap-ton of mice!!! I still haven't found one that feels like the perfect fit. I wanted to love the cyborg mice as they look fantastic but, so far they leave a lot to be desired, same for razer, same for most logitech's - I'm using the m705 marathon currently - not a great gaming mouse but, not too bad - but, it's pretty comfortable as far as grip and long use time.
    The M60 here looks pretty good, hoping to get my hands on one soon!
  • Sabresiberian - Wednesday, February 22, 2012 - link

    One of the "problems" with mice with a lot of buttons is that you have to be willing to figure out how to use them for your app(s) and then spend time adapting to the mouse. No matter how well the buttons are placed (and some of them aren't placed well at all on every one I've seen) you are just going to have to learn how to use it right - especially for gaming when you have to do things fast without thinking about it.

    It's pretty much like learning how to type again - well, simpler than that, but that kind of thing. Before you buy one you should consider whether or not you have the aptitude to go through all that. I think it's worth it in the end, but it isn't an instant-gratification thing.

  • ckryan - Wednesday, February 22, 2012 - link

    The Logitech MX1100 is more my speed, which is unfortunate, since they've not made that mouse for some time. Reply
  • Impulses - Wednesday, February 22, 2012 - link

    Same here, I'm hoping mine holds up for a few more years since I haven't found a siecle wireless replacement. I was intrigued by the R.A.T. for a while but kept hearing about too many QC issues. Reply
  • Impulses - Wednesday, February 22, 2012 - link

    Suitable replacement... Damn swype. ;) Reply
  • Th-z - Wednesday, February 22, 2012 - link

    Similar with discontinued MX Revolution. To me its mouse wheel is the best for quickly scrolling long document/web page. They have made mice with hyper scrolling since, but they all require a switch, not the auto-shifting MX Revolution uses. What a shame. Reply
  • ckryan - Wednesday, February 22, 2012 - link

    I find that I leave hyperscrolling on all the time. The situations where I don't want to use it are quite rare. Reply
  • bji - Wednesday, February 22, 2012 - link

    Keyboards are just as much a matter of preference as are mice. There is no inherent superiority to mechanical switches when compared to other types of keyboards, it is entirely a matter of preference. Reply
  • mclazer - Wednesday, February 22, 2012 - link

    I've never heard of anyone who prefers the membrane over mechanical keys... I'm sure they exist but I think the majority of gamers/heavy keyboard users prefer mechanical.

    Either way, you can look at a keyboard's feature list and get a pretty accurate gauge on whether you would like that keyboard or not. Whether it has mechanical keys, ergonomical, wrist rests, lighted keys, macro buttons for gamers, whatever. If it has the stats you want, your probably going to like it.

    With a mouse it's a lot more subjective. On paper two mice could be exactly the same down to the sensor, but you don't know which one feels "right" until you use it.
  • kyuu - Wednesday, February 22, 2012 - link

    Totally agree. Many people (myself included) don't like the long-travel, noise, and overly "clicky" feel of mechanical switches. I much prefer my Logitech keyboard with rubber-dome switches.

    Just because you prefer them does not make them objectively better, Mr. Sklavos.
  • exploderator - Wednesday, February 22, 2012 - link

    Scroll wheel : does it free wheel or does it ratchet?

    I have looked high and low, and yet have never found an answer to this critical question. Corsair hints about it being heavy, but still fails to say whether it can/does free-wheel.

    This particular issue is a show stopper for me, and is the one reason why I can only use Logitech mice so far (eyeballing the G700 as a step up from my MX Revolution, more buttons is good). I cannot grind a ratchet all day with my middle finger when zooming in and out in CAD software. My seriously worn out MX (several years later) has saved me from suffering a repetitive stress injury that was just starting to happen when I bought it (one of the best $100 I have ever spent on computer hardware BTW).

    I suppose I could probably butcher the ratchet mechanism out of one of these mice, depending on how it's implemented (ie not buried inside a tiny sealed rotary encoder), but it's a $70 gamble I would rather not take. And I admit that it's nice to be able to put my MX in clickety mode when playing FPS where it does your weapon selection, free wheel is a tad wild and unpredictable for that. To lose both the wireless and freewheel... that would be a $70 paper weight in my books. With bad drivers.
  • Revdarian - Wednesday, February 22, 2012 - link

    From experience, most new scroll wheels feel extremely hard and do cause discomfort. But after 1-2 months of regular use they become pretty normal. It also annoys me that it is that way but at least now i try to artificially wear it down until it becomes soft enough to be comfortable. Reply
  • exploderator - Wednesday, February 22, 2012 - link

    Unfortunately, no amount of wear-down can compensate for my requirement of a fully free-wheeling scroll wheel.

