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  • Arnulf - Thursday, February 02, 2012 - link

    Offtopic: Flood of AMD news for supposedly "pro-Intel" website ;)

    Ontopic: why 40 nm in timeframe when everybody and their dog is coming out with 28 nm product for the mobile market ?
    Reply
  • SilentSin - Thursday, February 02, 2012 - link

    "why 40 nm in timeframe when everybody and their dog is coming out with 28 nm product for the mobile market ?"

    You answered yourself :) Lots of room at the foundry for 40nm wafer starts and they should be cheaper than 28nm which gives AMD the potential for better margins. Whatever grip Intel held in the netbook/nettop market is going to shrink even further in 2012.
    Reply
  • fic2 - Thursday, February 02, 2012 - link

    I agree with the OP. 40nm is a bigger, more expensive, more power hungry cpu. Really doesn't make much sense. Reply
  • SilentSin - Thursday, February 02, 2012 - link

    Bigger sure. More power hungry maybe. More expensive? Debatable. There's also another variable and that is volume, which AMD wants way more of. OEMs are eating Brazos up like candy and the impending Win8 tablet flood is within sight. They want as many as they can get without having to muscle for room at 28nm.

    You also have to include design costs into the 28nm transition. They have a 40nm design that works well enough and generally nodes only get cheaper over time whereas the smaller and newest process commands a price premium. You'd have to think the 40nm LP process is pretty mature at this point otherwise they wouldn't be able to take the same design down from 9W to 4.5W.
    Reply
  • duploxxx - Friday, February 03, 2012 - link

    another reason: maturing. a 40nm mature platform can produce lower power silicon then initial 28nm and they are producing right now, just like trinity. There is no time to wait more for the large 28nm mature production. Reply
  • Ammaross - Friday, February 03, 2012 - link

    The big reason: pennies. Sure, 40nm means more sq mm for the die, but it's etched on sand (read: cheap stuff). With everyone moving to 28nm, no one wants 40nm, which means discount rates before they have to junk the 40nm fab equipment. It's a very smart move, and really the only move AMD can make at this point to remain price-competative with Intel. Reply
  • JarredWalton - Thursday, February 02, 2012 - link

    As to the other part, it's AMD's Financial Analyst Day, so Anand is there and covering all the news. Anyway, this is actually one of the more interesting pieces today IMO -- a lot of the stuff just doesn't matter much to me, but then I'm not interested in AMD except as a provider of useful tech. ARM in the datacenter? Sure fine whatever... tell me about the next CPU and GPU instead. :-) Reply
  • Beenthere - Thursday, February 02, 2012 - link

    While I am not a fan of toy tablets, many sheep buy these so if AMD can sell to these to OEMs at a profit, great. I am however very interested in a Trinity powered laptop as are many other folks so I think AMD will do very well with Trinity.

    The slides show exactly what I have been saying for months - AMD will cover all the market segments with APUs except highend discrete CPU/GPU and some server apps. This is a Win-Win for AMD and consumers as APUs offer a better performance/value/power consumption proposition than anything but the highest discrete CPU/GPU combo which offer performance but at a price.

    As far as the question on 40nm vs. 28nm it really does not matter if the power is low and the performance acceptable. TSMC and GloFo both need to ramp 28nm processes.
    Reply
  • fic2 - Thursday, February 02, 2012 - link

    40nm vs 28nm matters in both power and price. Price since a lot more 28nm die can be cut from the same size wafer. Reply
  • Ammaross - Friday, February 03, 2012 - link

    "Price since a lot more 28nm die can be cut from the same size wafer."

    You may get higher yield, but at a much higher fab price. The price of chip wafers pale in comparison to the cost of running it through a 28nm process. Remember, AMD has stat monkies with real numbers at their fingertips. They've already crunched the costs into more charts than you can shake a stick at.
    Reply
  • rrohbeck - Friday, February 03, 2012 - link

    >a lot more 28nm die can be cut from the same size wafer.
    ... if your process is mature. Bulldozer showed that it isn't. You don't want high leakage/low yield CPUs in a low power/high volume environment.
    Reply
  • silverblue - Saturday, February 04, 2012 - link

    Bulldozer was on GF's first gen 32nm HKMG process. Piledriver will be on their second. Additionally, Hondo will be on a very mature 40nm TSMC process, so you can bet that it's an improvement over Brazos in some way. Reply
  • tonyn84 - Thursday, February 02, 2012 - link

    I would really like to see this kind of chip in a Transformer-style dockable tablet for Win8. ARM version defeats the purpose for me, I want to be able to have my current desktop programs installed, not have to buy them again. Reply
  • hasu - Thursday, February 02, 2012 - link

    I still like AMD and most of my machines are AMD. But AMD is not a good company to invest. For some reason, the news they release does not jive with the stock price trend. No wonder why their beta is high. Reply
  • Impulses - Thursday, February 02, 2012 - link

    AMD should have shifted their focus like this five years ago... It's not exactly a recent revelation to anyone that most PCs reached a "fast enough" stage for most users years ago (hence netbooks) and that mobile devices have been outselling desktops for years. Reply
  • Ammaross - Friday, February 03, 2012 - link

    "AMD should have shifted their focus like this five years ago..."

    Why do you think they ousted their last CEO?

    I agree though, most people are happy with the performance level of a PhenomII-class chip. AMD is targeting the mainstream, which means Bulldozer is more than enough power for them to work with. Now they're just spreading it far and wide, on a cheap-to-make 40nm mature process. They've got the best on-die GPU available, which means power savings or at least grabbing the bottom half of the mobile (laptop) gaming community. I specifically by AMD-based laptops simply because an Intel GMA (even SNB on-die ones to an extent) can't compete with the Radeon chips that go into some low-price AMD laptops.
    Reply
  • Duwelon - Thursday, February 02, 2012 - link

    Peg, now, this is the first three-day weekend I've had in a year. It's not like I'm gonna have a good time - you and the kids are gonna be there. But not the Wanker wagon from Milwaukee, Peg! Please, not that. "Hondo" is gonna be on this weekend. Now, that's some of the Duke's best work. It's never on TV. I've got a blank tape already. I wanna watch "Hondo", Peg. I want a clean tape of "Hondo". Reply
  • iwod - Thursday, February 02, 2012 - link

    They could design a Bobcat for NAS where the market is growing. Even Intel is moving their Atom line over to NAS. Reply
  • duploxxx - Friday, February 03, 2012 - link

    oem could very easy already adopt brazos (zacate) for NAS, it's just typical oem that drive the intel all over the place engine..... Reply
  • Prosthetic Head - Friday, February 03, 2012 - link

    I did a quick search and found some bobcat based NAS designs.

    When I eventually upgrade my DIY nas box (currently VIA Nano powered) a fanless bobcat board looks like an attractive option.
    Reply
  • Visual - Friday, February 03, 2012 - link

    Why are they trying to cripple tablets more than they have to?

    My HP tm2 uses a 10W TDP CULV, and I don't believe that figure includes the chipset. It easily lasts me a whole day, or a few hours when playing games with the switchable GPU.
    While I would appreciate a lighter alternative than its 2kg, I think designing it as a tablet instead of convertible would save enough weight and further compromises with performance should not be necessery. Going as low as 2W seems pointless to me, it enters the realm of useless 7-inch toys that can not get anything done anyway.

    Well, I'm not saying AMD should not develop this, for the sheeple that want a tablet just for the sake of having it without doing anything on it anyway. But I would also appreciate if they got a more powerful tablet out for me. Maybe Trinity?
    Reply
  • frozentundra123456 - Friday, February 03, 2012 - link

    I just bought a tablet, and it is great for checking e-mail but that is about all I can use it for. But I got an Acer A100 open box for 200.00 and am very happy with it for the price. When you get up into the 500.00 range though, I am not sure they are worth it.

    I do like some aspects of the touch interface, somewhat to my surprise. Maybe if win8 can get a touch interface that will take place of the mouse and still have a keyboard and real windows apps it will be the best of both worlds. No matter how nice an ultralight laptop is, it kind of defeats the purpose if you have to carry around a mouse, and I have yet found a touchpad that I like to use.
    Reply
  • KoolAidMan1 - Sunday, February 05, 2012 - link

    Apps targeted for the device is the most important thing. "Real" Windows apps mean nothing currently in tablets since they are designed for a mouse and keyboard, unlike productivity apps made for iOS which are made specifically for a 10" touchscreen. Reply
  • Visual - Monday, February 06, 2012 - link

    Spoken like a true never-used-a-tablet person.
    An active digitizer really lets you use 99% of windows apps as if you had a mouse. The only ones that do not work well are ones that use mouse for panning, i.e. where it keeps the mouse cursor in place and moves the viewpoint or something else. They sometimes kinda freak out when the "mouse cursor" (stylus) still manages to move despide their code to keep it locked.
    Reply
  • MadMinstrel - Monday, February 06, 2012 - link

    Interesting. While I've never had a Windows Tablet PC, I have used a Wacom tablet for years and I've never come across this situation. Reply
  • RU482 - Sunday, February 05, 2012 - link

    Are the 4.5W and sub-2W x86 parts? or ARM? Reply

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