    The gesture is this: you give the wheel ONE very light flick in the intended direction, leaving your middle finger OFF the wheel, and touching back down to stop the free spin when the desired travel has been achieved. ONE FLICK vs. grind grind grind... it's a make or break difference. It's also the kind of gesture that is almost immediately fully automatic and intuitive, there is almost no learning curve, and it works immaculately well. It's one of those perfect natural solutions that our brains already understand. Expensive analog radio tuner dials used the same principle (albeit in a much less critical application). Good track balls do the same. There is no substitute.
  • Death666Angel - Wednesday, February 22, 2012 - link

    This doesn't make a lot of sense for gaming mice, considering that we gamers need distinct mouse wheel levels for weapon selection and the like.

    What you describe sounds like what the click middle mouse button/mouse wheel is for. Click it once to get a stead scrolling going, click it again to halt that scrolling.
  • Stuka87 - Wednesday, February 22, 2012 - link

    Many productivity mice (I have an MK710 on my work machine, the keyboard sucks, but the mouse is decent) has a button that allows you to select clicky feel, or free spin. The free spin is very handy for scrolling down large pages. But I prefer the ratchet many times as well.

    For gaming though (which these are designed for) it has to be able to have distinct movement for selecting weapons/items..
  • madgabz - Thursday, February 23, 2012 - link

    Get a Apple Mighty Mouse!!!! The new one with 'touchpad' instead of scroll wheel! U can do amazing scrolls both horizontally and vertically! - with a flick! Personally, its too sensitive as in too fast, but it sounds a lot more like what you want. Now, back to this threads origin: Gaming mice! Reply
  • LeftSide - Wednesday, February 22, 2012 - link

    I used to have a MX Revolution and loved it. After it finally died (it lasted forever) I had to replace it. I went with the G500. It has a button that alowes you to switch between ratchet and freewheel. It also has 2 buttons to let you switch DPI on the fly. I use photoshop and have found that swiching DPI for the more refined movements increase productivity.

    I didn't realize how much lag the MX Revolution actually had until I bought the g500. It makes such a huge difference to have a wired mouse. I have started playing FPS games again (and doing well I might add).

    I do miss the extra rocker thumb button, but everything else makes up for it.
  • exploderator - Thursday, February 23, 2012 - link

    G700, looks like the answer. Reply
  • Coup27 - Friday, February 24, 2012 - link

    I'm the same. I had and loved a Logitech G9 which showed signs of dying so I replaced it with a G9X. I have an MX Revolution at work and I'm thinking about getting another G9X because the lag is just doing me in. Reply
  • realjetavenger - Thursday, February 23, 2012 - link

    On the M60 it is only ratchet. Don't know about the M90 but would suspect it's the same. Reply
  • exploderator - Friday, February 24, 2012 - link

    Thank you, I can move on now. Logitech G700 it is then. Too bad, all those buttons on the M90 were very sexy looking for CAD work. But no freewheel and no wireless adds up to no deal for me.
  • Stuka87 - Wednesday, February 22, 2012 - link

    Finding a mouse that is just right can be so difficult. Especially if you don't live near a large computer store that has many on display.

    I have large hands, with especially long fingers. Its very hard to find a mouse that will make contact with the palm of my hand, or even the upper palm/knuckle area. The fact that these are a bit larger, may mean they are worthwhile for me to try and test.
  • Brakner - Thursday, February 23, 2012 - link

    I have the same issue as you so I settled on the SteelSeries Cataclysm MMO mouse. I really like the thumb button placement.
  • Azethoth - Wednesday, February 22, 2012 - link

    After 4 years of searching across all the multi-button mice out there this is the first one that worked for my hand size. It is also adjustable and so covers a larger spread of hand sizes.

    The extra buttons are actually accurately pressable without getting carpal thumb.
  • Azethoth - Wednesday, February 22, 2012 - link

    Oh yeah, and full disclaimer: I use RAT 7 MMO mouse + Vengeance K90 keyboard. They are no longer for actual MMO use though, I use the extra buttons for programming. Reply
  • Watwatwat - Thursday, February 23, 2012 - link

    I find the best solution is logitechs g9/g9x with the auto profile switching sofware
    The mouse only has a few buttons, but the software makes the most of it, you do have to associate each profile with the executable, but most nerds probably can handle that. The main thing for thumb buttons is reachability in games, it has to be right there, not a reach or it becomes useless for quick access. There are also more buttons than you expect once you find out you can bind the wheel tilt to whatever you like as well, some wheels don't have feedback on tilt or are loose, the g9 series have a subtle click so its still useful in games.

    The r.a.t. looked interesting, but the main thing other mice lack is the speed scrolling wheel of the logitech...hard to go back to other mice once spoiled. I have several wireless but yes like the revolution they aren't as smooth, the performance mx is the best of the lot but its clearly not for gaming, the thumb buttons are a big reach away as they jut out over your thumb...
  • Shinobi_III - Thursday, February 23, 2012 - link

    Oh look! It's an Logitech G9! Reply
  • realjetavenger - Thursday, February 23, 2012 - link

    "There's also the placement of the "Sniper" button. On the M60, for my hands and the way I grip the mouse, it's just too far up the left side. The button needed to be lower to be under where my thumb usually rests."

    Totally agree. Have been using the M60 or a few weeks now. Generally really like the performance of the mouse and the size fits my hand well. But find that the placement of the sniper button is just a litle too far forward. And as stated in the article it should be placed to fall under the thumb instead of having to move your thumb forward to use it. For me to hit it correctly, I have to cock my hand sideways a little to get my thumb forward enough to hold the button. This is self defeating as it now makes it more difficult to be precise with the mouse movement which is the whole point of the sniper button in the first place.
  • Whiskey Mike - Thursday, February 23, 2012 - link

    I use, and am happy with, a Razer Naga (Molten). Lots of buttons (16 at quick count) some well placed, some not so much. I only use the ones that feel natural / are well-positioned. If macroing, you could use more. Decent software for mapping the mouse keys. I use it with a couple of different MMO's/games. I also use the Razer eXactMat, which is metal, two sided (control/speed), helps a lot. Downside is I have to clean the sensor window once a day, a blow off. I would buy it again were this one to fail.

    Keyboard used is the Zboard Merc Stealth now sold by Steelseries. KB feel is okay, used it daily for maybe 4 (?) years now. The main attractions are the backlit keys (variable intensity and 3 colors) and the dedicated gaming-oriented integrated pad located to the left of the main keyboard which adds roughly 30 keys, very nicely arranged so that the left hand can easily span all of the keys; natural, quick, well placed for me. All are programmable, and are amenable to function shifts. I like this keyboard. I use two, and have bought a spare. KB downside is it is big, really big. Another downside is the right keypad area is poorly laid out.
  • Sulik2 - Thursday, February 23, 2012 - link

    I rest my thumb at the bottom of the mouse on the left and I have never found a mouse puts the buttons at the bottom. I always have to raise my thumb which never feels natural. Are there any gaming mice that put the thumb buttons at the bottom of the left side of the mouse? Reply
  • kevith - Thursday, February 23, 2012 - link

    I think grip-wise you can divide mice in two categories. Palm-grip mice, designed for resting your whole hand on the mouse, and claw-grip mice, where you rotate the mouse inside your palm with only the fingertips resting on the surface of the mouse.

    Mobile mice almost always fall in the latter category, given the need for small size. That´s my preference in mice, since my hands are wide with short fingers.

    Would it be possible to divide reviewed mice into one of these categories from the start?

    As a lot of the comments here, quite truly, state, that it´s almost impossible to know if a mouse is the right one for you, without actually holding it in your hand. But a division of particular mice like that might give a slightly better hint.
  • jadawgis732 - Thursday, February 23, 2012 - link

    I'm surprised to see this statement on Anandtech: "For basic browsing and productivity tasks, there's still really no substitute for a wired mouse." I thought it was proven not to make a discernible difference. I always defer to AT's general knowledge of all things tech, but in this case I think you may be disseminating false information. Reply
  • Sufo - Sunday, February 26, 2012 - link

    I was a longtime g5 user - imo it was the pinnacle of understated yet powerful gaming mice. Sadly it started to die on me and it's basically impossible to replace them these days. The g500 was not an option as I don't want a free wheel, or a wheel capable of free wheeling (the click, when enabled, is not nice).

    I thought nothing would be able to replace my g5 but in the end i settled on the m60 and I must say it's great. Build quality is excellent. The pads are even smoother than my g5, and the weight of the mouse (at its maximum) is adequate. m1/2 press is lighter than the g5, but crisp and distinct (maybe not appropriate for those that rest heavily on the mouse). The wheel click is muted but solid. I was unsure of it at first but i've come to enjoy it. I do not use the sniper button - as mentioned in this article it's poorly placed, and its benefits aren't all that useful to me at this stage anyway (if i could reassign it i might use it, but sadly this is impossible). the thumb buttons are ok - a bit springy tho, and they could have taken a leaf out of logitech's book in terms of positioning. I find it to be the right size, and the fact that the back falls away a bit results in plenty of room for me to pivot from the table.

    Overall I'm happy with my purchase.
  • Vril - Sunday, March 11, 2012 - link

    the problem with these is that they use a 2009 laser: Avago ADNS 9500
    it`s like using an older engine on a new car...

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